2012 NBA Draft - Part II

Post #81 » by **Zonkerbl** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:40 pm

So stretching Lewis contract out actually only makes sense if you need more cash in 2012 to sign somebody. If you want to preserve your cap flexibility just let his contract expire.

Post #82 » by **Zonkerbl** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:46 pm

Oh wait... applies only to contracts signed under 2011 CBA? Hm, maybe it's not an option then.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #83 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:15 pm

tontoz wrote:
dobrojim wrote:def would NOT trade our #1 for Harden

he's a good player but is he better than Barnes or MKG will
be after a year? I doubt it.

Historically people tend to overrate guys before they are drafted. There is a very good chance that one or both of those two won't be as good as harden.

I would guess that the majority of guys picked 2-5 havent been as productive as Harden.

+1

Dat2U · Post #84 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:42 pm

I think we tend to overrate other teams players. Harden is a 3rd option on a very good team. An excellent 3rd option, but a 3rd option nonetheless. He's a very good player but not an elite one.

And one of the biggest benefits of the draft, is the rookie contract scale. Harden will soon be on the verge of free agency. It's not just trading a pick for Harden, it's trading a pick for the right to pay Harden like a star.

It just doesn't make good business sense to put all of our eggs in the Harden basket. Again, I like the guy, but the cost is just too prohibitive and would limit our ability to fill holes elsewhere.

dobrojim · Post #85 » by **dobrojim** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:13 pm

I think we tend to overrate other teams players.

Context is everything. Harden looks quite good on OKC. No question
he is a pretty good player. That said, he was a 3rd pick in a draft
not as good as this one (according to the 'experts'). Let me revise
what I said in this way, by the time they get to Harden's age now,
I think there is a pretty good chance either HB or MKG will be
better, possibly both.

WizarDynasty · Post #86 » by **WizarDynasty** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:25 pm

i would trade a second to OKC, no more or just wait til free agency and offer a nice contract. He is a starter in this league.

The Consiglieri · Post #87 » by **The Consiglieri** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:27 pm

rl25g wrote:
mhd wrote:Here's a thought, unless we get the #1 pick, would you trade Blatche+the pick for Harden (conditioned on Harden accepting an extension)? OKC saves money on the Harden extension, try and rehab Blatche, and likely get a really good wing like Barnes, Beal, or MKG.

I would much rather try and trade our 2013 pick

E.g. Vesley, Crawford, Unprotected 2013 1st for Harden

No. I like Harden, but he's in an absolutely perfect situation in OKC. It would be anything but that in D.C. I'd rather keep the pick and try to sign a decent free agent as a stop gap or piece (especially if we end up landing a high enough lottery pick to make the team look like less of a HAZ MAT disaster to free agents in July.

Keep the picks, and just keep building. This is a nice draft, especially now with all players potentially "in". Just keep building the darn thing, and jettison the bad pieces this summer (amnesty the cancer baltche, and kick NY to the curb, I really do think having a team that's Wall's, and Booker's will do wonders for McGee, no more selfish idiots for him to emulate), try and sign a decent piece, and then continue the work in '13. This team is basically an impact crater from an epic meteor strike right now, it needs time, not quick fixes, and short cuts. The best things to do this summer in my view are cleaning out the bad apples, getting good glue guys and potentially a piece in FA if thats possible, and adding some talent via the draft.

The Consiglieri · Post #88 » by **The Consiglieri** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:15 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:calling blatche a team cancer is lil dubious. the problem with blatche is that he just isn't that talented but wants to be something that is beyond his reach.
Blatche is a decent 6th man coming off the bench for most teams but he wants to be treated like a top tier powerforward.
His contract is very reasonable for 6th man powerforward. I think people on this board can't functionally normally without having a villain to act each day.

the problem with the wizards is that we finally have a core of players to develop in the future with but now we need actual starters. Its hard to acquire high quality starters when you don't have anything to offer so we have to wait each year for the next 3 years and add one starter each year.

Blatche was a second round pick that lived way above his potential and is a decent big coming off the bench. Just leave it at that.

That is the problem. Blatche wants to be treated like a top power forward. Add to that, there's no obviously better PF on the team to make Blatche accept being the sixth man. I called him a cancer, but that isn't really right. He has had some bad play and a few bad incidents in the past.

The younger guys are IMO better off without Andray.

There's not a mediot anywhere who doesn't consider the guy a world class epic cancer, not sure how much is about him doing his absolute career best to minimize his potential, or about his mental make up or all of it, but I have no problem considering him a cancer considering all the smoke. There's 100x the negative smoke as positive. I don't think it's just what he wants. I think it's what he does, and what he says, and how he acts as well.

hands11 · Post #89 » by **hands11** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:14 am

Beside Dray not understanding what being in shape is, I really don't have a problem with him. He has made strides in his general maturity but that was easy given here he started. Problem is, being in shape is everything in this league. The kid has talent. He just doesn't get to show it because he has Neck Fat.

Ed Wood · Post #90 » by **Ed Wood** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:42 am

I dunno, the fact that over 60% of his shots (based on the 2010/2011 season because of sample size issues for the current season) are jumpers and he shoots an eFG% of about 31% on those shots is sort of a thing to take issue with. I don't see how you wouldn't take umbrage at that shot selection unless you were prepared to grant that it's entirely a result of being too fat.

Anyway, in the spirit of objective evaluation let's all come on down for a round of:

Draft or No Draft

The post in which I post an anonymous bio of a prospect in this upcoming draft and you, whoever makes a post, decides whether to draft or not to draft said prospect, hopefully without ever knowing who it is you are evaluating. Let's start off with an easy one:

This prospect currently plays power forward.

He is a top twenty player in college basketball by the following metrics:

His most outstanding specific skills are as follows:

So I ask you, based on these accomplishments? Draft or No Draft?

Severn Hoos · Post #91 » by **Severn Hoos** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:27 am

Ed Wood wrote:Anyway, in the spirit of objective evaluation let's all come on down for a round of:

Draft or No Draft

The post in which I post an anonymous bio of a prospect in this upcoming draft and you, whoever makes a post, decides whether to draft or not to draft said prospect, hopefully without ever knowing who it is you are evaluating. Let's start off with an easy one:

This prospect currently plays power forward.

He is a top twenty player in college basketball by the following metrics:
- PER
- Total Efficiency
- Efficiency per 40 minutes
- Win shares per 40 minutes

His most outstanding specific skills are as follows:
- Top twenty in free throws drawn per FG attempt
- A TS% of over 60.
- 11th overall in the NCAA in steal percentage
- A top twenty player in rebounds per game
- 4th (!) in the NCAA in rebound percentage and defensive rebound percentage
- A decent passer for a big man: assist rate of 25.7

So I ask you, based on these accomplishments? Draft or No Draft?

Ed, I'd have two main questions:

1. What year is he? (Freshman, Senior - makes a difference)
2. What Conference does he play in? (In order to preserve anonymity, how about a simple - Power 6 or not?)

In theory, yes - I'd be interested in this type of player. Note, I didn't ask about measurements, because production is more important to me. But level of competition is very important. Putting up those numbers in the MEAC is one thing, doing it in the Big 12 (or is that Big 10?) is another. Lots of guys put up eye-popping numbers for VMI or IUPUI but never get a sniff of the NBA.

So, to oversimplify, Fresh/Soph in a Power conference - yes, very interested.
Any other combination - eh, maybe a 2nd round flier.

Dat2U · Post #92 » by **Dat2U** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:34 am

Ed Wood wrote:I dunno, the fact that over 60% of his shots (based on the 2010/2011 season because of sample size issues for the current season) are jumpers and he shoots an eFG% of about 31% on those shots is sort of a thing to take issue with. I don't see how you wouldn't take umbrage at that shot selection unless you were prepared to grant that it's entirely a result of being too fat.

Anyway, in the spirit of objective evaluation let's all come on down for a round of:

Draft or No Draft

The post in which I post an anonymous bio of a prospect in this upcoming draft and you, whoever makes a post, decides whether to draft or not to draft said prospect, hopefully without ever knowing who it is you are evaluating. Let's start off with an easy one:

This prospect currently plays power forward.

He is a top twenty player in college basketball by the following metrics:
- PER
- Total Efficiency
- Efficiency per 40 minutes
- Win shares per 40 minutes

His most outstanding specific skills are as follows:
- Top twenty in free throws drawn per FG attempt
- A TS% of over 60.
- 11th overall in the NCAA in steal percentage
- A top twenty player in rebounds per game
- 4th (!) in the NCAA in rebound percentage and defensive rebound percentage
- A decent passer for a big man: assist rate of 25.7

So I ask you, based on these accomplishments? Draft or No Draft?

Hmm, well the first thing I noticed when looking up his full stats that he's a low usage player. Around 15.5%. So his TS% may be because he knows his role and is selective offensively. The passing rate is nice. My hunch without with looking at the scouting report was that he was an Oberto type of player. Smart, hard working with good instincts but also with skill limitations.

What intrigues me regarding his NBA potential is the rebound percentage and steal percentage. Rebounds translate. It tells me he's high effort. Steals translate. It tells me he's relatively athletic with quick hands. He sounds like a potential role player on the NBA level. Seeing him listed at 6-8 225 gives me pause though. I think the best way to take advantage of his tools is at the 4. The measurements are going to be big in terms of his outlook. If he measures out okay, I could then see him being a very nice 2nd round pick.

Ed Wood · Post #93 » by **Ed Wood** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:36 am

The player concerned is a junior; his conference RPI is 9th.

fishercob · Post #94 » by **fishercob** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:52 am

Wow ed. Great find.

Severn Hoos · Post #95 » by **Severn Hoos** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:07 am

How about a SF from a Power conference with the following qualifications:

Top 10 in NCAA in total Win Shares
Top 10 in NCAA in Steals
PER just shy of 30
TS% over 62%
A/TO Ratio of nearly 2:1
Top 30 in EFG%, OWS, and DWS

Sorry - did I jump the gun? ;-)

Definitely interested in this guy, not sure why he's not getting more love from the "experts" and the draft sites.

closg00 · Post #96 » by **closg00** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:41 pm

Ed Wood wrote:The player concerned is a junior; his conference RPI is 9th.

Who is-it?, don't keep us hanging during allstar weekend

Jay81 · Post #97 » by **Jay81** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:22 pm

one thing with Ernie is that he dosent draft basketball players with skill. All the guys he drafts are good athletes who can dunk and jump but for the most part nobody he picks has bball skils

BarnabyJones · Post #98 » by **BarnabyJones** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:20 pm

Not sure if it means anything, but apparently Kidd-Gilchrist told reporters that he was coming back to school for his sophomore year.

We'll see.

no D in Hibachi · Post #99 » by **no D in Hibachi** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:21 pm

Watching the Mizzu/KU game. First chance to see Thomas Robinson. Looks real small. Definately closer to 6'8'' than the listed 6'10''. Measurements will determine whether he's a solid #2 selection or a mid-lotto type guy.

7-Day Dray · Post #100 » by **7-Day Dray** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:26 pm

BarnabyJones wrote:Not sure if it means anything, but apparently Kidd-Gilchrist told reporters that he was coming back to school for his sophomore year.

We'll see.

He said he's going to graduate.

I can't really see him staying though. Maybe for one more year? But not all 4 years. And I think Calipari will try to push him out the door.