GT #63: Bucks @ Wizards 7 PM CSN

[Dat2U]

How often have we finished the season strongly only to start off 1-10 or 5-20 the next year. There's no real carryover from the end of one season to the next, especially if you've missed the playoffs.

You want us to stop winning less than 30 games every year? Then we need better talent.

[tontoz]

a) This isn't last year
b) This year is a weak draft class)
c) There's always a chance that the team might move up in the lottery anyway

We haven't won more than 30 games since the 2007-2008 season. That's going on almost 6 years. At least set the benchmark to 30 win season this year. It's progress.

a) Really?
b) Last year's draft was weak as well.
c) That is true every year. Not sure what your point is. Teams with the worse record have better lottery odds and have a higher pick if they don't win the lottery.

Winning 30 games is not noteworthy at all.

[pancakes3]

Well, since there's nothing any of us can really do about it, why not root for wins and let our natural suckiness take care of the losing? If we win, great! We wanted to! If we lose, well screw it, it helps the tank!

[Rafael122]

a) This isn't last year
b) This year is a weak draft class)
c) There's always a chance that the team might move up in the lottery anyway

We haven't won more than 30 games since the 2007-2008 season. That's going on almost 6 years. At least set the benchmark to 30 win season this year. It's progress.

a) Really?
b) Last year's draft was weak as well.
c) That is true every year. Not sure what your point is. Teams with the worse record have better lottery odds and have a higher pick if they don't win the lottery.

Winning 30 games is not noteworthy at all.

What's the alternative? If it sounds like I'm accepting mediocrity, I'm not. I never said there's a carryover from one season to the next. All I'm saying is this whole thing about tanking is depressing. We probably wouldn't have this conversation if Wall didn't miss the first two months of the year. 4-28 or whatever it was sunk us big time. Maybe I'm in the minority, I'd rather see incremental improvements to the team rather than watching another 19-20 win team, looking at prospects in January, wishing it was May, then watching the draft. It's depressing and has been for the last 4 years. And with the GM we currently have now, even if we do have a top 5 pick, there's no guarantee we'll pick the right guy.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Well, since there's nothing any of us can really do about it, why not root for wins and let our natural suckiness take care of the losing? If we win, great! We wanted to! If we lose, well screw it, it helps the tank!

That's exactly how I feel. I root for wins but I'm never upset when we lose (unless we give the game away at the end)

[nate33]

I say we sit Nene and have the rest of the team try hard to win games.

[tontoz]

What's the alternative? If it sounds like I'm accepting mediocrity, I'm not. I never said there's a carryover from one season to the next. All I'm saying is this whole thing about tanking is depressing. We probably wouldn't have this conversation if Wall didn't miss the first two months of the year. 4-28 or whatever it was sunk us big time. Maybe I'm in the minority, I'd rather see incremental improvements to the team rather than watching another 19-20 win team, looking at prospects in January, wishing it was May, then watching the draft. It's depressing and has been for the last 4 years. And with the GM we currently have now, even if we do have a top 5 pick, there's no guarantee we'll pick the right guy.

Incremental improvement is the road to nowhere. The only way this team will get to 50 wins (which actually is significant) is to add more talent. They have no capspace so the only ways to do it are trades and the draft.

This season will still be a failure no matter whether they win 30 or 25 games.

EG is nothing if not a survivor. He went with the consensus pick last year and it worked. Maybe he will do the same this year.

[Rafael122]

What's the alternative? If it sounds like I'm accepting mediocrity, I'm not. I never said there's a carryover from one season to the next. All I'm saying is this whole thing about tanking is depressing. We probably wouldn't have this conversation if Wall didn't miss the first two months of the year. 4-28 or whatever it was sunk us big time. Maybe I'm in the minority, I'd rather see incremental improvements to the team rather than watching another 19-20 win team, looking at prospects in January, wishing it was May, then watching the draft. It's depressing and has been for the last 4 years. And with the GM we currently have now, even if we do have a top 5 pick, there's no guarantee we'll pick the right guy.

Incremental improvement is the road to nowhere. The only way this team will get to 50 wins (which actually is significant) is to add more talent. They have no capspace so the only ways to do it are trades and the draft.

This season will still be a failure no matter whether they win 30 or 25 games.

EG is nothing if not a survivor. He stuck out his neck on Vesely and got burned. He went with the consensus pick last year and it worked. Maybe he will do the same this year.

Incremental improvements, this team hasn't won 25+ games in 4 years dude! 30 wins, I'm not popping out the bubbly or making babies, but damn it gives us something. Barring injury, we probably would have made the playoffs this year. We would have been a first round exit, but it gives the young's playoff experience.

[tontoz]

This team hasn't won over 45 games since the 70s. That is the real problem. It isn't just about the last 4 years.

30 wins should never be a goal.

[DCZards]

Incremental improvement is the road to nowhere. The only way this team will get to 50 wins (which actually is significant) is to add more talent. They have no capspace so the only ways to do it are trades and the draft.

This season will still be a failure no matter whether they win 30 or 25 games.

So how long do you propose the team tanking---2-3 more years? Because it's unlikely that next year's draft is going to yield player(s) who get us to the 50 win level. Is there something wrong with trying to win 25 this year, 40 or so next year, 48 the year after that, and maybe 50 plus the following year? I think that's what is meant by incremental improvement.

And, of course, adding more talent should be the goal. That's a no-brainer.

[nate33]

So how long do you propose the team tanking---2-3 more years? Because it's unlikely that next year's draft is going to yield player(s) who get us to the 50 win level. Is there something wrong with trying to win 25 this year, 40 or so next year, 48 the year after that, and maybe 50 plus the following year? I think that's what is meant by incremental improvement.

I propose tanking for 19 more games. And by "tanking", I really just mean that we should bench Nene. He is playing hurt and his "development" at this point in his career is unnecessary. Let's give the youngsters more time, and let's give the team a chance to figure out how to win without leaning on Nene as a crutch.

[tontoz]

Incremental improvement is the road to nowhere. The only way this team will get to 50 wins (which actually is significant) is to add more talent. They have no capspace so the only ways to do it are trades and the draft.

This season will still be a failure no matter whether they win 30 or 25 games.

So how long do you propose the team tanking---2-3 more years? Because it's unlikely that next year's draft is going to yield player(s) who get us to the 50 win level. Is there something wrong with trying to win 25 this year, 40 or so next year, 48 the year after that, and maybe 50 plus the following year? I think that's what is meant by incremental improvement.

In that scenario why would it matter if they won 25 or 30 games in the first season?

[TheKingOfVa360]

I say we sit Nene and have the rest of the team try hard to win games.

I agree, it's time for us to figure out which one of our young bigs will be a future piece. This might sound funny but I want Ves to start for at least 10 games.

[pancakes3]

The ony thing stopping Ves from being a double-double player is his 7.4 fouls per 36

[nuposse04]

So how long do you propose the team tanking---2-3 more years? Because it's unlikely that next year's draft is going to yield player(s) who get us to the 50 win level. Is there something wrong with trying to win 25 this year, 40 or so next year, 48 the year after that, and maybe 50 plus the following year? I think that's what is meant by incremental improvement.

I propose tanking for 19 more games. And by "tanking", I really just mean that we should bench Nene. He is playing hurt and his "development" at this point in his career is unnecessary. Let's give the youngsters more time, and let's give the team a chance to figure out how to win without leaning on Nene as a crutch.

Pretty much this. The young guys need development and our players that are somwhat worth a damn don't need unnecessary miles on them. I also view it as a win-win situation. If we lose games, we win. If we win games, our bench players up their value. More than anything, players like Vesely and Seraphin need to find their confidence from last seasons end of the year run. Booker also finally getting healthy and showing some dividends is nice too.

Also, if we do win our fair share of games with our young guys, and more importantly, the duo of Wall and Beal show real signs of making something....A strong back court+less toxic culture=maybe actually attracting FAs who are worth a damn.

Although the latter is contingent on our FO actually building such conditions, so that might be a pipe dream.

[TheBabyMaker]

This team hasn't won over 45 games since the 70s. That is the real problem. It isn't just about the last 4 years.

30 wins should never be a goal.

30 wins should not be a goal but, tanking games and praying to get the top pick shoud not be a goal eighter (its not like there is a Lebron or Kobe in the draft every year). I just don't get the losing mentality of this board (tanking and losing on purpose) maybe thats what the problem with this organizating, just a losing mentality and environment with fans accepting it year after year, why even bother to play the game if you want to lose. You can't only win through the draft, you need free agents too but who would want to play here (any good free agent) in this constant losing environment. No wonder I don't bother to post here often I get tired of reading this crap.

[tontoz]

This team hasn't won over 45 games since the 70s. That is the real problem. It isn't just about the last 4 years.

30 wins should never be a goal.

30 wins should not be a goal but, tanking games and praying to get the top pick shoud not be a goal eighter (its not like there is a Lebron or Kobe in the draft every year). I just don't get the losing mentality of this board (tanking and losing on purpose) maybe thats what the problem with this organizating, just a losing mentality and environment with fans accepting it year after year, why even bother to play the game if you want to lose. You can't only win through the draft, you need free agents too but who would want to play here (any good free agent) in this constant losing environment. No wonder I don't bother to post here often I get tired of reading this crap.

Tanking isn't a goal, it is a means to an end.

This team is over the cap so it doesn't matter whether free agents want to play here or not. How exactly do you propose bringing in the talent to make this team a good one?

The mentality of the fans isn't going to cause the team to lose games year after year. Lack of talent is what causes that.

[DCZards]

30 wins should not be a goal but, tanking games and praying to get the top pick shoud not be a goal eighter (its not like there is a Lebron or Kobe in the draft every year). I just don't get the losing mentality of this board (tanking and losing on purpose) maybe thats what the problem with this organizating, just a losing mentality and environment with fans accepting it year after year, why even bother to play the game if you want to lose. You can't only win through the draft, you need free agents too but who would want to play here (any good free agent) in this constant losing environment. No wonder I don't bother to post here often I get tired of reading this crap.

Well said. Please post more often, babymaker.

[Knighthonor]

This team hasn't won over 45 games since the 70s. That is the real problem. It isn't just about the last 4 years.

30 wins should never be a goal.

30 wins should not be a goal but, tanking games and praying to get the top pick shoud not be a goal eighter (its not like there is a Lebron or Kobe in the draft every year). I just don't get the losing mentality of this board (tanking and losing on purpose) maybe thats what the problem with this organizating, just a losing mentality and environment with fans accepting it year after year, why even bother to play the game if you want to lose. You can't only win through the draft, you need free agents too but who would want to play here (any good free agent) in this constant losing environment. No wonder I don't bother to post here often I get tired of reading this crap.

Tanking isn't a goal, it is a means to an end.

This team is over the cap so it doesn't matter whether free agents want to play here or not. How exactly do you propose bringing in the talent to make this team a good one?

The mentality of the fans isn't going to cause the team to lose games year after year. Lack of talent is what causes that.

great post tontoz

[payitforward]

Tanking isn't a goal, it is a means to an end.

This team is over the cap so it doesn't matter whether free agents want to play here or not. How exactly do you propose bringing in the talent to make this team a good one?

The mentality of the fans isn't going to cause the team to lose games year after year. Lack of talent is what causes that.

great post tontoz

I don't agree. You play to win. Nor does what happened in the '70s, 80s, 90s matter. What matters is now and forward. And the only way to change the future is to put in place a FO that knows what it's doing.

We've had high picks and multiple picks for three years. Playing to get more of them is foolish. Of course we want to draft the best players we can, but with the picks we had at our disposal we could have had guys who've turned out to be some of the best young players in the league. Instead of Kawhi Leonard, Kenneth Faried, Chandler Parsons, Jae Crowder and another rookie prospect, we have Jan Vesely, Chris Singleton, Shelvin Mack, Tomas Santoransky and a tossed pick on our list.

We also could have had Curry and Blair in '09 and we could have done an imaginative job in '08 as well (look back at what Darryl Morey did that year for a guide to what i mean).