Official Trade Thread - Part XXVI

[Dark Faze]

I don't see the argument for this team needing yet another guy standing around watching an offense that's completely dependent on Wall being great.

Walls been surrounded by three 40% three point shooters for the majority of his minutes and we're struggling to hit .500.

Minus a defensive anchor at center that we can depend on, I don't think a stretch 4 is a luxury we can afford right now.

We need a two way four that can draw defensive attention and be disruptive by getting to the line. Basically a bigger, more offensively capable Booker.

I wanted someone with an impact at the line not too dissimilar to a healthy Nene. Someone who draws fouls but isn't currently a starter. So using advanced stats I used a search on basketball reference to find high freethrow rate players that average under 30 mpg that we might be able to pry.

One name surprised me-- Tyler Hansborough. 3 million a year on a two year contract. Underitilized on the raps due to them having Amir. Check out his PER 36 numbers:

11.3, 10.3 rpg on 7 free throw attempts and an extremely low usage of 14%. With a usage percentage of 20 last year he was 15 and 10 with 8 free throw attempts a game!

Extremely tough, gritty, draws fouls like crazy, loves to take charges, cheap contract.

[Nivek]

As for the original trade idea -- if I was running the Wizards, I would not make the deal because I'd rather have the cap space and flexibility to rebuild properly. Given the current management's All-In for the Playoffs strategy, and the likelihood that they'll re-sign Gortat, Ariza and Booker in the offseason, this trade would actually make some sense.

I wonder if Orlando would be willing to take a similar package for Jameer Nelson.

"...make some sense" to Ernie I think (hope) you mean? Otherwise it makes no sense. With Davis or with Nelson (and I'm sure they'd do it that way too -- they are eager to turn over their few veterans -- maybe excepting Afflalo? -- for cap space).

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Given how they do business, I can see how they might talk themselves into a trade for Davis.

[payitforward]

Or here is a tanktastic deal for the Bulls for Gibson.

Gibson for Maynor, Booker and Filler - any of Vesley, Singleton or Seraphin. The Wizards can throw in cash for the Bulls to take enough salaries for the Wizards to stay under the tax.

For the Bulls they can sideline Booker with a trivial injury, then have Maynor serve as tank Commander this season. Although Teague may beat him out for it.

It will be a lot cheaper for them to retain Booker than the rest of Gibson's deal.

This deal would improve the Wizards depth in two ways, Gibson is probably a slight upgrade from Booker and a more significant one when including health. Also it would open up 2 roster spots to add some D-League talent.

No thanks. Gibson is two years older than Booker, and he's signed for the next several years at big $$$. Even if you think he's a "slight upgrade" over Trevor, the cost is way too high even including dumping Maynor's $$$.

[verbal8]

Or here is a tanktastic deal for the Bulls for Gibson.

Gibson for Maynor, Booker and Filler - any of Vesley, Singleton or Seraphin. The Wizards can throw in cash for the Bulls to take enough salaries for the Wizards to stay under the tax.

For the Bulls they can sideline Booker with a trivial injury, then have Maynor serve as tank Commander this season. Although Teague may beat him out for it.

It will be a lot cheaper for them to retain Booker than the rest of Gibson's deal.

This deal would improve the Wizards depth in two ways, Gibson is probably a slight upgrade from Booker and a more significant one when including health. Also it would open up 2 roster spots to add some D-League talent.

No thanks. Gibson is two years older than Booker, and he's signed for the next several years at big $$$. Even if you think he's a "slight upgrade" over Trevor, the cost is way too high even including dumping Maynor's $$$.

Gibson is a pretty good defender isn't he? Booker has the athleticism to make some great defensive plays, but seems to be a liability in pick and role and post up situations.

I think if you have Gibson rather than Booker, it makes you free to move Nene or at least less reliant on him.

[payitforward]

...If you want a textbook example of how you really do rebuild a team (instead of pretending to, as Ernie has done), Orlando is it. Next year, they'll have 7 talented young players (Oladipo, Vucevic, Harkless, Harris, O'Quinn, Lamb and NIcholson) for a total of $16.3m. If they want to keep Price, Moore and Jones for the back of their bench, that'll add @$3m in veteran minimum salaries (paid by the league in part). Only Afflalo, along with Nelson and Davis (both of whom they are trying to move) will hold over from their old squad.

They'll have a high Round 1 pick -- and they'll have either NY or Denver's pick as well (if NY, it'll be a high lottery pick). They will also have a conditional R1 pick from Philly (in 2015? or this year?). They'll have a high round 2 pick this year as well -- and they have the Lakers R1 pick and R2 pick in coming drafts.

If they actually use that cap space and get a top 3 pick, it could work out very well, but right now - the talent isn't very good, imo. The young talent has a lot of question marks. I agree with you on Big Baby - the Wiz shouldn't touch him.

Not very good? I don't know about that.... Oladipo may turn out great. Vucevic is very good indeed. Harkless is the same age as Beal and having a better season at the 3 than Bradley is at the 2. Tobias Harris -- assuming his injury isn't a career-changer -- is a terrific prospect too (he's only 1 year older than Beal!). And O'Quinn is going to have a solid career as a backup big in the league. Obviously, Lamb and Nicholson are marginal.

[LyricalRico]

Gary Neal anyone? Maybe MIL takes an expiring to get him off their books for next year.

[Nivek]

Gary Neal anyone? Maybe MIL takes an expiring to get him off their books for next year.

Not much to see there. Neal is barely above replacement level this season. He's better than Maynor or Temple, but that's not saying much.

[deneem4]

Nene/ariza/
for
pek/brewer/2nd rd

Minnesota gets defensive, they want asik, swapping a very productive ariza for brewer would make this a no brainer

[Dat2U]

Or here is a tanktastic deal for the Bulls for Gibson.

Gibson for Maynor, Booker and Filler - any of Vesley, Singleton or Seraphin. The Wizards can throw in cash for the Bulls to take enough salaries for the Wizards to stay under the tax.

For the Bulls they can sideline Booker with a trivial injury, then have Maynor serve as tank Commander this season. Although Teague may beat him out for it.

It will be a lot cheaper for them to retain Booker than the rest of Gibson's deal.

This deal would improve the Wizards depth in two ways, Gibson is probably a slight upgrade from Booker and a more significant one when including health. Also it would open up 2 roster spots to add some D-League talent.

No thanks. Gibson is two years older than Booker, and he's signed for the next several years at big $$$. Even if you think he's a "slight upgrade" over Trevor, the cost is way too high even including dumping Maynor's $$$.

Not in love with Gibson either but I think you seriously, seriously overrate Booker. I love stats as much as the next guy but Gibson's value as a low post defender far exceeds whatever production Booker provides on the boards & around the rim. Booker is also a free agent this year and looking at his limitations & his injury history, I wouldn't be overpaying to bring him back, if at all.

[Ruzious]

...If you want a textbook example of how you really do rebuild a team (instead of pretending to, as Ernie has done), Orlando is it. Next year, they'll have 7 talented young players (Oladipo, Vucevic, Harkless, Harris, O'Quinn, Lamb and NIcholson) for a total of $16.3m. If they want to keep Price, Moore and Jones for the back of their bench, that'll add @$3m in veteran minimum salaries (paid by the league in part). Only Afflalo, along with Nelson and Davis (both of whom they are trying to move) will hold over from their old squad.

They'll have a high Round 1 pick -- and they'll have either NY or Denver's pick as well (if NY, it'll be a high lottery pick). They will also have a conditional R1 pick from Philly (in 2015? or this year?). They'll have a high round 2 pick this year as well -- and they have the Lakers R1 pick and R2 pick in coming drafts.

If they actually use that cap space and get a top 3 pick, it could work out very well, but right now - the talent isn't very good, imo. The young talent has a lot of question marks. I agree with you on Big Baby - the Wiz shouldn't touch him.

Not very good? I don't know about that.... Oladipo may turn out great. Vucevic is very good indeed. Harkless is the same age as Beal and having a better season at the 3 than Bradley is at the 2. Tobias Harris -- assuming his injury isn't a career-changer -- is a terrific prospect too (he's only 1 year older than Beal!). And O'Quinn is going to have a solid career as a backup big in the league. Obviously, Lamb and Nicholson are marginal.

Vuk and Ola are good pieces to build with - though not necessarily around. Comparisons to Beal's production don't help, because I'm very critical of Beal's play. Harris is talented, but he's a tweener in a bad way. He seems more comfortable at PF, but he's too small to excel there, imo. The Bucks gave up on him as a 3. It could work out well for Orlando, but I could also see it failing. If they get a top 3 pick in this draft, I'd be a lot more positive.

[jivelikenice]

Gary Neal anyone? Maybe MIL takes an expiring to get him off their books for next year.

Not much to see there. Neal is barely above replacement level this season. He's better than Maynor or Temple, but that's not saying much.

Not saying he is anything special, but would you take him if it meant we got to dump Maynor?

[TGW]

Or here is a tanktastic deal for the Bulls for Gibson.

Gibson for Maynor, Booker and Filler - any of Vesley, Singleton or Seraphin. The Wizards can throw in cash for the Bulls to take enough salaries for the Wizards to stay under the tax.

For the Bulls they can sideline Booker with a trivial injury, then have Maynor serve as tank Commander this season. Although Teague may beat him out for it.

It will be a lot cheaper for them to retain Booker than the rest of Gibson's deal.

This deal would improve the Wizards depth in two ways, Gibson is probably a slight upgrade from Booker and a more significant one when including health. Also it would open up 2 roster spots to add some D-League talent.

No thanks. Gibson is two years older than Booker, and he's signed for the next several years at big $$$. Even if you think he's a "slight upgrade" over Trevor, the cost is way too high even including dumping Maynor's $$$.

Gibson ain't a slight upgrade over Booker. He's simply a MUCH better player than Booker defensively, and would be a perfect compliment to the non-defending Gortat.

[fishercob]

Or here is a tanktastic deal for the Bulls for Gibson.

Gibson for Maynor, Booker and Filler - any of Vesley, Singleton or Seraphin. The Wizards can throw in cash for the Bulls to take enough salaries for the Wizards to stay under the tax.

For the Bulls they can sideline Booker with a trivial injury, then have Maynor serve as tank Commander this season. Although Teague may beat him out for it.

It will be a lot cheaper for them to retain Booker than the rest of Gibson's deal.

This deal would improve the Wizards depth in two ways, Gibson is probably a slight upgrade from Booker and a more significant one when including health. Also it would open up 2 roster spots to add some D-League talent.

No thanks. Gibson is two years older than Booker, and he's signed for the next several years at big $$$. Even if you think he's a "slight upgrade" over Trevor, the cost is way too high even including dumping Maynor's $$$.

Gibson ain't a slight upgrade over Booker. He's simply a MUCH better player than Booker defensively, and would be a perfect compliment to the non-defending Gortat.

It's not simple to substantiate the claim that Gibson is a big defensive upgrade over Booker, and yet I'm quite confident that it is true. I think it's far from coincidence Chicago has been an elite defensive team for basically all of Gibson's tenure there.

The issue and question is one of price. Is Gibson worth the extra money? Because NBA teams still seem to give the bigger contract to guys who simply score more raw points, there's a chance that we'll be able to keep Booker for a real bargain -- something to the tune of 3 years, $10M. I think he has shown to be worth well more than that, and his value has been artificially depressed due to bad injury luck (I don't think he missed a game in college, did he?).

I'd try to lock Booker up long term on the relative cheap and invest the savings elsewhere.

[MikeTheKid]

Maynor, Ves and Singleton for D-Mo and Aaron Brooks from the Rockets

[Nivek]

Or here is a tanktastic deal for the Bulls for Gibson.

Gibson for Maynor, Booker and Filler - any of Vesley, Singleton or Seraphin. The Wizards can throw in cash for the Bulls to take enough salaries for the Wizards to stay under the tax.

For the Bulls they can sideline Booker with a trivial injury, then have Maynor serve as tank Commander this season. Although Teague may beat him out for it.

It will be a lot cheaper for them to retain Booker than the rest of Gibson's deal.

This deal would improve the Wizards depth in two ways, Gibson is probably a slight upgrade from Booker and a more significant one when including health. Also it would open up 2 roster spots to add some D-League talent.

No thanks. Gibson is two years older than Booker, and he's signed for the next several years at big $$$. Even if you think he's a "slight upgrade" over Trevor, the cost is way too high even including dumping Maynor's $$$.

Gibson ain't a slight upgrade over Booker. He's simply a MUCH better player than Booker defensively, and would be a perfect compliment to the non-defending Gortat.

Can't just take Gibson's defense, though. The whole Booker is more productive than Gibson this year. And Booker's minutes have been more difficult -- as a low-minute starter the past few weeks, he plays the toughest part of each game. Gibson plays more minutes, but a greater proportion come against bench players who aren't as good. And Gibson is older. And he costs more than Booker is likely to cost.

Also, Gortat is not "non-defending." He's a major step back defensively compared to Okafor, but he's not a bad defender. He's not a good defender either, of course. Just sorta average.

[jivelikenice]

Maynor, Ves and Singleton for D-Mo and Aaron Brooks from the Rockets

I'd trade Seraphin instead of Vesely....

[verbal8]

Maynor, Ves and Singleton for D-Mo and Aaron Brooks from the Rockets

I can't see any way Houston would go for that.

[Dat2U]

No thanks. Gibson is two years older than Booker, and he's signed for the next several years at big $$$. Even if you think he's a "slight upgrade" over Trevor, the cost is way too high even including dumping Maynor's $$$.

Gibson ain't a slight upgrade over Booker. He's simply a MUCH better player than Booker defensively, and would be a perfect compliment to the non-defending Gortat.

Can't just take Gibson's defense, though. The whole Booker is more productive than Gibson this year. And Booker's minutes have been more difficult -- as a low-minute starter the past few weeks, he plays the toughest part of each game. Gibson plays more minutes, but a greater proportion come against bench players who aren't as good. And Gibson is older. And he costs more than Booker is likely to cost.

Also, Gortat is not "non-defending." He's a major step back defensively compared to Okafor, but he's not a bad defender. He's not a good defender either, of course. Just sorta average.

I gotta disagree with the logic that Booker's minutes may be more difficult and he's more productive with Gibson so Booker's the obvious choice. The end result of Booker starting isn't a better team. In fact, I think we've taken a step back as a team with Booker in there with our starters.

A guy like Gibson is real legit value as a low post defender. To me that has more value than a guy that's a good rebounder but really struggles with team defensive concepts. Gibson could step onto any number of teams and fill a clearly defined & important role. A guy like Booker is not nearly as clean a fit.

[verbal8]

I'd try to lock Booker up long term on the relative cheap and invest the savings elsewhere.

I am starting to think that might be the best option for the Wizards. He has been playing well enough this season that him just signing the QO(around $3.4) is actually probably a discount. I think it takes something over the mini-MLE to get him signed long term, but I don't see a team really going much higher. Especially since the Wizards could match an offer sheet.

It looks like Gibson has had a decline in production this season and has a salary that gets a bit pricey at the end of his deal.

[Ruzious]

Gary Neal anyone? Maybe MIL takes an expiring to get him off their books for next year.

Milwaukee's traded for about 8 extra 2nd round picks in the last year, so if someone offers them a 2nd rounder, I think they pull the trigger so they can continue their efforts to be masters of the second round.