GT #42: WAS (20-21) in PHX (24-17), Fri Jan 24th 9pm, CSN+

[Hypnotizer]

IMO, he's probably worth 3yrs - $24 mil. For $11 million, you should an above average starter. He's not even as good as an average starting C in the league.

Howard - 20,5
P. Gasol - 19,2
Bosh - 19,0
M. Gasol - 14,8
Okafor - 14,4
Hibbert - 14,2
Chandler - 14,1
Bogut - 14,0
Jefferson - 13,5
Bynum - 12,2
Pekovic - 12,1
Humphries - 12,0
Horford - 12,0
Bargnani - 11,8
Noah - 11,1
Jordan - 10,9
Okur - 10,8

17 names. 11mln would be an average salary for a decent center.

[nate33]

Remember Nate, you are dealing with a GM who:

1) drafted Ves
2) drafted Singleton
3) WANTED to trade Ariza for Caron last year
4) Signed Maynor
5) Cut Marshall

Why would we trust his judgment on ANYTHING?

Every non no-brainer decision (i.e. requires GMing skills) he has made since Ted took over has been an unmitigated disaster.

Don't get me wrong. I think EG is a lousy GM, but he's not totally incompetent. I think he tends to make sound decisions when he's had a long enough time to evaluate his talent in his system. For the most part, when players leave the team, he gets fair value for them, and he avoids overpaying when it's time to resign our free agents.

EG's failing is when it comes time to extrapolate new players into our system, or to project how developing players will pan out. He just thinks that athleticism = potential.

[Nivek]

Grunfeld has kind of a mixed history with salary negotiations. He did successfully avoid giving major contracts to Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries. He reminded Arenas of Gil's promise to take less than the maximum and got him to sign for a bit under the max.

But, he also gave MAJOR money to the mediocre (at best) Tim Thomas. He gave the 34-year old Anthony Mason a 4-year contract.

And (I'd sorta forgotten about this) -- traded a 27-year old Ray Allen for a 34-year old Gary Payton. Who left as a free agent in a (failed) effort to win a title with the Lakers.

[mhd]

Grunfeld has kind of a mixed history with salary negotiations. He did successfully avoid giving major contracts to Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries. He reminded Arenas of Gil's promise to take less than the maximum and got him to sign for a bit under the max.

But, he also gave MAJOR money to the mediocre (at best) Tim Thomas. He gave the 34-year old Anthony Mason a 4-year contract.

And (I'd sorta forgotten about this) -- traded a 27-year old Ray Allen for a 34-year old Gary Payton. Who left as a free agent in a (failed) effort to win a title with the Lakers.

I always thought that that was an edict from their owner to shed cash b/c he was about to sell the team to Jordan.

[Nivek]

Also on the positive side for Grunfeld salary negotiations, he did Brendan Haywood to re-sign for less (probably pretty significantly less) than what Haywood could have gotten on the open market.

[Nivek]

Grunfeld has kind of a mixed history with salary negotiations. He did successfully avoid giving major contracts to Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries. He reminded Arenas of Gil's promise to take less than the maximum and got him to sign for a bit under the max.

But, he also gave MAJOR money to the mediocre (at best) Tim Thomas. He gave the 34-year old Anthony Mason a 4-year contract.

And (I'd sorta forgotten about this) -- traded a 27-year old Ray Allen for a 34-year old Gary Payton. Who left as a free agent in a (failed) effort to win a title with the Lakers.

I always thought that that was an edict from their owner to shed cash b/c he was about to sell the team to Jordan.

Could be.

Ruzious to the white courtesy phone please.

[stevemcqueen1]

I would pay more money to get Gortat on a two or three year deal than a four year deal.

[stevemcqueen1]

I don't know when the dates of everything come into effect in FA, but if possible, I would try and go after Monroe first and keep Gortat as a fall back option.

Figure there is somewhat of a chance to get Monroe if he hits the FA market. Not realistic, but not crazy. If that falls through, then we'd have a very good chance of just keeping Gortat.

But it's got to be one of those two. If you come up empty on both we're going to be terrible next season.

[hands11]

I'd rather just give Jordan Hill the MLE and go from there. Trade gortat+porter for Sanders.

I actually don't know how good a defender Jordan hill is...but maybe a Hawes+Hill combo next season could be useful.

Heck, I'd rather have Serapin as the center than resign Gortat to a major deal.

I'm with you there...I've seen enough out of Gortat to know there is no logical reason to retain him...which is why it is almost an absolute that Ernie will bring him back.

I wouldn't offer him more then 8 mil per. He's a worse player then Taj Gibson, why does he deserve more money? Plus he's older.

Which is what I said a while ago but people weren't ready to listen. Lots here are sure someone will throw more at him. And maybe they will. But I wouldn't. I like Gortat. He is a good guy to have on the team and I like the message he sends. But he isn't an A1 piece. But he could be a pieces of a three headed monster like Chicago had back in the day.

Nene, Gorat and another piece works. Question is, what would that other pieces be ? Len would have been a nice complement to those two.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Grunfeld has kind of a mixed history with salary negotiations. He did successfully avoid giving major contracts to Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries. He reminded Arenas of Gil's promise to take less than the maximum and got him to sign for a bit under the max.

But, he also gave MAJOR money to the mediocre (at best) Tim Thomas. He gave the 34-year old Anthony Mason a 4-year contract.

And (I'd sorta forgotten about this) -- traded a 27-year old Ray Allen for a 34-year old Gary Payton. Who left as a free agent in a (failed) effort to win a title with the Lakers.

Been a couple years probably since you and I last disagreed on this. I know we discussed Gil's contract no less than half a dozen times if not a dozen. Just some historical perspective for those who are relatively new to the board. Nivek already knows the opinion I will restate.

Signing Gil's deal was a huge mistake that I predicted would prove disastrous. He opted out hurt after multiple knee surgeries. I said beforehand Arenas knows his body is breaking down. I suggested that he was hurt, he and Jamison both did not play defense, and was very against the combined $167 million the Wizards committed. EG made an egregious blunder.

Eddie Jordan made the playoffs despite Arenas missing almost the entire season. EJ messed up royally by sabotaging team chemistry playing injured Gil in the playoffs. After the Wizards were eliminated, Gil got paid, had another surgery, and 11 games into the next season EJ was fired.

Karma perhaps has befallen EG and the Wizards ever since. They haven't even sniffed mediocrity since. EG is still overpaying for injured players and players up in years.

Keeping Gilbert to 10M less -- the 111M he got-- is nothing I applaud. The rest of what Nivek said applies. EG gives major money to mediocre players.

Don't even get me started on his draft history.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[AFM]

Grunfeld has kind of a mixed history with salary negotiations. He did successfully avoid giving major contracts to Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries. He reminded Arenas of Gil's promise to take less than the maximum and got him to sign for a bit under the max.

But, he also gave MAJOR money to the mediocre (at best) Tim Thomas. He gave the 34-year old Anthony Mason a 4-year contract.

And (I'd sorta forgotten about this) -- traded a 27-year old Ray Allen for a 34-year old Gary Payton. Who left as a free agent in a (failed) effort to win a title with the Lakers.

Been a couple years probably since you and I last disagreed on this. I know we discussed Gil's contrsct no less than half a dozen times if not a dozen. Just some historical perspective for those who are relatively new to the board. Nivek already knows the opinion I will restate.

Signing Gil's deal was a huge mistake that I predicted would prove disastrous. He opted out hurt after multiple knee surgeries. I said beforehand Arenas knows his body is breaking down. I suggested that he was hurt, he and Jamison both did not play defense, and was very against the combined $167 million the Wizards committed. EG made an egregious blunder.

Eddie Jordan made the playoffs despite Arenas missing almost the entire season. EJ messed up royally by sabotaging team chemistry playing injured Gil in the playoffs. After the Wizards were eliminated, Gil got paid, had another surgery, and 11 games into the next season EJ was fired.

Karma perhaps has befallen EG and the Wizards ever since. They haven't even sniffed mediocrity since. EG is still overpaying for injured players and players up in years.

Keeping Gilbert to 10M less -- the 111M he got-- is nothing I applaud. The rest of what Nivek said applies. EG gives major money to mediocre players.

Don't even get me started on his draft history.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

CCJ, I have a family friend who works for Wiz organization. Well, really the Caps, but he is the "reserve" surgeon for the Wizards.
According to him, he and the other doctors told Pollin that Arenas would never be the same player again, but Pollin was so desperate to win in his old age that he didn't care. It was a go for broke move.
I don't think EG can be blamed for resigning Gil.

[Wizardspride]

I called it......


Click on the link to read the rest.
http://www.nba.com/suns/news/now-health ... mpact-suns

Now Healthy, Len Making Big Impact for Suns


One morning after practice, Phoenix rookie Alex Len was engaged in a friendly three-point shootout with the rest of the Suns big men. Len, a 7-foot-1 center who made all of one three-pointer in college, sank four in a row.

There were no smiles or three-pointers after a similar practice that same week. Instead Len was running three-man fast break drills with a handful of teammates, a practice-ending drill to work on conditioning. When Len would begin to flag, Suns Head Coach Jeff Hornacek would encouragingly yell “let’s go!”

The No. 5 overall pick obliged, finishing the drill with enough speed to risk convincing Hornacek that maybe he hadn’t exhausted him enough.

Len doesn’t mind the grueling drills. He appreciates the inter-team contests. He’s part of both of them, now. Part of the team.

After months of pain and rehab following a pair of ankle surgeries, he can be “one of the guys.”

[hands11]

Grunfeld has kind of a mixed history with salary negotiations. He did successfully avoid giving major contracts to Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries. He reminded Arenas of Gil's promise to take less than the maximum and got him to sign for a bit under the max.

But, he also gave MAJOR money to the mediocre (at best) Tim Thomas. He gave the 34-year old Anthony Mason a 4-year contract.

And (I'd sorta forgotten about this) -- traded a 27-year old Ray Allen for a 34-year old Gary Payton. Who left as a free agent in a (failed) effort to win a title with the Lakers.

Been a couple years probably since you and I last disagreed on this. I know we discussed Gil's contrsct no less than half a dozen times if not a dozen. Just some historical perspective for those who are relatively new to the board. Nivek already knows the opinion I will restate.

Signing Gil's deal was a huge mistake that I predicted would prove disastrous. He opted out hurt after multiple knee surgeries. I said beforehand Arenas knows his body is breaking down. I suggested that he was hurt, he and Jamison both did not play defense, and was very against the combined $167 million the Wizards committed. EG made an egregious blunder.

Eddie Jordan made the playoffs despite Arenas missing almost the entire season. EJ messed up royally by sabotaging team chemistry playing injured Gil in the playoffs. After the Wizards were eliminated, Gil got paid, had another surgery, and 11 games into the next season EJ was fired.

Karma perhaps has befallen EG and the Wizards ever since. They haven't even sniffed mediocrity since. EG is still overpaying for injured players and players up in years.

Keeping Gilbert to 10M less -- the 111M he got-- is nothing I applaud. The rest of what Nivek said applies. EG gives major money to mediocre players.

Don't even get me started on his draft history.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

CCJ, I have a family friend who works for Wiz organization. Well, really the Caps, but he is the "reserve" surgeon for the Wizards.
According to him, he and the other doctors told Pollin that Arenas would never be the same player again, but Pollin was so desperate to win in his old age that he didn't care. It was a go for broke move.
I don't think EG can be blamed for resigning Gil.

Where were you with this information when I endlessly was making this case in the past. Yes, Abe was despite to win now and that affected several decisions. He also hand picked EFJ before hiring a GM and then stuck to his guns for like 6 years on that decision.

Hey, EG is not a great GM, but pairing him with Abe was the worst thing that could happen.

[AFM]

Been a couple years probably since you and I last disagreed on this. I know we discussed Gil's contrsct no less than half a dozen times if not a dozen. Just some historical perspective for those who are relatively new to the board. Nivek already knows the opinion I will restate.

Signing Gil's deal was a huge mistake that I predicted would prove disastrous. He opted out hurt after multiple knee surgeries. I said beforehand Arenas knows his body is breaking down. I suggested that he was hurt, he and Jamison both did not play defense, and was very against the combined $167 million the Wizards committed. EG made an egregious blunder.

Eddie Jordan made the playoffs despite Arenas missing almost the entire season. EJ messed up royally by sabotaging team chemistry playing injured Gil in the playoffs. After the Wizards were eliminated, Gil got paid, had another surgery, and 11 games into the next season EJ was fired.

Karma perhaps has befallen EG and the Wizards ever since. They haven't even sniffed mediocrity since. EG is still overpaying for injured players and players up in years.

Keeping Gilbert to 10M less -- the 111M he got-- is nothing I applaud. The rest of what Nivek said applies. EG gives major money to mediocre players.

Don't even get me started on his draft history.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

CCJ, I have a family friend who works for Wiz organization. Well, really the Caps, but he is the "reserve" surgeon for the Wizards.
According to him, he and the other doctors told Pollin that Arenas would never be the same player again, but Pollin was so desperate to win in his old age that he didn't care. It was a go for broke move.
I don't think EG can be blamed for resigning Gil.

Where were you with this information when I endlessly was making this case in the past. Yes, Abe was despite to win now and that affected several decisions. He also hand picked EFJ before hiring a GM and then stuck to his guns for like 6 years on that decision.

Hey, EG is not a great GM, but pairing him with Abe was the worst thing that could happen.

Heh, I was paranoid. I didn't know if it was a "secret" or not.

[Jimmy Recard]

If we had to make the decision on the day we traded for him, he probably would have gotten 4 years $48M, but his relatively mediocre production this season is going to hurt his value on the market. I'm guessing 4-years $40M. He's just not that good and EG has had an entire season to see it with his own eyes. He's okay but he's not a star and doesn't deserve star money.

Remember Nate, you are dealing with a GM who:

1) drafted Ves
2) drafted Singleton
3) WANTED to trade Ariza for Caron last year
4) Signed Maynor
5) Cut Marshall

Why would we trust his judgment on ANYTHING?

Every non no-brainer decision (i.e. requires GMing skills) he has made since Ted took over has been an unmitigated disaster.

Holy crap i'd completely blocked that out. F U Ernie

[hands11]

CCJ, I have a family friend who works for Wiz organization. Well, really the Caps, but he is the "reserve" surgeon for the Wizards.
According to him, he and the other doctors told Pollin that Arenas would never be the same player again, but Pollin was so desperate to win in his old age that he didn't care. It was a go for broke move.
I don't think EG can be blamed for resigning Gil.

Where were you with this information when I endlessly was making this case in the past. Yes, Abe was despite to win now and that affected several decisions. He also hand picked EFJ before hiring a GM and then stuck to his guns for like 6 years on that decision.

Hey, EG is not a great GM, but pairing him with Abe was the worst thing that could happen.

Heh, I was paranoid. I didn't know if it was a "secret" or not.

Well you could have at least chimed in with some no nondescript post supporting what I was saying

[AFM]

Where were you with this information when I endlessly was making this case in the past. Yes, Abe was despite to win now and that affected several decisions. He also hand picked EFJ before hiring a GM and then stuck to his guns for like 6 years on that decision.

Hey, EG is not a great GM, but pairing him with Abe was the worst thing that could happen.

Heh, I was paranoid. I didn't know if it was a "secret" or not.

Well you could have at least chimed in with some no nondescript post supporting what I was saying

I thought you could have handled it yourself

[hands11]

I called it......


Click on the link to read the rest.
http://www.nba.com/suns/news/now-health ... mpact-suns

Now Healthy, Len Making Big Impact for Suns


One morning after practice, Phoenix rookie Alex Len was engaged in a friendly three-point shootout with the rest of the Suns big men. Len, a 7-foot-1 center who made all of one three-pointer in college, sank four in a row.

There were no smiles or three-pointers after a similar practice that same week. Instead Len was running three-man fast break drills with a handful of teammates, a practice-ending drill to work on conditioning. When Len would begin to flag, Suns Head Coach Jeff Hornacek would encouragingly yell “let’s go!”

The No. 5 overall pick obliged, finishing the drill with enough speed to risk convincing Hornacek that maybe he hadn’t exhausted him enough.

Len doesn’t mind the grueling drills. He appreciates the inter-team contests. He’s part of both of them, now. Part of the team.

After months of pain and rehab following a pair of ankle surgeries, he can be “one of the guys.”

Well, we are going to get a look tonight at the center we could have had to go along with Nene and now Gortat.

With Nene and Okafor in the post with Ves and Kevin still on board and Len an injury concern, here was my take going into the draft.

6/23/13

Burke/VO
Len

VO and Burke are ranked 2 and 3 in scoring and assists for rookies. Felt both would challenge for ROTY but neither may get it with MCW playing like he has.

As for calling busts. I was a hell no on Bennett and Shabazz and projected Noel would drop like a rock. Even got his draft slot right on the draft projects thread which I came in 2nd

I missed on MCW and Giannis but I never really considered them or researched them much as moves the Wizards would make. Both were projected projects and EG couldn't swing like that again. Which was way I had Len a level below Burke and VO. The ankle injuries pushed him back some. But I really liked the young man as a solid pick after listening to his interviews. If he can stay healthy, he will be a good center. Maybe not top notch, but good for what we needed. 7-1 255 and he is only 20. He is going to be stronger. He has what it takes mentally. Was way impressed by his decision to come to MD and even more that he learned to speak English like that in one year. He will put in the work. That counts a lot in my book. What between the ears is a huge difference maker at this level.

[Illmatic21]

Based on how Wall has been playing defense lately, Dragic will probably do whatever he wants tonight.

This game is gonna be ugly.. probably something like the Clippers game from earlier in the season.

[hands11]

Based on how Wall has been playing defense lately, Dragic will probably do whatever he wants tonight.

This game is gonna be ugly.. probably something like the Clippers game from earlier in the season.

Its the Wizards.

Face it. We have no idea what will happen.

Its just as likely they come out looking great and its a blow out.
Or that we look good and win a competitive game.
Or that we look good and lose a competitive game.
Or we could look terrible like Boston.

One thing you can count on is they will get little help from Randy during the game but he will nail what happened after the game in an interview.