Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5

[dckingsfan]

Miami did well w/Dragic but he won't be worth the money, and they are literally 6 deep. Wade is always a question mark health wise, so I'm suppose to be afraid of them rolling out Chalmers and Dragic as the starting backcourt?

Yeah, any talk of Pat Riley pulling off a miracle has to be tempered a day later with news that Chris Bosh may have a serious lung problem. Hopefully, it's not too bad.

Yep, getting Dragic and Whiteside only to lose Bosh - wow - best laid plans...

[gambitx777]

Man the bucks could be really scary next year if every one is healthy.

[FAH1223]

Wow, KG getting an extension?

Jerry Zgoda: Some intel gathered: Wolves & KG are not considering this a 29-game thing. Both sides fully intend he'll play at least next season too Twitter @JerryZgoda - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.68vY2gef.dpuf

Jon Krawczynski: AP Source: The Timberwolves are not bringing KG back for just this year. They want to do a 2-year extension with him. Twitter @APkrawczynski - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.68vY2gef.dpuf

KG still can play defense and rebound.

And he doesn't need the ball. He can play 20 minutes for another year or two IMO.

[Induveca]

Dragic's for two first rounders? Dragic's never averaged over 14 PPG before last season. More in the 7-10 category.

Not a fan of that guy. He's not horrible, but he's also not young. If Wade wasn't (not) playing on just one leg and Bosh wasn't a 3 point shooting center I'd be more impressed.

End of the day they are Dragic/Deng/Bosh/Ike Austin...err Whiteside. Oh god please don't trade for Whiteside Ernie.

Whiteside is putting up Dwight Howard type numbers in his prime and is playing like a dominant defensive C... why wouldn't anyone not want that guy on your team?

I don't understand the Ike Austin comparison, other than playing for Miami, the two have nothing in common.

5th year journeyman type, comes out of nowhere to average 15 points, 10 rebounds for Miami. I see a similarity.

It's a Linsanity or Ike Austin scenario waiting to happen.

[TheSecretWeapon]

I agree with Dat -- any comparison between Whiteside and Austin is superficial. What Whiteside is doing is MILES better than what Austin did. Even in his good year with the Heat, Austin was right about the league average in production. It was a pleasant surprise to be sure, but he wasn't exceptional.

Whiteside, on the other hand, has been dominant this year. He's been one of the league's best rebounders. He's been very good on defense. About the only real knock on him so far is that he fouls too much.

Now, he's played only 489 minutes so far this season, so we're still looking at a fairly small sample size. There's likely going to be some regression to the mean with him. But what he's done so far is WAY better than what Austin ever did.

[Ruzious]

Man the bucks could be really scary next year if every one is healthy.

An interesting post on the Jason Kidd effect by Bucks forum poster Serge:

Bucks players under Kidd this season:

Dudley - career-high (8 seasons) TS% of 62.0%
Henson - career-high TS% of 58.2%
Middleton - career-high TS% of 57.4%
Marshall - career-high TS% of 56.2%
Knight - career-high TS% of 55.6%
Bayless - 2nd best career (7 seasons) TS% of 55.1%
Giannis - improved his TS% from 51.8% to 56.4%
Ersan - injured
JOB - rookie
Parker - rookie
Larry - high

Mayo and Zaza are the only exceptions here.

What makes anyone in their right mind think that MCW as a Buck will be anything like MCW was as a 76er?

[Dat2U]

Dragic's for two first rounders? Dragic's never averaged over 14 PPG before last season. More in the 7-10 category.

Not a fan of that guy. He's not horrible, but he's also not young. If Wade wasn't (not) playing on just one leg and Bosh wasn't a 3 point shooting center I'd be more impressed.

End of the day they are Dragic/Deng/Bosh/Ike Austin...err Whiteside. Oh god please don't trade for Whiteside Ernie.

Whiteside is putting up Dwight Howard type numbers in his prime and is playing like a dominant defensive C... why wouldn't anyone not want that guy on your team?

I don't understand the Ike Austin comparison, other than playing for Miami, the two have nothing in common.

5th year journeyman type, comes out of nowhere to average 15 points, 10 rebounds for Miami. I see a similarity.

It's a Linsanity or Ike Austin scenario waiting to happen.

Journeyman types aren't game changers. Whiteside is playing like a game changer. Like one of the elite players in the league. This is definitely not a Ike Austin or Jeremy Lin situation. You can count on zero fingers the number of Cs currently playing better than him right now.

Did you see what Whiteside did against the DeAndre Jordan/Blake Griffin front line a few weeks back? 23 & 16 in 28 minutes. Who does that against one of the biggest & best front lines in the league? Definitely not any journeyman types.

[Ruzious]

Austin was a limited player who had a weight problem for most - if not all - of his career. Whiteside is a gifted player who looks in great shape - he's definitely not fat.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Man the bucks could be really scary next year if every one is healthy.

An interesting post on the Jason Kidd effect by Bucks forum poster Serge:

Bucks players under Kidd this season:

Dudley - career-high (8 seasons) TS% of 62.0%
Henson - career-high TS% of 58.2%
Middleton - career-high TS% of 57.4%
Marshall - career-high TS% of 56.2%
Knight - career-high TS% of 55.6%
Bayless - 2nd best career (7 seasons) TS% of 55.1%
Giannis - improved his TS% from 51.8% to 56.4%
Ersan - injured
JOB - rookie
Parker - rookie
Larry - high

Mayo and Zaza are the only exceptions here.

What makes anyone in their right mind think that MCW as a Buck will be anything like MCW was as a 76er?

One thing to consider/keep in mind is that most of these guys are YOUNG, and young players often improve. And, it's worth considering how big a change we're seeing.

That said, I'm dubious that TS% is the most useful stat for this kind of thing. eFG might get more at Kidd's coaching, and whether or not his sets are actually getting his players better shots. The best stat, I think, would be offensive rating, which looks at total offensive efficiency, including shooting from the field, assists, offensive rebounding, free throw shooting, and turnovers.

So...

Code: Select all

PLAYER          ORTG    PREV HI CAREER
Dudley          122     124     116
Henson          109     106     106
Middleton       111     111     108
Marshall        104     101     100
Knight          105     104     101
Bayless         106     110     105
Giannis         106     99      102
Mayo            102     110     104
Pachulia        101     113     107


ORTG = player's points per 100 possessions so far this season
PREV HI = player's career best before this season
CAREER = player's career average

As I look at the numbers, I don't see a significant effect. Guys seem to mostly be performing within range of their career norms, with some of the younger guys improving.

[fishercob]

So Portland gave up their '16 pick (lotto protected), Will Barton, and expirings for Arron Afflalo.

Would you have wanted the Wizards to make a similar trade?

Given that Afflalo can walk after the season, I'm pleased that Ernie didn't spend a first round pick to make a band-aid move like this. We're not close enough that a guy like Afflalo would put us over the top. What we need is to finally make some of these picks count. We need more good, young players.

[Ruzious]

So Portland gave up their '16 pick (lotto protected), Will Barton, and expirings for Arron Afflalo.

Would you have wanted the Wizards to make a similar trade?

Given that Afflalo can walk after the season, I'm pleased that Ernie didn't spend a first round pick to make a band-aid move like this. We're not close enough that a guy like Afflalo would put us over the top. What we need is to finally make some of these picks count. We need more good, young players.

That's a glass half full. Portland overpaid, and I'm glad the Wiz stayed away from a 1 year rental type deal.

[Induveca]

I agree with Dat -- any comparison between Whiteside and Austin is superficial. What Whiteside is doing is MILES better than what Austin did. Even in his good year with the Heat, Austin was right about the league average in production. It was a pleasant surprise to be sure, but he wasn't exceptional.

Whiteside, on the other hand, has been dominant this year. He's been one of the league's best rebounders. He's been very good on defense. About the only real knock on him so far is that he fouls too much.

Now, he's played only 489 minutes so far this season, so we're still looking at a fairly small sample size. There's likely going to be some regression to the mean with him. But what he's done so far is WAY better than what Austin ever did.

Don't disagree, just stating the obvious he's barely played suddenly has a pretty dominant stretch......but as you stated its only been the equivalent of a little over 10 full games minutes wise.

That being said he'll get even more time now. Looks like Bosh out for season.

[LyricalRico]

Wow, KG getting an extension?

Jerry Zgoda: Some intel gathered: Wolves & KG are not considering this a 29-game thing. Both sides fully intend he'll play at least next season too Twitter @JerryZgoda - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.68vY2gef.dpuf

Jon Krawczynski: AP Source: The Timberwolves are not bringing KG back for just this year. They want to do a 2-year extension with him. Twitter @APkrawczynski - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.68vY2gef.dpuf

KG still can play defense and rebound.

And he doesn't need the ball. He can play 20 minutes for another year or two IMO.

Yeah, but still - it's tough to remember him as the Big Ticket and then basically see him becoming the next Kevin Willis (plays forever because he stays in great shape, but is only a bit player) before our eyes.

Hey, it's his life and he'll be handsomely paid for continuing to do what he loves. More power to him. I just would NEVER have predicted that his career would take this turn right before the end.

[Dat2U]

So Portland gave up their '16 pick (lotto protected), Will Barton, and expirings for Arron Afflalo.

Would you have wanted the Wizards to make a similar trade?

Given that Afflalo can walk after the season, I'm pleased that Ernie didn't spend a first round pick to make a band-aid move like this. We're not close enough that a guy like Afflalo would put us over the top. What we need is to finally make some of these picks count. We need more good, young players.

Agreed I would have hated an Afflalo type move. Isaiah Thomas is really the only guy I was willing to sacrifice a pick for. A. Because he's so productive. B. He's under control for 3 more years. C. He's got a declining salary... IMO he was too good a player to pass up.

Beyond that, the 2015 draft looks really really strong and deep. I think there's likely to be a handful of guys that will be around where we draft who will turn out pretty darn good. Too bad I have zero faith in Ernie to pick one of them.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, this is definitely not a year to throw away a draft pick around 20 - 22. A 15 year old picking out of a basketball magazine could choose a good player this year, so Ernie's got a chance.

[FAH1223]

On offense, Garnett has the profile of a middling small forward. Incredibly, more than half of his shots this season have come from the area 16 feet out to the three-point line. He remains an above-average marksman from that distance — 47.8 percent. But having your seven-footer launching long two-pointers is an inefficient offensive tactic in the modern NBA, though (unfortunately) it’s right in Saunders’ wheelhouse.

Otherwise, KG is a relatively poor shooter in the restricted area near the hoop (50 percent), from 3-10 feet away (40 percent) and from three-point range (16.7 percent).

http://www.minnpost.com/sports/2015/02/ ... in-garnett
Hiring Flip was the 2nd worst thing we could have did in 2009 after trading the pick.

This offense sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks!

[hands11]

Man the bucks could be really scary next year if every one is healthy.

An interesting post on the Jason Kidd effect by Bucks forum poster Serge:

Bucks players under Kidd this season:

Dudley - career-high (8 seasons) TS% of 62.0%
Henson - career-high TS% of 58.2%
Middleton - career-high TS% of 57.4%
Marshall - career-high TS% of 56.2%
Knight - career-high TS% of 55.6%
Bayless - 2nd best career (7 seasons) TS% of 55.1%
Giannis - improved his TS% from 51.8% to 56.4%
Ersan - injured
JOB - rookie
Parker - rookie
Larry - high

Mayo and Zaza are the only exceptions here.

What makes anyone in their right mind think that MCW as a Buck will be anything like MCW was as a 76er?

And that right there is the effect a good coach can have on a team. You rarely get to see it so clearly but yeah. Jason is doing a good job. To bad we don't have him.

Look at the effect Steve Kerr has had on GSW. And this is just his first year. SVG would have be awesome to have hear and tone of fun to watch losing his mind on the sideline.

But yeah.. Kidd and Kerr are two nice new additions to the coaching ranks. They should be around a while.

[nate33]

Man the bucks could be really scary next year if every one is healthy.

An interesting post on the Jason Kidd effect by Bucks forum poster Serge:

Bucks players under Kidd this season:

Dudley - career-high (8 seasons) TS% of 62.0%
Henson - career-high TS% of 58.2%
Middleton - career-high TS% of 57.4%
Marshall - career-high TS% of 56.2%
Knight - career-high TS% of 55.6%
Bayless - 2nd best career (7 seasons) TS% of 55.1%
Giannis - improved his TS% from 51.8% to 56.4%
Ersan - injured
JOB - rookie
Parker - rookie
Larry - high

Mayo and Zaza are the only exceptions here.

What makes anyone in their right mind think that MCW as a Buck will be anything like MCW was as a 76er?

And that right there is the effect a good coach can have on a team. You rarely get to see it so clearly but yeah. Jason is doing a good job. To bad we don't have him.

Look at the effect Steve Kerr has had on GSW. And this is just his first year. SVG would have be awesome to have hear and tone of fun to watch losing his mind on the sideline.

But yeah.. Kidd and Kerr are two nice new additions to the coaching ranks. They should be around a while.

Hornacek too. And there's Budenholzer in Atlanta. Also Stevens in Boston. There have been a bunch of really good coaches added to the league in the last couple of seasons. Too bad we didn't get one of them.

[gambitx777]

Thats part of what I meant. that staff with that team if healthy will be flat out scary next year!

[miller31time]

Isaiah Thomas absolutely beasting tonight vs. the Lakers. He got ejected with a few minutes to go for complaining but still, he's looked great.

And he could have been in a Wizards jersey doing this.