Political Roundtable Part XXI

[stilldropin20]

From the same leftist main stream fake media that brought us the fake dossier brought us this garbage too. You dogshxt liars. What is wrong with you??? Why are you guys lying so much? literally about everything.

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oh yeah...that Bought and paid for dossier!!!

what a joke!!! Seems like 30 years ago that our FBI under Obama's leadership used a bought and paid cooked up opposition research for a FISA warrant on the next president of the united states to destroy him politically by leaking it early and often to a complicit media to undermine his presidency.

and you wonder why he has a chip on his shoulder against both democrats, Obama, Comey, mccabe, strzok, and the media??? really??

[stilldropin20]

the little boys crying Nazi should watch this.

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[stilldropin20]

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[stilldropin20]

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[stilldropin20]

ya know i'm reminded...all these hypocrit bullshxt artists like Zonker support mid, late terms and partial birth abortions.

You are not human rights activists. You are just leftists. your seek power at all costs. no matter the costs.

[stilldropin20]

oh god. seriously!! you libtards even lied about that!!?? At this point, you guys have basically lied about everything. Have you told us one single truth in the last 2 years? Anything??

At this point, just stahp

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[Pointgod]

This has gone beyond the point of political disagreement. We are now at the point where we disagree on the very basics of right and wrong and the type of society we want to be. Here's the bottom line. I find nate, SD20 and people like them to be morally bankrupt, unapologetic hypocrites and just reprehensible human beings. Not going to sugar coat it. I'm done debating with them. So my progressive friends....vote vote vote. If there is one party that is incompetent enough to screw up this election it's the democrats. We will have to save them from themselves. Vote! Trump conservatism is destined for the ash heap of history.

Thanks for saying this. All this politeness in the name of "discourse" is complete bull. You can't actually try to reason with someone like SD20 or Nate because they aren't arguing from a position of honesty. They're morally bankrupt little toads that only want to keep repeating their idiotic talking points instead of listening to the other side of an argument.

[Zonkerbl]

I can guarantee based on my interactions with you that my life is a lot more stable, happy and well-adjusted than yours.

Because I actually feel empathy for people who suffer. Sucks to not be a sociopath. Wait, no it doesn't.

You really are quite amazing. Non-stop emoting without reasonably discussing any topic. You contribute nothing to this board but comic relief.

It's necessary to counter your constant stream of lies and hate.

I'm not going to engage you in policy debate because you don't deserve it. You have zero credibility.

I don't need to defend my integrity. I'll let my record in this thread speak for itself.

[Zonkerbl]

There isn't an immigration problem in this country that is any different from the same immigration problem we've had the last thirty years. We haven't done anything about it so we're apparently fine with the status quo, except for a few spittle-flecked racist lunatics.

We have a capitalism problem in this country. Economic growth is good only if it makes everybody better off - it doesn't. It makes the winners better off than the losers, so in theory the winners could pay off the losers and everybody would be better off. But that doesn't happen, so we've got the situation we have now where a small percentage of the population is better off and everybody else gets screwed. We're the *only* developed country that lets this happen.

We also have a stupidity/racism problem in this country. We've had a stupid and racist war on drugs since Reagan that has, among other awful things, destabilized central american countries, creating a humanitarian crisis and a flood of refugees to our border. Every white person in this country has contributed to this problem, including the liberals.

If we spread the wealth created by technology more evenly we won't have uneducated white folks flipping out and getting manipulated by the wealthy into directing their hate at immigrants. If we end the war on drugs we can begin a decades long process of repairing the damage we've done to the countries in Central America so we don't have so many refugees coming here.

I'm not going to engage in a policy discussion about how to make immigration policy more restrictive because it's a complete red herring. I'll be happy to talk about making the system more humane and orderly.

[gtn130]

There isn't an immigration problem in this country that is any different from the same immigration problem we've had the last thirty years. We haven't done anything about it so we're apparently fine with the status quo, except for a few spittle-flecked racist lunatics.

We have a capitalism problem in this country. Economic growth is good only if it makes everybody better off - it doesn't. It makes the winners better off than the losers, so in theory the winners could pay off the losers and everybody would be better off. But that doesn't happen, so we've got the situation we have now where a small percentage of the population is better off and everybody else gets screwed. We're the *only* developed country that let's this happen.

We also have a stupidity/racism problem in this country. We've had a stupid and racist war on drugs since Reagan that has, among other awful things, destabilized central american countries, creating a humanitarian crisis and a flood of refugees to our border. Every white person in this country has contributed to this problem, including the liberals.

If we spread the wealth created by technology more evenly we won't have uneducated white folks flipping out and getting manipulated by the wealthy into directing their hate at immigrants. If we end the war on drugs we can begin a decades long process of repairing the damage we've done to the countries in Central America so we don't have so many refugees coming here.

I'm not going to engage in a policy discussion about how to make immigration policy more restrictive because it's a complete red herring. I'll be happy to talk about making the system more humane and orderly.

great post

[verbal8]

Not good news for Trump.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/22/politics/impeach-trump-nixon-support-bill-clinton-poll/index.html

[nate33]

I think we should charge the wealthiest 1% a 20% wealth tax and redistribute it to the lowest 40% and then white trash won't have to fight with immigrants over the scraps the 1% leaves them.

Watch how fast the wealthy and their corporations move overseas. A 20% wealth tax is a communist's dream, but there's a reason why it has never been successfully implemented. C'mon, you're an economist. You know better. Perhaps a 1% of 2% wealth tax is theoretically possible because the advantages of living in America outweigh the costs, but higher rates like that will drive capital flight.

[Zonkerbl]

I think we should charge the wealthiest 1% a 20% wealth tax and redistribute it to the lowest 40% and then white trash won't have to fight with immigrants over the scraps the 1% leaves them.

Watch how fast the wealthy and their corporations move overseas. A 20% wealth tax is a communist's dream, but there's a reason why it has never been successfully implemented. C'mon, you're an economist. You know better. Perhaps a 1% of 2% wealth tax is theoretically possible because the advantages of living in America outweigh the costs, but higher rates like that will drive capital flight.

I agree with you, it's why we should only do it once. Should've been clearer. But it needs to be done. Maybe we'll have to consider doing it again in a few decades but yeah, you don't want to make it a habit or it becomes an incentive problem.

You're confusing communism and socialism. There's lots of socialism going on in Europe and Europe is arguably doing much better than we are at the moment, except for their stupid experiment trying to have a unified currency. Ugh.

Martin Ravallion gave a talk at MCC the other day and showed that the poorest of the poor in the US are getting poorer over time. We are the only country in the world where that happens.

[nate33]

There isn't an immigration problem in this country that is any different from the same immigration problem we've had the last thirty years. We haven't done anything about it so we're apparently fine with the status quo, except for a few spittle-flecked racist lunatics.

In the past 30 years, the poverty rate in California has climbed from one of the lowest in the country to the highest.

We have a capitalism problem in this country. Economic growth is good only if it makes everybody better off - it doesn't. It makes the winners better off than the losers, so in theory the winners could pay off the losers and everybody would be better off. But that doesn't happen, so we've got the situation we have now where a small percentage of the population is better off and everybody else gets screwed. We're the *only* developed country that lets this happen.

Yet everyone wants to come here.

We also have a stupidity/racism problem in this country. We've had a stupid and racist war on drugs since Reagan that has, among other awful things, destabilized central american countries, creating a humanitarian crisis and a flood of refugees to our border. Every white person in this country has contributed to this problem, including the liberals.

Better border enforcement and a wall would significantly improve the drug trade problem.

If we spread the wealth created by technology more evenly we won't have uneducated white folks flipping out and getting manipulated by the wealthy into directing their hate at immigrants. If we end the war on drugs we can begin a decades long process of repairing the damage we've done to the countries in Central America so we don't have so many refugees coming here.

I agree on the drug war issue. I'm not for legalizing all drugs (marijuana, perhaps) but I think it's wrong that we focus so much on drug distributors and not on drug users. Let's attack the root of the problem. But the wealth distribution problem isn't so easy. Welfare benefits are already near record highs. The problem is wage growth of low-wage industries, and that is exacerbated by immigration and one-sided trade deals where other countries charge tariffs and we don't.

[dckingsfan]

The reason that California's poverty rate is climbing is because of a housing shortage. And that housing shortage wasn't due to immigration, it was due to water rights, environmental issues, zoning, etc., etc.

And there is ZERO chance that the drug problem would be reduced with a wall. The wall wouldn't stretch the entirety of the border. It "might" be effective for immigration - but not for drug trafficking.

And the war on drugs and tough on crime is literally bankrupting our state governments.

And yet we want more of the same? Sigh.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Watch how fast the wealthy and their corporations move overseas. A 20% wealth tax is a communist's dream, but there's a reason why it has never been successfully implemented. C'mon, you're an economist. You know better. Perhaps a 1% of 2% wealth tax is theoretically possible because the advantages of living in America outweigh the costs, but higher rates like that will drive capital flight.

Here's the thing, yes, they will fly. I think Zonk clearly realizes there needs to be more nuance to what he's proposing. But there also needs to be to what you're proposing, too, because if we don't come up with creative, and potentially harsh solutions now, we're going to pay for it later. When automation starts really destroying jobs, and that automation is owned by those who have ultimately paid a smaller % in taxes than lower income earners, then what? Suddenly capital flight because an end-game where countries are just taking what scraps they can get from anywhere.

Ultimately, the best I can come up with is just flat taxing them and denying them the American market if they refuse to pay it. If they don't pay it, somebody will. You've argued for isolationism in the past, but I think you've got the ideas backwards for a modern world. This isn't about isolating against the poor everywhere in the world, it's about isolating corporate expansion and monopolistic/anti-competitive behavior. You only have to look at oil-producing countries as examples. Norway taxed (or de facto taxed - they have a 27% corporation tax, and a 51% resource extraction tax for a combined 78% tax thereupon) oil production to the hilt. Oil companies still went there anyway because there were still profits to be made, and the result was that Norway was absolutely swimming in money and as they looked for was to move out of oil once the world started showing signs of doing the same. Now look at Canada. Canada got into the oil game at about the same time, didn't tax nearly so heavily, and they wound up with a LOT less to show for it in the end. If there are profits to be made, someone will do it. It doesn't mean go wild and tax everything at outrageous amounts, or that we shouldn't cut taxes in certain places and only increase them, but it does mean that allowing fear to cloud reason is a dangerous game, and one that has been exploited by corporate giants for some time. Amazon holds competitions amongst cities to see who's going to get the privilege of having them move there? That kind of BS is going to destroy cities in the long run.

[dckingsfan]

Not good news for Trump.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/22/politics/impeach-trump-nixon-support-bill-clinton-poll/index.html

I find this to be click bait. News to excite. This just takes us down the us vs. them rabbit hole.

How did you feel when they wanted to impeach Clinton?

[gtn130]

There is zero evidence that the wall would be a net positive in solving border issues like drug trafficking or illegal immigration

[Zonkerbl]

There isn't an immigration problem in this country that is any different from the same immigration problem we've had the last thirty years. We haven't done anything about it so we're apparently fine with the status quo, except for a few spittle-flecked racist lunatics.

In the past 30 years, the poverty rate in California has climbed from one of the lowest in the country to the highest.

We have a capitalism problem in this country. Economic growth is good only if it makes everybody better off - it doesn't. It makes the winners better off than the losers, so in theory the winners could pay off the losers and everybody would be better off. But that doesn't happen, so we've got the situation we have now where a small percentage of the population is better off and everybody else gets screwed. We're the *only* developed country that lets this happen.

Yet everyone wants to come here.

We also have a stupidity/racism problem in this country. We've had a stupid and racist war on drugs since Reagan that has, among other awful things, destabilized central american countries, creating a humanitarian crisis and a flood of refugees to our border. Every white person in this country has contributed to this problem, including the liberals.

Better border enforcement and a wall would significantly improve the drug trade problem.

If we spread the wealth created by technology more evenly we won't have uneducated white folks flipping out and getting manipulated by the wealthy into directing their hate at immigrants. If we end the war on drugs we can begin a decades long process of repairing the damage we've done to the countries in Central America so we don't have so many refugees coming here.

I agree on the drug war issue. I'm not for legalizing all drugs (marijuana, perhaps) but I think it's wrong that we focus so much on drug distributors and not on drug users. Let's attack the root of the problem. But the wealth distribution problem isn't so easy. Welfare benefits are already near record highs. The problem is wage growth of low-wage industries, and that is exacerbated by immigration and one-sided trade deals where other countries charge tariffs and we don't.

C'mon Nate, really? You really think we haven't done everything possible already to secure the border that doesn't involve fascist terrorism techniques? You really think plugging up holes in the dike is how you prevent the tsunami?

Economically I'm agnostic about legalizing heroin and cocaine, but I think from a national security standpoint it's a no-brainer - our prohibition of heroin is why the Taliban exists. Every moment we keep cocaine and heroin illegal, more money goes into terrorists' pockets in Asia, and drug cartels in central america, making more economic refugees that end up fleeing here. And it's not like making heroin illegal has prevented us from having a massive opioid epidemic. The height of insanity is to try the same wrong solution over and over again and expect different results.

Yeah everyone wants to come here, we have the best universities in the world. The high skilled immigration that results is very good for the tech field, and like I've argued before we get the best entrepreneurial talent Central America has to offer coming over the southern border. Entrepreneurs create jobs, we should be helping them get engaged in the economy as soon as possible to reduce the transition costs as much as possible. And as long as the economic gains the high skilled and new entrepreneurs help bring to our economy are shared then everybody is better off. One thing we can do to make the transition easier is for everyone to learn to speak Spanish and adopt Spanish as an official second language nationwide and teach it in schools to non-native Spanish speakers.

Let's judo this mfer - let's turn this "problem" into a solution.

[dckingsfan]

@Zonk and your proposal:

One thing we can do to make the transition easier is for everyone to learn to speak Spanish and adopt Spanish as an official second language nationwide and teach it in schools to non-native Spanish speakers.

This is very good for more than the reason you cite:
1) We are looked upon as a backward country that only speaks one language
2) Knowing Spanish would allow us to trade with South America on a more equal basis like we do with Europe
3) We might be able to get South American countries to do the same with English as a second language

And there are a host of other great reasons - like kids that adopt a second language earlier also do better in the sciences.