Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[nate33]

I just dont see the archetype for a player like him to be a top 2 player on a playoff team. He is not Durant-lite or Tatum... he is a Tobias Harris/Jabari Parker combo foward... and even the best versions of those guys are NOT worth Bradley F'n Beal.

I think there's a Kevin Durant quality to his shot in that he can get it off at will with a defender right in his face. He's just so tall with such a high release, and he makes them. It's unguardable.

There is plenty of risk given his low bball IQ and poor defense, but there is some serious upside there. As I said, I don't think he is worth Beal, but if we're forced to make a deal, I think a package with MPJ is likely to be better than most other offers. And I'd demand another first round pick instead of Zubak. So it's MPJ and two firsts.

[payitforward]

Wizards trade: Beal, Wagner
Wizards receive: Porter Jr., Harris, Zubac, #22 pick

Clippers trade: George, Shamet, Zubac
Clippers receive: Beal, Wagner, Barton

Nuggets trade: Porter Jr, Harris, Barton, #22 pick
Nuggets receive: George, Shamet

Wall/Haliburton/Smith
Harris/Brown/Robinson/#22 pick
MPJ/Bonga
Hachimura/Schofield#/22 pick
Bryant/Zubac

Not bad. Trading Beal for MPJ and picks is something I've considered to be a "floor" in any forced Beal trade. We should at least get that, and probably more. I like how you included the Clippers to get a true SF in Paul George to Denver and Beal to LA.

Instead of getting Zubac back, I'd prefer a future 1st. And the Clippers would probably prefer to keep Zubac. I'd try and tweak it to make that happen.

Ultimately, I wouldn't do this deal unless Beal forced our hand. But it's certainly better than letting Beal walk or trading him for 50 cents on the dollar.

I suppose all 3-team trades are exercises in speculation, but I have a hard time believing Denver would be interested in this trade. Paul George is a wonderful player, of course, but MPJ is already so good & has such a high ceiling that I can't believe they'd have any interest in this trade.

nate -- I'm more interested in your idea of a direct trade around Beal/MPJ.

But, I think that you too may be under-valuing MPJ. Now, maybe b/c he came off injury, has only played 900 minutes, etc., it's me over-valuing him. But... I don't think so.

[payitforward]

Hmmm, OTOH, I also get pcbothwei's thinking here.

...Uhhh... Am I missing something. Gary Harris is a below average backup SG that makes 20M each of the next two years... he is negative value... So you are pegging Beals value as a MPJ?

I understand his pedigree as a prep player and he shot the ball very well in the playoffs... but do you not see the injury history, poor vision, inability to draw fouls and below average defense as glaring red flags?

He is the antithesis of someone like Jimmy Butler. Defense aside, i dont even see the offensive potential. If his shot isnt dropping, how does he contribute as he doesnt draw fouls or create.

I just dont see the archetype for a player like him to be a top 2 player on a playoff team. He is not Durant-lite or Tatum... he is a Tobias Harris/Jabari Parker combo foward... and even the best versions of those guys are NOT worth Bradley F'n Beal.

I'd be interested in what you two think would be a fair trade for Bradley Beal.

Doesn't have to be practical. For simplicity, how about this: Bradley Beal for...

The #1 pick in next year's draft plus... what player?

Or, Bradley Beal for...

What single player in the league, plus what single pick in the draft?

[nate33]

nate -- I'm more interested in your idea of a direct trade around Beal/MPJ.

It's basically Beal for MPJ + Harris + Monte Morris + whatever future picks we can get.

A trade could probably get more workable after they've filled out their roster with low cost vets so that they wouldn't have to include Monte Morris, whom I assume they value as a backup PG.

[pcbothwel]

Hmmm, OTOH, I also get pcbothwei's thinking here.

...Uhhh... Am I missing something. Gary Harris is a below average backup SG that makes 20M each of the next two years... he is negative value... So you are pegging Beals value as a MPJ?

I understand his pedigree as a prep player and he shot the ball very well in the playoffs... but do you not see the injury history, poor vision, inability to draw fouls and below average defense as glaring red flags?

He is the antithesis of someone like Jimmy Butler. Defense aside, i dont even see the offensive potential. If his shot isnt dropping, how does he contribute as he doesnt draw fouls or create.

I just dont see the archetype for a player like him to be a top 2 player on a playoff team. He is not Durant-lite or Tatum... he is a Tobias Harris/Jabari Parker combo foward... and even the best versions of those guys are NOT worth Bradley F'n Beal.

I'd be interested in what you two think would be a fair trade for Bradley Beal.

Doesn't have to be practical. For simplicity, how about this: Bradley Beal for...

The #1 pick in next year's draft plus... what player?

Or, Bradley Beal for...

What single player in the league, plus what single pick in the draft?

This is tough, because you have to take into account the both teams... not just the players/picks moving.
Im not trading Beal until the deadline, so it rules this draft out... but I'll table that for this discussion.

GSW : Wiggins, 2, and 2021 TWolves 1st would be near the top for me.
Along with a resigned Bertans, this puts our highest paid 3 players (~85M/Yr) all on 3 year deals that allow us to build a roster deep with prospects hitting their early-mid 20's in 2023 when the cap would be climbing back up and we'd have 2 max spots. I want to see what Minny does with their pick this year, but if they dont trade it for a star and instead take Edwards... Im all over their 2021 pick as I think they collapse due to poor leadership, BBIQ, and Defense.

Magic: While they have no premier asset, I see their 2021/2023 pick as valuable as I dont trust their franchise. I could see them being desperate to get over the hump and having some confidence that they could resign Beal so that they could send us numerous picks swaps/unprotected picks.

Hornets: See Magic. I dont trust their Franchise, so their future picks look high and I could see them talking themselves into giving up the assets.

I dont see the Cavs or Detroit having the confidence in resigning Beal, so they wont give up enough. And I dont trust big market teams like the Bulls and Knicks to stay bad as they have young pieces, picks, and cap space to put a good enough team around Beal to win 45 games and make the pick mediocre. Same goes for Atlanta... too much talent and flexibility to bet on them failing.

As far players... I could be talked into Simmons, but he now has a knee injury that shouldn't be ignored and had back/nerve issues last year. That, along with questionable shooting and leadership would require additional assets.


In conclusion, the GSW package would work best (Or three way deal with LAC and PG13 going to GSW). Point is, I'd want those two picks. Ideally, I would move the 2nd pick for more future assets. Goal is to be the top destination in 3 years with a strong FO, multiple young player on rookie contracts, and a ton of cap space.

[nate33]

This is tough, because you have to take into account the both teams... not just the players/picks moving.
Im not trading Beal until the deadline, so it rules this draft out... but I'll table that for this discussion.

GSW : Wiggins, 2, and 2021 TWolves 1st would be near the top for me.
Along with a resigned Bertans, this puts our highest paid 3 players (~85M/Yr) all on 3 year deals that allow us to build a roster deep with prospects hitting their early-mid 20's in 2023 when the cap would be climbing back up and we'd have 2 max spots. I want to see what Minny does with their pick this year, but if they dont trade it for a star and instead take Edwards... Im all over their 2021 pick as I think they collapse due to poor leadership, BBIQ, and Defense.

I think you are underestimating the negative value of Wiggins' contract. Wiggins is a really bad basketball player under contract at $32M a year for the next 3 years. It would take at least that Minny 2021 pick just to absorb that contract. So basically, you are trading Beal for the #2 in an historically weak draft. That's a bad deal.

[TGW]

Wiggins and the number 2/Minny 1st for Beal is awful. Wiggins is a dealbreaker. Wiseman is not a franchise calibe big man. The minny pick is equivalent to the Memphis pick this year. Celtics fans were acting like it was the most valuable asset ever until it got conveyed and turned into the #14 pick in a weak draft.

[payitforward]

nate/pcbothwei -- I think you may have misunderstood my questions of you. Or else you may not think them worth answering, because they are too abstract. Or, most likely, because I didn't frame them clearly, so let me try again.

I'm interested in knowing what you see as Beal's actual value. Hence...

1. Forgetting about who owns what pick or player, given that we were to trade Beal for the #1 pick next year plus one & only one additional player -- who would that player have to be in order for that combination to be worth Brad Beal?

The answer to that question will be the name of a single NBA player. Thus, "Anthony Davis" would be an answer. "Shai Gilgeous-Alexander" would be an answer. "TJ Warren" would be an answer. I'm not suggesting that any of those would be your answer. But, anything other than the name of a single player will not answer this particular question.

2. Alternatively: what single NBA player plus what single pick in next year's draft would combine to be worth Brad Beal? An answer to this question might be "Anthony Davis & the #60 pick." I.e. the name of one player & the number of one pick -- that & only that. The combination does not have to be "practical," but anything other than 1 name plus 1 number is not an answer to my question of you.

Please do not take into account the needs of any other team, what would be a trade that could actually be made, or any other issue at all: just value.

[Ruzious]

Wizards trade: Beal, Wagner
Wizards receive: Porter Jr., Harris, Zubac, #22 pick

Clippers trade: George, Shamet, Zubac
Clippers receive: Beal, Wagner, Barton

Nuggets trade: Porter Jr, Harris, Barton, #22 pick
Nuggets receive: George, Shamet

Wall/Haliburton/Smith
Harris/Brown/Robinson/#22 pick
MPJ/Bonga
Hachimura/Schofield#/22 pick
Bryant/Zubac

Not bad. Trading Beal for MPJ and picks is something I've considered to be a "floor" in any forced Beal trade. We should at least get that, and probably more. I like how you included the Clippers to get a true SF in Paul George to Denver and Beal to LA.

Instead of getting Zubac back, I'd prefer a future 1st. And the Clippers would probably prefer to keep Zubac. I'd try and tweak it to make that happen.

Ultimately, I wouldn't do this deal unless Beal forced our hand. But it's certainly better than letting Beal walk or trading him for 50 cents on the dollar.

Uhhh... Am I missing something. Gary Harris is a below average backup SG that makes 20M each of the next two years... he is negative value... So you are pegging Beals value as a MPJ? He has all-star potential.

I understand his pedigree as a prep player and he shot the ball very well in the playoffs... but do you not see the injury history, poor vision, inability to draw fouls and below average defense as glaring red flags?

He is the antithesis of someone like Jimmy Butler. Defense aside, i dont even see the offensive potential. If his shot isnt dropping, how does he contribute as he doesnt draw fouls or create.

I just dont see the archetype for a player like him to be a top 2 player on a playoff team. He is not Durant-lite or Tatum... he is a Tobias Harris/Jabari Parker combo foward... and even the best versions of those guys are NOT worth Bradley F'n Beal.

Why not Will Barton instead of Gary Harris? MPJ and Barton salaries are a lot less than Beal's but the trade works because Denver's under the cap. MPJ, Barton, and the 22nd pick for Beal, and we save a bunch of money - not that it's enough to get us under the cap, but it'll encourage them to spend some. Sign Noel instead of trying to squeeze Zubac from them. Instead, try to get a future unprotected pick from them - maybe their 2025 pick.

MPJ's 3 point shooting, rebounding, and length put him at least a tier ahead of Tobias and pre-ACL's Parker, but I do worry about his intangibles - he doesn't seem like a real bright guy on and off the court. Then again, he's 21.

[doclinkin]

nate/pcbothwei -- I think you may have misunderstood my questions of you. Or else you may not think them worth answering, because they are too abstract. Or, most likely, because I didn't frame them clearly, so let me try again.

I'm interested in knowing what you see as Beal's actual value. Hence...

1. Forgetting about who owns what pick or player, given that we were to trade Beal for the #1 pick next year plus one & only one additional player -- who would that player have to be in order for that combination to be worth Brad Beal?

The answer to that question will be the name of a single NBA player. Thus, "Anthony Davis" would be an answer. "Shai Gilgeous-Alexander" would be an answer. "TJ Warren" would be an answer. I'm not suggesting that any of those would be your answer. But, anything other than the name of a single player will not answer this particular question.

2. Alternatively: what single NBA player plus what single pick in next year's draft would combine to be worth Brad Beal? An answer to this question might be "Anthony Davis & the #60 pick." I.e. the name of one player & the number of one pick -- that & only that. The combination does not have to be "practical," but anything other than 1 name plus 1 number is not an answer to my question of you.

Please do not take into account the needs of any other team, what would be a trade that could actually be made, or any other issue at all: just value.

In short, what is the equivalent player value for Brad. Solo or player plus pick. Who=Brad or Who+1=Brad.

I understand the question, but in my head it translates into "what is the 'Godfather' offer?" at which we would have to say, yeah, fair value.

[doclinkin]

I think at this point, given age and peak of career, Brad Beal is at about the equivalent level of Paul George plus a late first.

But I'd listen to a Brandon Clarke plus-a-pick swap just to shut up certain arguments around here

[pcbothwel]

nate/pcbothwei -- I think you may have misunderstood my questions of you. Or else you may not think them worth answering, because they are too abstract. Or, most likely, because I didn't frame them clearly, so let me try again.

I'm interested in knowing what you see as Beal's actual value. Hence...

1. Forgetting about who owns what pick or player, given that we were to trade Beal for the #1 pick next year plus one & only one additional player -- who would that player have to be in order for that combination to be worth Brad Beal?

The answer to that question will be the name of a single NBA player. Thus, "Anthony Davis" would be an answer. "Shai Gilgeous-Alexander" would be an answer. "TJ Warren" would be an answer. I'm not suggesting that any of those would be your answer. But, anything other than the name of a single player will not answer this particular question.

2. Alternatively: what single NBA player plus what single pick in next year's draft would combine to be worth Brad Beal? An answer to this question might be "Anthony Davis & the #60 pick." I.e. the name of one player & the number of one pick -- that & only that. The combination does not have to be "practical," but anything other than 1 name plus 1 number is not an answer to my question of you.

Please do not take into account the needs of any other team, what would be a trade that could actually be made, or any other issue at all: just value.

There are too many answers that would suffice. The 2021 #1 pick alone plus a another asset would probably suffice.

As far as players, it depends on if we were taking contract into account. Because contract, along with age and production, determine value... Ill assume so.

Embiid, Donovan Mitchell, SGA & Simmons are close enough...
Lillard is clearly better, but also older and that contract...oh boy. I'd say they are about the same too.
Jamal Murray wouldn't be enough and would need another asset/late lotto pick.... but Im also weary of his ceiling.
PG13, IMO, is not quite there due to being 3 years older, on an expiring deal, and is picking up poor reputation as a playoff performer and locker room presence.

[Dat2U]

My list in order

Ben Simmons
Joel Embiid
Jaylen Brown ++
Victor Oladipo & Domantas Sabonis
Jaren Jackson Jr ++
Michael Porter Jr, Monte Morris ++
Jonathan Issac, Aaron Gordon ++
Caris Levert, Jarrett Allen+++

[payitforward]

Using wall_glizzy's research (let's assume I understood it correctly) along with other facts about Myles Turner's activities on defense, & those of Thomas Bryant, I concluded earlier today that wall_glizzy was correct that Turner is the better defender.

As far as that research & those other facts are accurate, we can say that per 40 minutes, Myles Turner's defense has a positive impact on his team's chance to win compared to that of Thomas Bryant. I.e. because of his better defense, at the end of 40 minutes, the opposing team -- on average, obviously -- will have 1.4 fewer points than if Bryant had played those minutes.

This may seem like a small difference -- but it is not! Keep in mind that on the season, the Wizards as a team were -4.7 points per game to opponents, & that this led to a 25-47 season, a .347 record. Turner's better defense would significantly reduce that deficit. This difference alone might have made a quite noticeable difference in our record.

But, to integrate Turner's defensive superiority over Bryant into an overall comparison of the players' effect on game outcomes, we'll have to integrate a comparison of the two players' impact on offense as well as defense. Using the same assumptions about the impact of various activities that we used in assessing & comparing the two players on defense, I'll do the same in regard to the two of them on offense. To do otherwise would be unfair.

Obviously, a turnover hurts offense. Using the same rough average I employed earlier in which it takes roughly 2 possessions to produce 2 points, a single turnover, in effect, costs a single point on offense. Irrelevant in this case, as these two players commit exactly the same number of turnovers per 40 minutes. But you see my point, I hope.

Possibly a little harder to understand is the fact that every shot attempt also "costs" a single possession. Grosso modo, it takes @100 shots to produce 100 points. This is not exact, but it'll do the trick for now. Per 40 minutes, Bryant takes @1.6 more shots than Turner. The delta between them had been 1.4 points; now it is 3 points. Bryant also takes @.42 more FTAs. Because a single FTA can only produce 1 point (unlike a shot which can produce either 2 or 3 points) & because it's usually 2 FTs that equal a possession, a difference of 1 FTA between players is usually valued at @1/2 the cost of a difference of 1 FGA. Thus, Turner is now up @3.25 points.

& that's where it ends for Myles, because Bryant produces 4.83 more points from those 1.6 more shots & .42 more FTAs. With that alone, he's made up the deficit on defense & the deficit I'd recorded on offense to this point -- he's about 1.58 up on the combination.

But, there's more of course. Just as we looked at defensive rebounding & blocked shots as part of defense, so too we have to count offensive rebounds as an offensive asset -- each one gives you a possession & is therefore worth 1 point (in just the way we counted a steal as worth 1 on defense). Bryant gets 1.5 more of them than Turner is the 40 minute standard we are using.

Overall, to this point -- with both defense & offense being considered -- Bryant is delivering a delta of 3.08 points over what Turner delivers.

Thing is, we have to count assists as well, where Bryant is ahead of Turner by 1.4 per 40 minutes. Without explaining why, I'll just say that statistical regression analysis has determined that assists are worth .5 points each.

Thus, sadly for the convinced advocates of Myles Turner, who is in fact an extremely mediocre NBA player, Thomas Bryant is substantially superior to Myles. It's not close. Thus, the idea that acquiring Turner (for Bryant, Brown & the #9 pick no less!! Good God!!) would be "an enormous improvement" for the Washington Wizards is ridiculous. Laughable.

Of course, this analysis will be met with denial -- it's only ok to look at numbers when they confirm your prejudices. Complex FG% charts are fine if they show that Turner is a superior defender. But that kind of thing means nothing when it shows that Bryant is the better player. Right?

Yet, he is: Thomas Bryant is a better player by far than Myles Turner.

[pcbothwel]

This is tough, because you have to take into account the both teams... not just the players/picks moving.
Im not trading Beal until the deadline, so it rules this draft out... but I'll table that for this discussion.

GSW : Wiggins, 2, and 2021 TWolves 1st would be near the top for me.
Along with a resigned Bertans, this puts our highest paid 3 players (~85M/Yr) all on 3 year deals that allow us to build a roster deep with prospects hitting their early-mid 20's in 2023 when the cap would be climbing back up and we'd have 2 max spots. I want to see what Minny does with their pick this year, but if they dont trade it for a star and instead take Edwards... Im all over their 2021 pick as I think they collapse due to poor leadership, BBIQ, and Defense.

I think you are underestimating the negative value of Wiggins' contract. Wiggins is a really bad basketball player under contract at $32M a year for the next 3 years. It would take at least that Minny 2021 pick just to absorb that contract. So basically, you are trading Beal for the #2 in an historically weak draft. That's a bad deal.

Wiggins and the number 2/Minny 1st for Beal is awful. Wiggins is a dealbreaker. Wiseman is not a franchise calibe big man. The minny pick is equivalent to the Memphis pick this year. Celtics fans were acting like it was the most valuable asset ever until it got conveyed and turned into the #14 pick in a weak draft.

1) MIN 2021 pick: Its more valuable than the Memphis pick was. That Memphis pick was top 6 protected in a weak draft. The Minny pick is top 3 protected in a strong draft. Memphis appeared to have a strong FO that was building a strong culture of defense. They had savvy FA signings of young vets that played defense in Kyle Anderson, JJJ, Tyus Jones, Jae Crowder, and Valanciunas... and they just drafted Ja Morant and Clarke... anybody with foresight saw that team as feisty and competitive.

The Twolves have a fractured culture that just had a superstar demand out (Butler) and their two young players/cornerstones dont care about defense and have questionable work ethics. Their lotto pick last year, culver, appears to be completely overwhelmed and shots FT as an Olowokandi %. The solid defensive minded vets like Dieng and Covington have been shipped out in lieu of sieves like Malik Beasley... Adding in another low IQ AAU iso scorer that doesnt have a will to win like Anthony Edwards and I see them having a complete collapse.

2) Wiggins: Listen, I get that he is vastly overpaid.. But Wiggins just put up a per36 of 23 / 5 / 4 on a TS of 54% with 2 STOCKS and a 1.5 AST:TOV ratio. His problem is obvious, poor instincts (Especially defensively) and lack of Superstar mentality. But he is most certainly a rotational wing worth 10M+/year. Terrance Ross signed a 4/54M deal last year (13M per) and Im not seeing a real difference. I would say that the premium he is paid is about the same as Wall (15M+/year). If I'm rebuilding, this is the type of contract/player you look to take on as you are paid handsomely to do so, you get a productive young player with name recognition that will have some good games, and you could possibly flip him in two years when he is expiring to a contender.

3) GSW #2 Pick: I agree... I also think Wiseman is not a franchise changer (Though if he does hit, oh man). Nobody said we had to draft him, or Ball, or Edwards... #2 is an asset, but an interesting one. Even if the value wasnt as good as previous years, we could trade back for a team needing a splash (Knicks?) and garner more assets. I.E. 2 for 8, 27, Future protected 1st.
Draft Okongwu, Vassell, Bey, and Pritchard

Think about where our franchise would be at that point. We would have two top 8-10 picks in the 2021 Draft with our own and Minny. Two Lotto picks in 2022 with Our own and Knicks. And the following roster:

Wall / Pritchard
Vassell / Brown
Wiggins / Bonga / Bey
Rui / Bertans / Bey
Bryant / Okongwu

The Boston/Philly War chest is gone... we'd have better draft assets than anybody in the NBA, including OKC.. and potential for more if we move Bertans/Bryant over the following year or 2.

[TGW]

Wizards trade: Beal, Bonga, Smith
Wizards receive: Jaylen Brown, Turner, #14, #26

Celtics trade: Hayward, Brown, #14, #26
Celtics receive: Beal, Smith, Lamb

Pacers trade: Turner, Lamb
Pacers receive: Hayward

New lineup:

Wall/Napier/pick
J. Brown/Robinson/pick
T. Brown/Schofield/pick
Hachimura/Wagner
Turner/Bryant/pick

[nate33]

Wizards trade: Beal, Bonga, Smith
Wizards receive: Jaylen Brown, Turner, #14, #26

Celtics trade: Hayward, Brown, #14, #26
Celtics receive: Beal, Smith, Lamb

Pacers trade: Turner, Lamb
Pacers receive: Hayward

New lineup:

Wall/Napier/pick
J. Brown/Robinson/pick
T. Brown/Schofield/pick
Hachimura/Wagner
Turner/Bryant/pick

It's a pretty good haul for Beal. I'd do it.

Problem is, I don't think the Pacers or the Celtics would.

[Frichuela]

Wizards trade: Beal, Bonga, Smith
Wizards receive: Jaylen Brown, Turner, #14, #26

Celtics trade: Hayward, Brown, #14, #26
Celtics receive: Beal, Smith, Lamb

Pacers trade: Turner, Lamb
Pacers receive: Hayward

New lineup:

Wall/Napier/pick
J. Brown/Robinson/pick
T. Brown/Schofield/pick
Hachimura/Wagner
Turner/Bryant/pick

In the (hypothetical) case that Brad changes his mind and wants out ahead of the draft on Nov 18, this would be a decent return for us. I like how much Jaylen Brown has improved and he is locked in for a while. Plus getting Turner (and Brown) would certainly shore up our defense. At #9, #14 and #26, we could pick a wing (Vassell/Okoro at #9), PF (Achiuwa/Pat Williams at #14) and guard (Tyrell Terry, Bane at #26)

However:

1) How likely is this to happen? I think is more plausible that Brad wants out by the trade deadline next year if Wall's return underwhelms.

2) I think the Pacers may need some extra incentive...but is unlikely Boston would be willing to part with more assets...

[payitforward]

nate/pcbothwei -- I think you may have misunderstood my questions of you. Or else you may not think them worth answering, because they are too abstract. Or, most likely, because I didn't frame them clearly, so let me try again.

I'm interested in knowing what you see as Beal's actual value. Hence...

1. Forgetting about who owns what pick or player, given that we were to trade Beal for the #1 pick next year plus one & only one additional player -- who would that player have to be in order for that combination to be worth Brad Beal?

The answer to that question will be the name of a single NBA player. Thus, "Anthony Davis" would be an answer. "Shai Gilgeous-Alexander" would be an answer. "TJ Warren" would be an answer. I'm not suggesting that any of those would be your answer. But, anything other than the name of a single player will not answer this particular question.

2. Alternatively: what single NBA player plus what single pick in next year's draft would combine to be worth Brad Beal? An answer to this question might be "Anthony Davis & the #60 pick." I.e. the name of one player & the number of one pick -- that & only that. The combination does not have to be "practical," but anything other than 1 name plus 1 number is not an answer to my question of you.

Please do not take into account the needs of any other team, what would be a trade that could actually be made, or any other issue at all: just value.

There are too many answers that would suffice. The 2021 #1 pick alone plus a another asset would probably suffice.

As far as players, it depends on if we were taking contract into account. Because contract, along with age and production, determine value... Ill assume so.

Embiid, Donovan Mitchell, SGA & Simmons are close enough...
Lillard is clearly better, but also older and that contract...oh boy. I'd say they are about the same too.
Jamal Murray wouldn't be enough and would need another asset/late lotto pick.... but Im also weary of his ceiling.
PG13, IMO, is not quite there due to being 3 years older, on an expiring deal, and is picking up poor reputation as a playoff performer and locker room presence.

Let me confirm that I understand: you are saying that the value of Brad Beal = the #1 pick in 2021 plus any one of Embiid, Donovan Mitchell, SG-A or Simmons?

Is that right?

[pcbothwel]

nate/pcbothwei -- I think you may have misunderstood my questions of you. Or else you may not think them worth answering, because they are too abstract. Or, most likely, because I didn't frame them clearly, so let me try again.

I'm interested in knowing what you see as Beal's actual value. Hence...

1. Forgetting about who owns what pick or player, given that we were to trade Beal for the #1 pick next year plus one & only one additional player -- who would that player have to be in order for that combination to be worth Brad Beal?

The answer to that question will be the name of a single NBA player. Thus, "Anthony Davis" would be an answer. "Shai Gilgeous-Alexander" would be an answer. "TJ Warren" would be an answer. I'm not suggesting that any of those would be your answer. But, anything other than the name of a single player will not answer this particular question.

2. Alternatively: what single NBA player plus what single pick in next year's draft would combine to be worth Brad Beal? An answer to this question might be "Anthony Davis & the #60 pick." I.e. the name of one player & the number of one pick -- that & only that. The combination does not have to be "practical," but anything other than 1 name plus 1 number is not an answer to my question of you.

Please do not take into account the needs of any other team, what would be a trade that could actually be made, or any other issue at all: just value.

There are too many answers that would suffice. The 2021 #1 pick alone plus a another asset would probably suffice.

As far as players, it depends on if we were taking contract into account. Because contract, along with age and production, determine value... Ill assume so.

Embiid, Donovan Mitchell, SGA & Simmons are close enough...
Lillard is clearly better, but also older and that contract...oh boy. I'd say they are about the same too.
Jamal Murray wouldn't be enough and would need another asset/late lotto pick.... but Im also weary of his ceiling.
PG13, IMO, is not quite there due to being 3 years older, on an expiring deal, and is picking up poor reputation as a playoff performer and locker room presence.

Let me confirm that I understand: you are saying that the value of Brad Beal = the #1 pick in 2021 plus any one of Embiid, Donovan Mitchell, SG-A or Simmons?

Is that right?

Incorrect. Im answering the question in both draft capital and players.
Beal for draft pick: No draft pick this year alone would get it done or even close for me. The number one pick next year would be Cade, so Im all for that.

Beal for a player: Embiid, Mitchell, SGA & Simmons are all about the same. You could make arguments for some additional compensation, but this is a macro exercise.
This doesnt mean I would do the trade straight up personally, but you were speaking strictly of value.