Cassius Winston Thread

NatP4 · Post #81 » by **NatP4** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:35 pm

I think we actually made a pretty good pick with Winston. This is his 5th straight quality performance with Erie. He’s been pretty good in the 40 something minutes he’s played in the NBA.

I’d like to see him get chances in the 2nd half of the season after we get rid of Ish and Neto.

Finished the game with 16-4-4-1 only 1 turnover on 10 shots. +22.

NatP4 · Post #82 » by **NatP4** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:11 pm

Winston through 8 games: 15.7 points 6.5 assists 3.6 rebounds 2.6 turnovers on 64.1% TS

.133 WS/48
14.7 net rating

pcbothwel · Post #83 » by **pcbothwel** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:41 pm

NatP4 wrote:Winston through 8 games: 15.7 points 6.5 assists 3.6 rebounds 2.6 turnovers on 64.1% TS

.133 WS/48
14.7 net rating

Nat...havent you heard... Winston isnt an NBA player :roll:

queridiculo · Post #84 » by **queridiculo** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:45 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Winston through 8 games: 15.7 points 6.5 assists 3.6 rebounds 2.6 turnovers on 64.1% TS

.133 WS/48
14.7 net rating

Nat...havent you heard... Winston isnt an NBA player

Who said that, I thought the Wizboard liked this pick?

He needs to get in NBA shape though, I'm rooting for him, loved him at Michigan.

pcbothwel · Post #85 » by **pcbothwel** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:51 pm

No need to call people out...Ive been wrong before and surely will be again (LaMelo). But plenty of people stated he couldnt create enough space on offense and couldnt defend a chair on defense. To me, that means you are not an NBA caliber player.
He definitly needs to work on his body, but he is the same size as Collin Sexton and Eric Bledsoe and think his size will help.

NatP4 · Post #86 » by **NatP4** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:52 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Winston through 8 games: 15.7 points 6.5 assists 3.6 rebounds 2.6 turnovers on 64.1% TS

.133 WS/48
14.7 net rating

Nat...havent you heard... Winston isnt an NBA player

Ahh, How could I forget about his combine shuttle run time?

NatP4 · Post #87 » by **NatP4** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:56 pm

He’s shooting the lights out from 3, just like he did at Michigan state. 41% from 3 on almost 7 attempts per 36.

The on/off numbers say that he’s been solid defensively as well. I think we might have found a good one.

Ruzious · Post #88 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:22 pm

pcbothwel wrote:No need to call people out...Ive been wrong before and surely will be again (LaMelo). But plenty of people stated he couldnt create enough space on offense and couldnt defend a chair on defense. To me, that means you are not an NBA caliber player.
He definitly needs to work on his body, but he is the same size as Collin Sexton and Eric Bledsoe and think his size will help.

I liked the pick, but I doubt he'll ever be the athlete that Bledsoe and Sexton are. I think he can be an offensive sparkplug off the bench, but defensively... eh, he's a poor man's Neto.

NatP4 · Post #89 » by **NatP4** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:48 pm

He shot over 40% from 3 in college, NBA, and now in the G-league. It’s becoming clear that he can score efficiently and generate assists. Winston doesn’t really lack size, he has a 6’6 wingspan, and good strength. He still hasn’t turned 23 yet, younger than Rui even.

I think he can be average on the defensive end and a major plus on the offensive end.

I said it when we drafted him, he’s a poor man’s Kyle Lowry. You can’t teach elite basketball IQ and competitiveness.

doclinkin · Post #90 » by **doclinkin** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:31 pm

NatP4 wrote:He’s shooting the lights out from 3, just like he did at Michigan state. 41% from 3 on almost 7 attempts per 36.

The on/off numbers say that he’s been solid defensively as well. I think we might have found a good one.

As a 4 year Spartan he comes into the G-League as a savvy veteran. I think he is an ideal floor general for raw underdeveloped players without deep NCAA experience learning how to play the pro game. I wish we still had our own G-League team, but yeah... that and all the other wishes that come with it.

DCZards · Post #91 » by **DCZards** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:58 pm

NatP4 wrote:He’s shooting the lights out from 3, just like he did at Michigan state. 41% from 3 on almost 7 attempts per 36.

The on/off numbers say that he’s been solid defensively as well. I think we might have found a good one.

That's what I wanted to hear. After watching some film of Winston at Mich. St. after the Zards drafted him I was most impressed with his 3 ball shooting and his ability to get his shot off even when he wasn't wide open.

I was a big fan of Jalen Brunson when he came out of 'Nova but some here doubted his ability to play in the NBA. They cited his lack of "athleticism" and size. Brunson has done very well with the Mavs despite those shortcomings.

Like Brunson, Winston is a savvy, old school type of PG. Those guys are classic overachievers who excel primarily because of their high IQ, ballhandling and deception.

Cassius does, however, need to work on his body.

Ruzious · Post #92 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:00 pm

DCZards wrote:
NatP4 wrote:He’s shooting the lights out from 3, just like he did at Michigan state. 41% from 3 on almost 7 attempts per 36.

The on/off numbers say that he’s been solid defensively as well. I think we might have found a good one.

That's what I wanted to hear. After watching some film of Winston at Mich. St. after the Zards drafted him I was most impressed with his 3 ball shooting and his ability to get his shot off even when he wasn't wide open.

I was a big fan of Jalen Brunson when he came out of 'Nova but some here doubted his ability to play in the NBA. They cited his lack of "athleticism" and size. Brunson has done very well with the Mavs despite those shortcomings.

Like Brunson, Winston is a savvy, old school type of PG. Those guys are classic overachievers who excel primarily because of their high IQ, ballhandling and deception.

Cassius does, however, need to work on his body.

Yes to the last part. Brunson is much stronger than Winston, and that strength allows him to be a more versatile player.

NatP4 · Post #93 » by **NatP4** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:11 am

Again today!! 18-6-4-2 on 11 shots +13 in another win for Erie. 4-6 from 3. They have the best record in the G league now.

This is legit. Winston is too good for the G league.

Post #94 » by **nate33** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:27 am

NatP4 wrote:Again today!! 18-6-4-2 on 11 shots +13 in another win for Erie. 4-6 from 3. They have the best record in the G league now.

This is legit. Winston is too good for the G league.

We shall see.

It can't hurt to bring him over to the roster for a while, at least while Ish is out. But I maintain that he will prove to be unplayable against rotation-caliber players in the NBA. He won't be able to guard anyone. He is too short and too slow.

NatP4 · Post #95 » by **NatP4** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:05 pm

Read on Twitter

NatP4 · Post #96 » by **NatP4** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:19 pm

If someone asked me to list the 10 best defensive point guards, I would probably say:

Beverley, Paul, Graham, Schroder, Hill, Smart, Conley, Holiday, Morris, and Murray.

None of those guys are all that physically gifted besides maybe Holiday. Most of them are small below the rim players. I’m not sure about Winston’s upside defensively, his lateral quickness isn’t all that great, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up becoming a plus on defense. He’s such a smart player and competitor. All of those 10 players have great effort level and basketball IQ. A lot of PG defense is just about effort and IQ and willingness to fight through screens and harass ball handlers. That’s why someone like Dennis Schroeder is a significantly better defender than. John Wall/Russell Westbrook/Damian Lillard/Kyrie Irving.

It would be huge to come up with a starting caliber PG from the 53rd overall pick.

smoothSeph · Post #97 » by **smoothSeph** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:37 pm

Why does he land so weird when he shoots. Looks like a recipe to get hurt.

DCZards · Post #98 » by **DCZards** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:41 pm

NatP4 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Check out the 2 steals Winston makes beginning at about 1 minute in the video. Great illustrations of how smarts and instincts can trump size and athleticism.

Post #99 » by **nate33** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:45 pm

NatP4 wrote:If someone asked me to list the 10 best defensive point guards, I would probably say:

Beverley, Paul, Graham, Schroder, Hill, Smart, Conley, Holiday, Morris, and Murray.

None of those guys are all that physically gifted besides maybe Holiday. Most of them are small below the rim players. I’m not sure about Winston’s upside defensively, his lateral quickness isn’t all that great, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up becoming a plus on defense. He’s such a smart player and competitor. All of those 10 players have great effort level and basketball IQ. A lot of PG defense is just about effort and IQ and willingness to fight through screens and harass ball handlers. That’s why someone like Dennis Schroeder is a significantly better defender than. John Wall/Russell Westbrook/Damian Lillard/Kyrie Irving.

It would be huge to come up with a starting caliber PG from the 53rd overall pick.

Murray does not belong on that list, nor does Graham. And Lowry and Lonzo Ball should be on there.

In this league, you have to factor switchability, so size matters a lot. Neto, for example, is excellent at staying in front of people and he fights like hell when he gets stuck in a switch, but it doesn't matter much if the guy can just turn and shoot over him.

All those guys are quicker than Winston. And they all have much larger wingspans.

NatP4 · Post #100 » by **NatP4** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:56 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:If someone asked me to list the 10 best defensive point guards, I would probably say:

Beverley, Paul, Graham, Schroder, Hill, Smart, Conley, Holiday, Morris, and Murray.

None of those guys are all that physically gifted besides maybe Holiday. Most of them are small below the rim players. I’m not sure about Winston’s upside defensively, his lateral quickness isn’t all that great, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up becoming a plus on defense. He’s such a smart player and competitor. All of those 10 players have great effort level and basketball IQ. A lot of PG defense is just about effort and IQ and willingness to fight through screens and harass ball handlers. That’s why someone like Dennis Schroeder is a significantly better defender than. John Wall/Russell Westbrook/Damian Lillard/Kyrie Irving.

It would be huge to come up with a starting caliber PG from the 53rd overall pick.

Murray does not belong on that list, nor does Graham. And Lowry and Lonzo Ball should be on there.

In this league, you have to factor switchability, so size matters a lot. Neto, for example, is excellent at staying in front of people and he fights like hell when he gets stuck in a switch, but it doesn't matter much if the guy can just turn and shoot over him.

All those guys are quicker than Winston. And they all have much larger wingspans.

Well, none of that is actually true. Murray&Graham are excellent defenders. Lonzo Ball does not belong anywhere near that list. You can argue which couple names you want to switch in our out, but the point remains. The top defensive guards are not physically gifted athletes by NBA standards. The average wingspan for a point guard in the NBA is 6’6

Winston: 6’6

Paul: 6’4
Beverley: 6’7
Lowry: 6’2
Conley: 6’5
Morris: 6’4
Murray: 6’6
Graham: 6’6
Smart: 6’9
Schroder 6’8
Hill: 6’9
Holiday: 6’7

Neto: 6’2

Also, the metrics say that Neto has been a good defender for the majority of his career. He was great in Utah.