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The Official Johnny Davis Thread!

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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#81 » by 80sballboy » Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:27 pm

Halcyon wrote:
2 hours of game footage, which includes shot attempts, assists, rebounds, turnovers, and defense. Timestamps in the description.


I wish they would show defense and passing. The shot selection was very poor in that first Michigan State game, Seemed like he didn't trust his teammates. He also needs to put on more weight because he doesn't explode past people off the dribble. It's more about step-backs, post-ups and fadeaway, but also uses his strength and length on drives. Not explosive, which I knew, but he looks unimpressive in those first few games save for the use of his left hand, which I love. I think as a No. 3 or 4 option he'll get a lot better good looks. Looks like he can be good playing off the ball.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#82 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:08 pm

80sballboy wrote:More from The Athletic and Sam Vecenie and Josh Robbins.

https://theathletic.com/3381372/2022/06/23/johnny-davis-wizards-nba-draft/

Evaluating the Wizards’ pick at No. 10...


Before we start congratulating ourselves on the long Vecenie/Robbins assessment of Johnny, we should make sure we actually understand it:

Here's the conclusion -- first this:

"...I totally buy Davis as a top-20 type of prospect who becomes a solid rotation player.... "

Then this:

"...If a trainer can string some further explosiveness out of the quick-twitch Davis seems to have athletically, he could be worth a lottery pick...."

and this:

"...But without it, I worry a bit about whether he can be efficient enough as a secondary creator...."

Thankfully this:

"...If I’m going to bet on someone to improve, though, it’s someone with this competitiveness, toughness and track record of getting better."

Good. So we should bet on Johnny Davis improving enough to be worth a lottery pick.

That is what it says, folks. Here's hoping he's better than what it says. & he may be!
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#83 » by doclinkin » Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:45 pm

Back from vacation, what'd I miss ? :D

Okay. Johnny Davis.

I honestly think this pick-up is some Bradley Beal insurance. They really don't know what he will do 100% and is coming off injury anyway, in Davis they have a replacement Beal who has all the intangibles that Tommy looks for: solid guy, won't cheat you of effort, incomplete game but willing to work at it, seemingly a good face for the franchise going forward. We will lead the league in try-hard guys who work to max out the talent they have. So okay. He does give max effort on defense. Rebounds great for a guard. I'd like to see him with a shot coach to rebuild that shot. Likewise a strength conditioning guy to insulate himself against his full-throttle style. I'd like to see him working with Beal on tips and tricks since their games are similar. Mostly, anything that helps him survive driving into the interior on the real giants he will see at this level.

Whatever my frustrations or certainties, it is easy to cheer for guys who give max effort on both ends. I think it will take Davis a bit to adjust, so early on fans may be pointing to other player's that we passed over, but if work ethic and health allow, I expect Davis will steadily improve. Looks to me like the sort of player who breaks out in year 3. So, in other words, a rookie.

And if Beal walks, well Davis will get PT and a leadership role early in his career, trial by fire.

I don't think he swiftly displaces either of Kispert or KCP (if not traded) but still, taking all the Neto minutes would give him enough time to learn under fire.

We need shooters, hopefully Deni has built a 3-ball that he can trust, ditto Kuz. And that Rui stays consistent. And Zingus/Beal regain their touch. That will open up room on the interior for Johnny's one man avalanche style. I'm curious to see how it works and what year 2 of Wes can do.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#84 » by FAH1223 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:59 am

Read on Twitter

Stat #3 - EFFICIENCY

While he did limit his mistakes, Johnny Davis wasn’t exactly efficient when it came to scoring the basketball. He finished with 42.7 percent shooting clip from the field, which on its own is already far from ideal for a primary scorer.

The advanced efficiency metrics were even less kind to J.D. His effective field goal percentage (46.3 percent) and true shooting percentage (52.2 percent) were amongst the worst in the class, ranking 37th out of 40 in both categories.

Davis was largely hurt by his lack of a reliable shot from the three-point line, both taking relatively few threes (3.9 3PA) and being poor at knocking them down (30.6 3P%).

Stat #4 - MIDRANGE

Johnny Davis’ preferred weapon of choice is the midrange jump shot, which partly explains why the efficiency numbers were pretty harsh on him.

Davis was one of just 10 players in the NCAA last season who attempted over 200 shots from the midrange. He ranked second to worst on that list when it came to actually making them, connecting on 84 out of 228 attempts, good for a pedestrian 36.8 percent knockdown rate

He took the most in the 2022 NBA draft class by far, owning a 20-shot attempt lead over second placer E.J. Liddell of Ohio State, who was much more efficient with a 99-for-208 clip for a 47.6 percent rate.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#85 » by AFM » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:51 am

I really, really like Davis. I've been watching his footage. Dude has a spectacular midrange game.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#86 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:12 am

AFM wrote:I really, really like Davis. I've been watching his footage. Dude has a spectacular midrange game.


A spectacular mid-range game that hits at a 35% clip. Meaning: inefficient. The hope is that this opens up when he is not the focal point of the defense. And that it works better despite better defenders at the next level.

I like Davis for his effort and potential to improve with hard work. And his 80% FT shooting suggests he might build a 3 ball. But unless your mid-range is above say 45~50% or you can force a ton of fouls with it, it is not as good as lay-ups/dunks and outside shots. He would need a Kawhi level mid-range game for this to be the team's best option on offense.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#87 » by AFM » Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:29 am

doclinkin wrote:
AFM wrote:I really, really like Davis. I've been watching his footage. Dude has a spectacular midrange game.


A spectacular mid-range game that hits at a 35% clip. Meaning: inefficient. The hope is that this opens up when he is not the focal point of the defense. And that it works better despite better defenders at the next level.

I like Davis for his effort and potential to improve with hard work. And his 80% FT shooting suggests he might build a 3 ball. But unless your mid-range is above say 45~50% or you can force a ton of fouls with it, it is not as good as lay-ups/dunks and outside shots. He would need a Kawhi level mid-range game for this to be the team's best option on offense.


Fair enough doc. Have you watched his footage?
His usage rate is 35 percent. Basically the offense was give him the ball.

My praise of him was he looked really good with the ball.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#88 » by prime1time » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:41 am

doclinkin wrote:
AFM wrote:I really, really like Davis. I've been watching his footage. Dude has a spectacular midrange game.


A spectacular mid-range game that hits at a 35% clip. Meaning: inefficient. The hope is that this opens up when he is not the focal point of the defense. And that it works better despite better defenders at the next level.

I like Davis for his effort and potential to improve with hard work. And his 80% FT shooting suggests he might build a 3 ball. But unless your mid-range is above say 45~50% or you can force a ton of fouls with it, it is not as good as lay-ups/dunks and outside shots. He would need a Kawhi level mid-range game for this to be the team's best option on offense.

To put it simply this is a bad take because it is devoid of context. Wiscconsin's offense had no spacing. Davis repeatedly had to beat not only his man but multiple help defenders. We all saw what Boston's defense did to KD when the Brooklyn offense lacked spacing. In 2022 we should.be far past talking about statistics devoid of context,
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#89 » by willbcocks » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:22 pm

That film session footage does not inspire confidence.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#90 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:27 pm

prime1time wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
AFM wrote:I really, really like Davis. I've been watching his footage. Dude has a spectacular midrange game.


A spectacular mid-range game that hits at a 35% clip. Meaning: inefficient. The hope is that this opens up when he is not the focal point of the defense. And that it works better despite better defenders at the next level.

I like Davis for his effort and potential to improve with hard work. And his 80% FT shooting suggests he might build a 3 ball. But unless your mid-range is above say 45~50% or you can force a ton of fouls with it, it is not as good as lay-ups/dunks and outside shots. He would need a Kawhi level mid-range game for this to be the team's best option on offense.

To put it simply this is a bad take because it is devoid of context. Wiscconsin's offense had no spacing.


You can take that a few ways. Wisconsin's offense had no spacing in part because the team had no Point Guard and opted to give Johnny the ball on every play. After that the offense is predictable because Davis does not have an outside shot that he can get off to force teams to chase him outside the arc. Folks cite his 38% on catch and shoot 3's from the NCAA line, which to the contrary, is not actually all that good. These are wide open shots most of the time. If Davis was a threat to step back and hit a shot off the dribble, teams would not be able to load up on the interior and his dribble penetration game would be a serious weapon. A pump fake, a side step, fake and reposition, hesitation, give me any move that will free him for an outside jumper and he will suddenly be hitting even those interior shots at better than 35%. That is the context we are talking about. He was able to penetrate, and not lose the ball even in a crowd -- that part of his game is excellent -- then he would pull up and take a shot, which would miss 65% of the time. He had 2 interior scorers who hit their 2pt FG's at a high rate. But Davis' game was to put his head down and attack. He wasn't finding the open guy past all the defensive attention he received.

I'd love it if Davis was able to learn from Beal. One thing that Beal has been able to rely on in past years, the step back that sprung him open for 3. He also learned to share the ball and increase his assist rate. His mid-range game was supplemented by interior scoring and at least the threat of an outside shot. Early on he showed he knew how to play while off the ball and in motion, which is a part of his game that I am looking forward to seeing rejuvenate if we get a chance to see him with Porzingis. I'd like to see Davis add these skills to a game that right now, to me, does not look like it translates all that well. At the next level he will have more efficient scorers around him, Davis putting his head down and driving into traffic while his teammates stand around is not an efficient game plan.

Dude is a competitor. All aces in that department. Will to win, undaunted, tough. He never gave the ball up in either way: turnovers or rebounding. Or passing to teammates, but yeah: he has shown he is willing to carry a team and was able to do so. That is all hopeful.

But it is fair to actually talk about context, so long as you look at the whole picture: Davis' entire game was to have tunnelvision and drive at the heart of the defense, making difficult shots and somehow winning out of sheer force of will. If we are talking what he *might do* at the next level, we have to admit he didn't show those skills at the college level. Maybe at the next level he is not an inefficient ballhog that we have seen in other high usage players. Maybe he is a more willing passer when his teammates can hit shots. Maybe he has space at the next level to hit a higher percentage -- even against more skilled, quicker, longer defenders. Like Kofi Cockburn, only quicker. But acknowledge in context you are drafting a bunch of "maybe" in a guy that did not yet show the game that he is going to need at the pro level.

I can paint a picture where Porzingis is an ideal teammate for a ball handling guy who penetrates to the interior and rebounds big from a guard position. Finishes at the basket and draws fouls. I can talk about how fierce defense is now allowed at the NBA so rookies who played tough in college are not as vulnerable to foul trouble coming into the league, and his ability to stop the ball and flummox opposing attackers will give Gafford time to get into position for the block, and reduce his propensity for fouls.

But I will like it more when Davis shows he can drive and kick to an outside shooter, and when he develops a shot he can either take from long distance or better still shake free on a fake and fly-by where he can rise and hit the shot from outside. Those are pro skills teams look for in a ball handling attack guard, otherwise it is easier to defend. 35% from mid-range is not the skill that got him drafted Top 10.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#91 » by keynote » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:54 pm

What can't Davis be Jimmy Butler?
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#92 » by prime1time » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:38 am

doclinkin wrote:
prime1time wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
A spectacular mid-range game that hits at a 35% clip. Meaning: inefficient. The hope is that this opens up when he is not the focal point of the defense. And that it works better despite better defenders at the next level.

I like Davis for his effort and potential to improve with hard work. And his 80% FT shooting suggests he might build a 3 ball. But unless your mid-range is above say 45~50% or you can force a ton of fouls with it, it is not as good as lay-ups/dunks and outside shots. He would need a Kawhi level mid-range game for this to be the team's best option on offense.

To put it simply this is a bad take because it is devoid of context. Wiscconsin's offense had no spacing.


You can take that a few ways. Wisconsin's offense had no spacing in part because the team had no Point Guard and opted to give Johnny the ball on every play. After that the offense is predictable because Davis does not have an outside shot that he can get off to force teams to chase him outside the arc. Folks cite his 38% on catch and shoot 3's from the NCAA line, which to the contrary, is not actually all that good. These are wide open shots most of the time. If Davis was a threat to step back and hit a shot off the dribble, teams would not be able to load up on the interior and his dribble penetration game would be a serious weapon. A pump fake, a side step, fake and reposition, hesitation, give me any move that will free him for an outside jumper and he will suddenly be hitting even those interior shots at better than 35%. That is the context we are talking about. He was able to penetrate, and not lose the ball even in a crowd -- that part of his game is excellent -- then he would pull up and take a shot, which would miss 65% of the time. He had 2 interior scorers who hit their 2pt FG's at a high rate. But Davis' game was to put his head down and attack. He wasn't finding the open guy past all the defensive attention he received.

I'd love it if Davis was able to learn from Beal. One thing that Beal has been able to rely on in past years, the step back that sprung him open for 3. He also learned to share the ball and increase his assist rate. His mid-range game was supplemented by interior scoring and at least the threat of an outside shot. Early on he showed he knew how to play while off the ball and in motion, which is a part of his game that I am looking forward to seeing rejuvenate if we get a chance to see him with Porzingis. I'd like to see Davis add these skills to a game that right now, to me, does not look like it translates all that well. At the next level he will have more efficient scorers around him, Davis putting his head down and driving into traffic while his teammates stand around is not an efficient game plan.

Dude is a competitor. All aces in that department. Will to win, undaunted, tough. He never gave the ball up in either way: turnovers or rebounding. Or passing to teammates, but yeah: he has shown he is willing to carry a team and was able to do so. That is all hopeful.

But it is fair to actually talk about context, so long as you look at the whole picture: Davis' entire game was to have tunnelvision and drive at the heart of the defense, making difficult shots and somehow winning out of sheer force of will. If we are talking what he *might do* at the next level, we have to admit he didn't show those skills at the college level. Maybe at the next level he is not an inefficient ballhog that we have seen in other high usage players. Maybe he is a more willing passer when his teammates can hit shots. Maybe he has space at the next level to hit a higher percentage -- even against more skilled, quicker, longer defenders. Like Kofi Cockburn, only quicker. But acknowledge in context you are drafting a bunch of "maybe" in a guy that did not yet show the game that he is going to need at the pro level.

I can paint a picture where Porzingis is an ideal teammate for a ball handling guy who penetrates to the interior and rebounds big from a guard position. Finishes at the basket and draws fouls. I can talk about how fierce defense is now allowed at the NBA so rookies who played tough in college are not as vulnerable to foul trouble coming into the league, and his ability to stop the ball and flummox opposing attackers will give Gafford time to get into position for the block, and reduce his propensity for fouls.

But I will like it more when Davis shows he can drive and kick to an outside shooter, and when he develops a shot he can either take from long distance or better still shake free on a fake and fly-by where he can rise and hit the shot from outside. Those are pro skills teams look for in a ball handling attack guard, otherwise it is easier to defend. 35% from mid-range is not the skill that got him drafted Top 10.

Is there a player that we could have drafted that didn't have "maybes"?
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#93 » by prime1time » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:42 am

For people who want an honest in-depth analysis of Davis devoid of the ever-present battered Wizard fan syndrome, I am in the process of doing a deep dive.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#94 » by payitforward » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:55 am

keynote wrote:What can't Davis be Jimmy Butler?

Great question. To put the answer positively -- he can be Jimmy Butler as soon as he's as good as Jimmy Butler.

Or, one could also put it this way: he can't be Jimmy Butler, because he isn't as good as Jimmy Butler.

Jimmy's Freshman TS% was .612. As a Sophomore it was .632.
Johnny was at .505 & .523.
Jimmy's also a lot bigger than Johnny.

OTOH, Johnny's usage level was insanely high, which would inevitably hold down his or anyone's efficiency.

TBH, I find it extremely difficult to develop any idea of how Johnny Davis will do in the NBA. I can't get a picture. Except for sure he'll defend, & he'll give top effort.

That fact -- that it's hard to see the translation of his college game to a successful NBA game... that alone would have kept me from picking him. Not to mention the opportunities available by trading down.

Too late to worry about any of that!
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#95 » by doclinkin » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:55 am

keynote wrote:What can't Davis be Jimmy Butler?


Maybe. The 6'8" Jimmy Butler shot 37% from midrange this year. You'd hope Davis shoots better than that. Butler did most of his damage in the paint where he shot 66% on 5FGA a game. But I don't know if I see Butler in Johnny's offensive game. Davis' offensive game actually looks similar to this year's Bradley Beal who shot 48% from mid-range this year. If Davis could do that, and add intense defense, he will be a solid player in this league. Though right now the player with that profile (midrange scoring and intense D) is Davion Mitchell.

To be somewhere on the spectrum between Jimmy Butler and Davion MItchell would be a good player in this league though. I think Johnny could get good, and even adapt some of what he does to the NBA. It's just that I expect it will take a couple seasons adjusting to the size and speed and strength of the interior players he will face. He will have to tweak a few of his favorite moves. We don't see many low post scoring guards in the NBA backing down their opponents in the half court. There are too many shot blockers who feast on the interior, and he will not have the strength mismatch quite as often at this level as he did in college -- even in the bump and grind Big 10. I think as a veteran he will be a tough player to face, I fully expect he will figure out what works and what doesn't. It might take a minute is all.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#96 » by doclinkin » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:08 am

prime1time wrote:Is there a player that we could have drafted that didn't have "maybes"?


We will see, right? My feeling was trading down, if we could, would patch more of the 'maybe's' that our team needs to be patched. My feeling on Davis was that by himself he improves us incrementally, but may not be the player that is an every night mis-match at his position. Those are the players that take a team to a championship. Incremental improvement can get a team stuck at the back end of the playoffs or in the play-in games. Still improvement is improvement.

If I had to pick one player my 'maybe' dude was AJ Griffin, since I see he has one NBA calibre skill that any team looks for, and has the size/measurables that would suggest he might have another level that has been suppressed by injury. So: adding a needed skill with potential for hidden upside. But 'maybe' the medical teams did not like the look of what is happening in his knee or whatever. He did fall further than I thought he would. If the med staff said 'no-go' and we were stuck with one pick I would have taken Mark Williams. So since we can't know if there was a trade down possible, looks like my metric will be Griffin/Mk Williams vs Johnny Davis. And in that respect even if Griffin proves to be a pretty good player I expect neither one by themselves will be the guy who carries their team to the championship. Davis will try though, he does have heart. We'll see.

Williams though, he might carry his team all the way. I get the feeling that in this next cycle, a playable defensive Big will prove a significant asset for teams with championship designs.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#97 » by doclinkin » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:11 am

prime1time wrote:For people who want an honest in-depth analysis of Davis devoid of the ever-present battered Wizard fan syndrome, I am in the process of doing a deep dive.


Oh awesome, can't wait. COMING SOON. This board has been waiting for an honest anything. Let me know if you want an honest opinion and honest analysis of your personal character. We can have fun...
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#98 » by DCZards » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:25 am

doclinkin wrote:But it is fair to actually talk about context, so long as you look at the whole picture: Davis' entire game was to have tunnelvision and drive at the heart of the defense, making difficult shots and somehow winning out of sheer force of will. If we are talking what he *might do* at the next level, we have to admit he didn't show those skills at the college level. Maybe at the next level he is not an inefficient ballhog that we have seen in other high usage players. Maybe he is a more willing passer when his teammates can hit shots. Maybe he has space at the next level to hit a higher percentage -- even against more skilled, quicker, longer defenders. Like Kofi Cockburn, only quicker. But acknowledge in context you are drafting a bunch of "maybe" in a guy that did not yet show the game that he is going to need at the pro level.

One adjustment I think Davis will make fairly easily is to learn to trust his teammates. Johnny D seems like a pretty smart kid so I don’t expect it to take long for him to figure out that he doesn’t need to drive into the heart of the defense to make winning plays.

He does, however, need to improve his passing and playmaking skills.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#99 » by doclinkin » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:31 am

DCZards wrote:
doclinkin wrote:But it is fair to actually talk about context, so long as you look at the whole picture: Davis' entire game was to have tunnelvision and drive at the heart of the defense, making difficult shots and somehow winning out of sheer force of will. If we are talking what he *might do* at the next level, we have to admit he didn't show those skills at the college level. Maybe at the next level he is not an inefficient ballhog that we have seen in other high usage players. Maybe he is a more willing passer when his teammates can hit shots. Maybe he has space at the next level to hit a higher percentage -- even against more skilled, quicker, longer defenders. Like Kofi Cockburn, only quicker. But acknowledge in context you are drafting a bunch of "maybe" in a guy that did not yet show the game that he is going to need at the pro level.

One adjustment I think Davis will make fairly easily is to learn to trust his teammates. Johnny D seems like a pretty smart kid so I don’t expect it to take long for him to figure out that he doesn’t need to drive into the heart of the defense to make winning plays.

He does, however, need to improve his passing and playmaking skills.


And if not he will have a seat next to a rack of assistant coaches who will be telling him about it. I do like his fire, and feel like with a calm and cerebral coach it will be useful to have a guy on the floor who plays with a chip on his shoulder. If Wes can mould him into a floor general type then, we may really have something. And actually, even short of that, I can see him playing a role at least equivalent to Larry Hughes in the first iteration of the offense that Wes developed in the Hibachi era.
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Re: The Official Johnny Davis Thread! 

Post#100 » by prime1time » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:49 am

doclinkin wrote:
prime1time wrote:For people who want an honest in-depth analysis of Davis devoid of the ever-present battered Wizard fan syndrome, I am in the process of doing a deep dive.


Oh awesome, can't wait. COMING SOON. This board has been waiting for an honest anything. Let me know if you want an honest opinion and honest analysis of your personal character. We can have fun...

Lol, I come here to talk about basketball. Anything else other than that is noise.

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