WOJ/SHAMS: Nuggets trade Barton and Morris for KCP and Ish Smith

[9 and 20]

Good trade for Morris. B+ move.

I'd do that follow up Brodgon trade and throw in Isiah Todd so they can call it a win for getting a decent-ish prospect back.

Overall, if that would make the offseason a C+ for me, assuming they max out Beal. High variance with injury concerns with Brogdon and Zingus, but pretty good upside, maybe challenging for a top 6 spot in the east.

It's also possible they package up some of the young guys with Kuzma and take a big swing for a guy, then use the MLE to round out the roster.

[nate33]

If I’m Jalen Smith, I’m going to a team that lets me play. He exploded in Indiana when finally given a chance to actually see the floor. We’ve had rumored interest in him multiple different times, and of course the DC ties. I think it’s a perfect fit after we ship out Kuzma.

No thanks on Oladipo. He’s way too up and down at this point in his career.

Would he expect to get minutes on this roster with Avdija and Rui and PF and Porzingis and Gafford at center?

[Jay81]

not a huge fan of the trade. We traded KCP who is pretty valuable for teams that are making a deep playoff run. He was the best player in the deal and we didnt even get a pick back. I just wish we would of gotten a pick back

[NatP4]

Morris and Gafford would be really good insurance behind guys like Brogdon and Porzingis. I would like that plan.

[davoarid]

Read on Twitter

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I'm a Nuggets fan, checking out this thread to see what I can learn about Ish Smith. (I feel like whenever I watched Wizards highlights over the last few years he was beating his guy off the dribble and making lay-ups....I'm guessing if he's been traded 12 times or whatever, it's because he's pretty lousy at everything else?)

Anyway, I quoted this post because, as someone who has watched every Nuggets game for the last three years, the idea of Will Barton being an asset on defense is absurd. Sorry--he's a cool guy and I'm going to miss him, but he is dreadful on D--just this awful combination of being too slow for Point Of Attack/on-the-ball perimeter defense and consistently making mental lapses when he's off-the-ball that lead to wide open shots. Sorry

[trast66]

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=Kba4uP2mwtZSUQ-sC3PkUA

I'm a Nuggets fan, checking out this thread to see what I can learn about Ish Smith. (I feel like whenever I watched Wizards highlights over the last few years he was beating his guy off the dribble and making lay-ups....I'm guessing if he's been traded 12 times or whatever, it's because he's pretty lousy at everything else?)

Anyway, I quoted this post because, as someone who has watched every Nuggets game for the last three years, the idea of Will Barton being an asset on defense is absurd. Sorry--he's a cool guy and I'm going to miss him, but he is dreadful on D--just this awful combination of being too slow for Point Of Attack/on-the-ball perimeter defense and consistently making mental lapses when he's off-the-ball that lead to wide open shots. Sorry

Sounds like he will fit right in here! Glad to have Monte and hope Barton gets moved soon.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=Kba4uP2mwtZSUQ-sC3PkUA

I'm a Nuggets fan, checking out this thread to see what I can learn about Ish Smith. (I feel like whenever I watched Wizards highlights over the last few years he was beating his guy off the dribble and making lay-ups....I'm guessing if he's been traded 12 times or whatever, it's because he's pretty lousy at everything else?)

Anyway, I quoted this post because, as someone who has watched every Nuggets game for the last three years, the idea of Will Barton being an asset on defense is absurd. Sorry--he's a cool guy and I'm going to miss him, but he is dreadful on D--just this awful combination of being too slow for Point Of Attack/on-the-ball perimeter defense and consistently making mental lapses when he's off-the-ball that lead to wide open shots. Sorry

Thanks and welcome to the board... feel free to stay and hang out.

RE: Ish. Ish is a great guy. I mean a really great guy. He's fun to watch, constantly puts guys on roller skate and every five games or so when his midrange shot is falling, wins a game for his team. The problem is the four games in between. He shoots too much, seems to play at his own pace and not at the pace of the players around him. And his defense is beyond bad.

As an emergency, break glass guy, he's really good. Playing large minutes night after night, he gets exposed.

Tell us your take on Monte. From his stats, looks like he's pretty solid, but doesn't initiate much. His FTAs/game worries me.

[80sballboy]

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=Kba4uP2mwtZSUQ-sC3PkUA

I'm a Nuggets fan, checking out this thread to see what I can learn about Ish Smith. (I feel like whenever I watched Wizards highlights over the last few years he was beating his guy off the dribble and making lay-ups....I'm guessing if he's been traded 12 times or whatever, it's because he's pretty lousy at everything else?)

Anyway, I quoted this post because, as someone who has watched every Nuggets game for the last three years, the idea of Will Barton being an asset on defense is absurd. Sorry--he's a cool guy and I'm going to miss him, but he is dreadful on D--just this awful combination of being too slow for Point Of Attack/on-the-ball perimeter defense and consistently making mental lapses when he's off-the-ball that lead to wide open shots. Sorry

I know that Barton is not great on D. Don't believe in a lot of defensive metrics, but I guess Tommy does. KCP is an upgrade there. Ish is good at pushing the pace. Still has some speed and quickness. He's undersized so he's going to struggle on D, but he's a good guy for the locker room.

[dckingsfan]

Read on Twitter

I'm a Nuggets fan, checking out this thread to see what I can learn about Ish Smith. (I feel like whenever I watched Wizards highlights over the last few years he was beating his guy off the dribble and making lay-ups....I'm guessing if he's been traded 12 times or whatever, it's because he's pretty lousy at everything else?)

Anyway, I quoted this post because, as someone who has watched every Nuggets game for the last three years, the idea of Will Barton being an asset on defense is absurd. Sorry--he's a cool guy and I'm going to miss him, but he is dreadful on D--just this awful combination of being too slow for Point Of Attack/on-the-ball perimeter defense and consistently making mental lapses when he's off-the-ball that lead to wide open shots. Sorry

I hear you on that... I think you will like KCP's D if they move him to your starting SG. And he did come on last year with Porzingis in the high post... no reason to think he won't stay there (although there is father time).

Ish Smith isn't all that as a defender and won't work well with the Joker on offense. Fine for the 10 minutes that Joker is off the floor.

To me this was a trade of KCP for Morris. A starting SG for a backup PG. To me, this is a reason to play Avdija and Kispert and not KCP - if we play Barton then in my mind it is a fail.

[payitforward]

Everybody busy claiming KCP is better than Barton & "the best player in the deal."

Has anyone bothered to look at the two players minutes/numbers this year? I skipped a coupla pages, so maybe eventually someone did. All the same, let me summarize:

1. Will Barton had a somewhat better year overall than KCP. I.e. somewhat better numbers.

Plus, guess what...?

2. Will Barton has also put up slightly better numbers than KCP on his career overall.

Spoiler:

But how can that be?
Comes a cry from the crowd

For to you & to me
(& it must make him proud)

It's plain to see
When we glance at the draft

How high he was taken, our KCP
Unlike Will who waited then went with the crap!

That ought to convince you!

[davoarid]

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=Kba4uP2mwtZSUQ-sC3PkUA

I'm a Nuggets fan, checking out this thread to see what I can learn about Ish Smith. (I feel like whenever I watched Wizards highlights over the last few years he was beating his guy off the dribble and making lay-ups....I'm guessing if he's been traded 12 times or whatever, it's because he's pretty lousy at everything else?)

Anyway, I quoted this post because, as someone who has watched every Nuggets game for the last three years, the idea of Will Barton being an asset on defense is absurd. Sorry--he's a cool guy and I'm going to miss him, but he is dreadful on D--just this awful combination of being too slow for Point Of Attack/on-the-ball perimeter defense and consistently making mental lapses when he's off-the-ball that lead to wide open shots. Sorry

Thanks and welcome to the board... feel free to stay and hang out.

RE: Ish. Ish is a great guy. I mean a really great guy. He's fun to watch, constantly puts guys on roller skate and every five games or so when his midrange shot is falling, wins a game for his team. The problem is the four games in between. He shoots too much, seems to play at his own pace and not at the pace of the players around him. And his defense is beyond bad.

As an emergency, break glass guy, he's really good. Playing large minutes night after night, he gets exposed.

Tell us your take on Monte. From his stats, looks like he's pretty solid, but doesn't initiate much. His FTAs/game worries me.

Monte is a very smart player on offense who will never do anything to hurt you. He never forces shots or makes reckless passes (his assist-to-turnover ratios are always near the top of the league). That said, he can be frustratingly passive, and he's not a guy who can consistently break down a defense by beating his guy off the dribble. (His scoring game is more like an extremely poor man's 38-year-old Chris Paul: lots of open mid-range jumpers off of screens or Jokic wizardry.) I think his skillset would fit in very well on a team with a ball-dominant 2-guard like Beal--it's certainly a much better situation than on the lineups where he was forced to create his own shots here. That's just not his game, never has been.

On defense he is just a sieve, a complete non-entity. I can't even think of a single nice thing to say about it. Defense is just the thing he has to do before he can get back on offense.

[nate33]

Everybody busy claiming KCP is better than Barton & "the best player in the deal."

Has anyone bothered to look at the two players minutes/numbers this year? I skipped a coupla pages, so maybe eventually someone did. All the same, let me summarize:

1. Will Barton had a somewhat better year overall than KCP. I.e. somewhat better numbers.

Plus, guess what...?

2. Will Barton has also put up slightly better numbers than KCP on his career overall.

Spoiler:

But how can that be?
Comes a cry from the crowd

For to you & to me
(& it must make him proud)

It's plain to see
When we glance at the draft

How high he was taken, our KCP
Unlike Will who waited then went with the crap!

That ought to convince you!

FWIW,

EPM
KCP +0.1
Barton -1.1

RAPTOR
KCP -1.1
Barton -1.9

RPM
KCP +1.93
Barton +3.59

As I understand it, EPM is the publicly available advanced metric most respected by NBA executives. RAPTOR is also pretty well regarded. RPM less so.

[dckingsfan]

Everybody busy claiming KCP is better than Barton & "the best player in the deal."

Has anyone bothered to look at the two players minutes/numbers this year? I skipped a coupla pages, so maybe eventually someone did. All the same, let me summarize:

1. Will Barton had a somewhat better year overall than KCP. I.e. somewhat better numbers.

Plus, guess what...?

2. Will Barton has also put up slightly better numbers than KCP on his career overall.

Spoiler:

But how can that be?
Comes a cry from the crowd

For to you & to me
(& it must make him proud)

It's plain to see
When we glance at the draft

How high he was taken, our KCP
Unlike Will who waited then went with the crap!

That ought to convince you!

It doesn't (in my mind) when you take into account the contracts, age and what we need on this team.

I see Barton as a declining asset and KCP as a flat asset. I see KCP as a better defender.

I think KCP's numbers will go up substantially paying next to the Joker. I see Barton's numbers falling faster due to the same issue.

But this trade still has the "panic" issue written all over it like last year's trade for a backup PG. And I think we will have another "panic" move to get a starting PG. History tends to...

[queridiculo]

not a huge fan of the trade. We traded KCP is pretty valuable to alot of teams that are making a deep playoff run. He was the best player in the deal and we didnt even get a pick back. We traded the best player in the deal and got no future assets? how is that a good trade?

Eh, if KCP was that valuable we'd have seen a move made around the draft or leading up to it.

The Wizards have a glut of wings and forwards and KCP was going to be the odd man out eventually.

The Wizards managed to plug a hole and made room on the roster to give some of the younger players a legitimate chance to compete for a spot in the rotation.

I like this move, KCP was on borrowed time.

[payitforward]

This was a great trade for us -- not good but great.

1. Neither KCP nor Will Barton figure into our future. Nor is there much difference between them -- although Barton is 2 years older than KCP, hence it's conceivable he'll crater this year. Meh. Doesn't seem likely. &... doesn't much matter anyway.

2. Monte Morris is a colossal upgrade over Ish -- that much must be obvious. He's also a ton better PG than some of you have been giving him credit for.

Morris played 25 minutes as a rookie; his 2d year he played 1970 minutes. Denver had the 4th best record in the league that year -- you think he was 3d on the team in minutes because there was nothing at stake for them?

Monte Morris is a 39% plus 3 point shooter on his career. To take just one example from his outstanding numbers. He's absolutely terrific.

[queridiculo]

It doesn't (in my mind) when you take into account the contracts, age and what we need on this team.

I see Barton as a declining asset and KCP as a flat asset. I see KCP as a better defender.

I think KCP's numbers will go up substantially paying next to the Joker. I see Barton's numbers falling faster due to the same issue.

But this trade still has the "panic" issue written all over it like last year's trade for a backup PG. And I think we will have another "panic" move to get a starting PG. History tends to...

KCP was never going to play a meaningful role for the Wizards when it's all said and done, he was never going to be more than an expiring contract, much like Barton.

Kispert and Davis will compete for minutes behind Beal, and along with Advija, Kuzma and Hachimura they're going to be options to play SF.

KCP wouldn't have had a future on this team any more than Barton will, but the Wizards managed to address an obvious need by bringing in Morris as a legit option at PG.

I don't really understand how anybody can characterize this as a panic move.

[dckingsfan]

It doesn't (in my mind) when you take into account the contracts, age and what we need on this team.

I see Barton as a declining asset and KCP as a flat asset. I see KCP as a better defender.

I think KCP's numbers will go up substantially paying next to the Joker. I see Barton's numbers falling faster due to the same issue.

But this trade still has the "panic" issue written all over it like last year's trade for a backup PG. And I think we will have another "panic" move to get a starting PG. History tends to...

KCP was never going to play a meaningful role for the Wizards when it's all said and done, he was never going to be more than an expiring contract, much like Barton.

Kispert and Davis will compete for minutes behind Beal, and along with Advija, Kuzma and Hachimura they're going to be options to play SF.

KCP wouldn't have had a future on this team any more than Barton will, but the Wizards managed to address an obvious need by bringing in Morris as a legit option at PG.

I don't really understand how anybody can characterize this as a panic move.

In the same way I viewed the moves last year for PG. This has the same feel...

If you want to say that Morris is going to move us forward - okay. Otherwise we are flipping an expiring contract for what seems like Holiday 2.0. This feels like treading water at best.

Very much hoping I am wrong.

[Rafael122]

This was a great trade for us -- not good but great.

1. Neither KCP nor Will Barton figure into our future. Nor is there much difference between them -- although Barton is 2 years older than KCP, hence it's conceivable he'll crater this year. Meh. Doesn't seem likely. &... doesn't much matter anyway.

2. Monte Morris is a colossal upgrade over Ish -- that much must be obvious. He's also a ton better PG than some of you have been giving him credit for.

Morris played 25 minutes as a rookie; his 2d year he played 1970 minutes. Denver had the 4th best record in the league that year -- you think he was 3d on the team in minutes because there was nothing at stake for them?

Monte Morris is a 39% plus 3 point shooter on his career. To take just one example from his outstanding numbers. He's absolutely terrific.

The 1st point is key, if you they didn't view KCP as a long term piece, then he had to be moved. I feel the same about Kuz.

[NatP4]

Everybody busy claiming KCP is better than Barton & "the best player in the deal."

Has anyone bothered to look at the two players minutes/numbers this year? I skipped a coupla pages, so maybe eventually someone did. All the same, let me summarize:

1. Will Barton had a somewhat better year overall than KCP. I.e. somewhat better numbers.

Plus, guess what...?

2. Will Barton has also put up slightly better numbers than KCP on his career overall.

Spoiler:

But how can that be?
Comes a cry from the crowd

For to you & to me
(& it must make him proud)

It's plain to see
When we glance at the draft

How high he was taken, our KCP
Unlike Will who waited then went with the crap!

That ought to convince you!

FWIW,

EPM
KCP +0.1
Barton -1.1

RAPTOR
KCP -1.1
Barton -1.9

RPM
KCP +1.93
Barton +3.59

As I understand it, EPM is the publicly available advanced metric most respected by NBA executives. RAPTOR is also pretty well regarded. RPM less so.

Seems like every metric loves Morris except RAPTOR, where he rates out horribly, which is concerning.

[80sballboy]

Some early grades on the trade from Zach Harper
The Athletic:
https://theathletic.com/3390018/2022/06/29/wizards-nuggets-trade-grades/\

Denver Nuggets acquire Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Ish Smith
Adding Caldwell-Pope is a great move by Calvin Booth and the Nuggets. He’s kind of a perfect role player for this team. Caldwell-Pope increases Denver’s defensive capabilities on the perimeter tremendously. A team that has both Michael Porter Jr. and Jamal Murray on the floor when they’re healthy needs a defensive player like KCP, who can be very aggressive but grounded at the same time. He’s not going to fly all over the court and gamble a bunch to try to create turnovers. He’s a sound, good defender.

I don’t know if he can totally fix the Nuggets’ perimeter defense, but considering they have Aaron Gordon and the version of Nikola Jokić who competed the best he ever has on defense last season, maybe they can pull it together on that end. It’s not like the Nuggets are bad defensively. They’ve been a team in the upper half of the league in defense the past three seasons. But MPJ and Murray coming back certainly hurts what they can put on that end of the floor, and Caldwell-Pope should help alleviate some of that strain.

As for his offensive capabilities, Caldwell-Pope doesn’t do much other than cut and shoot. That’s perfect for a team centered around Jokić, the back-to-back MVP. KCP has made 38 percent of his 3-pointers in his five seasons since leaving Detroit. He made 39 percent of his 3-pointers last season for the Wizards. He’s also durable, having only missed 12 total games in the past three seasons.

As for the Smith pickup, he’s about as solid as they come as a backup point guard. He can push the pace extremely well, distribute and score a little. Losing Morris will be the toughest part of this trade for the Nuggets, but as long as Murray stays healthy and Bones Hyland continues to develop, this backcourt will be fine. Both Caldwell-Pope and Smith are only under contract for this coming season before becoming free agents in 2023, so these could be short-term solutions/options for Denver. The Nuggets also navigate luxury-tax land a little easier with this deal.

Grade: B+

Washington Wizards acquire Will Barton, Monté Morris
I really like this move for the Wizards, as long as Beal comes back and both he and Kristaps Porziņģis stay healthy. The latter part of that is going to be the trickiest part of anything the Wizards do. Beal is expected to re-sign on a full max deal with the Wizards, so unless something dramatic changes in the next couple of days, Wizards fans should rest easy on that. As for the health of Beal and Porziņģis moving forward … you know what, let’s talk about Barton and Morris.

Morris is the prize of this acquisition. Ever since John Wall got injured and eventually moved, the Wizards have struggled to keep a point guard around Beal. Russell Westbrook had a good one-year stint there. Spencer Dinwiddie made it half a season before he was moved. The Wizards need a steady, dangerous point guard next to Beal, and Morris should be able to provide exactly that. Morris started nearly every game for the Nuggets last season with Murray missing the entire year. And he was really good.

Morris shoots the ball well, scoring 12.6 points per game on 58.3 percent true shooting. He’s a good playmaker, averaging 4.4 assists in just under 30 minutes per game while playing in an offense designed to get Jokić all of the playmaking opportunities. And he had over a 4:1 assist-to-turnover ratio last season. For his career, Morris clocks in at a nearly 5:1 assist-to-turnover ratio (4.77:1). He’s really good running an offense and being a threat out there when you double hard against the stars of the team. Complementing and playing off Beal will be easy for him, and we know he can run a two-man game with Porziņģis.

Barton is a solid wing to replace Caldwell-Pope. He’s not the defender we saw with KCP, but he can be active and disruptive in the right system. Offensively, he can score in bursts, and he’s a good enough 3-point shooter. He’s made 36.8 percent of his 3-pointers over the last six seasons. That won’t set any records, but it’s a steady shooting stroke above league average for more than half a decade.

Barton has one year left on his deal, and Morris is signed through the 2023-24 season. It’s a good roster adjustment by Tommy Sheppard.

Grade: A-

Clutch Points: B
https://clutchpoints.com/grading-nuggets-wizards-4-player-trade-ahead-of-nba-free-agency/