Butler Has Torn Labrum In Left Hip

[fishercob]

Slight labrul tears like Caron has are difficult to see on MRI's. Furthermore, there's no difference in treatment course for tears and strains -- rest and PT, and surgery as a last resort if it doesn't respond. Furthermore, the only way to know if the injury has healed is to try working it out and see how it holds up. Caron gave it a go and had a setback. The only person who knows how Caron felt and feels is Caron. So unless the medical staff pushed Caron into playing against his will (which they clearly did not) they're simply not to blame here.

Seeing his team floundering and the wizards realgm board with its collective panties in a bunch, Caron likely valiantly tried to suck it up and get back on the court. He had a setback. It happens.

But since we're on a message board and there's no real accountability for spewing nonsense, someone has to be to blame. Fire the medical staff. Fire the coach. How can they all be so stupid when it's so obvious to all of us?!?

[Rafael122]

But its not the first time the medical staff has been burned on these types of things. I'm surprised that not one of the former Wizards/Bullets players haven't sued Abe and his doctors for medical malpractice. Butler should if he never comes back to form.

And the sad thing is, the local media will turn a blind eye towards this and just say "it happens." BULL. ****. You have decades worth of proof.

Regarding Butler himself, get the surgery now, and try and come back for the playoffs if its not serious.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Exactly. How people can even justify the medical staff on this is downright hilarius.

This is not a first time thing a player on this team found out weeks after his injury what actuall happened.

Give me a break. These guys are paid tons to take care of millioare athletes. They are completely incompetent if they can't detect a torn labrum despite all the technological advances in the medical field.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't want to sound defeatist, because for sure I'd love to see Les Wiz surprise someone in the 1st round. But I would hate to risk permanent injury to Caron or Gil by making them come back too early.

This was not a championship team before all the injuries. You can debate that, but we definitely won't be a contender if Gil or Caron are permanently hobbled by forcing an early come back.

If this had happened about two weeks ago (i.e. before the trade deadlines), I would have proposed shipping Jamison for multiple first round picks, put Gil and Caron out to pasture to get completely healthy, let the young guns get seasoned, and tank, tank, tank for Michael Beasley.

[OK, now you can call me defeatist...]

I think this is very wise, and not at all defeatist, Wiz99.

The race doesn't go to the swift or the strong but to the finisher. I think the race is to improve the franchise over time with solid moves.

Right now, the long term success of the franchise IMO rests on the health of Caron Butler. Gil might go or he might not, but Caron's locked up over time as is Haywood.

Everything indicates recover for Caron, but recency says the healing is slow. Gil rushed back and we see how that turned out. Let's not repeat the same thing and have Caron rush back.

At the same time, why continue to ride DeShawn and Antonio hard like horses and put them up wet til they break down?

I think longterm says just compete with healthy bodies, don't rush anybody back, don't play anybody with debilititating injuries to the point you ruin them.

And makes some changes in the medical staff.

Just be realists and compete with healthy, young, bodies and maybe call up the 10-day player now.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'd say don't purposely tank, but shut Gil and Caron down for the year, and give the young guns the bulk of the minutes. We may not win a ton, but come next year, Noodles and Proof should have a ton of experience, and we may just get a nice draft pick out of it.

I'm worried that Tawn and Gil (especially Gilbert) won't want to come back after this whole thing though.

That IS the concern, Soup. What you said last.

Organizationally, the guys need to all come clean on their various agendas. Money, wins, and the belief in the organization long-term. It's gonna take some first class strategic planning to keep the Wizards together IMO.

Gil seems to want to play with Antawn. Gil's talked proudly of when he gets back. But Gil's loyalty is in Sprewell mode, feeding his family and the longterm security that the contract will give him. We know he's a west coast guy. I have one thing I TRULY RESPECT about Gil, and that's he's up front about what he wants.

How can the Wizards sign Antawn, sign Gil, get Gil and Caron healed, keep the ship afloat this season with the guys they have, and end this season on a feel good tip?

The way I see it is most of all, guys have to be together, win or lose.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Wow, you guys do a lot of worrying.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Eddie Jordan has one great strength, and that's he's a good team chemistry kind of guy.

hands, there's absolutley no way of keeping this team from splitting up if Eddie's not the coach. I can't see it.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wow, you guys do a lot of worrying.

In real life, I'm managing crises way bigger than what the Wizards have.

It's more like playing the hand you're dealt, Donk. I'm not worried at all and I'm sleeping well.

The Wizards have a ton of injuries and their marquee guy can bolt. The league leader in +/- can bolt. The GM's done a great job at everything but planning on an injury-depleted roster. He's up against the cap.

To me, there are a lot of things that can happen.

EJ has a whole lot to deal with. What's in his control is the coaching part. Many of us complain about him riding certain guys, but honestly, he's like the captain of the Titanic right now.

I don't think it's worry, Donkey, as much as it's being realistic about things.

[jivelikenice]

Every year at leats 2 of our big 3 go down. Why?? EJ plays them too many minutes. It was ridiculous for Arenas to play 40+ minutes after coming off surgery and it was ridiculous for Butler to play that Lakers game. EJ is a good coach but has NO IDEA on how to manage minutes.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I say just play the young guys and say f it every night.

Beat the Hornets. That means the talent is there.

Just don't expect consistency.

Maybe they can squeek into the playoffs. Maybe not.

Just have a good time and go for it.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

-= original quote snipped =-

In real life, I'm managing crises way bigger than what the Wizards have.

It's more like playing the hand you're dealt, Donk. I'm not worried at all and I'm sleeping well.

The Wizards have a ton of injuries and their marquee guy can bolt. The league leader in +/- can bolt. The GM's done a great job at everything but planning on an injury-depleted roster. He's up against the cap.

To me, there are a lot of things that can happen.

EJ has a whole lot to deal with. What's in his control is the coaching part. Many of us complain about him riding certain guys, but honestly, he's like the captain of the Titanic right now.

I don't think it's worry, Donkey, as much as it's being realistic about things.

I wasnt referring directly to you, just in general....yes many things can happen. People actually think Gil will leave because of this? Is that realistic? (again not directed at you..just in general).

I know its an internet board, so say what you want, but people here love to blow things out of proportion.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

I say just play the young guys and say f it every night.

Beat the Hornets. That means the talent is there.

Just don't expect consistency.

Maybe they can squeek into the playoffs. Maybe not.

Just have a good time and go for it.

Exactly, play to win, but first JUST PLAY. I have a feeling Caron and Arenas will be back this year. WHy? Just a feeling and why not hold out hope, there is always hope. Then again, im not a Debbie downer.

[hands11]

[quote="doclinkin"][/quote]

If there are any around that remember the Bullets run, help me out.

Didn't we have some players hurt running up to the playoffs and then snuck up on those teams.

The internet is so handy. Found my own answer.

IN A SEASON WHEN THE TEAM WAS SO INJURY-PLAGUED

The 1978 NBA-champion Washington Bullets
http://www.nba.com/wizards/history/00820532.html


Kevin Grevey was moved from small forward to was moved from small
forward to guard ( could this be Tough Juice )

Bob Dandridge - that would be AJ maybe

On January 13, they handed Portland -- the defending NBA champion -- just its fifth loss of the season That might have been the regular season's peak, because things went steadily downhill from there.

( Jan 12 and 14 we beat Boston in back to backs giving them their 5th and 6th losses )

In one game against Golden State on January 15, Mitch Kupchak injured his thumb and was eventually out for 15 games

(Jan 15 AD was out for a few game and on Jan 29th CB went out for 2 games, returned for 2 games ( playing 39 and 32 mins - leaving injured ) and has miss 10 games since = 12 games. 3 more games makes 15 getting us to Fri 07 vs TOR)

And They Still Play On
In mid-March the Bullets were still playing with only three guards as they continued to struggle with injuries. At one point (March 21), there were not even enough healthy bodies for a full-court scrimmage.

A New Beginning
The Bullets worked out the kinks in the first-round playoff series with Atlanta, sweeping the Hawks in three games. Atlanta's tough-nosed defense prepared the Bullets for the challenges that lay ahead as they advanced to meet the Central Division champion San Antonio Spurs. San Antonio was led by the high-scoring "Iceman," George Gervin, who finished as the league's regular-season scoring champ.

The Rest is history for the read on the link I posted.

[doclinkin]

I don't see the schedule being as weak as you say it is. Yes, we do have a nice stretch of 5 home games against winnable competition but outside of that the schedule not all that inviting. Orlando twice, Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit...those aren't good matchups for us. That 5 game west coast road trip in late March will be painful as it always is, Portland, Seattle (winnable), Sac (that team is tough at home), Lakers & Jazz. That's a tough trip even with a healthy squad. In April, 4 of our 8 games are against Boston, Detroit, Orlando and Philly who's the mix right now for a 6-8 seed.

By April Boston will have clinched most everything they need to clinch and may well be resting that short roster for the playoffs. Detroit often goes into late-season shut down, though their bench is strong enough by itself.

Orlando and Philly are near to the last games of the season. The premise is that Caron and Gil are back by then. I don't count out Chicago or Milwaukee either, but it seems to me with everybody back we've got as good a chance as anybody to get into a groove and catch hot the last couple weeks: re-earn a playoff ticket then 'katy bar the door'.

If we can put in work and make the playoffs there's no team in particular that scares me. Well, Toronto, actually, since we can't guard the three, but slipping back a few slots keeps us safer there (as of today Toronto would face the 5th seed no?).

You think this team wouldn't lick it's chops to face Boston again? Even with Cassell and PJ Brown. And this time with Gil & Caron both back? None of it will be easy, but if we do survive it we'll be battle tested and playoff-ready fighting back from adversity the whole way, just the way this team seems to like it.



Hey, we may even have Etan back by then....

What? Why's everyone looking at me like that? What'd I say? What?...

[newslowsad]

An update from Ivan:

From the sources I spoke with today, I can provide the following information: The Wizards are optimistic that Caron Butler will have a chance to return to basketball activity after an unspecified period of rest (it could be anything from one to three weeks depending on how he feels.) No timetable has been set.

At no point did anyone I spoke with bring up the word "surgery" and Caron in the same sentence. And in talking to people who deal with hip issues, there is a real difference of opinion as to whether surgery is an effective way to repair a labral tear anyway.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Unspecified period of rest. Good thing they didn't give another (Please Use More Appropriate Word) timetable because the ones they give are never right.

[Rafael122]

Wouldn't be surprised if the medical team tells him to get hip replacement surgery (I know, dumb joke, but with this med team, would you be surprised?).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

They need to get as many other opinions as they can.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

SWEET, 2-3 weeks.....

maybe 1day, 2 days..naw 2-3 weeks!!!!

[gowiz999]

SWEET, 2-3 weeks.....

maybe 1day, 2 days..naw 2-3 weeks!!!!

Which really means 2-3 months in Wizards Medical Team speak.

Days = Weeks; Weeks = Months; Months = Years;