So, who is our 2009-2010 starting sg?

[KF10]

I believe he's referring to the 2010-11 season.

Why would he do that? The 09-10 season is the next season from now.

[Kanyewest]

I would consider trading Kevin Martin and the #23 for the #2 if the Wizards can also unload Stevenson and/or Songailia. There's also the wait and see approach where the Kings might actually just take Rubio at #1 while Griffin could fall into the laps of whoever has the 2nd pick.

[Dat2U]

I don't see it. We gauged Martin's value in the last year's draft, Martin isn't worth the #1/#2 picks but he has more value than #3 and so on. So, he is between the #2 and #3 in terms of value. In that is a stronger draft class pool than this one. So, IMO anything other the #1/#2 is just short of value.

And saying Martin isn't an all star talent is wrong. Even though, he is not chosen into the All star games, (it is basically a popularity contest), doesn't means that he isn't an all star talent. Martin is producing at an all star talent for couple of years now. I don't really want to get into a tangent about this but I don't your deal isn't quite good enough.

You said it yourself. He's not worth the #1 or #2. So that's it in a nutshell. Your not getting him for Griffin or Rubio. We can all agree on that.

He may be worth more than the #3 but where does that leave you? Either keep him, trade him for another vet or trade him for less than your perceived value.

Also I didn't say Martin isn't an all-star talent, I said he's not quite an all-star. He's never been to the game so it would be false of me or you to call him one. We can argue whether he performs at that level or not but I think that we can agree that being a #1 option on a lousy team doesn't help his case much.

[Kanyewest]

Why would he do that? The 09-10 season is the next season from now.

Nate usually makes long term projections of the cap for the team. His biggest concern in the 08 offseason was the fact that the Wizards would be over the luxury tax in the 09-10 season.

[KF10]

You said it yourself. He's not worth the #1 or #2. So that's it in a nutshell. Your not getting him for Griffin or Rubio. We can all agree on that.

He may be worth more than the #3 but where does that leave you? Either keep him, trade him for another vet or trade him for less than your perceived value.

Also I didn't say Martin isn't an all-star talent, I said he's not quite an all-star. He's never been to the game so it would be false of me or you to call him one. We can argue whether he performs at that level or not but I think that we can agree that being a #1 option on a lousy team doesn't help his case much.

I said from last year's draft not this years draft. Rose/Beasley>Rubio/Griffin. For this years draft, Martin (and plus assets) does have the value to garner the value here IMO.

And the Martin/All star thing, I agree with you.

[KF10]

Why would he do that? The 09-10 season is the next season from now.

Nate usually makes long term projections of the cap for the team. His biggest concern in the 08 offseason was the fact that the Wizards would be over the luxury tax in the 09-10 season.

Yeah, probably you are right. But from here from next season, I think anything can happen in terms of cap flexibility. So, the projection is true but it is not always going to happen like that if changes were to occur.

[nate33]

I believe he's referring to the 2010-11 season.

Why would he do that? The 09-10 season is the next season from now.

I'm just pointing out the long-term ramifications. The 09-10 season would be bad too because we'd still have some combination of Etan, James, Songaila and Stevenson on the roster in addition to the starting 5 (not to mention all the young guys on rookie contracts).

It would appear that my job on this board is to throw cold water on most trade proposals. The Wizards simply don't have the financial flexibility for most trades to be feasible. Acquiring $10M+ guys like Kevin Martin, Vince Carter and Mike Miller just isn't gonna happen.

[KF10]

I'm just pointing out the long-term ramifications. The 09-10 season would be bad too because we'd still have some combination of Etan, James, Songaila and Stevenson on the roster in addition to the starting 5 (not to mention all the young guys on rookie contracts).

It would appear that my job on this board is to throw cold water on most trade proposals. The Wizards simply don't have the financial flexibility for most trades to be feasible. Acquiring $10M+ guys like Kevin Martin, Vince Carter and Mike Miller just isn't gonna happen.

As you mention it, you are probably right. Those huge deals of Jamison and Arenas are cap killers in a sense. Not saying it negatively but those deals occupy so much capspace that obtaining players around the 10M+ range is unlikely.

[pancakes3]

I'd be willing to trade Butler + Songaila + Stevenson for Martin + Francisco Garcia

[doclinkin]

I said from last year's draft not this years draft. Rose/Beasley>Rubio/Griffin.

I would take Blake Griffin ahead of Beasley. I'd think about him over Rose, except that Gil next to Rose would be too pretty to pass up. And even then, I'd debate with myself.

Rubio, I'm mixed on since I've only seen a few full games on grainy video pirated from Eurofeeds. Plus Olympic competition. But people who know these things say he's the real deal. My read, this year's top two = last year. And FGarcia ain't worth a player from either year. It's not like the Kings were winning all 65 games he played last year. A nice player, but not super special.

[LyricalRico]

I'd be willing to trade Butler + Songaila + Stevenson for Martin + Francisco Garcia

Done and done.

[KF10]

I would take Blake Griffin ahead of Beasley. I'd think about him over Rose, except that Gil next to Rose would be too pretty to pass up. And even then, I'd debate with myself.

Rubio, I'm mixed on since I've only seen a few full games on grainy video pirated from Eurofeeds. Plus Olympic competition. But people who know these things say he's the real deal. My read, this year's top two = last year. And FGarcia ain't worth a player from either year. It's not like the Kings were winning all 65 games he played last year. A nice player, but not super special.

Really? I'm not sure about that. As much I like Griffin, Beasley is the better prospect in college than Griffin.

I'd be willing to trade Butler + Songaila + Stevenson for Martin + Francisco Garcia

I don't see it. Butler isn't the difference maker for Sacramento. He is in the middle of his prime. 28, I believe? I doubt Butler will lead the 17-win Kings to a historical improvement. Besides, I don't think Butler is better than Martin at all. At best, they are in the same tier. And we throwing the Garcia too? That's too much dude! The Kings were the worst team in the league but they are not dumb. haha

[DaRealHibachi]

I still think Butler is the better overall player...

The point can be made that Martin is the better shooter/scorer, but that's pretty much it... And even the scorer part is arguable, since Butler is the second/third scoring option on our team, whilst Martin is your first...

Butler is a better passer, rebounder, probably better man to man defender (haven't seen Martin play much, so i can't really say)... I think Butler is also more durable... and that's really saying something...

[nate33]

The point can be made that Martin is the better shooter/scorer, but that's pretty much it... And even the scorer part is arguable, since Butler is the second/third scoring option on our team, whilst Martin is your first.

Nah. It's not arguable. Martin scores a lot more points with a ridiculous TS% (60-62% in the past 3 seasons). Butler can't touch that kind of efficiency, even with others drawing defensive attention from him.

[pancakes3]

Well then if we can't negotiate a deal with either the #3 or Butler then i don't think there's a trade possible here. let's revive the portland/rudy f trade talks.

#4 + Young for Rudy F + #24

Wood/McGee
Jamison/Blatche
Butler/DMac
Rudy/Terrence Williams
Arenas/Critt

[KF10]

I still think Butler is the better overall player...

The point can be made that Martin is the better shooter/scorer, but that's pretty much it... And even the scorer part is arguable, since Butler is the second/third scoring option on our team, whilst Martin is your first...

Butler is a better passer, rebounder, probably better man to man defender (haven't seen Martin play much, so i can't really say)... I think Butler is also more durable... and that's really saying something...

Like nate said, Butler isn't close as a scorer/shooter like Martin But then again that can be said to many players when comparing Martin's overall offense to others. haha Martin is one of the most efficient guards in recent history.

Both Martin and Butler are awesome talents either way.

[nate33]

Well then if we can't negotiate a deal with either the #3 or Butler then i don't think there's a trade possible here. let's revive the portland/rudy f trade talks.

#4 + Young for Rudy F + #24

Wood/McGee
Jamison/Blatche
Butler/DMac
Rudy/Terrence Williams
Arenas/Critt

That's a bit much for Rudy. Is Rudy so much better than Young that's it's worth the #4 pick in the draft?

I'd like to see #4 + Stevenson for Rudy. My guess is that Portland isn't really all that interested in a high pick in this draft though (unless it's Rubio). I don't think any of the second-tier PG prospects in this draft are enough of an improvement over Blake/Bayless that it's worth them giving up Rudy.

[pancakes3]

Well #4 + Young may be overpaying but #4 + Stevenson is underpaying. I think if you factor in the dirt cheap contract, the Manu-esque potential, the need factor, and the weak draft it's not overpaying for Rudy by much.

Maybe a middle ground of #4 + Songaila can be negotiated since they have a glut of guards with Martell Webster coming back. They would probably use the pick on Earl Clark as a SF of the future since their current SF is Travis Outlaw. We could then use the 24th pick to essentially replace Songaila with Hansborough.

[doclinkin]

I would take Blake Griffin ahead of Beasley. I'd think about him over Rose, except that Gil next to Rose would be too pretty to pass up. And even then, I'd debate with myself.

Really? I'm not sure about that. As much I like Griffin, Beasley is the better prospect in college than Griffin.

Nope. Beasley will make a nice hybrid SF in the league. He's got a toolkit of shiny offensive utensils and a knack for rebounding. But the only area where he has Blake beat cold is Free Throw shooting, and confidence in his 3pt shot. And since he's not a player with a turbo-boost jump, he's had to rely more heavily on his midrange and face-up game in the NBA, where before he could also dominate in the low-post with a floor routine of acrobatic attack moves. There are plenty of players bigger than Beasley in the NBA. But there are few players more powerful/athletic than Griffin.

Beasley's more skilled than Griff, true, but If their production was the same in college-- while Blake was less polished-- consider how much better Blake's production will be when the raw power develops a more advanced skill set. I take Blake 10 times out of ten over Beasley. And 10 out of ten over Martin.

Seems to me, if Rubio stays in, whomever gets the first or second pick in this draft will take a ton of convincing to give up the chance. No second tier star will budge them, no cap issue will force a move. Superstars make up all the difference in luxury tax overages by drawing in a larger fanbase, selling out lux suites, bumping up ad revenue. Now trading up/down between the 1 &2 is workable, with a swap of various stars/filler/contracts. But I doubt we'll see someone trade out entirely or trade down.

Since we're talking Sacramento, maybe Eddie Jordan takes the job, if so I expect we'd be decent trade partners for them since our guys know his version of the offense and can help him get off to a quick start. Spencer Hawes is a good fit for the hybrid Princeton as a Big who can pass well and has a face-up game. You need role players at various spots on the court though.

You have any other trade proposals that would deliver an SG to DC?

[KF10]

Nope. Beasley will make a nice hybrid SF in the league. He's got a toolkit of shiny offensive utensils and a knack for rebounding. But the only area where he has Blake beat cold is Free Throw shooting, and confidence in his 3pt shot. And since he's not a player with a turbo-boost jump, he's had to rely more heavily on his midrange and face-up game in the NBA, where before he could also dominate in the low-post with a floor routine of acrobatic attack moves. There are plenty of players bigger than Beasley in the NBA. But there are few players more powerful/athletic than Griffin.

Beasley's more skilled than Griff, true, but If their production was the same in college-- while Blake was less polished-- consider how much better Blake's production will be when the raw power develops a more advanced skill set. I take Blake 10 times out of ten over Beasley. And 10 out of ten over Martin.

Seems to me, if Rubio stays in, whomever gets the first or second pick in this draft will take a ton of convincing to give up the chance. No second tier star will budge them, no cap issue will force a move. Superstars make up all the difference in luxury tax overages by drawing in a larger fanbase, selling out lux suites, bumping up ad revenue. Now trading up/down between the 1 &2 is workable, with a swap of various stars/filler/contracts. But I doubt we'll see someone trade out entirely or trade down.

Since we're talking Sacramento, maybe Eddie Jordan takes the job, if so I expect we'd be decent trade partners for them since our guys know his version of the offense and can help him get off to a quick start. Spencer Hawes is a good fit for the hybrid Princeton as a Big who can pass well and has a face-up game. You need role players at various spots on the court though.

You have any other trade proposals that would deliver an SG to DC?

I see. You make several points but I still think Beasley is considered better though. And I like Griffin a lot. Hopefully, your projections about Griffin comes true if he is drafted by the Kings.

But anyways, SG for Washington huh?

The only SGs we have that are not named Kevin Martin is:

Francisco Garcia
Rashad McCants

I'm not sure you guys are interested in these players. Well, probably you guys are interested in Garcia perhaps.