Kevin Seraphin

[dobrojim]

Isn't that from the beginning of last season? That's the worst looking pic I've ever seen of him. He doesn't seem that chunky now.

That would be the rookie pix from early last year

when he was just recovering from a knee injury

[sfam]

KS does look like he needs to get his body-fat % dolan and lift-more when u compare the photo from a couple of years ago. Miami has a personal chef and nutritionist for their players.

Blatche is our personal chef.

{Halftime conversation at any game}
"Hey, you'll wanna go bar hoppin after the game"

[hands11]

Pancake

Come on man

Those comparisons are kind of silly.

First, yes, everyone has been saying quick for his size.

taj gibson 6-9 225
Ibaka 6-10 235

Those are not his size.


Elton brand 6-9 250
Al jefferson 6-10 290
D Howard 6-11 265

You are talking about seasoned vets and some of the best in the game in your post.

You are totally changing the conversation from what it was about.

KS is just getting started and finally looking like you can keep him on the court for 20 minutes. No one is comparing him to those other players.

[pancakes3]

hah. hands... listen. you listed "quick footed" and "fast running in a straight line" and "soft touch around the rim" as his strengths. i was merely pointing out that he's not fast, quick, nimble, or offensively skilled enough to make it in the league. why not? because there's much quicker, faster, nimbler, and offensively skilled out there. what seraphin brings to the table that others don't is his bulk, sound defense, and hustle. long story short, you made a list of 11-12 things that he was "good" at and i was merely saying that 3-4 of them don't belong. i don't see what was so outrageous about that.

[hands11]

hah. hands... listen. you listed "quick footed" and "fast running in a straight line" and "soft touch around the rim" as his strengths. i was merely pointing out that he's not fast, quick, nimble, or offensively skilled enough to make it in the league. why not? because there's much quicker, faster, nimbler, and offensively skilled out there. what seraphin brings to the table that others don't is his bulk, sound defense, and hustle. long story short, you made a list of 11-12 things that he was "good" at and i was merely saying that 3-4 of them don't belong. i don't see what was so outrageous about that.

But the context of my post was in to add/comment to this post.

"I can't stand the way Seraphin is being developed. When I saw him in the Hoops Summit he was slim, cut and active. They have been developing him to be a backup center in the league. He's 6'9, isn't an exceptional athlete and that's when he's actually in shape. He shouldn't even be playing for the Wizards and it's so arrogant for him to be benched here when he obviously could be developing pf skills in Europe. At this point I'd be surprised if his option was picked up."

For has a combination of size and quickness and runs well up and down the court well. He certainly isn't slow by contrast. My list described a package. Sure they are lighter players who are quicker and faster and there are established stars who are better. I was just describing that as a package, there is opportunity for him and on the previous page I was saying it looks like he is finally settling to the point that he can stay on the floor longer to develop.

For a kid that was a project, I see progress and opportunity.

[pancakes3]

and i'm saying quickness and speed is not part of his package!

[leswizards]

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS11.HTM#bypos

A few posters have questioned Seraphin's ability to be a PF. Right now the numbers show him to be a competent PF, while being an awful C. Granted, it is a limited sample size, and his number are largely coming against back up players.

[nate33]

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS11.HTM#bypos

A few posters have questioned Seraphin's ability to be a PF. Right now the numbers show him to be a competent PF, while being an awful C. Granted, it is a limited sample size, and his number are largely coming against back up players.

Those numbers are meaningless. Seraphin hasn't played a minute of PF all season. 82games.com probably listed him as a PF because position designated is generated by a pre-selected criteria. Generally, they consider the tallest person the center. (There are exceptions for well-known players. They ranked KG as a PF alongside Perkins, for example.) When Seraphin is alongside Blatche or Vesely, they probably considered Seraphin the PF and Blatche/Vesely the center. As proof, I cite Vesely's numbers, which indicate that he played the majority of his minutes at center.

[Ruzious]

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS11.HTM#bypos

A few posters have questioned Seraphin's ability to be a PF. Right now the numbers show him to be a competent PF, while being an awful C. Granted, it is a limited sample size, and his number are largely coming against back up players.

I'd question the validity of that breakdown - even with the small sample size. Notice none of his top 20 combos is with McGee. What they're assuming is that he was the PF when teamed with Vesely and Blatche - which I think is a dubious assumption.

Btw, I concur with Pancakes' comments. He's an okay athlete, but he's not particularly quick or fast for any position, and he hasn't shown anything that indicates he's a PF - other than being bad at center. Maybe eventually he becomes a decent backup, but when you have a "project" you usually want a higher upside than Seraphin's.

Edit - Nate beat me to it on the 82games.com stats.

[montestewart]

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS11.HTM#bypos

A few posters have questioned Seraphin's ability to be a PF. Right now the numbers show him to be a competent PF, while being an awful C. Granted, it is a limited sample size, and his number are largely coming against back up players.

From that data, I wonder how they determined when he was playing PF? Looking at the top 5 man units he played in, they must have been counting times when he played w/ Blatch as him playing PF. My eyes generally tell me differently, though he might be a more effective center when playing next to Blatche than Lewis/Booker/Vesely etc. He usually is camped out down low a lot more than Blatche, though taller Blatche often goes against the opposition's center on both ends. Seraphin's style of play doesn't seem to alter too much. If his footwork evolves so he can reasonably cover faster PFs and he could consistently make that shot he made in the game against the Bulls, sure, he could be a PF.

Edit: Slow Ruzious still beat me to it on 82games. gotta be fast around here.

[Nivek]

82games determines positions almost exclusively by height. Tallest player is the center, next is PF, next is SF and so on. If you look at the lineups, they list him as the PF whenever he's on the floor with Blatche or Vesely. Seraphin is a center, period.

[tontoz]

I really don't see the logic of playing Seraphin at the 4. It is hard to find guys who have the size and desire to play inside and Seraphin has that. Why move him to the 4 when we have other guys there better suited to the position?

[Nivek]

I really don't see the logic of playing Seraphin at the 4. It is hard to find guys who have the size and desire to play inside and Seraphin has that. Why move him to the 4 when we have other guys there better suited to the position?

Especially when Seraphin doesn't possess a single PF skill. At least at center, he can be big and bulky and take up space. Of course, he hasn't rebounded like a center yet, but at least he'll knock people around, I guess.

[Ed Wood]

I really don't see the logic of playing Seraphin at the 4. It is hard to find guys who have the size and desire to play inside and Seraphin has that. Why move him to the 4 when we have other guys there better suited to the position?

Especially when Seraphin doesn't possess a single PF skill. At least at center, he can be big and bulky and take up space. Of course, he hasn't rebounded like a center yet, but at least he'll knock people around, I guess.

Probably just an attempt to find him minutes in an already crowded frontcourt. What with everybody else playing small forward, Vesely, Booker, it's like basketball osmosis.

[tontoz]

I really don't see the logic of playing Seraphin at the 4. It is hard to find guys who have the size and desire to play inside and Seraphin has that. Why move him to the 4 when we have other guys there better suited to the position?

Especially when Seraphin doesn't possess a single PF skill. At least at center, he can be big and bulky and take up space. Of course, he hasn't rebounded like a center yet, but at least he'll knock people around, I guess.

His rebound rate of 15 isn't that bad, just a little below average. For comparison

Bogut- 15.5
Jefferson- 15.8
Biedrins- 15.8
Nene- 15.9

Plus he is blocking 3.6 shots per 36 and shooting 70%+ from the line. I think he is definitely worth keeping around but he just isn't a 4.

[closg00]

For a bottom-5 NBA team, why-not give KS a few tries at PF? He had that kind of role this summer and he had some success. Vesely isn't going to shoot the ball.

[Nivek]

I really don't see the logic of playing Seraphin at the 4. It is hard to find guys who have the size and desire to play inside and Seraphin has that. Why move him to the 4 when we have other guys there better suited to the position?

Especially when Seraphin doesn't possess a single PF skill. At least at center, he can be big and bulky and take up space. Of course, he hasn't rebounded like a center yet, but at least he'll knock people around, I guess.

Probably just an attempt to find him minutes in an already crowded frontcourt. What with everybody else playing small forward, Vesely, Booker, it's like basketball osmosis.

Not much of a crowd at center.

[nate33]

For a bottom-5 NBA team, why-not give KS a few tries at PF? He had that kind of role this summer and he had some success. Vesely isn't going to shoot the ball.

This is really a semantic argument. The role of a PF versus a C is primarily defined by who they cover defensively. It's not like we forbid our PF from scoring inside, or we forbid our C from shooting 15-footers (if they can hit that shot). What matters is that when Seraphin is on the floor, he should always cover the opposing center unless he is playing alongside McGee. And I see no reason to play him alongside McGee because to do so, he'd have to earn minutes from more effective players (Booker, Vesely, Lewis).

[Nivek]

I really don't see the logic of playing Seraphin at the 4. It is hard to find guys who have the size and desire to play inside and Seraphin has that. Why move him to the 4 when we have other guys there better suited to the position?

Especially when Seraphin doesn't possess a single PF skill. At least at center, he can be big and bulky and take up space. Of course, he hasn't rebounded like a center yet, but at least he'll knock people around, I guess.

His rebound rate of 15 isn't that bad, just a little below average. For comparison

Bogut- 15.5
Jefferson- 15.8
Biedrins- 15.8
Nene- 15.9

Plus he is blocking 3.6 shots per 36 and shooting 70%+ from the line. I think he is definitely worth keeping around but he just isn't a 4.

For a guy who's a self-check offensively (career ortg of 94 -- a 90 this season; a guy with a turnover rate at 20% in both seasons so far (800 total minutes)), rebounding and defense would figure to be his contributions. His defense is okay -- he's at least blocking some shots now. "A bit below average" on the boards isn't exactly something to be thrilled about. Especially considering that he doesn't have the skills to play another position.

[closg00]

Playing Seraphin alongside McGee is what CCJ orginally proposed and I am a co-signer. What would be the harm in trying it a few times?