Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[Ruzious]

so why is kawhi leonard rated higher than chris singleton?

Because he's younger, a better rebounder, a better passer, a better scorer (though they're both essentially terrible at that right now), and has done very well in workouts.

He projects to be nearly as good of a defender, but also a more complete player in every other facet of the game. That's the reasoning, whether you agree with it or not.

Who's reasoning? I don't think passing and scoring can be considered an advantage for either - and it wouldn't surprise me to see Leonard slide. I think Leonard's advantages are in his wingspan and quickness. While Singleton's an outstanding defender, I think he got a little top-heavy, and I think that could hurt him defending quicker 3's. Unless he loses weight and adds quickness, he might end up being better at defending 4's. Singleton's injury - to me - really cost him, as he lost momentum in improving his game.

[thinker07]

thinker, I think Hamilton and Thompson would be late 1sts in an average draft. Hamilton is overrated, imo. I wouldn't want him on the Wiz. He's a slow forward and offensive-oriented player that takes too many bad shots. I also sensed watching him that he's a whiner when things aren't going his way.

Yes this is a below average draft. There are very few prospects (if any) that people would agree are can't miss guys. I really doubt that the Wiz will try to trade out of the draft - they need more pieces now. So that's what we have. If the best fit for the Wiz at #6 would be the 15th pick in a better draft - so what? I'm not saying that I must have Jordan Hamilton, I more meant that Hamilton and Thompson seem to be the "type" of players that we are presumably looking to add. The type being players who, in Flip's words "can get out and run with John. High motor guys. Defensive oriented guys." I am absolutely not a talent evaluator - so maybe EG doesn't think that Hamilton fits that description better than say Leonard or Vesely or whoever. My point is accept that this is a weak draft and at least get the guy who EG thinks can help us the most even if the player has less "value" than you ideally get out of a #6 pick.

[theboomking]

so why is kawhi leonard rated higher than chris singleton?

Because he's younger, a better rebounder, a better passer, a better scorer (though they're both essentially terrible at that right now), and has done very well in workouts.

He projects to be nearly as good of a defender, but also a more complete player in every other facet of the game. That's the reasoning, whether you agree with it or not.

Who's reasoning? I don't think passing and scoring can be considered an advantage for either - and it wouldn't surprise me to see Leonard slide. I think Leonard's advantages are in his wingspan and quickness. While Singleton's an outstanding defender, I think he got a little top-heavy, and I think that could hurt him defending quicker 3's. Unless he loses weight and adds quickness, he might end up being better at defending 4's. Singleton's injury - to me - really cost him, as he lost momentum in improving his game.

What makes you think Singleton isn't as quick? All of Singleton's athletic measures were superior, including no step vert, max vert, max vert reach, sprint, bench press, and agility testing. Singleton was also widely considered the best defender in the country last season. I also view Singleton's weight as a positive, as it is his combination of speed and strength that gives him the ability to guard 4's and 2's. The only significant advantages that Leonard has, are wingspan, youth, and rebounding.

Leonard was also significantly less effective from 3 point range, hitting 29.1% of his shots from that range vs Singleton's 36.8 percent. That is not an insignificant detail given that we really want to focus on soacing the floor for Wall, and need players that can hit from the perimeter.

I'd take Singleton every day of the week based on stats and scouting reports. Unlike Williams however, who I watched a lot, I didn't get to see much of Singleton or Leonard with my own eyes.

[Rafael122]

What about the idea of adding Okur and giving them Seraphin? Okur is on the last year of his deal, they may be bringing back AK-47 so they would probably have to pay the luxury tax.

Maybe something like the #3 and Okur for the #6. Bench would be stronger for sure with Crawford and Okur coming off the bench, we could work a good inside/out game. I don't know, I'm thinking off the top of my head here. You would hope Okur plays well enough that we could flip him for a pick at the deadline or something, similar to what we did with Hinrich, excuse me, K-Honey.

Something like that would be contingent on the NBA allowing BOYD deals to occur even though nobody knows for sure what the new cap will look like. If you recall, we agreed to the Hinrich dealon draft night but could not complete it until after July 1 when the Wiz actually had the cap space. Not sure how the NBA will treat such a scenario this year, but if they were to allow it I'd be all for your idea.

Re-sign Young:

Wall/Young/Lewis/Blatche/McGee starting lineup with Crawford, Kanter, Okur leading the way on the bench. Add Singleton or someone of that ilk, you've got Booker as well.

[Dat2U]

Kawhi Leonard is going to be a terrible offensive player. It's one thing to have a very suspect jump shot. But the red flag for me is Leonard's inability to finish around the rim. He's not that athlete were making him about to be. He's just very long with big hands. He's closer to Julian Wright or Jared Jeffries than Gerald Wallace or Shawn Marion. Wright & Jeffries could handle the rock a little and make the right pass in college but struggled to finish or shoot.

Kawhi Leonard may have a 10 year NBA career but he doesn't look like a guy that's going to be a starting SF in this league. His one NBA skill may be rebounding. Congrats, Dominic McGuire can rebound too.

[theboomking]

Kawhi Leonard is going to be a terrible offensive player. It's one thing to have a very suspect jump shot. But the red flag for me is Leonard's inability to finish around the rim. He's not that athlete were making him about to be. He's just very long with big hands. He's closer to Julian Wright or Jared Jeffries than Gerald Wallace or Shawn Marion. Wright & Jeffries could handle the rock a little and make the right pass in college but struggled to finish or shoot.

Kawhi Leonard may have a 10 year NBA career but he doesn't look like a guy that's going to be a starting SF in this league. His one NBA skill may be rebounding. Congrats, Dominic McGuire can rebound too.

I agree with you here.

[Firewall]

Ford 5.0 has Kanter falling to us at 6 and taking Hamilton at 18

[montestewart]

Ford 5.0 has Kanter falling to us at 6 and taking Hamilton at 18

That and best available PG, swingman, or project big at 34 would be a fine draft.

[Rafael122]

Ford 5.0 has Kanter falling to us at 6 and taking Hamilton at 18

That's an A+ draft, two guys would be ready to step in right away.

The "negatives" on Hamilton per Ford:
Lacks lateral quickness
Can get a little selfish
Shot selection is questionable

But he runs the floor well, very good shooter, not afraid to do the dirty work, good rebounder and an improving passer. Count me in on this pick.

[Rafael122]

Ford 5.0 has Kanter falling to us at 6 and taking Hamilton at 18

That and best available PG, swingman, or project big at 34 would be a fine draft.

JaJuan Johnson, Chandler Parsons, Nolan Smith, and Jordan Williams are some notable names in his next five out. As is Charles Jenkins.

I would take Smith if he's there at 34, our draft would have our back up big man, a shooter off the bench to go along with Crawford or if we want to play big, put him in the lineup, and then have our 10 mpg point in Smith. Smart, heady player.

[pancakes3]

is singleton making his way up the draft board or is he still obtainable with the 18? i really want that kid, and with every passing day i'm grow more convinced he's the next luc mbatu whatever.

[Benjammin]

is singleton making his way up the draft board or is he still obtainable with the 18? i really want that kid, and with every passing day i'm grow more convinced he's the next luc mbatu whatever.

Most mocks seemed to have moved him into that 11-14 range. I doubt he is available at 18.

[Ruzious]

What makes you think Singleton isn't as quick? All of Singleton's athletic measures were superior, including no step vert, max vert, max vert reach, sprint, bench press, and agility testing. Singleton was also widely considered the best defender in the country last season. I also view Singleton's weight as a positive, as it is his combination of speed and strength that gives him the ability to guard 4's and 2's. The only significant advantages that Leonard has, are wingspan, youth, and rebounding.

Leonard was also significantly less effective from 3 point range, hitting 29.1% of his shots from that range vs Singleton's 36.8 percent. That is not an insignificant detail given that we really want to focus on soacing the floor for Wall, and need players that can hit from the perimeter.

I'd take Singleton every day of the week based on stats and scouting reports. Unlike Williams however, who I watched a lot, I didn't get to see much of Singleton or Leonard with my own eyes.

[/quote]
Why do I think Singleton's not as quick? Because I've seen them play, and I saw a pretty clear difference. Fwiw, NBAdraft.net agrees with me. They gave Singleton a 7 for quickness and Leonard a 9 for quickness. I think if Singleton lost some of his excess upper body weight, he could make it closer, but Leonard passes the eye test as clearly the quicker player. But as I alluded to before, I'm NOT saying Leonard is the better player or prospect of the 2.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

I like the new Rotoworld Mock, it's well-written and appears to not be a rehash of other writers mocks.
http://www.rotoworld.com/slide/nba/146/NBA-Draft-4.0

That one was a few weeks old, but they just updated with their mock 6.0...
http://www.rotoworld.com/slide/nba/164/NBA-Draft-6.0
They've got us passing on Jonas and Leonard for Vesley, and then passing on all sorts of people for Josh Selby at #18. Let's just say I'd go to bed PO'd after that draft.

[Dat2U]

Like someone else just mentioned, Tristan Thompson may be worth a closer look at 6.

If there's anything we are in desperate need of, it's low post defenders. Thompson is clearly the best low post defender in the draft. Better than Kanter, Jonas or whoever you can throw in there.

I'd be satisfied if we came away with a low post defender like Thompson and a perimeter defender like James Singleton.

I'm no longer considering Biyombo. The age concerns & rawness offensively have frankly just scared me away.

[dobrojim]

^ I assume that was a typo and you meant Chris (Singleton) not James.

[Ruzious]

Like someone else just mentioned, Tristan Thompson may be worth a closer look at 6.

If there's anything we are in desperate need of, it's low post defenders. Thompson is clearly the best low post defender in the draft. Better than Kanter, Jonas or whoever you can throw in there.

I'd be satisfied if we came away with a low post defender like Thompson and a perimeter defender like James Singleton.

I'm no longer considering Biyombo. The age concerns & rawness offensively have frankly just scared me away.

I here you about not considering Biyombo, but he is in the draft, and he's probably a better defender than Thompson. And Thompson is also extremely raw offensively.

[Illuminaire]

I don't think passing and scoring can be considered an advantage for either - and it wouldn't surprise me to see Leonard slide. I think Leonard's advantages are in his wingspan and quickness. While Singleton's an outstanding defender, I think he got a little top-heavy, and I think that could hurt him defending quicker 3's. Unless he loses weight and adds quickness, he might end up being better at defending 4's. Singleton's injury - to me - really cost him, as he lost momentum in improving his game.

RE: passing, Singleton gets 1.6 assists and 2.9 turnovers. That's terrible.

Leonard gets 3.2 assists and 2.7 turnovers. That's double the assists, with less overall turnovers. Passing is strongly in Kawhi's favor.

Scoring, I agree, could be a wash. They both suck at it, and both were asked to do more than they should have.

[Illuminaire]

Kawhi Leonard may have a 10 year NBA career but he doesn't look like a guy that's going to be a starting SF in this league. His one NBA skill may be rebounding. Congrats, Dominic McGuire can rebound too.

Just to clear this up, Leonard is a MUCH better rebounder than McGuire. More than 2 boards per/40 (and Mcguire was 2 years older when he posted his best numbers). That's actually a large gap. Comparing them at the same age, Leonard pulled down 4.5 more boards/40, and his TRB% was 13% higher, which is officially ridiculous.

Shoot down his, er, shooting all you want. But let's not compare him to McGuire anymore... it's lazy and wrong. They're different players physically, in NBA position, and in their skillset.

[fishercob]

I don't know dick about Tristan Thompson. However, I'm leery of this need to acquire a "low post defender" up at 6. Dallas just won the NBA title. Their top 3 mpg players were Dirk, Terry and Caron Butler. In the finals, they started 38 year-old Jason Kidd and 5'9 JJ Barea!

Yes, Tyson Chandler and Haywood are beasts in the middle. Yes, while nowhere near as atheltic as he once was, Marion is still a great defender.

But I am more and more convinced that great team defense is just that -- and that you don't need great individual defenders who can "shut their man down" to be a good defensive team.

Athleticism is nice, sure. But give me smart and team oriented guys and a good defensive coach/scheme over supposed great one-on-one defenders.