Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

[Nivek]

I wouldn't include Paul George, but in addition to Lebron and Durant, I would take these guys over Carmelo -- Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, Kawhi Leonard and Faried. I included some PFs because Carmelo played more PF than SF this season (as did Lebron).

I don't know, Nivek. I know there are serious questions about Melo's efficiency and D...and rightfully so. But he is easily one of the top 3-4 offensive weapons in the NBA, especially in the half-court. There may not be a player in the league with a more diverse offensive game. And that matters a lot, especially at crunch time when Melo is often at his best...as others have pointed out.

I don't think any smart GM would take a Griffin, Faried and Leonard over Melo. Griffin's half-court offense sucks. In fact, I think his offensive game has stagnated (or peaked). Plus his free throw shooting is awful, and that's an important reality in close games.

Faried is a great rebounder and energy guy but he's never, ever going to be close to the kind of go-to scorer that Melo is. Leonard I like and he may indeed someday be comparable to Melo, but he's not there yet.

I'd take Paul George over Griffin, Faried and Leonard.

Don't want to hijack the draft thread, and I also don't want folks to think I dislike Carmelo. I think he's a very good player, and I have a lot of respect for his ability. That said: Go-to scorer is valuable, but...it's one thing. As long as the conversation is limited to Carmelo's thing -- taking lots of shots and scoring -- he can be terrific. Look at the totality of things needed to win games, and...he's not as terrific. Especially when the impact of his strength (scoring) is dampened by the way he plays -- reducing his efficiency by taking difficult shots, and not being a willing passer to open teammates to help the team be more efficient.

[pancakes3]

a) Let's not get too caught up in the weights lest we forget the lesson of Durant's bench.
b) Like pcbothwell said - those are "bumper plates". You can possibly find similar ones at your gym. They're the rubber ones.
c) The knee scar is gruesome but at least it's not a foot issue.
d) My friend was a 3-star football recruit before breaking his leg, damaging his growth plate. No ligament damage, and it didn't stop him from growing properly. The major concern is that it'll heal crooked. If Noel had overcome the injury already, I think he dodged the growth rate bullet that heals normally 70-80% of the time anyway.

I'd trust doctors over the "look" of the injury. Like I said - my friend has an equally hideous knee scar but the way he moves you'd hardly know it. Other people though that have twisted their knee, etc. don't have nearly as big a scar and their athleticism is severely hampered.

[closg00]

2nd round stashers.
http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... ayers-look

[stevemcqueen1]

Don't want to hijack the draft thread, and I also don't want folks to think I dislike Carmelo. I think he's a very good player, and I have a lot of respect for his ability. That said: Go-to scorer is valuable, but...it's one thing. As long as the conversation is limited to Carmelo's thing -- taking lots of shots and scoring -- he can be terrific. Look at the totality of things needed to win games, and...he's not as terrific. Especially when the impact of his strength (scoring) is dampened by the way he plays -- reducing his efficiency by taking difficult shots, and not being a willing passer to open teammates to help the team be more efficient.

Carmelo's teams win though. He won an NCAA championship in his lone year. He's won gold medals. And his NBA teams have always finished above .500. He's never missed the playoffs and, with the exception of maybe one or two pretty good years from Iverson, Carmelo has always been the sole star on his NBA teams.

I'll give you Davis, I think he's one of the best building blocks in the game. And maybe I'd give you Blake since his potential is still so massive. But if you would really take guys like Kawhi Leonard and Kenneth Faried to build your team around instead of Melo, then I'll take Melo and my team will kick your team's butt.

This is something I can see we're simply never going to agree on. I think you base your analysis entirely on statistics. I fundamentally disagree with that approach.

[GhostsOfGil]

2nd round stashers.
http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... ayers-look

Ernie gonna Ernie

[jivelikenice]

I don't think that picture changes anything. We already knew he was skinny and needed to get stronger. We already knew about the knee injury. It's disappointing that he's not getting better training than he's getting, but that's something his future team should be able to fix. The bright side in that pic is...at least he's working out. Also worth remembering is that Noel just turned 19. He has a lot of physical development to do, but that's pretty normal for a 19-year old. If he's willing to work and has good training (which presumably an NBA team (yes, even the Wizards) should be able to provide), he'll add significant muscle over the next 4-5 years.

That photo wouldn't dissuade me from picking him. He's still third in YODA behind Oladipo and Zeller.

Pretty much everyone in the draft is 19 so that doesn't really differentiate him. Him working out is also not a positive. Its like a participation ribbon at field day. This pick is too important to the franchise to gamble on a prospect with serious medical red flags before you even get into him as a prospect.

[Dark Faze]

I mean the look of the injury is bad, but guys get those scars from that surgery and it looks like he still had some swelling at the time of the picture.

Its nothing to worry about.

I still go Noel if he falls to us, Porter otherwise.

[LyricalRico]

Finally getting around to reading about about Muscala. Sounds like a great option if he falls to 38.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I'm guessing the reported front office debate is Ernie likes Bennett and Ted likes Otto.

I guess we'll see who makes the call.

[tontoz]

4) This lockout is too high and the weight is embarrassing. For comparison sake, I am 6'1, 200lbs (sub 10% body fat). I can bench press 345lbs (touch and go off chest). My lockout at the height Noel is doing could be somewhere around 420-445lbs(I am far from advanced)...He is doing 185..nuff said.

Final Thoughts: Some of these Basketball players are training like ****.

I thought he just had a knee injury. I didn't realize that he lost his testicles.

[Nivek]

Don't want to hijack the draft thread, and I also don't want folks to think I dislike Carmelo. I think he's a very good player, and I have a lot of respect for his ability. That said: Go-to scorer is valuable, but...it's one thing. As long as the conversation is limited to Carmelo's thing -- taking lots of shots and scoring -- he can be terrific. Look at the totality of things needed to win games, and...he's not as terrific. Especially when the impact of his strength (scoring) is dampened by the way he plays -- reducing his efficiency by taking difficult shots, and not being a willing passer to open teammates to help the team be more efficient.

Carmelo's teams win though. He won an NCAA championship in his lone year. He's won gold medals. And his NBA teams have always finished above .500. He's never missed the playoffs and, with the exception of maybe one or two pretty good years from Iverson, Carmelo has always been the sole star on his NBA teams.

As I explicitly stated above, I have a lot of respect for Carmelo. I just don't think he's in that elite category. That said, Carmelo had some quite good teammates including Billups, Nene, Camby, Iverson, and Andre Miller. Carmelo may have been deemed a sole star of his team, but Billups was an elite PG, Nene was underrated in his prime, Camby was a top defender and rebounder, and Andre Miller is one of the more underrated PGs in league history. Much as I LOVED watching him play, Iverson was overrated most of his career, but was still a very good player. This season, Carmelo had Tyson Chandler -- a top shelf defensive big man.

(Side note: One of my favorite basketball memories was going up to Philly with my brother to watch Iverson and the Sixers beat the Antoine Walker/Paul Pierce Celtics in the playoffs. Had midcourt seats in the upper deck. It would be a couple more years before the Wizards would get back in the playoffs.)

I'll give you Davis, I think he's one of the best building blocks in the game. And maybe I'd give you Blake since his potential is still so massive. But if you would really take guys like Kawhi Leonard and Kenneth Faried to build your team around instead of Melo, then I'll take Melo and my team will kick your team's butt.

Maybe if it was one-on-one or pop-a-shot. We'd each be able to pick other players, and scoring would be something fairly easily addressed at other positions.

Awhile back, I did this contest on RealGM where I divided up the league into groups of 25 (or was it 30?) players and had contestants pick a team -- one from each group of players. I think we gave away a t-shirt. It was an interesting exercise. Incredible variety in the teams. Some were terrible, many were excellent. If I recall correctly, CCJ and Ruzious did very well. I don't remember who won. Might be interesting to dust off that idea again.

My guess is that if we did that exercise right now, neither of us would pick Carmelo.

This is something I can see we're simply never going to agree on. I think you base your analysis entirely on statistics. I fundamentally disagree with that approach.

I incorporate my statistical analysis strongly, but they're not everything. As I mentioned previously, there are players who rate better than Carmelo in my stat, but I would still take Carmelo ahead of them to build a hypothetical team.

[Ruzious]

That was fun, Kev. You should dust it off and do it again. I think I did well mainly because I had a few Spurs on my team - Duncan and Ginobili - don't recall if I had Parker.

[theboomking]

Yeah, rocky. Almost as soon as I posted that, I sorta came back to what I've always thought -- pick the guy you think is going to be the best pro. In this draft, I think that guy is Oladipo. He's at the wrong position, but I think you just take him and figure it out. Look for a trade down the road.

Right. Let the minutes work themselves out over time. It will all be okay. Plus, I think Oladipo could conceivably be a good defender at the 3, which would completely negate any potential issues with the position overlap.

If Oladipo really is the best prospect, we have to take him. Now, if he's only the "best" by a very small margin, or it's a toss up, then I understand if you'd feel more comfortable taking the traditional SF. But if you really believe Oladipo is the best, then you take him, and you don't look back.

This is a more extreme example, but consider what happened, or rather, could have happened, a few years ago. In 2010 we draft Wall 1st overall. He has a very good rookie season for a 19 year old PG, and there's plenty of hope and optimism going forward. He's 100% our PG of the future. But let's say we lucked out and won the lottery the next year. It's 2011 and we're picking 1st overall. Do you pick Kyrie Irving or Derrick Williams? No, we don't NEED a guy at Irving's position, because we already have one, but that doesn't change the fact that Irving is the better player of the two and the best player available. The right move is to pick the best player, and let the minutes sort themselves out as we go. If Irving ends up being so good that we can't justify him backing up Wall and spending a lot of minutes "out of position" at SG, then we can trade him at that time. He'll have a ton of value, because he's the best player available. We are not at a point where we have an established contending roster from top to bottom, with one small hole. We have all sorts of holes. Don't take a worse player just because he's a couple inches taller than the other guy who's way better than him. It's DUMB.

I agree with this whole heartedly. If Otto is better, choose him. If Oladipo is better, I would choose him. Shoot. Minnesota is supposedly very high on him. If he pans out, trade him for Love in 2 years.

[pancakes3]

They make RealGM tshirts? I can't decide if I absolutely must have one or will never ever wear it. Probably both.

[Knighthonor]

The Wizards need another player other than Wall who has great handle as a starter. Look at the Heat for example.

[stevemcqueen1]

The Wizards need another player other than Wall who has great handle as a starter. Look at the Heat for example.

Meh, I actually don't like the way the Heat are constructed right now. I think they are making it work but it's not ideal. LeBron is such a streaky shooter that it's almost cost them a championship. They need to put the maximum amount of shooters around him that's possible. And it just isn't working with him and Wade on the floor at the same time.

We need to do the same with Wall. The SG and SF need to be GREAT shooters and, ideally, we'd have a PF that can shoot way better than his position. Three 3 point and mid range shooters on the court with Wall at the same time is a great line up. I'd sacrifice ball handling for shooting for our team. Wall is very ball dominant any way and he's a great facilitator.

[REDardWIZskin]

Im tired of picking Raw prospects that need development, I don't trust this current regime to do so (they have not given me much reason to do so). This is part of the reason I am hoping for Porter. He is not quite a totally refined or polished player but he's further ahead IMO than any of these prospects.

I also don't like how EG and Whitt keep throwing around how they don't want to add three rookies to this team. It seems very near sighted. Im not opposed to trading one of the picks but I'd at least prefer to wait until draft night. You never know who may fall. For a team whose bench consisted or the Garret Temple, Cartier Martin, Trevor Booker, Chris Singleton, Jan Vesley and AJ Price. I don't see how we could be dismissive and act as if 2 more rookies along with whomever we pick at #3 wouldn't be an upgrade over at least two of those guys. Not to mention they would be making much smaller salaries.

[jivelikenice]

The Wizards need another player other than Wall who has great handle as a starter. Look at the Heat for example.

I don't know if another starter is needed as much as a backup capable of filling in adequately. I also think a guy like Porter is versatile enough to help fascilitate things as a passer from the 3 spot which should help.

[Nivek]

They make RealGM tshirts? I can't decide if I absolutely must have one or will never ever wear it. Probably both.

Don't know if they still have them. I had one for awhile, I think. If I remember correctly, I got it covered with paint and ended up tossing it. That could be a different shirt, though.

[Upper Decker]

What does the RealGM shirt say?

My guess is..."Guaranteed to crash during every keynote moment"