Kevin Seraphin

[Nivek]

My post above sounds a bit more critical of Seraphin than I actually am. He's like basically everyone on the Wizards roster -- some physical tools and potential, but hundreds of hours of work away from being a good NBA player. Could he become an NBA PF? Sure -- if he's willing to spend hundreds hours working on ball-handling and a jumper. Could he become a quality NBA center? Sure -- if he's willing to spend hours in the weight room getting even stronger, and then in the gym working on an inside game, and then hours in film study learning his defensive rotations and how to defend taller players in the post.

It is 100% about how much work he's willing to put in.

[tontoz]

I am not thrilled about it but last year his defensive rebounding was really horrible. He was averaging only 3.9 defensive rebounds per 36 last season which is off the charts bad for a center. So far this season he is averaging almost 7 per 36 which is a pretty big improvement assuming he keeps it up.

[leswizards]

For a bottom-5 NBA team, why-not give KS a few tries at PF? He had that kind of role this summer and he had some success. Vesely isn't going to shoot the ball.

This is really a semantic argument. The role of a PF versus a C is primarily defined by who they cover defensively. It's not like we forbid our PF from scoring inside, or we forbid our C from shooting 15-footers (if they can hit that shot). What matters is that when Seraphin is on the floor, he should always cover the opposing center unless he is playing alongside McGee. And I see no reason to play him alongside McGee because to do so, he'd have to earn minutes from more effective players (Booker, Vesely, Lewis).

I think Booker has been effective. I am not going to lose any sleep if Lewis loses at minutes at PF, and Vesely was drafted to be a SF. I realize he has limited skill sets to play the SF, but I want him to develop to fill the hole he was suppossed to fill.

I believe that coaches should play players where they have proven to be most effective, and for whatever reason, Seraphin's per is much more impressive when he is paired with people who are taller than him (having said that his opponets per is also very impressive in those situations, and his win % is awful). Granted, it could be due to limited sample size or other circumstances. All I am saying is I would like to get more evidence so to be able to make a judgement as to whether Kevin Seraphin can play PF along side McGee and Blactche.

[Nivek]

The stat goober folks have calculated that about half of defensive rebounds are really "team" rebounds, meaning that if Player X didn't grab the defensive board, then Player Y from the same team would have. How many of Larry Hughes's defensive boards were literally taken from the hands of a teammate? Defensive rebounding is important, but it's as much about team as it is about individual abilities. Offensive rebounding -- that's the actual individual skill.

None of this is particularly aimed at Seraphin or anyone else. The discussion just made me think of it.

[tontoz]

The stat goober folks have calculated that about half of defensive rebounds are really "team" rebounds, meaning that if Player X didn't grab the defensive board, then Player Y from the same team would have. How many of Larry Hughes's defensive boards were literally taken from the hands of a teammate? Defensive rebounding is important, but it's as much about team as it is about individual abilities. Offensive rebounding -- that's the actual individual skill.

None of this is particularly aimed at Seraphin or anyone else. The discussion just made me think of it.

That might be true of the league as a whole but with these Wizards I am not so sure. They are terrible on the defensive glass.

The thing about offensive rebounding is that if the player goes for an offensive rebound and doesn't get it, which he won't most of the time, then he will generally be trailing the play in transition.

When Childress was on the Hawks he was constantly on the offensive glass and getting praised for it because he would get putbacks. What people didn't notice is that Childress was generally the last guy back on defense which hurt their transition D.

[Nivek]

I don't see why the Wizards sucking on the defensive glass would make them an exception to the "rule" that defensive rebounding is the product of teamwork. The stat finding is that about half of defensive rebounding is related to teamwork -- something the Wizards suck at. The other half would be about individual abilities (they're real rebounds added, so to speak) and here again the Wiz don't measure up on an individual basis.

As for offensive rebounding -- it's true that sending several players to the offensive glass can hurt transition defense. Most teams nowadays have one or two guys trying to get an offensive rebound, the rest get back.

[tontoz]

I don't see why the Wizards sucking on the defensive glass would make them an exception to the "rule" that defensive rebounding is the product of teamwork.

That isn't what i was talking about. I was talking about the finding that roughly half of defensive rebounds would be picked up by a teamate (hence the bold type). That is less likely to be the case on a team that sucks on the defensive glass.

[Nivek]

I don't see why the Wizards sucking on the defensive glass would make them an exception to the "rule" that defensive rebounding is the product of teamwork.

That isn't what i was talking about. I was talking about the finding that roughly half of defensive rebounds would be picked up by a teamate (hence the bold type). That is less likely to be the case on a team that sucks on the defensive glass.

Maybe.

It could just be that the proportion stays about the same, but at a lower level than a good team. Dunno.

[montestewart]

A team that blocks out well helps its players get rebounds and (presumably) has a better DRB%. Where a team is not so good at blocking out and enabling its players to get the DRB, a defensive rebound may be that much more attributable to individual effort. Maybe a good defensive rebounder on a lousy rebounding team would be an excellent defensive rebounder on a good rebounding team that blocks out. Might be kind of hard to track that statistically, but it makes sense.

[tontoz]

Great game tonight, 12/7 in only 18 minutes, many of those against Howard. That one play when Howard did a spin move and went up to dunk only to get punk'd was awesome.

Seraphin showed some nice touch around the basket too.

[LyricalRico]

^ Yeah, he looked good. He just needs to pretend that he's going against Dwight every night. LOL

[no D in Hibachi]

I've come to eat a bit of crow on Seraphin. I've blasted him in the past, justifiably, but he's looked servicable resently. McGee always plays like a coward against Howard, but Seraphin drops the purse and mans up.

[nate33]

I've come to eat a bit of crow on Seraphin. I've blasted him in the past, justifiably, but he's looked servicable resently. McGee always plays like a coward against Howard, but Seraphin drops the purse and mans up.

I won't eat any crow yet. I've said all along that he looks like he could be a decent backup. The only thing that has changed is that now it looks like he will be a decent backup. I'm still not convinced that he'll turn out to be much more, but tonight was the first night that I even entertained the notion that he could one day be a starter in this league.

[7-Day Dray]

I've come to eat a bit of crow on Seraphin. I've blasted him in the past, justifiably, but he's looked servicable resently. McGee always plays like a coward against Howard, but Seraphin drops the purse and mans up.

That's why you gotta be more patient with the young guys. I'm not going to go ga-ga over Seraphin just yet, but you don't see me trashing him like I see some of you doing. I can see the same thing happening the Vesely in a few games.

[jivelikenice]

I've come to eat a bit of crow on Seraphin. I've blasted him in the past, justifiably, but he's looked servicable resently. McGee always plays like a coward against Howard, but Seraphin drops the purse and mans up.

That's why you gotta be more patient with the young guys. I'm not going to go ga-ga over Seraphin just yet, but you don't see me trashing him like I see some of you doing. I can see the same thing happening the Vesely in a few games.

Absolutely agree. Its insane how quickly people on this board are ready to write off prospects. I'm not saying Seraphin has arrived, but Blatche getting hurt and getting CONSISTENT minutes is the best thing that could have happened to him. He has the size and skill to do what he did today....but its on him to prove that he can do this repeatedly.

[pancakes3]

I've come to eat a bit of crow on Seraphin. I've blasted him in the past, justifiably, but he's looked servicable resently. McGee always plays like a coward against Howard, but Seraphin drops the purse and mans up.

I won't eat any crow yet. I've said all along that he looks like he could be a decent backup. The only thing that has changed is that now it looks like he will be a decent backup. I'm still not convinced that he'll turn out to be much more, but tonight was the first night that I even entertained the notion that he could one day be a starter in this league.

+1. the same criticisms stand and his shot at sticking around is to do his best kendrick perkins impression, which he did last night.

[LyricalRico]

^ IIRC it took Perkins his entire rookie contract to develop, so I'm willing to be patient.

That being said, if a guy's projected ceiling is "good backup", then he's far from off-limits in trade scenarios.

[Rafael122]

All it took was Wittman giving these young guys more minutes. PLAY THEM and see what you have, or else we're never going to find out if they can play or not. The season is lost, give these minutes to Vesely and Kevin, and see what they can do.

[nate33]

if a guy's projected ceiling is "good backup", then he's far from off-limits in trade scenarios.

Exactly.

[tontoz]

I think many people are underestimating Seraphin. I think all he really needs is experience. He is a bruiser with good mobility who has a legit jump hook and can make foul shots. His form actually looks decent on his jumper.

I think if Seraphin got 20+ minutes consistently for a few months his WTF plays will go way down and people will realize that he actually already has pretty good skills. He just needs to chance to use them and build up his confidence.