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2012 NBA Draft - Part V

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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#821 » by payitforward » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:55 am

Knighthonor wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Oklahoma City Thunder – The Thunder hold pick No. 28, but it’s unlikely that they’ll keep it. Sources close to the situation say that Oklahoma City is satisfied with their young core and they aren’t interested in paying a prospect guaranteed money when he likely won’t be part of the rotation. The Thunder will likely trade or sell the pick. If they aren’t able to move the selection, expect them to draft a foreign player who they can keep overseas for several years.

We should be able to trade our #33 straight up for the #28 just to help them avoid taking on a guaranteed contract.

what you believe the wizards should get from that deep in?

any big roleplayers in mind?

There will be a bunch of rotation NBA players in the 2d round of this draft. Note that I just started another thread strictly for round 2 discussion.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#822 » by closg00 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:56 am

dangermouse wrote:What was all that stuff about Wall mentoring MKG in his interview? Should we read between the lines there?

Also:

Drummond to workout for Wizards monday


Someone puncture the tyres on EG's car that day please.


:lol: He is going to make a safe pick this time, it will be either Barnes or Beal.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#823 » by KrayzUpside » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:56 am

I’ve been reading this board for a while and got the jest of the pros and cons of Beal, MKG, Barnes, T-Rob, etc…

I think what the Redskins did to get RGIII makes a lot of sense when it comes to shaping a playoff roster and ultimately a championship contender. The QB is the most important player on team and those teams set at that position are usually in the playoffs with a shot.
How does this apply to the Wizards? Well the Skins had the 6th pick and the Wizards have the 3rd.

Both teams don’t want and don’t expect to be picking this high in the future. That is why taking advantage of drafting this high to get a game changing talent is critical. The Skins made a gutsy call this year because they’ve been picking high for the last decade and it wasn’t showing results in the Wins/Loss column. The Wizards need to make a gutsy call and pick the only guy not named Anthony Davis that can be a franchise changer. That man is Andre Drummond.

I know he might not have the mental make up to reach his potential, but you have to take a chance in this business. Taking a gamble on him could mean the difference between being a perennial 6 or 5 seed with Beal/MKG/T-Rob , a la the Pacers, SIxers, and Atlanta or a serious championship contender every year like the Spurs or the Lakers.

I understand that keeping Wall happy is important and he needs & asked for wing help to space the floor. And Drummond might not be ready for a couple years, but if we do that deal for the 10 pick and take on Ariza and Okafor, he won’t have the pressure to produce right away and learn and mature behind solid vets. We would be competing at least and that might be enough to keep Wall believing in a long-term future here.

Wall/ (10) Ross/Ariza/Nene/Okafor
Mack/Craw/C.Singleton/ KSer /(3)Drummond
Depth: Jan V/ Book /J.Singleton/2nd Rounder (D.Lamb)

That’s a playoff team with room to grow after the expensive vets expire and insurance for the injuries that are sure to come.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#824 » by 7-Day Dray » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:26 am

^^You sir, deserve a round of applause.

If we pick Drummond or Barnes, I'm good.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#825 » by DCZards » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:31 am

KrayzUpside wrote:
Both teams don’t want and don’t expect to be picking this high in the future. That is why taking advantage of drafting this high to get a game changing talent is critical. The Skins made a gutsy call this year because they’ve been picking high for the last decade and it wasn’t showing results in the Wins/Loss column. The Wizards need to make a gutsy call and pick the only guy not named Anthony Davis that can be a franchise changer. That man is Andre Drummond.

I want Beale and would be cool with MKG or TRob. But Drummond is probably the guy. The thought of not drafting him is a little scary. His physical potential is damn near otherwordly and I liked the shooting touch and form he showed on the Sac workout vid that someone just posted. That would be the gusty move.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#826 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:33 am

KrayzUpside wrote:I’ve been reading this board for a while and got the jest of the pros and cons of Beal, MKG, Barnes, T-Rob, etc…

I think what the Redskins did to get RGIII makes a lot of sense when it comes to shaping a playoff roster and ultimately a championship contender. The QB is the most important player on team and those teams set at that position are usually in the playoffs with a shot.
How does this apply to the Wizards? Well the Skins had the 6th pick and the Wizards have the 3rd.

Both teams don’t want and don’t expect to be picking this high in the future. That is why taking advantage of drafting this high to get a game changing talent is critical. The Skins made a gutsy call this year because they’ve been picking high for the last decade and it wasn’t showing results in the Wins/Loss column. The Wizards need to make a gutsy call and pick the only guy not named Anthony Davis that can be a franchise changer. That man is Andre Drummond.

I know he might not have the mental make up to reach his potential, but you have to take a chance in this business. Taking a gamble on him could mean the difference between being a perennial 6 or 5 seed with Beal/MKG/T-Rob , a la the Pacers, SIxers, and Atlanta or a serious championship contender every year like the Spurs or the Lakers.

I understand that keeping Wall happy is important and he needs & asked for wing help to space the floor. And Drummond might not be ready for a couple years, but if we do that deal for the 10 pick and take on Ariza and Okafor, he won’t have the pressure to produce right away and learn and mature behind solid vets. We would be competing at least and that might be enough to keep Wall believing in a long-term future here.

Wall/ (10) Ross/Ariza/Nene/Okafor
Mack/Craw/C.Singleton/ KSer /(3)Drummond
Depth: Jan V/ Book /J.Singleton/2nd Rounder (D.Lamb)

That’s a playoff team with room to grow after the expensive vets expire and insurance for the injuries that are sure to come.


How did the Wizards acquire the 10th pick?
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#827 » by KrayzUpside » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:08 am

They didn't. Its just speculating on a potential trade. There are rumors that NO is offering a BYOD deal with the 10.

The Wiz should try to get another first one way or another. After watching the combine, guys like Harkless and J.Taylor are wings that can eventually be starters in this and can be had later in the first round. They would be late lotto picks in a weaker draft. Harkless in particular reminds me of Paul George.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#828 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:28 am

KrayzUpside wrote:They didn't. Its just speculating on a potential trade. There are rumors that NO is offering a BYOD deal with the 10.

The Wiz should try to get another first one way or another. After watching the combine, guys like Harkless and J.Taylor are wings that can eventually be starters in this and can be had later in the first round. They would be late lotto picks in a weaker draft. Harkless in particular reminds me of Paul George.


I know they haven't actually acquired the pick, was wondering what move you have being made to get that deal done.

I thought the knock on Harkless was that he played more like a power forward than SF.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#829 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:49 am

KrayzUpside wrote:They didn't. Its just speculating on a potential trade. There are rumors that NO is offering a BYOD deal with the 10.

The Wiz should try to get another first one way or another. After watching the combine, guys like Harkless and J.Taylor are wings that can eventually be starters in this and can be had later in the first round. They would be late lotto picks in a weaker draft. Harkless in particular reminds me of Paul George.


I spent way too much time on a post in the trade thread and I will post here, too.

nate33 wrote:This is ridiculous. We're not trading down from #3 to #10 just to dump Blatche. That's an extremely shortsighted and foolhardy move. If we don't want to amnesty Blatche for financial reasons, then keep him and wait until next year (when Lewis is off the books) to find a quality free agent.

And Nene will start. He's the best player on the team. It would be silly to bring him off the bench. Let Seraphin beat up on second string centers.


nate, I don't think it is shortsighted or foolhardy. I disagree with you and Dat and others who think placement in the draft is necessarily a big deal. Number three is often not as good as number ten.

Selected NBA Draft Picks, 2002-2011

2002 -- #3 Mike Dunleavy Jr., #10 Caron Butler
Other picks in 2002: #2 Jay Williams, # 5 Nikola Tskitishvili, #6 DeJuan Wagner, #7 Nene, #8 Chris Wilcox, #9 Amare Stoudemire, #11 Jared Jeffries, #35 Carlos Boozer)
Amare was the best player. Caron and Boozer have better than solid Mike Dunleavy Jr. So has Nene.

2003 -- #3 Carmelo Anthony / #10 Jarvis Hayes :o
Also in 2003: #1 James, #2 Darko, # 3 Wade, #4 Bosh, #6 Chris Kaman, #18 David West, #29 Josh Howard, #47 Mo Williams
This was the great draft! You definitely wanted 3 over 10 that year.

2004 -- #3 Ben Gordon / #10 Luke Jackson
Other 2004 picks: #5 Devin Harris, #7 Luol Deng, #9 Andre Iguodala, #15 Al Jefferson, #20 Jameer Nelson
Another year 3 was better than 10, but the best players were #15 and #9 by far, Jefferson and Iggy.

2005 -- #3 Deron Williams / #10 Andrew Bynum
Other picks from 2005: #1 Bogut, #2 Marvin Williams, #4 CHRIS PAUL, #17 Danny Granger
Deron Williams is great and so is Andrew Bynum, but there are fewer great big men. Number 10 was better than 3 IMO. The best player probably is Paul with healthy. Still that year a trade down to 10 would have been good.

2006 -- #3 Adam Morrison /#10 Mohammed Sene
Other picks from 2005: #2 LaMarcus Aldridge, #6 Brandon Roy, #11 JJ Redick, #21 RAJON RONDO, #24 Kyle Lowry, #32 Steve Novak, #47 Paul Millsap
That year both picks 3 and 10 were busts. Rondo and Millsap are the best players. Trade down would have been superb that year.

2007 -- Al Horford / Spencer Hawes
Other notable 2007 picks: #6 Yi Jianlian, #9 Joakim Noah, #12 Thaddeus Young, #15 Rodney Stuckey, #16 Javaris Crittenton, #22 Jared Dudley, #23 Wilson Chandler, #24 Rudy Fernandez, #25 MO ALMOND, #31 Carl Landry, #35 Glen Davis
Number 3 all the way, but Noah is not that far behind Horford IMO. Another feasible trade down. Some pretty good depth in this draft. Glen Davis is better than where he was pick.

2008 --#3 O J Mayo / #10 Brook Lopez
Also from 2008: #1 Derrick Rose, #3 Russell Westbrook, #4 Kevin Love, #7 Eric Gordon, #17 Roy Hibbert, #18 Javale McGee, #24 Serge Ibaka, #25 Nikolas Batum, #34 Mario Chalmers, #35 DeAndre Jordan
Number 10 was the better player over #3. I thought it was crazy for Westbrook to go before Love, but now I see why, though Love is still better IMO. OKC really did well getting Hibbert and so did Portland with Batum.


2009 -- #3James Harden / #10 Brandon Jennings
Others from 2009: #4 Tyreke Evans, #5 Ricky Rubio, #7 Seth Curry, #17 Jrue Holiday, #18, Ty Lawson, #19 Jeff Teague, #20 Eric Maynor, #21 Darren Collison, #26 Taj Gibson, #37 DeJuan Blair, #46 Danny Green
Now we see why Harden was selected before Evans. It took a couple years for Harden to emerge. Note a lot of serviceably good PGs were selected 10 and later. Lawson IMO is just as good a Wall right now or better. Holiday is not far behind.

2010 -- #3 Derrick Favors /#10 Paul George
Others from 2010: #1 John Wall, #5 DeMarcus Cousins, #7 Greg Monroe, #17 Kevin Seraphin, #18 Eric Bledsoe, #19 Avery Bradley, #23 Trevor Booker, #27 Jordan Crawford, #39 Landry Fields
Once again, ten is arguably better than three. Favors isn't there yet but I think he will be good in a couple years. George is better but Monroe IMO is the best player from this draft. Cousins is really solid. Half the Wizards are from this draft. :)

2011 -- #3 Enes Kanter / #10 Jimmer Fredette
Others from 2011: #1 Kyrie Irving, #2 Derrick Williams, #4 Tristan Thompson, #6 Jan Vesely, #7 Bismack Biyombo, #8 Brandon Knight, #9 Kemba Walker, #11 Klay Thompson. #15 Kawhi Leonard, #17 Iman Shumpert, #18 Chris Singleton, #22 Kenneth Faried, #25 Marshon Brooks, #28 Norris Cole, #34 Shelvin Mack, #36 Jordan Williams, #38 Chandler Parsons, #44 Charles Jenkins, #45 Josh Harrelson
Both 10 and 3 are not ready from 2011. Kanter is a great rebounder but he is very slow. This draft the Wizards board blew away NBA scouts. Many of you and I knew about Faried and Leonard.

nate, the reason I did this post was just to show you guys who seem to think trading down is ridiculous that it isn't necessarily true at all.

To make a long story short, I like Lillard, Waiters, Zeller, Jeremy Lamb, Terrences Jones and Ross, Harkless and others. This board has already pegged Crowder, Denmon, Green, and I like Will Barton. This draft is going to be a draft with an all star or two coming from outside of the lottery. Possibly, two or three STARTERS will come from the mid-20s to round two. No, make that a couple starters probably will come from round two.

I would make the right trade down to get rid of Blatche even if it meant passing on Beal or MKG.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#830 » by KevinFCheng » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:00 am

^^ Oh lord. Dumping a top 3 pick to get rid of Blatche when you can just amnesty him could be one of the worst trades in NBA history.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#831 » by nate33 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:02 am

Dear God, CCJ, not this argument again.

Of course there are going to be steals late in the draft who end up better than the early picks. But that doesn't mean that we will be smart enough to find that steal.

It's not a complicated concept. The earlier you pick, the more likely you are to find a star talent. Decades of data prove this. On average, the 1st pick is better than the 2nd, the 2nd is better than the 3rd, the 3rd is better than the 4th, and so on and so on.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#832 » by hands11 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:07 am

payitforward wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:MKG didn't come off as articulate or bright to me.

Be aware that MK-G has a speech problem. He's articulate and voluble in daily life. Can't talk well in interview situations, etc.

He is described as very bright and articulate. Smart, low-key, but convincing. Great kid -- but I want Beal all the same!


YEt none of us have seen this. Who exactly is saying he is all these things. At what point exactly does his speech problem kick in ? Is it just cameras ? I'm asking honestly. Because all I have seen is the rainman interviews.

I mean I feel for the kid if he has this problem. I wish I know more about what it is exactly. But if he and Beal both good prospects, why take the one that can't shoot and can't talk in front of a camera.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#833 » by KrayzUpside » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:09 am

This draft shouldn't be tainted by Blatche at all. He doesn't need to be in the equation at all. Durmmond and an offensive minded SG or SF should be the main targets. Drummond/Ross would be a home run. In the second round, another shooter (K.English) and a big with length/rebounding to flesh out the Summer league roster.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#834 » by Knighthonor » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:11 am

DCZards wrote:
KrayzUpside wrote:
Both teams don’t want and don’t expect to be picking this high in the future. That is why taking advantage of drafting this high to get a game changing talent is critical. The Skins made a gutsy call this year because they’ve been picking high for the last decade and it wasn’t showing results in the Wins/Loss column. The Wizards need to make a gutsy call and pick the only guy not named Anthony Davis that can be a franchise changer. That man is Andre Drummond.

I want Beale and would be cool with MKG or TRob. But Drummond is probably the guy. The thought of not drafting him is a little scary. His physical potential is damn near otherwordly and I liked the shooting touch and form he showed on the Sac workout vid that someone just posted. That would be the gusty move.

But how is he so much better than KS?
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#835 » by nate33 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:15 am

We're not taking Drummond. Not with our Kwame and McGee so recent in our institutional memory. Not when Nene and Seraphin are doing a great job at center. Not when Ted has instituted a philosophy of character first. Not when we are in such dire need of wing players.

Drummond is the second-coming of Michael Olowokandi. I'm not worried about missing out on him.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#836 » by DCZards » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:18 am

hands11 wrote:
I mean I feel for the kid if he has this problem. I wish I know more about what it is exactly. But if he and Beal both good prospects, why take the one that can't shoot and can't talk in front of a camera.


MKG's ability (or inability) to speak in front of the camera should have no bearing whatsoever on the Zards decision whether or not to draft him.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#837 » by Knighthonor » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:47 am

DCZards wrote:
hands11 wrote:
I mean I feel for the kid if he has this problem. I wish I know more about what it is exactly. But if he and Beal both good prospects, why take the one that can't shoot and can't talk in front of a camera.


MKG's ability (or inability) to speak in front of the camera should have no bearing whatsoever on the Zards decision whether or not to draft him.

rumor is he is over beal for the wizards. does that mean he can shoot now?
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#838 » by doclinkin » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:57 am

Knighthonor wrote:
DCZards wrote:
hands11 wrote:
I mean I feel for the kid if he has this problem. I wish I know more about what it is exactly. But if he and Beal both good prospects, why take the one that can't shoot and can't talk in front of a camera.


MKG's ability (or inability) to speak in front of the camera should have no bearing whatsoever on the Zards decision whether or not to draft him.

rumor is he is over beal for the wizards. does that mean he can shoot now?


It means the Wiz want Beal and are trying to lull a team lower down not to trade up.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#839 » by Jimmy Recard » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:02 am

I don't think i've ever been more on the fence between two players (MKG and Beal). I want Beal for his shooting and his rebounding. I'm just a bit skeptical of his defense and his size - or lack-thereof - at the 2.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part V 

Post#840 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:33 am

nate33 wrote:Dear God, CCJ, not this argument again.

Of course there are going to be steals late in the draft who end up better than the early picks. But that doesn't mean that we will be smart enough to find that steal.

It's not a complicated concept. The earlier you pick, the more likely you are to find a star talent. Decades of data prove this. On average, the 1st pick is better than the 2nd, the 2nd is better than the 3rd, the 3rd is better than the 4th, and so on and so on.


I am not talking about the average. I am talking about having skill and an eye for talent. There is almost always a player better than 3 later in the draft. Skill comes in knowing which player it is. Just because the average says 1 is better than 2 and 2 is better than, and so on, that doesn't mean my pick at 10 won't be better than a whole lot of people's pick at 3.
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