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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#821 » by AFM » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:55 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm trying to figure out what the heck he is doing under that bench. What's the point of benching that when the spotter bars are in placed so high? Also, those weights look like 45 pound plates, which would mean he's got 315 pounds there. But the weights are labeled 25 lbs and 15 lbs so maybe it's just 175 (4x25 + 2x15 + bar). I've never seen weights that large having such a low weight.

About the knee: we don't know how long ago that photo was taken. He got hurt in January so presumably had surgery in February. If he's still swelled up like that 4 months later, that can't be good. But maybe this photo is from early May or something.


Yeah I thought they were 45 pound plates too and was like, dang he's a lot stronger than he looks.

I was wondering what kind of exercise he was doing there too since he can't get the bar to his chest. It's a weird photo. I am really curious about what the doctors have to say about that knee. That's the one thing I wish I was there in the room to hear. It's basically THE factor in whether or not I would draft Noel if he were there.

Just to recap, Len could go #1, Noel could go #2, and Bennett could go #3. Who said serious injuries hurt your draft stock?

It's actually pretty typical to do heavy lifting without a full range of motion (deadlifts, bench press). It's great for building strength.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#822 » by Nivek » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:10 pm

Back to Carmelo and "clutch" for a second. I found an old spreadsheet that had clutch shooting stats from 2003-04 through 2011-12. That's the year Carmelo and Lebron entered the league. I have in the spreadsheet 128 players with at least 100 total clutch attempts and 3.0 clutch attempts per game.

Among those players, Carmelo is tied for 26th in clutch attempts per game. With an efg of .420 in clutch situations, he ranks 106th (out of 128). Average among the group: .462.

From 2pt range: .430 -- tied for 83rd; average among the group: .448
From 3pt range: .243 -- ranking 115th (although, the rankings don't mean quite as much here because of bigs and low-attempt guys); average among the group: .338

In terms of clutch production (limited to shooting from the field -- does not include free throws), during that time span, Carmelo produced 3.1 points per game, which tied him for 62nd.

Top 5 in clutch scoring from the field during that time span (PPG)

  1. Kobe Bryant -- 4.2
  2. Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Mike James -- 4.0
  3. Michael Jordan -- 3.9
  4. Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Allen Iverson, Brandon Roy -- 3.8
  5. Ray Allen, Monta Ellis, Andrea Bargnani -- 3.7

Best clutch 3pt shooter (at least 100 attempts) -- Mike Miller. Worst (minimum 100 attempts): Carmelo Anthony.

Best efgs with at least 50 games of clutch situations:

  1. Shaq -- .570
  2. Manu -- .555
  3. Mike Miller -- .548
  4. Barbosa -- .548
  5. Steve Nash -- .546
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#823 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:20 pm

verbal8 wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
payitforward wrote:That's not to say he is a *bad* player -- overall, he's above average. That's it.

average, huh? can you name three better players at his position?


LeBron
Durant
Paul George

Paul George is arguable...I like him, but he really hasn't proven to be consistent...not sure how you can say he's better than Carmelo.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#824 » by tontoz » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:29 pm

George is a light year better than Melo on defense. His assist rate is over double Melo's. I would take George easily over Melo.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#825 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:33 pm

verbal8 wrote:In a vacuum, I can see Porter and Bennett being a toss-up. However when considering the talent level at various positions both in the league and potentially available next year, it seems that Porter and Oladipo have an edge on Bennett.

PF is already a deep position in the NBA. Next year's draft looks like it will include 3 elite PF prospects - Randle, Aaron Gordon and Jabari Parker. In generally them seem to have a post-up game and/or an ability to create for teammates that Bennett lacks. SG is arguably the weakest position in the NBA. The 2014 draft doesn't look terribly strong for the position either.

The 2nd best wing prospect seems to be a 6'6 SG who relies on isolation plays and has poor intangibles:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mario-Hezonja-6392/

SF isn't much better. Wiggins is the prize of the 2014 draft, but after that Glenn Robinson looks the most promising. He only averaged 11 ppg and needs to develop his shooting. He could well make progress similar to what Porter did, but that isn't guaranteed.

there's no way Gordon and Parker will play PF in the NBA...they're both skinny SFs
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#826 » by stevemcqueen1 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:57 pm

tontoz wrote:George is a light year better than Melo on defense. His assist rate is over double Melo's. I would take George easily over Melo.


Melo is light year's better as a scorer though. Melo is as natural an instinctive a scorer as George is unnatural and uninstinctive.

And I'm not sure George's defense is as good as Melo's offense. When the two matched up against each other in this past series, Carmelo generally scored at will on George, and this despite the fact he had a busted shoulder and his team was collapsing around him making the Knicks very very easy to defend. Melo dropped 39 on George in game 7 in a performance where utterly abused him. It was Hibbert who had to shut Melo down to get past the Knicks--and the Knicks were a one man team at that point.

LeBron abused George the next series too. I think the lion's share of George's success on D might be Hibbert's doing.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#827 » by dobrojim » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:46 pm

Nivek wrote:If Bennett is Carmelo 2.0...well, I was about to say "no thanks" but...

I think Carmelo is one of the more overrated players in the league. Terrific score whose efficiency (and impact) would be better if he used his physical tools to get good shots instead of taking so many difficult shots. And he's not a willing passer, which mutes a major benefit of having a big-time scorer in the lineup (drawing defensive attention and passing to teammates for open shots).

But, Carmelo's reputation -- and salary -- would suggest he's one of the elite players in the game, and he's just not. Unless we're focusing on stuff like points per game and possession usage. Then, yeah. His efficiency is impressive considering his shot selection. I think I could build a good team around him, but I think I could build better teams around other players.


+1

what Ruz(?) said about him being an automatic ticket to the playoff, I get and
I think that is a good analysis. My counter to that is what's his record once he gets
there? For years we've had RealGMers who have kept hammering at the idea that
you shouldn't limit the growth potential of the team. That's what Melo kinda has
done as an NBAer. He sets a high floor for his team, but a low ceiling.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#828 » by dobrojim » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:58 pm

Howard Cosell wrote:Question from a Twolves fan:

Has the Wizards brought in Cody Zeller for a workout? The man just crushed it in the last few days working out with the Twolves and the Kings. If you guys are truly looking for a stretch 4 I think Cody Zeller is starting to fly up the Draft Boards, and for good reason. Has there been any Cody Zeller talk in Wizard land?


this may have already been answered but there is a cadre of us that believes
Zeller could be the best consolation prize if Porter (and Noel) are off the board.
Others want either Dipo, Len or Bennett. It's a fascinating draft.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#829 » by verbal8 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:09 am

dobrojim wrote:
Howard Cosell wrote:Question from a Twolves fan:

Has the Wizards brought in Cody Zeller for a workout? The man just crushed it in the last few days working out with the Twolves and the Kings. If you guys are truly looking for a stretch 4 I think Cody Zeller is starting to fly up the Draft Boards, and for good reason. Has there been any Cody Zeller talk in Wizard land?


this may have already been answered but there is a cadre of us that believes
Zeller could be the best consolation prize if Porter (and Noel) are off the board.
Others want either Dipo, Len or Bennett. It's a fascinating draft.


I think there will be a lot of trades in this draft. Normally you just have a few teams selling picks and a couple dealing out of the draft for a young vet. I think this draft could look like an NFL draft in players moving up and down the draft board trying to get a guy they want or add some young, cheap depth.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#830 » by DCZards » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:00 am

If Bennett is indeed a Melo-like offensive talent and you're adding him to a team which already has two lead offensive dogs in Wall and Beal--a team on which he won't need to play a Melo- like role as the dominant scorer--you'd be crazy not to consider drafting Bennett.

When it comes to flat-out scoring, Melo may have the most diverse package of skills in the NBA. I'd take a guy like that as my third or fourth option any day.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#831 » by tontoz » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:05 am

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
tontoz wrote:George is a light year better than Melo on defense. His assist rate is over double Melo's. I would take George easily over Melo.


Melo is light year's better as a scorer though. Melo is as natural an instinctive a scorer as George is unnatural and uninstinctive.

And I'm not sure George's defense is as good as Melo's offense. When the two matched up against each other in this past series, Carmelo generally scored at will on George, and this despite the fact he had a busted shoulder and his team was collapsing around him making the Knicks very very easy to defend. Melo dropped 39 on George in game 7 in a performance where utterly abused him. It was Hibbert who had to shut Melo down to get past the Knicks--and the Knicks were a one man team at that point.

LeBron abused George the next series too. I think the lion's share of George's success on D might be Hibbert's doing.



Just because a guy scores a lot of points doesn't make him a great offensive player. Did you forget Linsanity last year, while Melo was out?

A great offensive player makes his teamates better. That has never been Melo. His assist rate was actually lower than Nick Young's this past season.

Indy's strategy was to shut down the 3 point shooters and the strategy obviously worked, since they got to the 7th game of the ECF. That strategy meant leaving man coverage on Lebron.

Indy was number 1 in defensive efficiency and their defense was 2.7 points better with George on the floor. NY was 16th in defensive efficiency and their defense was 2.5 pts worse with Melo.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#832 » by hands11 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:36 am

GhostsOfGil wrote:Jalen and Bill are doing a nice set of interviews over on the grantland channel. Here's the latest with Len

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqkEo_Pk9HI[/youtube]


When did he start speaking English ? Because, wow. He talks better then Kevin S and Ves.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#833 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:37 am

hands11 wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:Jalen and Bill are doing a nice set of interviews over on the grantland channel. Here's the latest with Len

Spoiler:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqkEo_Pk9HI[/youtube]

When did he start speaking English ? Because, wow. He talks better then Kevin S and Ves.

I think last year :o
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#834 » by keynote » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:06 am

Upper Decker wrote:What does the RealGM shirt say?

My guess is..."Guaranteed to crash during every keynote moment"


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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#835 » by hands11 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:26 am

GhostsOfGil wrote:
hands11 wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:Jalen and Bill are doing a nice set of interviews over on the grantland channel. Here's the latest with Len

Spoiler:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqkEo_Pk9HI[/youtube]

When did he start speaking English ? Because, wow. He talks better then Kevin S and Ves.

I think last year :o


Sorry but that is Fing amazing he can speak English that well so quickly.

Great interview to learn a little more about his dedication. Up early in the morning and working on his English for hours. Smart kid and dedicated.

Seems to also understand very clearly what he needs to work on. Even in his last interview he said he wanted to come in and focus on D for a few years. You can tell both of them are impressed by him and really like the young man.

Nice touch giving the first pay check to his mother. Also nice to hear he has a gf for a year in a half. This kid doesn't seem the type to be running around chasing the ladies in clubs.

I love a kid with talent but you have to also have the right mind, work ethic and personality. That interview makes me a more comfortable projecting that he will reach his upside. He isn't going to fail for lack of effort, smarts, or a flaky personality.

I said a good while ago he could end up going go #1. I think the more GMs learn about him, the more they will like. I think even GMs have a bit of group think. More positive press for Len and I could see a tipping point that could put him #1 on more boards.

Specially in this draft. Specially if Noel keeps getting questions. Hey, Len can actually play offense as well.

http://www.nbadraft.net/

Top 10 PF Prospects.
http://www.nbadraft.net/top-10-center-prospects

Top 10 Center Prospects
http://www.nbadraft.net/top-10-center-prospects
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#836 » by hands11 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:38 am

http://www.kcentv.com/story/22627738/pi ... -nba-draft

I'm calling BS. I say its more likely that he has already worked out for a team he likes and there is not reason to keep working out.

He has a promise.

He had already worked out for five teams with first-round picks -- Utah (14), Boston (16), New York (24), L.A. Clippers (25) and San Antonio (28).
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#837 » by truwizfan4evr » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:39 am

Melo score a lot of point but his shooting % is poor also he's very overrated.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#838 » by Kanyewest » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:30 am

Ruzious wrote:Cleveland's in the same bind that Warshington is in - they've told their fans they're going to the playoffs next year, so they need someone to contribute right away. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if they take Otto - he can step in pretty soon and also fills a major need.


I thought the Wizards were aiming for the 9th seed.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#839 » by Kanyewest » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:33 am

Earth2Ted wrote:Has there ever been a player in serious consideration for the #1 as unpopular with his own pre-NBA fan base as Alex Len is with Maryland fans? Were Houstonites in 1984 going around chanting Anybody but Hakeem?

My other random question is- just who is left in the Wizards front office to debate Porter vs Bennett vs the field? I thought the Connellys and Tommy Sheppard already split.


I was also thinking who are some players in the NBA who had success from a big conference who didn't make it to the NCAA tournament? Not a necessarily a knock on Len but just curious.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#840 » by gambitx777 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:56 am

I would not be shocked if the cavs took otto, But they have there smoke screen in full effect. You would think that they would not need a smoke screen with the number one pick. but it still makes sense, not knowing who the cavs are going to take could mess up a lot of trade talks. To me the cav's are trying to toss the other teams off their game.

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