Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2)

[FAH1223]

I hope you aren't too miserable next year as the team Ernie cleaned up is being competitive. I'm not saying that Ted not fire Ernie. That should have happened already. What I am saying is...get over it. It's Ted's team. I enjoyed last year, allof it. Better than any year that I can remember since I've been a Washington fan. I'm looking forward to next year, Ernie or not. Y'all can keep sulking over spilled milk,

You can't enjoy it though. You KNOW Ernie sits on his laurels. You KNOW he can't draft guys. You KNOW he gets hosed in trades more often than not.

Sure, the team is competitive in a crappy conference. Let's be happy about that.

Isn't the O'Brien Trophy the goal, though? Do you really think that we'll ever get one with Grunfeld continuing on?

Hell no!

[Dat2U]

Blaming Abe is such a cop out. The man's been dead for 4.5 years.

Grunfeld is still the one making horrible picks, bad trades, mismanaging assets.

You can't give credit for a GM making solid moves when all he is doing is just cleaning up the mess he created in the first place.

Ted Leonsis is also delusional if he thinks he can win a championship with this front office.

I hope you aren't too miserable next year as the team Ernie cleaned up is being competitive. I'm not saying that Ted not fire Ernie. That should have happened already. What I am saying is...get over it. It's Ted's team. I enjoyed last year, allof it. Better than any year that I can remember since I've been a Washington fan. I'm looking forward to next year, Ernie or not. Y'all can keep sulking over spilled milk,

I think the legitimate question is will we all be miserable in the next 24-48 months if were basically the same team or slightly worse than we were this year.

It's fine to live in moment... but not at the expense of ignoring the past and blindly assuming the future is going to be awesome. The last time the Wizards made the 2nd round of the playoffs, it took Ernie 9 years to get back there once again. I think we all hope this year is a start of great things to come, but history is no friend of Ernie or Randy and people have a right to be concerned.

[hands11]

Yeah, well last time they got to the 2nd round, Gil was their "PG" and they got swept 04/05

Gil was the "PG" played zero defense.
AJ was the "PF" played zero defense.

And they had Haywood who was an pretty good defender was center. And Hughes.

The next year they let Hughes walk which was the right move because he wanted to much.
They traded Kwame for CB which was the right move. Freaking home run move.

05/06 That team exited the first round 4-2 to CLE/LeBron after going 2-2. The last two games being OTs..The Gil 2 missed FT playoffs and the beginning of LeDouche.

06/07 Was the year EFJ started Etan over Haywood 32 games and Haywood wanted to strangle EFJ. First round sweep by CLE and LeBron. The year EFJ killed the team by the ASB, where they tanked down the stretch and Gil injured his knee late in the year. Those were the AJ playoffs when he went off for 4 games without CB or Gil. So Abe extended EFJ 3 years a year before he needed to.

07/08 The year Gil missed all but 13 games and people start talking about how the team might play better as a team without GIl. AD stepped up big and showed what they could look like with a real PG playing PG, but the team was to capped out to get another PG having expected Gil to return and that was to much for AD to pull off at his age. They just had no bad up for him. Gil returned for a few playoff games before going back out injured. That was the Songaila suspension playoffs. LeDouche strikes again.

So after missing most the year and not being able to play more then a few playoffs games..

July 7, 2008 Abe signs Gil to a mega max contract.

Nov 24, 2008 After a 1-10 with Gil and Haywood injured, EG was finally was able to hire EFJ, the head coach he never wanted that was hand pick by Abe before he was hired. But Abe wasn't done, he wanted to go all in for Gil big return after missing two years and having several knee surgeries. One last swing for a home run before his time with us was over.

The 09/10 session had Flip as the new HC. Gils return set up. Finally a professional coach to lead Gil, DS, CB, AJ and Haywood and this time with a back up 2/1 in Foye and on of the best 3 pts shooter Miller. Jun 23, 2009

Nov 25, 2009 Abe Pollin passes away.

Jan 7, 2010 Gil suspended for Guns in the locker room so he only plays 32 games. And after that went down, with Abe passed, they blow the team up. Haywood, AJ and CB all get traded. Its a tank. Its over.

Apr 28, 2010 The Age of Ted begins
May 19, 2010 The Wizards win the lottery
Jun 25, 2010 Wizards draft John Wall

And in just 4 years, they went from that, to

Wall, Beal, TA, Nene, Gortat, Miller, Webster, Otto, Gooden, AH, Booker, Kevin S, Temple

and 2 wins in the 2nd round against the #1 seed.

So if history were to repeat itself, one of TA or Gortat walks because they want to much.
And EG has a Kwame for CB level deal up his sleeve.

[Brenice]

I hope you aren't too miserable next year as the team Ernie cleaned up is being competitive. I'm not saying that Ted not fire Ernie. That should have happened already. What I am saying is...get over it. It's Ted's team. I enjoyed last year, allof it. Better than any year that I can remember since I've been a Washington fan. I'm looking forward to next year, Ernie or not. Y'all can keep sulking over spilled milk,

You can't enjoy it though. You KNOW Ernie sits on his laurels. You KNOW he can't draft guys. You KNOW he gets hosed in trades more often than not.

Sure, the team is competitive in a crappy conference. Let's be happy about that.

Isn't the O'Brien Trophy the goal, though? Do you really think that we'll ever get one with Grunfeld continuing on?

Hell no!

Playing in the playoffs hopefully expedited the maturation process of Wall and Beal. I'm hoping to see some of those games where they got off to big leads and let the opponent take the momentum and win not happening because of this maturation. Like I said, I don't think this Wiz team loses to Indy next year in the playoffs. Miami is in range too if we bring everybody back. As for competing against western conference teams, a more mature Wizards team can compete out west. Remember, they should have swept OKC last year. They split with Portland, Phoenix, got robbed in Houston. The Spurs were a problem for them and probably will be next year.

As for the draft, we have no first round pick this year so it don't matter if Ernie can draft or not. The following draft, the wizards shouldn't be in the lottery and will probably be positioned to draft between 17&20. Drafting there, you need a better eye for talent than Ernie, I give you that, but it still is a crapshoot pick. The real problem with the Wizards and Ernie drafting with high picks is that a LeBron, a Duncan, a Durant, were not available when Ernie picked. Is that Ernie's fault? You do recognize the teams they play for don't you?

As for the trades he got hosed in more often than not, which ones?

The way you make it describe it, the Wizards should have had the best chance of winning yesterday's lottery instead of beating Chicago in the first round and taking Indy to 6 games in the 2nd.

[closg00]

R.C. Buford was named 2014 Executive of the Year and the San Antonio Spurs are again in the Western Conference Finals.

The Spurs have done a masterful job of rebuilding the team on the fly even as Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker get deeper into their thirties.

“We have a specific list of deal-breakers that are non-negotiable,’’ Buford said. “If players want New York or LA, they’re not going to come here. … If someone’s more interested in winning scoring titles, this probably isn’t the place for them."

When the New York Knicks hired Phil Jackson, many in the NBA wondered why they wouldn't make that type of offer for someone like Buford.

“He believes he’s got the greatest job in the league and works with the greatest people,’’ the source said. “Why would he want to leave that?’’
Via Marc Berman/New York Post

It all starts at the top. What a Class A organization.

[fishercob]

Look what they built!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6NbJMq-QfU#t=387[/youtube]

[dckingsfan]

I hope you aren't too miserable next year as the team Ernie cleaned up is being competitive. I'm not saying that Ted not fire Ernie. That should have happened already. What I am saying is...get over it. It's Ted's team. I enjoyed last year, allof it. Better than any year that I can remember since I've been a Washington fan. I'm looking forward to next year, Ernie or not. Y'all can keep sulking over spilled milk,

You can't enjoy it though. You KNOW Ernie sits on his laurels. You KNOW he can't draft guys. You KNOW he gets hosed in trades more often than not.

Sure, the team is competitive in a crappy conference. Let's be happy about that.

Isn't the O'Brien Trophy the goal, though? Do you really think that we'll ever get one with Grunfeld continuing on?

Hell no!

Hey FAH, I really did enjoy the run. Even more so knowing it was the luck of the draw that we were in the weak east and knowing full well we aren't positioned well moving forward.

Really, in this EG era, there has been so few times to celebrate... this was one of them.

[pancakes3]

The offense really is beautiful to watch and cherrypicked or not, the highlights really show off basic offensive philosophies:

Unless you're the big 3, never take a guarded shot.
Even if you are part of the big 3, never try to score over a double-team
If you have an open jumper then that means you have an open lane. Take that lane. Always.
There's no shame in resetting a busted play. Kick it back out
Cut somewhere after you make a pass, preferably a bounce pass. Even the point guard. Especially the point guard.

[nate33]

Look what they built!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6NbJMq-QfU#t=387[/youtube]

I am so hoping that they win the title one more time. It's been a such a pleasure watching this team play throughout the years. San Antonio beating Miami will be like Good triumphing over Evil.

[FAH1223]

Playing in the playoffs hopefully expedited the maturation process of Wall and Beal. I'm hoping to see some of those games where they got off to big leads and let the opponent take the momentum and win not happening because of this maturation. Like I said, I don't think this Wiz team loses to Indy next year in the playoffs. Miami is in range too if we bring everybody back. As for competing against western conference teams, a more mature Wizards team can compete out west. Remember, they should have swept OKC last year. They split with Portland, Phoenix, got robbed in Houston. The Spurs were a problem for them and probably will be next year.

As for the draft, we have no first round pick this year so it don't matter if Ernie can draft or not. The following draft, the wizards shouldn't be in the lottery and will probably be positioned to draft between 17&20. Drafting there, you need a better eye for talent than Ernie, I give you that, but it still is a crapshoot pick. The real problem with the Wizards and Ernie drafting with high picks is that a LeBron, a Duncan, a Durant, were not available when Ernie picked. Is that Ernie's fault? You do recognize the teams they play for don't you?

As for the trades he got hosed in more often than not, which ones?

The way you make it describe it, the Wizards should have had the best chance of winning yesterday's lottery instead of beating Chicago in the first round and taking Indy to 6 games in the 2nd.

Nothing to disagree with here. Ernie sucks and we all know it

Look what they built!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6NbJMq-QfU#t=387[/youtube]

I am so hoping that they win the title one more time. It's been a such a pleasure watching this team play throughout the years. San Antonio beating Miami will be like Good triumphing over Evil.

They're the best team in basketball. Everyone knows they should have won the title last year and we all see Miami is not the same as they were last year and SAS are better this year.

[Brenice]

San Antonio had the first pick in a draft where Duncan was available. That's where it starts.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

The last time the Wizards made the 2nd round of the playoffs, it took Ernie 9 years to get back there once again.

That hurts to read.
But minus one Gerald Wallace spill into Gil's knee and things may have turned out different.
Not to give EG an excuse. I just still wonder "what if".
(Aaaaaand not to mention "Gungate.")

[montestewart]

The last time the Wizards made the 2nd round of the playoffs, it took Ernie 9 years to get back there once again.

That hurts to read.
But minus one Gerald Wallace spill into Gil's knee and things may have turned out different.
Not to give EG an excuse. I just still wonder "what if".
(Aaaaaand not to mention "Gungate.")

No knee injury, no trade for gangster backup PG, no Gungate.

[Dat2U]

San Antonio had the first pick in a draft where Duncan was available. That's where it starts.

And drafting Ginobili in the 2nd rd.

And drafting Parker with the last pick in the 1st rd.

And drafting Splitter with a late 1st.

And trading for a mid-1st to draft Kawhi Leonard

But I'm sure their success has all to do with Duncan and very little to do with how well their organization is run.

[closg00]

San Antonio had the first pick in a draft where Duncan was available. That's where it starts.

And drafting Ginobili in the 2nd rd.

And drafting Parker with the last pick in the 1st rd.

And drafting Splitter with a late 1st.

And trading for a mid-1st to draft Kawhi Leonard

But I'm sure their success has all to do with Duncan and very little to do with how well their organization is run.

[Brenice]

San Antonio had the first pick in a draft where Duncan was available. That's where it starts.

And drafting Ginobili in the 2nd rd.

And drafting Parker with the last pick in the 1st rd.

And drafting Splitter with a late 1st.

And trading for a mid-1st to draft Kawhi Leonard

But I'm sure their success has all to do with Duncan and very little to do with how well their organization is run.

I agree that San Antonio is an elite organization, with or without Duncan. They have drafted well and traded shrewdly. But without Duncan, they would not have been champions.

There is a thread on the PC Board that asks if Duncan is the all-time #1 #1 pick in terms of impact for the franchise who picked them. And Duncan looks like he is all-time #1 #1 when you consider say a Kareem, Shaq, or LeBron did not stay with the franchise that drafted them.

You get a GOAT level talent(all time top 10) and you are a championship contender. The Wizards have not had the opportunity to draft one of those players. Be it that the franchise is snake bitten or lucky, they just haven't. Their best draft pick in 45 years is John Wall. Hell, Cleveland will have 3 #1 #1 picks on its roster next season barring trade. Will any of them achieve all-time top 10 ranking? Will see. They had the #1 #1 and drafted LeBron a few years ago.

You can be lucky and you have more than 1 GOAT level position player available like Jordan, Durant, Wade, in a draft with an Olajuwon or LeBron available, but Washington hasn't been that lucky either. We may be lucky with Beal in a draft that had no true #1 #1. But that is the point...those players have to be available for you. Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi, and Splitter would peak as conference semi-finalists without Duncan.

I keep asking who Ernie should have drafted instead of Nick, JaVale, or any of the other misses that would have made a hugely dramatic difference?

[Dat2U]

San Antonio had the first pick in a draft where Duncan was available. That's where it starts.

And drafting Ginobili in the 2nd rd.

And drafting Parker with the last pick in the 1st rd.

And drafting Splitter with a late 1st.

And trading for a mid-1st to draft Kawhi Leonard

But I'm sure their success has all to do with Duncan and very little to do with how well their organization is run.

I agree that San Antonio is an elite organization, with or without Duncan. They have drafted well and traded shrewdly. But without Duncan, they would not have been champions.

There is a thread on the PC Board that asks if Duncan is the all-time #1 #1 pick in terms of impact for the franchise who picked them. And Duncan looks like he is all-time #1 #1 when you consider say a Kareem, Shaq, or LeBron did not stay with the franchise that drafted them.

You get a GOAT level talent(all time top 10) and you are a championship contender. The Wizards have not had the opportunity to draft one of those players. Be it that the franchise is snake bitten or lucky, they just haven't. Their best draft pick in 45 years is John Wall. Hell, Cleveland will have 3 #1 #1 picks on its roster next season barring trade. Will any of them achieve all-time top 10 ranking? Will see. They had the #1 #1 and drafted LeBron a few years ago. You can be lucky and you have more than 1 GOAT level position player is available like Jordan, Durant, Wade, but Washington hasn't been that lucky either. We may be lucky with Beal. But that is the point...those players have to be available for you. Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi, and Splitter would peak at conference semi-finalists without Duncan.

And having a GOAT level talent doesn't mean your winning multiple titles. No one can do it alone. Duncan wouldn't have won squat had the Spurs not nailed some of those late round picks. They drafted TWO future HOF'ers with a late 1st & late 2nd.

The Cavs got lucky when they landed LeBron in '03. But they mucked up the roster they were surrounding him with and he couldn't win it alone... So they ended up losing him for basically nothing after 7 seasons of failure.

So it's not just about luck. We have had plenty of luck the last few years. Moving up for Wall. Moving up for the 3rd pick last year. Good health this season. Having the Nets tank to avoid Chicago in the 1st round. But it's about taking advantage of the opportunities that's been given. After 5 straight years of rebuilding with top 6 lottery picks, we only have Wall & Beal as a definite core to build around along with two big free agents looking for big paydays, so maybe just maybe Ernie isn't the guy to have blind faith in.

[dckingsfan]

Actually, it isn't one miss. It is a cumulative set of misses that reduces your assets to trade for one of the aforementioned players. I could spell out a 100 scenarios where the outcome would have been better - but you could easily counter with - "prove it".

If you choose to believe that EG is on an optimal path or even a somewhat optimal/mediocre path - that is fine. But the preponderance of evidence does not look favorably on his past helmsmenship of the good ship Wizards regardless of the obfuscation of the facts.

[queridiculo]

The reason why Spurs are being effusively praised around here apparently went right over your head Brenice.

There were plenty of posters that wanted Belinelli, Fernandez, Splitter, Millsap, to name a few, but that's not exactly the point that one should focus on when comparing Grunfeld's tenure with how the Spurs operate.

The Nick Young's, Blatche's and McGee's in this league never would have made it onto the Spurs roster to begin with. Grunfeld didn't just draft those guys, he blew powdered sugar up their asses and made those spoiled brats the centerpiece of his rebuild.

Completely ignoring the blown lottery pick when he selected Vesely, or the lottery pick he flushed down the toilet in the Miller/Foye trade, Blatche's contract extension alone demonstrates how awful Grunfeld's decision making has been as Washington's GM.

Ernie IS NOT the victim of circumstances, he's 100% responsible for them, and to those posters having the nerve to invoke the Abe Pollin defense, shame on you.

[closg00]

San Antonio had the first pick in a draft where Duncan was available. That's where it starts.

And drafting Ginobili in the 2nd rd.

And drafting Parker with the last pick in the 1st rd.

And drafting Splitter with a late 1st.

And trading for a mid-1st to draft Kawhi Leonard

But I'm sure their success has all to do with Duncan and very little to do with how well their organization is run.

I agree that San Antonio is an elite organization, with or without Duncan. They have drafted well and traded shrewdly. But without Duncan, they would not have been champions.

There is a thread on the PC Board that asks if Duncan is the all-time #1 #1 pick in terms of impact for the franchise who picked them. And Duncan looks like he is all-time #1 #1 when you consider say a Kareem, Shaq, or LeBron did not stay with the franchise that drafted them.

You get a GOAT level talent(all time top 10) and you are a championship contender. The Wizards have not had the opportunity to draft one of those players. Be it that the franchise is snake bitten or lucky, they just haven't. Their best draft pick in 45 years is John Wall. Hell, Cleveland will have 3 #1 #1 picks on its roster next season barring trade. Will any of them achieve all-time top 10 ranking? Will see. They had the #1 #1 and drafted LeBron a few years ago.

You can be lucky and you have more than 1 GOAT level position player available like Jordan, Durant, Wade, in a draft with an Olajuwon or LeBron available, but Washington hasn't been that lucky either. We may be lucky with Beal in a draft that had no true #1 #1. But that is the point...those players have to be available for you. Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi, and Splitter would peak as conference semi-finalists without Duncan.

I keep asking who Ernie should have drafted instead of Nick, JaVale, or any of the other misses that would have made a hugely dramatic difference?

How-many botched drafts should Ernie be allowed and still keep his job? We had Leonard in for pre-draft workouts and the Spurs are very grateful that Ernie Grunfeld lusted afterJan Vesely for several years.