2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[Mizerooskie]

Can I officially request that posters stop making Jalen Suggs the board favorite for the Wizards' pick?

If that happens, you know what happens next.

[NatP4]

Wagner just decided to close out LSU. Was having a so so game, shooting 1-5 until about the 4 minute mark, then scored on about 4 consecutive possessions to remove all doubt. That’s a really good LSU team and a terrific back and forth game.

[NatP4]

This is just my opinion, I know others disagree, but Wagner is the 3rd best player in this draft after Suggs&Mobley.

[DCZards]

I have no clue what the statline shows, but Jalen Suggs is on a completely different level than Cade Cunningham.

Suggs has prime Derrick Rose level explosiveness. If he was on a team that just cleared it out and let him take 20 shots a game, he would put up ridiculous numbers and easily lock up the top pick. He can blow by his man whenever he wants.

Yeah, I would very easily pick Suggs ahead of Cunningham. One is a true alpha and the other one is not.

Suggs definitely seems to be much more of an alpha than Cunningham. But I still have Cunningham at #1 (with the possible exception of taking Mobley based on need).

I just think Cade has a higher ceiling than Suggs....and at his size and length Cunningham will be able to play multiple positions on offense and defend multiple positions on D. I like that.

[nate33]

This is just my opinion, I know others disagree, but Wagner is the 3rd best player in this draft after Suggs&Mobley.

I just don't see it.

I think he's a fine player. A very smart player. But he's more of a glue guy, not a primary option and not an elite on-ball shut down defender. At best, he peaks out as the 3rd best player on a good team. He's basically Otto Porter with a less reliable 3-ball. Teams can certainly use guys like that, but they're typically not the 3rd best player in a draft, particularly a strong draft like this one.

I do think you are right in singling him out as being underrated. But I think he's more like the 6th or 7th best guy in this draft, not the 3rd.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You know you do have a point. Jalen who?

Can I officially request that posters stop making Jalen Suggs the board favorite for the Wizards' pick?

If that happens, you know what happens next.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Semantics. I agree the big man in the middle can change a game but all I need to refute your premise is to mention Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace.

Which if either was a true center?

NATE; paradigm shift moment...Why is it that a guy who plays extremely good defense is never considered a star but the guy who chucks up a lot of shots And scores a ton of points is considered a star?

Dennis Rodman? He was a star in my book.

Davion Mitchell becomes a star on a winning team.

With the exception of centers, being great defensively is only a marginal help because the other team will simply instigate a switch so that the great defender ends up guarding an inconsequential player.

But on offense, you get to dictate what you do, so having one really good offensive player can turn a mediocre offensive team into a really good one. All it takes is one good offensive player to bend a defense, get them into rotation, and ultimately get someone a wide open shot.

The only position where being a great defender can instantly boost your entire team's defense is at center. One Rudy Gobert or Bam Adebayo can make a team of bad defenders play good defense. But really good perimeter defenders like Robert Covington or Jaylen Brown can't really change the fortunes of the team's defense that much.

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[jangles86]

Cunningham doesn’t make sense for this roster.

Suggs is who we would draft if we weren’t locked into Westbrook.

Mobley makes sense. Stretch 4, can play along side Hachimura and defensively a presence. He should be the main target for the wiz.

Green could be a really nice piece. Doesn’t look to have a high quality handle as of yet but his transition game is going to be very special. Would love to see him along Westbrook and Beal next season.

So personally for the wizards my order would be

1 Mobley
2 Green
3 Suggs
4 Cunningham

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If it came down to Herb Jones or Franz Wagner I think I'm going Jones.

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[NatP4]

This is just my opinion, I know others disagree, but Wagner is the 3rd best player in this draft after Suggs&Mobley.

I just don't see it.

I think he's a fine player. A very smart player. But he's more of a glue guy, not a primary option and not an elite on-ball shut down defender. At best, he peaks out as the 3rd best player on a good team. He's basically Otto Porter with a less reliable 3-ball. Teams can certainly use guys like that, but they're typically not the 3rd best player in a draft, particularly a strong draft like this one.

I do think you are right in singling him out as being underrated. But I think he's more like the 6th or 7th best guy in this draft, not the 3rd.

Probably the 2nd best defensive player in the country behind Mobley, shooting the 3 at 38% on a solid amount of attempts. Excellent free throw shooter. Much better playmaker and driver, more explosive and stronger athlete, better frame than Otto Porter (who was an excellent player when healthy). Would you rather have a healthy prime Otto Porter, or a present day Jayson Tatum?

Regardless, you should name the 6-7 players that will be better NBA players than Wagner. Suggs&Mobley will be good, Green&Cunningham are solid bets to be volume scorers. Who else? Who are the 5th and 6th guys? And why?

[nate33]

Semantics. I agree the big man in the middle can change a game but all I need to refute your premise is to mention Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace.

Which if either was a true center?

Ben Wallace was the center.

Name a good defense below-average offense guard that you would consider a star.

[NatP4]

There was a stretch of that game in which Oklahoma was hanging around and kept cutting the lead to 6ish, then Suggs decided to just take the ball straight to the basket and finish or draw contact on every single play. Total alpha, leader, smart competitive player. Would not allow Gonzaga to lose. Here was one of those plays:

Read on Twitter

[NatP4]

Read on Twitter

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Semantics. I agree the big man in the middle can change a game but all I need to refute your premise is to mention Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace.

Which if either was a true center?

Ben Wallace was the center.

Name a good defense below-average offense guard that you would consider a star.

Thinking back, Michael Cooper.

I believe Matisse Thybuile (sp?) could be one with talented offensive players surrounding him.

Dennis Johnson of the Celtics I think played for Seattle first IIRC when he wasn’t counted for offense.

Darryl Walker. Really great player.

Dudley Bradley was a phenomenal player.

Nate, DeShawn Stevenson and Larry Hughes each had SOMETHING on the defensive end. Hughes was well on his way to an All Star game alongside Arenas. Larry wasn’t below average offensively but like GARRETT TEMPLE or Trent Hassell nobody would say offense is his strength.

What I think is an Eric Snow IS A STAR NEXT TO AN ALLEN IVERSON.

Just think the defense is not being compensated the same way. In basketball it is a little bit different than football. A defensive lineman can make a hell of a lot of money. I think I left tackle like Trent Williams is going to earn more but I am not even sure about that. What I really know is that the unsung heroes in the NBA are guys like Paul Millsap.

I knows I tried to tell the wizards about him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Paul Milsap is not a great defender but offense is not the reason why he’s in the game. He was more valuable ultimately to Utah than Carlos Boozer who scored a lot of points.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I would draft people that play defense and help your team win since we already have enough offense of players on the Washington wizards. Everyone of those typos is a talk to text error that I will correct later. Thank you

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There was a stretch of that game in which Oklahoma was hanging around and kept cutting the lead to 6ish, then Suggs decided to just take the ball straight to the basket and finish or draw contact on every single play. Total alpha, leader, smart competitive player. Would not allow Gonzaga to lose. Here was one of those plays:

Read on Twitter

He is better than Bradley Beal right now. He has something that Bradley Beal will never have. In my opinion Bradley Beal is better than 90% of the other guards out there. He’s probably better than 95% of the other guards out there. He’s the top scorer in the league for a reason.

Jalen Suggs have something God gave him. Wall had athletic gifts even better than anything Bradley Beal has but he cannot improve his game the way Bradley has improved his own game. Bradley has a grinder approach and the stability that comes from his family and whatever else makes him tick. He is special. He’s a brilliant dude. I love the fact that he plays for the Wizards.

Jalen Suggs just happens to be better. When Charles Barkley was drafted the Philadelphia 76ers Julius Erving we’re still on the team.

If I were drafting for the Washington wizards I would have a hell of a time not drafting Suggs instead of Mobley. I realize Kayde Cunningham might be the best player. I realize Jalen green might be the best score. I hate the fact that my iPhone is misspelling every single thing I say but I cannot type right now because my eyes are really hurting. I just think Jaylin Suggs is better than Bradley Beal and I know you spell his name JALEN.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There was a stretch of that game in which Oklahoma was hanging around and kept cutting the lead to 6ish, then Suggs decided to just take the ball straight to the basket and finish or draw contact on every single play. Total alpha, leader, smart competitive player. Would not allow Gonzaga to lose. Here was one of those plays:

Read on Twitter

He is better than Bradley Beal right now. He has something that Bradley Beal will never have. In my opinion Bradley Beal is better than 90% of the other guards out there. He’s probably better than 95% of the other guards out there. He’s the top scorer in the league for a reason.

Jalen Suggs have something God gave him. Wall had athletic gifts even better than anything Bradley Beal has but he cannot improve his game the way Bradley has improved his own game. Bradley has a grinder approach and the stability that comes from his family and whatever else makes him tick. He is special. He’s a brilliant dude. I love the fact that he plays for the Wizards.

Jalen Suggs just happens to be better. When Charles Barkley was drafted the Philadelphia 76ers Julius Erving we’re still on the team.

If I were drafting for the Washington wizards I would have a hell of a time not drafting Suggs instead of Mobley. I realize Kayde Cunningham might be the best player. I realize Jalen green might be the best score. I hate the fact that my iPhone is misspelling every single thing I say but I cannot type right now because my eyes are really hurting. I just think Jaylin Suggs is better than Bradley Beal and I know you spell his name JALEN.

[Dat2U]

Semantics. I agree the big man in the middle can change a game but all I need to refute your premise is to mention Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace.

Which if either was a true center?

Ben Wallace was the center.

Name a good defense below-average offense guard that you would consider a star.

Thinking back, Michael Cooper.

I believe Matisse Thybuile (sp?) could be one with talented offensive players surrounding him.

Dennis Johnson of the Celtics I think played for Seattle first IIRC when he wasn’t counted for offense.

Darryl Walker. Really great player.

Dudley Bradley was a phenomenal player.

Nate, DeShawn Stevenson and Larry Hughes each had SOMETHING on the defensive end. Hughes was well on his way to an All Star game alongside Arenas. Larry wasn’t below average offensively but like GARRETT TEMPLE or Trent Hassell nobody would say offense is his strength.

What I think is an Eric Snow IS A STAR NEXT TO AN ALLEN IVERSON.

Just think the defense is not being compensated the same way. In basketball it is a little bit different than football. A defensive lineman can make a hell of a lot of money. I think I left tackle like Trent Williams is going to earn more but I am not even sure about that. What I really know is that the unsung heroes in the NBA are guys like Paul Millsap.

I knows I tried to tell the wizards about him.

Eric Snow was terrible. Only reason he worked in that lineup is because was willing to do everything else but in any other situation he would have been unplayable.

Thybulle... unplayable unless he makes open shots.

DeShawn... brutal offensive player, his reputation as a defender kept him lineups when he shouldn't have played.

Darryl Walker... brutal offensive player. Great rebounder and defender tho and thats what kept him in the league.

[Dat2U]

:wink:

There was a stretch of that game in which Oklahoma was hanging around and kept cutting the lead to 6ish, then Suggs decided to just take the ball straight to the basket and finish or draw contact on every single play. Total alpha, leader, smart competitive player. Would not allow Gonzaga to lose. Here was one of those plays:

Read on Twitter

He is better than Bradley Beal right now. He has something that Bradley Beal will never have. In my opinion Bradley Beal is better than 90% of the other guards out there. He’s probably better than 95% of the other guards out there. He’s the top scorer in the league for a reason.

Stop it. Just stop it. No he isn't. Suggs is a great prospect and #2 on my board at the moment but he's a long way from approaching the stratosphere that Beal is in. Imagine Beal in the West Coast Conference against the likes of Pepperdine, Pacific & St. Mary's... guess how he'd do?