Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[Tyrone Messby]

This team hasn’t had any semblance of direction since they traded Webber to Sac for Mitch, let’s be honest. They made all the wrong moves to surround Beal and Wall. Handing out those asinine contracts to Ian and that bum from Orlando when they predictably struck out on Durant was so pathetic yet predictable. I trust this new establishment to come in and give us a real vision going forward which leads to ECF and maybe Finals visits within the next 5-10 years. They’re using the word championship and contender which are words I haven’t heard come out of this franchise since I’ve been a fan.

[9 and 20]

This team hasn’t had any semblance of direction since they traded Webber to Sac for Mitch, let’s be honest. They made all the wrong moves to surround Beal and Wall. Handing out those asinine contracts to Ian and that bum from Orlando when they predictably struck out on Durant was so pathetic yet predictable. I trust this new establishment to come in and give us a real vision going forward which leads to ECF and maybe Finals visits within the next 5-10 years. They’re using the word championship and contender which are words I haven’t heard come out of this franchise since I’ve been a fan.

Which bum from Orlando we talking about here? After Durant, we got Grundled into signing the second and third string centers from Orlando. Mahinmi, Smith, Nicholson were the three headed monster going to take us to the promised land, apparently.

[AFM]

In what world does a rebuild mean we're at 22 wins for the next 7 years?

[The Consiglieri]

Well, seems like we are tearing it down. As much as some posters here might celebrate, the reality is that tearing down a team is the easy part. Building a legitimate contender...now that's the harder part. I have my doubts as to whether or not Ted will have the patience to do this rebuild right but only time will tell.

I’ve been screaming for 4.5 years for them to trade Beal post Wall shower fall and I find it SO Wizards that after all this time, they finally come to same conclusion after 4 blown drafts where they could have been players and just in time for his value to, SHOCK, have hit rock bottom. It’s like they aspire to be clowns but they’re too pathetic to even get that act down. Good luck to the new guys, they will need it w/this totally incompetent, witless owner.

[The Consiglieri]

Well, seems like we are tearing it down. As much as some posters here might celebrate, the reality is that tearing down a team is the easy part. Building a legitimate contender...now that's the harder part. I have my doubts as to whether or not Ted will have the patience to do this rebuild right but only time will tell.

I'd honestly rather watch a 22-win team with young players who give me hope, than watch a 35-win team that has no hope whatsoever.

Not to mention the latter plan has been the plan for the vast bulk of the past 40 years. Literally the only two moments of hope since the early eighties has been the CWebb rebuild and the ‘10–‘14 drafts from rock bottom to playoff contenders. The other approach has yielded ———— all since the days of eight is enough and freaking Benson.

[payitforward]

I want to see a legitimate championship contender in DC at least once before I die. I've experienced the 22 win with young players who give hope before. I remember John Wall doing the dougie when he was introduced. I'm good.

So are you suggesting there is a better path to "championship contender" that doesn't involve tearing it down? What are you even complaining about here?

You're the one who responded to me. I stated my opinion. Not everything is a complaint lol. Sometimes it's just a conversation. Vast majority of rebuilds don't turn into championship contenders. I hope that Ted will see the rebuild through instead of getting impatient and making decisions that will limit the ability of this team to turn into a contender.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rebuilding does not mean creating a contender. If you look at the history of the Wizards, rebuilding is actually a part of perpetuating mediocrity.

You are certainly correct that "the majority of rebuilds don't turn into championship contenders." & I understand -- I share!! -- your frustration.

Thing is, however, the majority of teams taking any strategy any of us can describe also don't turn into championship contenders.

Personally, I can see no path whatever, other than a complete rebuild, that gives this team any chance at all to reach your goal. OTOH, if you've got another idea, it'd be great to hear about it.

Obviously, we're going to have to do something! & do it well.

[prime1time]

So are you suggesting there is a better path to "championship contender" that doesn't involve tearing it down? What are you even complaining about here?

You're the one who responded to me. I stated my opinion. Not everything is a complaint lol. Sometimes it's just a conversation. Vast majority of rebuilds don't turn into championship contenders. I hope that Ted will see the rebuild through instead of getting impatient and making decisions that will limit the ability of this team to turn into a contender.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rebuilding does not mean creating a contender. If you look at the history of the Wizards, rebuilding is actually a part of perpetuating mediocrity.

You are certainly correct that "the majority of rebuilds don't turn into championship contenders." & I understand -- I share!! -- your frustration.

Thing is, however, the majority of teams taking any strategy any of us can describe also don't turn into championship contenders.

Personally, I can see no path whatever, other than a complete rebuild, that gives this team any chance at all to reach your goal. OTOH, if you've got another idea, it'd be great to hear about it.

Obviously, we're going to have to do something! & do it well.

Question

Now that we are rebuilding, I am more open to your trade-down approach and amassing multiple picks. Any trades that you like right now? If we can't move up, then I'd prefer to move back.

[mhd]

My Beal trade:

Wiz trade Beal for Lowry (expiring)+Jovic+Duncan Robinson (movable as his contract dwindles)+#17 (Miami)+2028 unprotected Miami 1st (price to take on Robinson as they keep Herro on the team for a future trade).

[payitforward]

I’m not against tearing it down and rebuilding, but this notion that tearing it down is some sort of silver bullet—or the only way to compete for a championship—is wrongheaded, imo.

In the end, there's only one way to compete for a title, & that is to have enough outstanding players that, by & large, you put better players on the court than your opponents. Sure, you need other things as well (great coaching, etc.), but without a roster chock full of really good players, you just can't compete.

Tearing it down doesn't get you those players. So, I don't think tearing it down itself is any part of "competing for a championship." It's just something you do when you have to -- when you recognizing failure & come to grips with the fact that you're at some kind of dead end. Or at least that the path you're on isn't capable of leading to contention.

That said, you can do anything well or badly. You can make a bad decision, for example, & tear it down when you don't need to. Or, even if you do need to, you can still make bad decisions along the way. For example, I'd like to see Winger/Dawkins tear down the current Wizards, but I don't want them to discard Jordan Goodwin!

All the same, if you tear it down, you have to rebuild. Which, you are so right, is difficult. & is always uncertain. In one sense or another, I suppose it comes down to two factors: 1. have an outstanding FO that a) drafts well, b) makes intelligent trades, & c) finds & signs good free agents; & 2. have some luck -- I think you need at least a bit of good fortune to get there.

So, for sure, I agree with you, Zards: tearing it down is so far from being a silver bullet that you only do it when you have no other choice. & I'd say that's where we are.

I'd say it seems obvious that we need to rebuild. & we can't rebuild unless we tear down the current version of the Washington Wizards.

[gambitx777]

I’m not against tearing it down and rebuilding, but this notion that tearing it down is some sort of silver bullet—or the only way to compete for a championship—is wrongheaded, imo.

In the end, there's only one way to compete for a title, & that is to have enough outstanding players that, by & large, you put better players on the court than your opponents. Sure, you need other things as well (great coaching, etc.), but without a roster chock full of really good players, you just can't compete.

Tearing it down doesn't get you those players. So, I don't think tearing it down itself is any part of "competing for a championship." It's just something you do when you have to -- when you recognizing failure & come to grips with the fact that you're at some kind of dead end. Or at least that the path you're on isn't capable of leading to contention.

That said, you can do anything well or badly. You can make a bad decision, for example, & tear it down when you don't need to. Or, even if you do need to, you can still make bad decisions along the way. For example, I'd like to see Winger/Dawkins tear down the current Wizards, but I don't want them to discard Jordan Goodwin!

All the same, if you tear it down, you have to rebuild. Which, you are so right, is difficult. & is always uncertain. In one sense or another, I suppose it comes down to two factors: 1. have an outstanding FO that a) drafts well, b) makes intelligent trades, & c) finds & signs good free agents; & 2. have some luck -- I think you need at least a bit of good fortune to get there.

So, for sure, I agree with you, Zards: tearing it down is so far from being a silver bullet that you only do it when you have no other choice. & I'd say that's where we are.

I'd say it seems obvious that we need to rebuild. & we can't rebuild unless we tear down the current version of the Washington Wizards.

I think piff put it the best. This team was miss managed in to a hole that it would have been too hard to manage us out of why start off with failure when you can turn things around and start new.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Menace2Sobriety]

Holy ****. Here we go! I leave the country for a couple weeks and return to an entirely new executive team! Excellent. I know nothing about them but optimistic they’re from the Presti tree. At minimum, I’m glad it’s a new regime leading the rebuild. Get the stink out of here.

From a rebuild perspective, I would keep at most 4 players from last season’s roster:
- KP
- Deni
- Gafford
- Possibly Kispert

However, I believe my Pistons would make for a good trade partner, specifically for KP if he’s not in the Wizards future. There are a couple players on the Pistons who I believe will still have very successful NBA careers, despite rough starts. Perhaps something based around:

Detroit Trades: Jonathan Wiseman + Killian Hayes +

Wizards Trade: KP +

I understand folks will want additional incentive either way, but I believe this benefits both my teams. The Pistons also have sufficient cap to offer Washington a potentially large TPE, if that’s preferred.

Wanna be top 5 bad? How about a starting backcourt of Hayes and Davis?

Truthfully though, I believe Wiseman and Hayes will eventually be starting caliber players in the NBA. Wiseman perhaps even more. They just need the time and space to play through mistakes.

[NatP4]

How about Kuzma for Cunningham, Ivey, Duren, and 5th overall?

[Menace2Sobriety]

Sure.

[TGW]

Sure, if you add the 5th pick, I'd consider it.

[9 and 20]

Holy ****. Here we go! I leave the country for a couple weeks and return to an entirely new executive team! Excellent. I know nothing about them but optimistic they’re from the Presti tree. At minimum, I’m glad it’s a new regime leading the rebuild. Get the stink out of here.

From a rebuild perspective, I would keep at most 4 players from last season’s roster:
- KP
- Deni
- Gafford
- Possibly Kispert

However, I believe my Pistons would make for a good trade partner, specifically for KP if he’s not in the Wizards future. There are a couple players on the Pistons who I believe will still have very successful NBA careers, despite rough starts. Perhaps something based around:

Detroit Trades: Jonathan Wiseman + Killian Hayes +

Wizards Trade: KP +

I understand folks will want additional incentive either way, but I believe this benefits both my teams. The Pistons also have sufficient cap to offer Washington a potentially large TPE, if that’s preferred.

Wanna be top 5 bad? How about a starting backcourt of Hayes and Davis?

Truthfully though, I believe Wiseman and Hayes will eventually be starting caliber players in the NBA. Wiseman perhaps even more. They just need the time and space to play through mistakes.

Worst trade fake trade I've ever seen, thanks. Also Porzingis is from Latvia. No way this dude is going to pure Michigan, land of Bud Light and urban decay.

[nate33]

Alright, I've come up with a pretty good Beal trade. I'm going to break it into components because each component is optional:

Part 1:
Beal to Miami for Herro, Robinson, #18, Jovic, 2028 swap and MIA 2029 1st (unprotected or perhaps top 4 protected)

Miami gives up those future 1sts because, not only are they acquiring Beal, but they are dumping Robinson and actually saving a little money in the transaction, which allows them to keep one or perhaps both of Vincent/Struss.

Part 2:
We flip Herro plus our #8 to Orlando for their #6. Orlando could really use Herro and have enough defense around him to make it work. I'm happy to offload his salary so I can use it in other ways. This gets us a $28M TPE

Part 3:
Trade Robinson plus most of that TPE to Brooklyn for Simmons, and Finney-Smith. Brooklyn would be happy to unload Simmons.

Part 4:
Finney-Smith + Gafford + Wright to Dallas for their #10 + Hardaway Jr. + Bertans. This gets Dallas two key defensive role players on good contracts - exactly what they need to place around Luka and Kyrie.

The sum total of this trade is:
Beal + #8 + Gafford + Wright

for

#6, #10, #18, MIA 2028 swap, MIA 2029 1st, Simmons, Hardaway Jr, Bertans (who we cut)

The returning players on our roster are: Morris, Kispert, Deni, Porzingis, Goodwin, Davis

[Dark Faze]

Alright, I've come up with a pretty good Beal trade. I'm going to break it into components because each component is optional:

Beal + #8 + Gafford + Wright

for

#6, #10, #18, MIA 2028 swap, MIA 2029 1st, Simmons, Hardaway Jr, Bertans (who we cut)

The returning players are our roster are: Morris, Kispert, Deni, Porzingis, Goodwin, Davis

yas pls

[NatP4]

I don’t see Dallas making that trade. Wright has always been a criminally undervalued player, was available for MLE money, don’t think his value is much more than a 2nd rounder. Gafford’s new deal is kicking in, make him almost just a neutral value. Finney-Smith is not the player he used to be.

I don’t see all of that being worth #10, even if you take back Bertans&Hardaway.

The rest of it is great though, I would absolutely do the Miami and Orlando deals to have #6+#18.

[payitforward]

Alright, I've come up with a pretty good Beal trade. I'm going to break it into components because each component is optional:

Part 1:
Beal to Miami for Herro, Robinson, #18, Jovic, 2028 swap and MIA 2029 1st (unprotected or perhaps top 4 protected)

Miami gives up those future 1sts because, not only are they acquiring Beal, but they are dumping Robinson and actually saving a little money in the transaction, which allows them to keep one or perhaps both of Vincent/Struss.

Part 2:
We flip Herro plus our #8 to Orlando for their #6. Orlando could really use Herro and have enough defense around him to make it work. I'm happy to offload his salary so I can use it in other ways. This gets us a $28M TPE

Part 3:
Trade Robinson plus most of that TPE to Brooklyn for Simmons, and Finney-Smith. Brooklyn would be happy to unload Simmons.

Part 4:
Finney-Smith + Gafford + Wright to Dallas for their #10 + Hardaway Jr. + Bertans. This gets Dallas two key defensive role players on good contracts - exactly what they need to place around Luka and Kyrie.

The sum total of this trade is:
Beal + #8 + Gafford + Wright

for

#6, #10, #18, MIA 2028 swap, MIA 2029 1st, Simmons, Hardaway Jr, Bertans (who we cut)

The returning players on our roster are: Morris, Kispert, Deni, Porzingis, Goodwin, Davis

Unless I missed something, Jovic also comes to us in this series of deals.

Dallas just traded Finney-Smith to Brooklyn at the deadline -- of course that doesn't mean they wouldn't be interested in having him back.

He shot the ball like crap for the Nets in 700 minutes. But overall I don't see a lot of reason to think that he's declined.

[Rafael122]

What is the incentive for Kuzma on a sign and trade? If the teams with cap space don't sign him outright, what's in it for him to work with the Wizards on a sign and trade?