NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Illmatic21]

The Knicks are getting blasted. Yet again.

Melo looks both frustrated and embarrassed. I feel bad for him.

Look, I am not a fan of Melo's game. I honestly wouldn't want him on the Wizards. But I respect Melo's effort, his commitment. Not in a chucking sense. He's willing to get the blue collar boards. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty. He gives real effort every night.

That's more than you can say about the rest of that motley crew.

Melo needs to ditch the Knicks. They have no future in the next 5 years. That is one dysfunctional organization.

I can't imagine him staying, this has been a season from hell and they have no chance of getting better.

Gotta disagree on one point though, I would welcome him to the Wizards with open arms. People bash Melo's game and say he's not a winner, etc. But the guy has never missed the playoffs before this year, and he's carried multiple 50-win teams. That 2009 Nuggets team went to the WCF and gave the Lakers a run for their money. Had that squad been in the Eastern Conference, Melo would have a couple Finals appearances on his resume.. we'd all be singing a different tune.

[Nivek]

The Knicks are getting blasted. Yet again.

Melo looks both frustrated and embarrassed. I feel bad for him.

Look, I am not a fan of Melo's game. I honestly wouldn't want him on the Wizards. But I respect Melo's effort, his commitment. Not in a chucking sense. He's willing to get the blue collar boards. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty. He gives real effort every night.

That's more than you can say about the rest of that motley crew.

Melo needs to ditch the Knicks. They have no future in the next 5 years. That is one dysfunctional organization.

I can't imagine him staying, this has been a season from hell and they have no chance of getting better.

Gotta disagree on one point though, I would welcome him to the Wizards with open arms. People bash Melo's game and say he's not a winner, etc. But the guy has never missed the playoffs before this year, and he's carried multiple 50-win teams. That 2009 Nuggets team went to the WCF and gave the Lakers a run for their money. Had that squad been in the Eastern Conference, Melo would have a couple Finals appearances on his resume.. we'd all be singing a different tune.

Nah. A trip or two to the Finals wouldn't change my analysis of Carmelo's game. He's a good player, and he's had a good career. But he's not the capital S Superstar he's made out to be. Like many guys with a high scoring average, he's been significantly overrated throughout his career.

[Illmatic21]

The Knicks are getting blasted. Yet again.

Melo looks both frustrated and embarrassed. I feel bad for him.

Look, I am not a fan of Melo's game. I honestly wouldn't want him on the Wizards. But I respect Melo's effort, his commitment. Not in a chucking sense. He's willing to get the blue collar boards. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty. He gives real effort every night.

That's more than you can say about the rest of that motley crew.

Melo needs to ditch the Knicks. They have no future in the next 5 years. That is one dysfunctional organization.

I can't imagine him staying, this has been a season from hell and they have no chance of getting better.

Gotta disagree on one point though, I would welcome him to the Wizards with open arms. People bash Melo's game and say he's not a winner, etc. But the guy has never missed the playoffs before this year, and he's carried multiple 50-win teams. That 2009 Nuggets team went to the WCF and gave the Lakers a run for their money. Had that squad been in the Eastern Conference, Melo would have a couple Finals appearances on his resume.. we'd all be singing a different tune.

Nah. A trip or two to the Finals wouldn't change my analysis of Carmelo's game. He's a good player, and he's had a good career. But he's not the capital S Superstar he's made out to be. Like many guys with a high scoring average, he's been significantly overrated throughout his career.

Paul Pierce was never a "capital S Superstar" either. A guy not being a superstar doesn't mean you can't win with him.

I'm not saying Melo is a Lebron/Durant level player, I'm saying that the narrative of him not being a 'winner' is misguided. Kevin Love is starting to get the same treatment, which to me, is ridiculous.

[queridiculo]

The Bulls are really looking like they're catching their stride at just the right time.

Mavs were doing a job on Chicago early on in the game and the Bulls came back, throttled them on defense and executed superbly on offense.

Really nice team to watch. Not a hint of ego ball, all out defense and everybody out there fighting for each other.

You gotta tip your hat to Thibodeau for keeping that team together and a ton of respect for the players on that squad for not making any excuses for themselves and battling it out every night.

As much as I hated Captain Kirk during the Wizards/Bulls rivalry, he's a player I enjoy watching out there.

Him and Noah have such a great sense for the game.

Kudos, let's see if they can sustain that effort.

[Nivek]

Paul Pierce was never a "capital S Superstar" either. A guy not being a superstar doesn't mean you can't win with him.

I'm not saying Melo is a Lebron/Durant level player, I'm saying that the narrative of him not being a 'winner' is misguided. Kevin Love is starting to get the same treatment, which to me, is ridiculous.

Good points, and Pierce is an excellent example. For me, I've largely stopped paying attention to the Official Narrative about players and teams. The storylines are manufactured -- whose team is it? who's the Alpha player? whose ego is bruised by some egregious insult entirely created by the media? -- and just plain wrong. I swear, it seems like sports reporting in general, and NBA reporting in particular, has devolved into The Real Housewives of Fill In Team Name.

[Nivek]

So, I click over to Washington Post to see if there's anything worth reading, and (as if on cue) Jason Reid has one of those "narrative" pieces up anointing Wall as a True Star. Not JUST because of an improved jumper or improved decision-making, but because as the once great PG (and REALLY first-rate GM) Isiah Thomas told him, "...it’s not about how many points you score or how many assists you have. It really is about you as a leader, you as a man."

Blech.

[pancakes3]

I actually don't think 'Melo would be too bad on this team. He'd be the ideal stretch 4. Melo is not the ISO player that Durant and Lebron are. He's very good but I think he's at his best when he doesn't get the ball at the top of the key. He needs to post up, spot up, and generally play off-ball. It's no surprise that he had his most efficient season playing next to Iverson: another player that was at his best when he wasn't the ISO star.

The real problem for 'Melo is if he's on any team that still puts him on the pedestal and thinks the offensive philosophy is to build around him. The track history shows that with a guy like 'melo, you need a strong point guard to make him efficient.

[pineappleheadindc]

I want to just clarify a bit on my Melo post.

I respect his effort, his grit, he obviously has skills on the court. I just don't like the *style*. The ball sticks a bit wherever he plays. Little too much iso for my tastes. That's all.

Other than that, I feel really bad for him stuck on the NY squad. He really needs to opt out over the summer. He's a good enough player where he doesn't have to go the obvious ring chasing route. Just needs someplace with more promise.

[LyricalRico]

I actually don't think 'Melo would be too bad on this team. He'd be the ideal stretch 4. Melo is not the ISO player that Durant and Lebron are. He's very good but I think he's at his best when he doesn't get the ball at the top of the key. He needs to post up, spot up, and generally play off-ball. It's no surprise that he had his most efficient season playing next to Iverson: another player that was at his best when he wasn't the ISO star.

The real problem for 'Melo is if he's on any team that still puts him on the pedestal and thinks the offensive philosophy is to build around him. The track history shows that with a guy like 'melo, you need a strong point guard to make him efficient.

I agree with this post, and with the Paul Pierce comparison above. I really liked Melo in Denver and was super excited when Iverson ended up there. If Melo were to come to DC with a respect for John Wall and his game, I think a competent coach (George Karl, anyone) could get the offense to work - John runs the break and if it's not there, run the half-court through Melo.

They wouldn't be a perfect team, but how many teams are? We'd be an elite defensive C away from being a darn good team that's followed nationally. Make a run over the next 3-4 years, and then shake things up. Considering the other options, I'm not seeing this as a bad plan at all.

[Kanyewest]

I'm not sure getting Melo makes sense. He's decent offensively but sub-par defensively. Even offensively, he takes a lot of bad shots. Seeing him on the fast break last night remind me of Larry Hughes because he gets tunnel vision. His court vision could have been a lot better IMO considering he was a pretty good passer in college.

Dropping onto this team would be nice but in all likelihood, the Knicks won't do a sign and trade which means that the Wizards would have to give up the ability to resign any of their free agents.

Melo's has had decent PGs over the years (Miller, Allen Iverson, Billups) and some decent defensive bigs (Camby, Nene, Kenyon Martin, Anderson).

Watching Melo as a stretch 4 would be fun to watch- with Wall having the ability to kick out to potentially 4 guys. Not sure if this is a championship formula against elite defensive teams or teams with enough size. It certainly isn't working out for the Knicks.

[hands11]

What the hell happened to Denver ? Lost 9 of 10.

Darrell Arthur, PF DNP LEFT HIP INJURY
Wilson Chandler, SF DNP RIGHT KNEE INJURY
Nate Robinson, PG DNP LEFT ACL
Ty Lawson, PG DNP LEFT RIB FRACTURE


Decimated by injuries. They weren't exactly worldbeaters before but it's hard to overcome all those losses, especially Lawson.

Don't leave out they are missing JaVaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaale McGee and Danilo Gallinari

But not having Lawson has been really tough for them. When/if he returns, they will start winning more games.

[Induveca]

So, I click over to Washington Post to see if there's anything worth reading, and (as if on cue) Jason Reid has one of those "narrative" pieces up anointing Wall as a True Star. Not JUST because of an improved jumper or improved decision-making, but because as the once great PG (and REALLY first-rate GM) Isiah Thomas told him, "...it’s not about how many points you score or how many assists you have. It really is about you as a leader, you as a man."

Blech.

Annoying agreed, but there is some validity. Anyone in a work environment requires a peer to motivate them through work ethic and striving to succeed.

I've invested in startups with founders ranging from Harvard MBAs, to college dropouts. Sheer will/stubbornness/work ethic inspires co-workers far more than a methodical numbers scholar any day of the week.

That being said, motivation comes from success....which comes from.hard work.

[hands11]

The Best NBA Scorers in 2013-14: This List Will Surprise You [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DTi88jYjOA[/youtube]

Great video and nice breakdown.

Isaiah Thomas is a machine and was my claim for most bang for the buck player in the league. That video just make him even more valuable.

A smart team needing a PG would out bid the rest for him this off season.

As for Melo. I'm happy this is happening to him. This may save his chances of playing for a good team at a fair price and in a way that leads to wins. He needed to eat this humble pie. I think there is a much better chance he finishes his career with more relevance and a better player having gone through this.

Melo could still be a the core of a title team. He just needs to mature more mentally as a team player. He has the talent. Just needs to mold it into a winning team concept like Wade, Bosh, LeBron hade to and like Ray, PP, KG had to. He needs to ring chase and go some place where he is not the best name on the team. Like MIA if Bosh leaves would be perfect.

As for the PP comment.. He will go into the HOF. Dude was an awesome SF. http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... aul-pierce

[Illmatic21]

I actually don't think 'Melo would be too bad on this team. He'd be the ideal stretch 4. Melo is not the ISO player that Durant and Lebron are. He's very good but I think he's at his best when he doesn't get the ball at the top of the key. He needs to post up, spot up, and generally play off-ball. It's no surprise that he had his most efficient season playing next to Iverson: another player that was at his best when he wasn't the ISO star.

The real problem for 'Melo is if he's on any team that still puts him on the pedestal and thinks the offensive philosophy is to build around him. The track history shows that with a guy like 'melo, you need a strong point guard to make him efficient.

I agree with this post, and with the Paul Pierce comparison above. I really liked Melo in Denver and was super excited when Iverson ended up there. If Melo were to come to DC with a respect for John Wall and his game, I think a competent coach (George Karl, anyone) could get the offense to work - John runs the break and if it's not there, run the half-court through Melo.

They wouldn't be a perfect team, but how many teams are? We'd be an elite defensive C away from being a darn good team that's followed nationally. Make a run over the next 3-4 years, and then shake things up. Considering the other options, I'm not seeing this as a bad plan at all.

Would have to be a different coach, George Karl hates Carmelo. He's been trashing him in the media ever since Denver traded him away.

We'd probably need a coach with more decorum about himself, like a Lionel Hollins

[Kanyewest]

I think LeBron James would be a good coach for Carmelo.

[Illmatic21]

Some movement in the standings, Chicago has officially passed Toronto for the 3rd seed.

As of now we'd be matched up with the Raptors in the 4/5 matchup. Even though we've had success against the Bulls and not so much against the Raps, regular season doesn't mean ishh. Playing Toronto is preferable in the postseason. They're the least experienced team in the playoffs (other than Charlotte)

[deneem4]

^^^No one on Toronto roster has been to the playoffs

[Illmatic21]

Lowry hasn't been to the playoffs? He was a backup, but I feel like the Rockets must have made it when he was there.

[hands11]

Some movement in the standings, Chicago has officially passed Toronto for the 3rd seed.

As of now we'd be matched up with the Raptors in the 4/5 matchup. Even though we've had success against the Bulls and not so much against the Raps, regular season doesn't mean ishh. Playing Toronto is preferable in the postseason. They're the least experienced team in the playoffs (other than Charlotte)

Not for long. TOR beat GS today.

Took the game down the stretch. That is a good team and DeRozan is becoming a stud. Baby Wade. Gets to the line a lot. I like DeRozan. Wait until next year when his 3 ball is even better. First AS appearance this year. He is getting better and better and getting ready to break out as a legit stud.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400489757

[pineappleheadindc]

I was out of the house all day, so I recorded the Knicks vs Bulls game. Just watched it, well just the first half actually. New York sucks. Nobody's even trying. And it's not like they have incentive to tank, they will be sending Denver their pick.

There's no defensive effort. No help on D. Nobody makes any effort. Noah took a board for Chicago and he, a center, dribbled to coast-to-coast for an uncontested jam. Nobody made an effort to stop the ball.

Tyson Chandler remains a pouting, lazy female dog whose primary attribute seems to be that he is tall. The Knicks collection of guards couldn't hold their own at Barry Farms. J.R. Smith .... SMH....I'm struggling to find words mean and crappy enough to describe his game. But the English language does not possess a single word that can combine stupid, self-possessed, uncaring, selfish, overrated, and dog poo.

Their coach lacks any self respect. When the Knicks went down like 19-4, he didn't bat an eye. I would lined up 5 completely new guys at the scorer's table. Popovich would done the same thing, but also skinned those dudes alive. Then, they'd be on the first plane out to Charlotte.

The current Knicks are an affront to the noble game of basketball. They are a franchise with a long and storied tradition. Their fan base does not deserve this disaster. I know in this situation, the normal thing is to fire the coach. The thinking is that you can't fire all the players. To which I respond: why not.

The Knicks are not going anywhere. They have one asset, Melo, who is going to jump ship at he end of the season (if he doesn't, he's crazy). Start the rebuild now. Unload everyone if there are any takers. If there's a team who has injured players with a shorter contracts or are hard working character guys, see if you can get them for any able-bodied Knick. Move everyone.

I am a basketball, primarily NBA basketball, fan. I don't have to watch the home town Wizards to enjoy watching a game. But I'm hereby on strike from watching any more Knick games. They're horrible to watch and I refuse to add to the ratings when they're on tv.