Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[Meliorus]

Denver gets a big with some upside (more than Okafor) and a first rounder in the deepest draft in years??? **** they'll get a chance to draft a star at pick 20.

Denver gave up a pick, bro.

**** meant to say Portland.

[NatP4]

Denver gets a big with some upside (more than Okafor) and a first rounder in the deepest draft in years??? **** they'll get a chance to draft a star at pick 20.

I think you meant Portland?

[NatP4]

the Barton Hernangomez trade, or the Hezonja Ibaka trade seem possible now. Being buyers in a huge sellers market SHOULD give us a great opportunity to challenge Cleveland this year.

You're on the clock ERNIE, 10 days.

[gambitx777]

Reading the denver thread right now lol ITS GREAT !

[NatP4]

Galinari from Denver is another interesting player, would only be a rental, but he could add that scoring and give us a true backup power forward.

[gambitx777]

Gallo is on the books next year for 15, but with his injury history he would never opt out of guaranteed money. mahinmi for gallo works but he does get hurt alot hes hurt now. I'd pass on gallo and just try to work on chandler, barton, or hernengomez.

[bealwithit]

Am I missing something with Nurkic's on court value? That 19% TOV% looks like good fodder for a Shaqtin' A Fool hour-long special before a Portland follow up trade to the Qingdao DoubleStars for a porcelain tea-caddy filled with duck offals.

People remembered hearing about him having a good rookie season and he gets confused with Jokic a lot. (I plead guilty to that one)
Dude is dookie. Maybe a move to Portland will help him playing with Lillard/McCollum.

hes not a bad player, his numbers were down because he landed in the dog house in denver. He is a good young offensive big who can rebound well enough and block some shots. He needs work on his D but hes 22.

I'm not gonna sit around arguing about some dude who isn't on our team and clearly presenting stats to you isn't working, so I'll let some RealGM Nugget fans take it away!

He has sucked, really sucked since he became a bitch about not starting. He also was putting up empty stats when it appeared he didn't suck. Meaning, when he was the starter his numbers were ok but the team was in a nosedive. He goes to the bench and it's night and day.

The more dismaying thing is how he basically gave up when he didn't start. Gained weight. Played like crap. Went public about wanting to be traded. Didn't come out of the locker room at halftime because he hadn't played and was gone when the game ended. All signs of a bad egg diva.

- nomansland

Read on Twitter

Nurkic has been complete garbage for a year and a half now.

- MrBaynes

Sounds like people think we traded 2015 nurkic.
He has been beyond horrible this year. On and off the court.

- Nuggets_Talk

He could still end up a decent player considering he's 22, but he ain't really nothing right now.

[payitforward]

Read on Twitter

Ibaka to help of the bench?

I only see two trade scenarios for Ibaka.

1. We swap Mahinmi straight up for Ibaka. It would be a 30-game rental for us, but Ibaka is an upgrade over Mahinmi, and it gets us out of Mahinmi's long term deal, helping us avoid the luxtax. In this scenario, we have no intention of resigning Ibaka so it makes no sense for us to include any future picks, other than maybe a 2nd rounder. I have to assume Orlando can do better than that though.

2. We trade Mahinmi and a 2017 pick for Ibaka, but only under the pretense that Ted is willing to pay a significant luxtax penalty. As it stands now, we project to be maybe $2M over the luxtax. This deal frees up another $18M in cap room (Mahinmi's $16.6M deal plus the pick) to devote to Ibaka's new contract. His new contract might be $25M or so, so that would put us about $9M over the luxtax. Maybe a 3-way is worked out where we give Jason Smith away for raw cap space to reduce that penalty. Then we'd be more like $4M over the luxtax with the following team:

PG Wall/Sato
SG Beal/McClellan
SF Porter/Oubre
PF Ibaka/Morris
C Gortat/Ibaka

That's pretty damn good.

EDIT: On second thought, I'm not interested. Ibaka doesn't really look to be that good anymore. His box score numbers are lousy, though he has always had a better on-the-court impact that his box score suggests. However, this year, even his RPM numbers look pretty weak. It's hard to find a statistical rationale to prove that he is better than Morris.

Of course, that doesn't account for the John Wall effect. He does shoot well from 3-point range and Wall will get him more looks.

Hallelujah! I've been pointing this out for some weeks now.

OTOH, straight up for Mahinmi (as I've also said several times) -- absolutely! The trade can't make us worse. Then let him go in the off-season. Solves a lot of problems!

[gambitx777]

Read on Twitter

Ibaka to help of the bench?

I only see two trade scenarios for Ibaka.

1. We swap Mahinmi straight up for Ibaka. It would be a 30-game rental for us, but Ibaka is an upgrade over Mahinmi, and it gets us out of Mahinmi's long term deal, helping us avoid the luxtax. In this scenario, we have no intention of resigning Ibaka so it makes no sense for us to include any future picks, other than maybe a 2nd rounder. I have to assume Orlando can do better than that though.

2. We trade Mahinmi and a 2017 pick for Ibaka, but only under the pretense that Ted is willing to pay a significant luxtax penalty. As it stands now, we project to be maybe $2M over the luxtax. This deal frees up another $18M in cap room (Mahinmi's $16.6M deal plus the pick) to devote to Ibaka's new contract. His new contract might be $25M or so, so that would put us about $9M over the luxtax. Maybe a 3-way is worked out where we give Jason Smith away for raw cap space to reduce that penalty. Then we'd be more like $4M over the luxtax with the following team:

PG Wall/Sato
SG Beal/McClellan
SF Porter/Oubre
PF Ibaka/Morris
C Gortat/Ibaka

That's pretty damn good.

EDIT: On second thought, I'm not interested. Ibaka doesn't really look to be that good anymore. His box score numbers are lousy, though he has always had a better on-the-court impact that his box score suggests. However, this year, even his RPM numbers look pretty weak. It's hard to find a statistical rationale to prove that he is better than Morris.

Of course, that doesn't account for the John Wall effect. He does shoot well from 3-point range and Wall will get him more looks.

Hallelujah! I've been pointing this out for some weeks now.

OTOH, straight up for Mahinmi (as I've also said several times) -- absolutely! The trade can't make us worse. Then let him go in the off-season. Solves a lot of problems!

One thing here, I don't think you start him over morris. I think you let him back up both gortat and morris off the bench if you have not intentions of keeping him. don't mess with team chemistry if he is not staying. Would you be cool with tossing Aaron white and a second their way in this deal if that was a deal breaker for them ?

[payitforward]

...I rarely post on another teams trade thread but I just felt compelled to point out that with how much money the Magic already have invested at center with Biyombo and Vucevic I really don't see much chance that they'd take Mahinmi in a trade unless one of them are going out at the same time.

This too I've pointed out a bunch of times!

& then there are the people who suggest trading Nicholson to Orlando! The team that didn't even give him his qualifying offer.

[payitforward]

Hi guys brand new to the forum
I am just curious as to why people are so high on Oubre He's only averaging around 6 points a game and the last 2 games total he has a whopping 1 point combined
Please keep in mind I live near Charlotte NC and I don't get to see them much so I just go by stats and they're not very good

It's not gonna show in the stats, but Oubre at 21yo is probably the team's most talented perimeter defender. He has prototypical size & athleticism for a wing (6'7 with a crazy 7'2 wingspan, same as Kawhi Leonard iirc), very quick hands/feet and he brings a lot defensively with his ability to guard multiple positions.

His 3pt shot is inconsistent, which to my eye is because he doesn't always remember to have his feet set before shooting. But from the legs up, his shot mechanics are pure and he's shown the potential to become a high-level 3&d guy ala Trevor Ariza, if not even better. He's shown flashes of being able to do some dangerous stuff off the dribble and get to the basket/draw fouls, but needs a lot of polishing before his offense catches up with his defense (he's also clearly not strong enough yet to finish at the rim on a regular basis).

KO has been part of Washington's most effective lineups, which is a credit to Brooks finding out how to utilize him and get the most out of him. People aren't saying he's a future MVP or anything (well most of us aren't saying that), but Oubre is producing on a rookie contract and clearly a high upside core player we wouldn't wanna trade...

Even more importantly, IMO, he's shown significant improvement over last year. Can't know how it'll work out, of course, but there are many many positive indications for Oubre.

[payitforward]

Now that you guys see how little Nurkic went for, will people STOP posting fair trades. Draft picks are worth so much, and players are worth little to none. Everything needs to be a low-ball because that's the state of the market right now.

They traded Nurkic & Memphis's 2017 R1 pick (likely @#24) for Mason Plumlee & Portland's 2018 R2 pick (likely @ 37).

Plumlee has played @28 minutes a game for Portland this year, & he's played very well. In fact, he's played well his whole career. As a player, he's clearly worth more than Nurkic right now. That explains the added draft pick swap.

I don't right off see how this shows that picks are worth a lot & players worth only a little.

Of course, Nurkic may surprise by developing a lot. He has more potential for that than Plumlee, as he is 4+ years younger. But Denver is in the unusual position of not being able to care all that much about that factor -- b/c of Jokic.

[payitforward]

Ok fair enough
I'm just trying to come up with ways E.G. can improve the bench
It's hard to imagine a deep playoff run as the starters will be exhausted so the bench desperately needs to be addressed

Welcome to the Board, BurtGummer -- glad you are here!

[bealwithit]

Now that you guys see how little Nurkic went for, will people STOP posting fair trades. Draft picks are worth so much, and players are worth little to none. Everything needs to be a low-ball because that's the state of the market right now.

They traded Nurkic & Memphis's 2017 R1 pick (likely @#24) for Mason Plumlee & Portland's 2018 R2 pick (likely @ 37).

Plumlee has played @28 minutes a game for Portland this year, & he's played very well. In fact, he's played well his whole career. As a player, he's clearly worth more than Nurkic right now. That explains the added draft pick swap.

I don't right off see how this shows that picks are worth a lot & players worth only a little.

Of course, Nurkic may surprise by developing a lot. He has more potential for that than Plumlee, as he is 4+ years younger. But Denver is in the unusual position of not being able to care all that much about that factor -- b/c of Jokic.

I was surprised like everyone else when the trade first came out, but Plumlee being restricted makes it a whole lot more even. Jokic/Plumlee as a duo of high quality passing big men... lotta offensive possibilities there.

[NatP4]

that Ibaka tweet is from a couple weeks ago, and the wizards already came out and said they have no interest because he could simply walk this offseason. Ernie is looking for players under contract it sounds like. Also came out and said they have no interest in Barton. No idea if we're even looking to make a move or what he might be looking at.

[bealwithit]

that Ibaka tweet is from a couple weeks ago, and the wizards already came out and said they have no interest because he could simply walk this offseason. Ernie is looking for players under contract it sounds like. Also came out and said they have no interest in Barton. No idea if we're even looking to make a move or what he might be looking at.

Yeah, the downplaying of this sort of stuff from J Michael makes it feel like they're going to stand pat, which is ultimately the right move. Obviously anything can happen since I don't think there were any indications we were interested in Markieff before it happened. I still hope we try to make a move for a vet PG tho.

[payitforward]

Now that you guys see how little Nurkic went for, will people STOP posting fair trades. Draft picks are worth so much, and players are worth little to none. Everything needs to be a low-ball because that's the state of the market right now.

Wait what did nurkic go for? I didn't see

Here is the thing about that deal. Denver were the buyers and portland were the sellers. Nurkic only value in that deal is that he is a health cheap locked in contract at center. They traded plumlee because they know hes going to get about 16-20 mill next year on the open market and they don't want to pay him that. so they moved him.... Over all portland fleeced them. they got a young solid cheep big one cheap contract next year and a valuable pick in a valuable draft, for a big that while really good, they wanted to dump and not pay. portland won hands down. and Nurkic did not have the value they said he did, because they did not trade plumlee for nurkic. they traded plumless for the pick and got nurkic as filler for a 2018 seconds round pick which a denver poster just laughed at me about yesterday right here in this thread lol.

First point -- Portland has $134m+ in guaranteed salaries on the books for next year!! Not that they didn't want to pay Plumlee, they absolutely couldn't pay him!

Second point -- I don't think so. Not at all. Portland & Denver each had players they absolutely had to trade. If that weren't the case, I can't see why Portland would have let Plumlee go for such a late R1 pick. It's because right now Plumlee is more valuable than Nurkic that the exchange of picks was required in order to make the deal even.

Keep in mind that it's likely only an exchange of about a dozen spots in draft order, & that guys picked in the last @7 in R1 aren't any more likely to be successful in the league than guys picked in the top 10 in R2. Compare for yourself over the last 5 years.

This deal was good for both parties.

[gambitx777]

Wait what did nurkic go for? I didn't see

Here is the thing about that deal. Denver were the buyers and portland were the sellers. Nurkic only value in that deal is that he is a health cheap locked in contract at center. They traded plumlee because they know hes going to get about 16-20 mill next year on the open market and they don't want to pay him that. so they moved him.... Over all portland fleeced them. they got a young solid cheep big one cheap contract next year and a valuable pick in a valuable draft, for a big that while really good, they wanted to dump and not pay. portland won hands down. and Nurkic did not have the value they said he did, because they did not trade plumlee for nurkic. they traded plumless for the pick and got nurkic as filler for a 2018 seconds round pick which a denver poster just laughed at me about yesterday right here in this thread lol.

First point -- Portland has $134m+ in guaranteed salaries on the books for next year!! Not that they didn't want to pay Plumlee, they absolutely couldn't pay him!

Second point -- I don't think so. Not at all. Portland & Denver each had players they absolutely had to trade. If that weren't the case, I can't see why Portland would have let Plumlee go for such a late R1 pick. It's because right now Plumlee is more valuable than Nurkic that the exchange of picks was required in order to make the deal even.

Keep in mind that it's likely only an exchange of about a dozen spots in draft order, & that guys picked in the last @7 in R1 aren't any more likely to be successful in the league than guys picked in the top 10 in R2. Compare for yourself over the last 5 years.

This deal was good for both parties.

I think thats flawed logic piff, its a different draft. that guy they gave up might be something he might not but. still a 2017 first for a guy you now have to turn around and pay 16 mill + for. thats a bit high of a price. Nurkic was worth the second that im not arguing with. it was basically 2 trades. Plumlee for a first and a second for nurkic. And they could have paid him. if they wanted to go into the tax, the can go over to match offers on restricted free agents like we are going to with otto. But they did not want to do that and I don't blame them.

[payitforward]

Portland has a terrible cap situation and probably were not going to be able to re-sign Plumlee. Plumlee is a good player. Nurkic sucks. They get a 1st in a deep draft while Denver could end up losing Nurkic, Plumlee, AND the 1st if Plumlee goes elsewhere. Considering Plumlee will probably get paid big bucks by someone and Denver sucks... yeesh. Don't see why he would stay.

If Denver is this dumb, call em up right now lmao

I don't get your point, esp. given what you write.

Denver trades a guy you say sucks for a guy you call a good player. To make this happen they add a pick swap that will likely turn out to be @12 spots. Yes, this will be a strong draft, but that's still a statistically insignificant difference in pick situations. Especially given the fact that if you pick someone late in R1, you have to guarantee him.

How does this make Denver "dumb?" It's not like Plumlee is unrestricted at the end of the season -- they can give him a qualifying offer & match his best offer, or just sign him. They have tons of cap room. It's also not like Nurkic's development is a guaranteed thing either. For that matter, they may not have cap room to sign him year after next even if he does develop.

This is just two teams solving each other's short-term problem. It may not work out for either of them, or it may also work out well for both teams.

[payitforward]

Portland has a terrible cap situation and probably were not going to be able to re-sign Plumlee. Plumlee is a good player. Nurkic sucks. They get a 1st in a deep draft while Denver could end up losing Nurkic, Plumlee, AND the 1st if Plumlee goes elsewhere. Considering Plumlee will probably get paid big bucks by someone and Denver sucks... yeesh. Don't see why he would stay.

If Denver is this dumb, call em up right now lmao

... I was dead on about nurkic being worth a second and he was. ...

However do you come up with that I wonder? Nurkic & a very late R1 pick brought Plumlee (a better player) & a pretty high R2 pick.