Political Roundtable Part XVII

[Pointgod]

Real talk imo

Watch on YouTube

over 100,000(11K just in this tweet) people have found this line of questioning bullying and wondering of booker has a problem with women. Misogynist anyone???? One type of "ism" for another? With some hypocrisy sprinkled on top?

A lot of women are going to ask themselves if Corey Booker is fit to serve the US senate. I mean. He wasn't questioning any type of criminal or anyone with any type of criminal accusations and she had answered the same questions to 3 different senators. To the contrary of her being any type of criminal, he was questioning the sitting US depart of homeland security secretary. Unlike trump, this was public meeting/hearing. With the cameras rolling. he should be ashamed of himself. He owes her a proportionate apology. and if he doesn't apologize to her and all women, frankly, he should resign or be censored by the Senate. Perhaps removed. That type of behavior is

LOL...c'mon man. Not buying this.

Have you ever watched any of these hearings before?

People are GRILLED. Both men and women. Both parties.

But if that's the way you want to play this game I expect the same reaction from you when a female member of the opposition party is being questioned.


But ignoring that, did you see the ENTIRE hearing?

I did and what irked Booker and many others is that she blatantly lied over and over again.

Ok. well if she didn't lie then she's showing the signs of early dementia and should resign.


Sen Booker was right, including what he said about Trump's words.


Donald J Trump is a racist.

If you can support someone like that, more power to you.

I can't and won't.

Sorry.


One other thing: Did you read about what lead up to the meeting in the WH on immigration?

Well basically, Trump had a deal with Durbin/Graham and literally flipped within two hours.

I only bring this up because your manta for months has been "Give Trump what he wants. Work with him. He's dying to make a deal".

And this isn't the first time he's pulled this. Did it with Schumer and Pelosi as well.

So I pose the question to you: Why should the Democrats enter into any agreement with Trump if he's already showing that his word doesn't mean much?

Trump has shown that he can't be trusted and he will change his mind on a whim. The Democrats should not agree to a **** border wall under any circumstances. Continue negotiating with the Republicans that aren't completely **** crazy and come to a deal that will pass in both the house and Congress. Trump will sign whatever makes him look good, give him a **** fence and let him call that a wall. Get CHIP funded, get a DACA deal done but don't give Trump that **** wall.

[Wizardspride]

Fwiw...

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

So I pose the question to you: Why should the Democrats enter into any agreement with Trump if he's already showing that his word doesn't mean much?

You always negotiate - but a deal isn't a deal until it is signed into law. That goes with any negotiation between parties. Until an agreement is reached - there is no agreement.

This is what irked me about the relationship between the Rs and Obama. The Rs wouldn't sit down at the table to see if there were issues that they both agreed on and could move forward.

That one party would back-track on an agreement - I would say that is part of the process but does show that there is ongoing dialog.

Maybe I should rephrase that:

Why should the Democrats TRUST Trump to keep his end of the bargain?

Yeah, no deal is offical until its on paper but if you have someone who makes a habit out reneging....

The issues and the "deal" on immigration is, was, and remains:

dems want Daca, and amnesty as part of that DACA deal. This is worth approximately 1-3 million potential votes for them which could swing a presidental election in places like florida and possibly arizona and new mexico. They want this badly. And the Dems estimate that this issue (as a one issue voter) could mean as many as 10-15 million voters. Which could affect even more states. So this is huge for D's.

And D's know this. And this is why D's have been kicking this can down the road. Its better for D's for this to remain an issue that to deal with the issue. This is one of their main campaign pledges. They get votes for campaigning on this issue. What about when the issue is finally addressed??? well for D's they want weak borders so they can have an ongoing never ending "DACA" to camapaign on continuously. Because many hispanic families will no longer vote for D's once this DACA issue is dead and gone due to finally securing the border. Think about that. D's dont care about borrowing into oblivion to pay for entitlement programs so long as D's remain in power. Which is kind of sick, if you ask me. It's disgusting. Its not 1900 anymore. We dont have low end manufacturing jobs for everyone and anyone. Those jobs are scarce. We need to be selective about who we bring in (and race has nothing to do with it). The country of origin doesn't matter unless there is a high risk of that person being a terrorist threat. What matters is that immigrant can find gainful employment while not taking the job away from an existing American (especially an urban african american who already have the highest unemployment rates. And frankly, (IMO) the congressional black caucus is doing a disservice to to their constituents by not getting ahead of this and making a deal with R's which will encourage congress to simultaneously make deals (with local mayors) where we put our existing african-americans back to work in inner cities to the same proportion and whites, hispanic, and asians.

R's are willing to grant amnesty (again)just like they did in 1986. But they want the border secure this time. Finally. So there is not another amnesty issue in 5-10 years. They want true immigration reform.

And along the way R's want to address the fact that our existing Americans(especially african-american) were just unemployed at super high rates. We just came out of that recession but there is still ground to cover and legislation to be made that discourages that from happening again. 17% unemployment rates!!! IN THE UNITED STATES!! not to be high and mighty but there is no reason for that in this country. If Obama would have simply deported all the illegals in 2008, those unemployment rates would have been cut in half almost overnight. Then obama could have cut the corporate tax rate in half to 17% in 2008 and he would have repatriated the trillions that Trump has repatriated in the last year. Those 2 things could have averted this recession and made it a bump in the road. Instead we had an 8 year full chub depression. but i digress.

R's want true immigration reform.
1. Which means FUNDING for the Wall, fence, whatever. secure the border.
2. Move to merit based immigration. Trump got caught with his pants down on speaking about this but his sentiment is correct. We dont need people coming here that the rest of the american tax payer needs to pay more taxes for...nor people that come here and take jobs away from the class that has trouble finding and keeping gainful employment.
3. End chain (family based migration) which is a part of merit based.
4. Ending the visa lottery (which also speaks to merit based immigration).

So its really 2 things. 1. Wall 2. merit based immigration

R's are willing to grant full amnesty right now. And extend CHIP for another 6 years right now.

D's need to take the deal!!! Its a fair deal!!!! the only reason they wont take the deal is because they dont want (th eoptics) that show trump wins. Thats it! they just dont want this man to win. they are only thinking about elections instead of meaningful and necessary reform.

[stilldropin20]

over 100,000(11K just in this tweet) people have found this line of questioning bullying and wondering of booker has a problem with women. Misogynist anyone???? One type of "ism" for another? With some hypocrisy sprinkled on top?

A lot of women are going to ask themselves if Corey Booker is fit to serve the US senate. I mean. He wasn't questioning any type of criminal or anyone with any type of criminal accusations and she had answered the same questions to 3 different senators. To the contrary of her being any type of criminal, he was questioning the sitting US depart of homeland security secretary. Unlike trump, this was public meeting/hearing. With the cameras rolling. he should be ashamed of himself. He owes her a proportionate apology. and if he doesn't apologize to her and all women, frankly, he should resign or be censored by the Senate. Perhaps removed. That type of behavior is

LOL...c'mon man. Not buying this.

Have you ever watched any of these hearings before?

People are GRILLED. Both men and women. Both parties.

But if that's the way you want to play this game I expect the same reaction from you when a female member of the opposition party is being questioned.


But ignoring that, did you see the ENTIRE hearing?

I did and what irked Booker and many others is that she blatantly lied over and over again.

Ok. well if she didn't lie then she's showing the signs of early dementia and should resign.


Sen Booker was right, including what he said about Trump's words.


Donald J Trump is a racist.

If you can support someone like that, more power to you.

I can't and won't.

Sorry.


One other thing: Did you read about what lead up to the meeting in the WH on immigration?

Well basically, Trump had a deal with Durbin/Graham and literally flipped within two hours.

I only bring this up because your manta for months has been "Give Trump what he wants. Work with him. He's dying to make a deal".

And this isn't the first time he's pulled this. Did it with Schumer and Pelosi as well.

So I pose the question to you: Why should the Democrats enter into any agreement with Trump if he's already showing that his word doesn't mean much?

Trump has shown that he can't be trusted and he will change his mind on a whim. The Democrats should not agree to a **** border wall under any circumstances. Continue negotiating with the Republicans that aren't completely **** crazy and come to a deal that will pass in both the house and Congress. Trump will sign whatever makes him look good, give him a **** fence and let him call that a wall. Get CHIP funded, get a DACA deal done but don't give Trump that **** wall.

wrong.

see my last post as to how this will go down.

you would be a terrible negotiator. Look. I have (threatened) to walk away from real estate deals that were signed months in advance, under contract, sitting at the closing table. You have to understand where you have leverage and where you dont. and you need to understand where to exert your leverage and where not to.

Good negotiators may be annoying. but when they are patient, they work over the other side. Work them the phuck over.

Trump has been doing this for 50 years. This is second nature for him. This is how you win. Its a mix of good cop/bad cop. friend and frienemy. and sometimes you just pull out a dagger and stick it in a frenemies back. Thats how you win. And if you are transparent an unemotional about it, your defeated frienemy will respect you. Likely hire you in future negotiations on their behalf.

[Wizardspride]

You always negotiate - but a deal isn't a deal until it is signed into law. That goes with any negotiation between parties. Until an agreement is reached - there is no agreement.

This is what irked me about the relationship between the Rs and Obama. The Rs wouldn't sit down at the table to see if there were issues that they both agreed on and could move forward.

That one party would back-track on an agreement - I would say that is part of the process but does show that there is ongoing dialog.

Maybe I should rephrase that:

Why should the Democrats TRUST Trump to keep his end of the bargain?

Yeah, no deal is offical until its on paper but if you have someone who makes a habit out reneging....

The issues and the "deal" on immigration is, was, and remains:

dems want Daca, and amnesty as part of that DACA deal. This is worth approximately 1-3 million potential votes for them which could swing a presidental election in places like florida and possibly arizona and new mexico. They want this badly. And the Dems estimate that this issue (as a one issue voter) could mean as many as 10-15 million voters. Which could affect even more states. So this is huge for D's.

And D's know this. And this is why D's have been kicking this can down the road. Its better for D's for this to remain an issue that to deal with the issue. This is one of their main campaign pledges. They get votes for campaigning on this issue. What about when the issue is finally addressed??? well for D's they want weak borders so they can have an ongoing never ending "DACA" to camapaign on continuously. Because many hispanic families will no longer vote for D's once this DACA issue is dead and gone due to finally securing the border. Think about that. D's dont care about borrowing into oblivion to pay for entitlement programs so long as D's remain in power. Which is kind of sick, if you ask me. It's disgusting. Its not 1900 anymore. We dont have low end manufacturing jobs for everyone and anyone. Those jobs are scarce. We need to be selective about who we bring in (and race has nothing to do with it). The country of origin doesn't matter unless there is a high risk of that person being a terrorist threat. What matters is that immigrant can find gainful employment while not taking the job away from an existing American (especially an urban african american who already have the highest unemployment rates. And frankly, (IMO) the congressional black caucus is doing a disservice to to their constituents by not getting ahead of this and making a deal with R's which will encourage congress to simultaneously make deals (with local mayors) where we put our existing african-americans back to work in inner cities to the same proportion and whites, hispanic, and asians.

R's are willing to grant amnesty (again)just like they did in 1986. But they want the border secure this time. Finally. So there is not another amnesty issue in 5-10 years. They want true immigration reform.

And along the way R's want to address the fact that our existing Americans(especially african-american) were just unemployed at super high rates. We just came out of that recession but there is still ground to cover and legislation to be made that discourages that from happening again. 17% unemployment rates!!! IN THE UNITED STATES!! not to be high and mighty but there is no reason for that in this country. If Obama would have simply deported all the illegals in 2008, those unemployment rates would have been cut in half almost overnight. Then obama could have cut the corporate tax rate in half to 17% in 2008 and he would have repatriated the trillions that Trump has repatriated in the last year. Those 2 things could have averted this recession and made it a bump in the road. Instead we had an 8 year full chub depression. but i digress.

R's want true immigration reform.
1. Which means FUNDING for the Wall, fence, whatever. secure the border.
2. Move to merit based immigration. Trump got caught with his pants down on speaking about this but his sentiment is correct. We dont need people coming here that the rest of the american tax payer needs to pay more taxes for...nor people that come here and take jobs away from the class that has trouble finding and keeping gainful employment.
3. End chain (family based migration) which is a part of merit based.
4. Ending the visa lottery (which also speaks to merit based immigration).

So its really 2 things. 1. Wall 2. merit based immigration

R's are willing to grant full amnesty right now. And extend CHIP for another 6 years right now.

D's need to take the deal!!! Its a fair deal!!!! the only reason they wont take the deal is because they dont want (th eoptics) that show trump wins. Thats it! they just dont want this man to win. they are only thinking about elections instead of meaningful and necessary reform.

You've been doing this for months and it drives me crazy.

I'll ask you a simple question and you just go off on these rants that never addresses what I actually asked.

I'll repeat it again: Your manta has been "Work with Trump. Give him what he wants. He's dying to make a deal".

Me: Considering he keeps backing out of deals why should the Dems trust him?

[FAH1223]

https://www.facebook.com/corey.robin1/posts/1619617334770648

I'm not a cheerleader for the Democrats, and very much worry about the state of that party. (For just one instance of why I am worried, see the Washington Post piece from today that I'm posting in the comment thread.) Why this story interests me—beyond the excellent news that yet another Republican has lost—is that it shows the electoral weakness of the Republican Party. Particularly at the state level and in Wisconsin, of all places, where Walker and the Republicans did a dress rehearsal during the Obama years of the Trump show. We on the left have been pointing out the structural weaknesses of the Democratic Party, particularly at the state level. One election doesn't structural strength make, but it does show that there is a lot of attention being paid at the state and local level to try and wrest power back from the Republicans. And it does reinforce the point I've been making since Trump's election: the GOP is a lot weaker, politically (not at the administrative state level but in the public at large), than we might think. And this district, in Wisconsin, had been Republican since 2000.

[stilldropin20]

Maybe I should rephrase that:

Why should the Democrats TRUST Trump to keep his end of the bargain?

Yeah, no deal is offical until its on paper but if you have someone who makes a habit out reneging....

The issues and the "deal" on immigration is, was, and remains:

dems want Daca, and amnesty as part of that DACA deal. This is worth approximately 1-3 million potential votes for them which could swing a presidental election in places like florida and possibly arizona and new mexico. They want this badly. And the Dems estimate that this issue (as a one issue voter) could mean as many as 10-15 million voters. Which could affect even more states. So this is huge for D's.

And D's know this. And this is why D's have been kicking this can down the road. Its better for D's for this to remain an issue that to deal with the issue. This is one of their main campaign pledges. They get votes for campaigning on this issue. What about when the issue is finally addressed??? well for D's they want weak borders so they can have an ongoing never ending "DACA" to camapaign on continuously. Because many hispanic families will no longer vote for D's once this DACA issue is dead and gone due to finally securing the border. Think about that. D's dont care about borrowing into oblivion to pay for entitlement programs so long as D's remain in power. Which is kind of sick, if you ask me. It's disgusting. Its not 1900 anymore. We dont have low end manufacturing jobs for everyone and anyone. Those jobs are scarce. We need to be selective about who we bring in (and race has nothing to do with it). The country of origin doesn't matter unless there is a high risk of that person being a terrorist threat. What matters is that immigrant can find gainful employment while not taking the job away from an existing American (especially an urban african american who already have the highest unemployment rates. And frankly, (IMO) the congressional black caucus is doing a disservice to to their constituents by not getting ahead of this and making a deal with R's which will encourage congress to simultaneously make deals (with local mayors) where we put our existing african-americans back to work in inner cities to the same proportion and whites, hispanic, and asians.

R's are willing to grant amnesty (again)just like they did in 1986. But they want the border secure this time. Finally. So there is not another amnesty issue in 5-10 years. They want true immigration reform.

And along the way R's want to address the fact that our existing Americans(especially african-american) were just unemployed at super high rates. We just came out of that recession but there is still ground to cover and legislation to be made that discourages that from happening again. 17% unemployment rates!!! IN THE UNITED STATES!! not to be high and mighty but there is no reason for that in this country. If Obama would have simply deported all the illegals in 2008, those unemployment rates would have been cut in half almost overnight. Then obama could have cut the corporate tax rate in half to 17% in 2008 and he would have repatriated the trillions that Trump has repatriated in the last year. Those 2 things could have averted this recession and made it a bump in the road. Instead we had an 8 year full chub depression. but i digress.

R's want true immigration reform.
1. Which means FUNDING for the Wall, fence, whatever. secure the border.
2. Move to merit based immigration. Trump got caught with his pants down on speaking about this but his sentiment is correct. We dont need people coming here that the rest of the american tax payer needs to pay more taxes for...nor people that come here and take jobs away from the class that has trouble finding and keeping gainful employment.
3. End chain (family based migration) which is a part of merit based.
4. Ending the visa lottery (which also speaks to merit based immigration).

So its really 2 things. 1. Wall 2. merit based immigration

R's are willing to grant full amnesty right now. And extend CHIP for another 6 years right now.

D's need to take the deal!!! Its a fair deal!!!! the only reason they wont take the deal is because they dont want (th eoptics) that show trump wins. Thats it! they just dont want this man to win. they are only thinking about elections instead of meaningful and necessary reform.

You've been doing this for months and it drives me crazy.

I'll ask you a simple question and you just go off on these rants that never addresses what I actually asked.

I'll repeat it again: Your manta has been "Work with Trump. Give him what he wants. He's dying to make a deal".

Me: Considering he keeps backing out of deals why should the Dems trust him?

Anyone negotiating with Trump needs to understand how he negotiates. This is quite normal in the business world. To feel like you have a deal one day. And the next week not have a deal. Not talk again for months. Then wait until for one side comes back to the table (and then negotiate from a stronger or weaker position). trump believes in leverage while negotiating and will use that leverage. But he is a transparent negotiator. FULLY TRANSPARENT. you know what he wants. he campaigned on all of it for 18 months!!! and he understands he HAS to give up something.

If i were negotiating on behalf of D's I would simply understand that I need to be patient. Earn his respect. And make closet sideline deals...thats if I want to get things done. If i want to fix things.

now if I just want to win elections and not fix things???? Just keep doing what the D's are doing now. This is all about optics for them. and frankly, trump is beating them on this front too no matter how much they scream racist! Because his ploicies are actually FAIR and fixing things. and the american people can see it. feel it. and smell it.

The only reason trump doesn't have 70% approval ratings right now is the divisive campaign that led to an all out resist movement where leaks are making him look bad. Not policy!! But leaks!!! and these leaks are all politcal, all hearsay, and all about optics. His policies are fair. Protect the american people. protect the american worker. All of them. black, brown, and white.

[Wizardspride]

So in other words, they can't really trust what he says.

[Pointgod]

https://www.facebook.com/corey.robin1/posts/1619617334770648

I'm not a cheerleader for the Democrats, and very much worry about the state of that party. (For just one instance of why I am worried, see the Washington Post piece from today that I'm posting in the comment thread.) Why this story interests me—beyond the excellent news that yet another Republican has lost—is that it shows the electoral weakness of the Republican Party. Particularly at the state level and in Wisconsin, of all places, where Walker and the Republicans did a dress rehearsal during the Obama years of the Trump show. We on the left have been pointing out the structural weaknesses of the Democratic Party, particularly at the state level. One election doesn't structural strength make, but it does show that there is a lot of attention being paid at the state and local level to try and wrest power back from the Republicans. And it does reinforce the point I've been making since Trump's election: the GOP is a lot weaker, politically (not at the administrative state level but in the public at large), than we might think. And this district, in Wisconsin, had been Republican since 2000.

The Democrats have the momentum and energy behind them at the moment. One thing that Republicans don't realize is the grassroots efforts on the ground at the local and state levels. Alabama wasn't won just because Republicans stayed home it was won because of the people on the ground who were able to mobilize the base. That's why Democrats can't afford to lose momentum by caving to something as idiotic as the border wall.

[Pointgod]

So in other words, they can't really trust what he says.

Trump is such a great negotiator that he's managed to bankrupt multiple businesses and run his business so poorly that no one would loan him money except for shady Russian banks. I actually work in business and there's such a thing as negotiating in bad faith. Trump is used to just bullying and suing contractors who don't have as much money for lawyer fees as he has. He's not a good negotiator as evidence by Chuck and Nancy finessing him into funding the government a couple months ago.

[gtn130]

Self Defense - I believe our military should be able to fight and win two simultaneous wars

How do you even measure this? And two? Why two?

The reason to plan for two is because of lessons learned from history and because that’s the situation we faced in the 1940’s. Germany to our east and Japan to our west. History shows that multiple adversaries often strike simultaneously on different fronts to gain military advantage. How do we measure our capability to achieve this objective? Consult the experts and independent think tanks and then apply common sense.

Bruh you've got like two data points here to justify spending trillions of dollars. This is silly.

And we don't live in the 1940s anymore - the geopolitical environment is totally different, and more importantly the next world war will result in the destruction of humanity.

[Zonkerbl]

Average IQ of central American countries is *not* acceptable - my premise is we are skimming off the top. Also it is well established that IQ tests were explicitly designed to give higher scores to white kids, at least when it was first invented in the early 20th Century. I doubt they've improved it much since then.

It is well established by who? Why would whites devise a test where they score lower than East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews?

Yeah SAT scores are tricky - once you've been here a few generations you are "incumbent" and thus not eligible for comparison. But the newly arrived immigrants aren't native English speakers, so of course their SAT scores will be lower. Also SAT scores are subject to the same cultural bias that IQ tests are. Nevertheless I think you could compare the SAT scores of DACA recipients to the native Hispanic population - if they are higher, then you know we've skimmed off the cream of the crop. Not that I'm saying DACA recipients have to take an SAT test to be eligible for benefits, ugh. I'm just trying to put doubt in your mind though. It's not enough to say "ugh these people are brown let's not let them in." Are these the most entrepreneurially talented members of their respective population? Will they create jobs?

I'm open to the possibility that DACA recipients are somehow the cream of the crop. I'd just like to see some proof. Also, aren't most of the Hispanics currently here also the cream of the crop? Why would we expect DACA immigrants to outperform current cream-of-the-crop Hispanic immigrants and children and grandchildren of cream-of-the-crop Hispanic immigrants?

IQ tests were constructed by getting a group of kids considered successful and a group of kids not considered successful. Ask them a bunch of questions, throw out the questions that both groups can answer about the same, keep the questions that do a good job separating them out.

That's how they designed it. The original choice of "successful" vs. "not successful" entirely drives the test. At the time of the test's devising it was common knowledge that white people were the superior race, so it's basically a "are you a white person" test. Jews do well on IQ tests because we are awesome. And our entire culture has defined success through intensive study for the last four thousand years. It's why we're still around.

I'd like to see proof too, and I'm very curious about the transmission of *talent* from one generation to the next. All I know is that *wealth* gets passed down from one generation to the next. The tests you propose, IQ tests and college graduation rates, are pretty lousy metrics to use for fresh-off-the-boat immigrants. IMHO the ideal test would be lifetime jobs created by the businesses they create.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[closg00]

Read on Twitter

Smell that 2018 wave

[stilldropin20]

So in other words, they can't really trust what he says.

here's what he said. for 18 months. every single day.

1. secure the boarder (with a wall)...eventually said mexico will pay for it.
2. end chain migration.
3. merit based immigration
4. deport illegals (that are criminals)


so i ask, can you trust it?

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

everyone from this administration has fully cooperated. unlike HRC that said I do not recall 119 times to the FBI. unlike that. all questions have been answered. all "evidence" provided. and all the evidence, and all the testimony has given you a big fat juicy nothing burger.

[Wizardspride]

So in other words, they can't really trust what he says.

here's what he said. for 18 months. every single day.

1. secure the boarder (with a wall)...eventually said mexico will pay for it.
2. end chain migration.
3. merit based immigration
4. deport illegals (that are criminals)


so i ask, can you trust it?

How about answering the question I posed to you?

I'll repeat this once again: Your mantra has been "Trump is dying to make a deal. The Democrats need to work with him. Give him what he wants" etc etc.

Me: Trump has reneged on at least two deals so WHY should the Democrats believe he'll negotiate in good faith?

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

everyone from this administration has fully cooperated. unlike HRC that said I do not recall 119 times to the FBI. unlike that. all questions have been answered. all "evidence" provided. and all the evidence, and all the testimony has given you a big fat juicy nothing burger.

Not quite....

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter