Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[Ruzious]

And we'd miss Deni's 7 points a game.

With your demonstrated support of player development and belief in investing in young talent, you could be, truly, a real GM. So long as that GM is Wes Unseld Sr. or Ernie Grunfeld.

By the way, here’s an interesting little Deni stat:

He had 19 contested shots vs. Charlotte — the most on the team (the whole team had 65). Second was Gafford with 16.

That was uncalled for. And I'm not sure that stat has a whole lot of meaning in and of itself. I've been extremely supportive of Deni. I just think Sabonis is a better player - and just 4 years older. He's played in the last 2 All-Star games and statistically is playing his best this season.

[Frichuela]

Yes I would not trade Deni for Sabonis, but I would trade Kuzma+Rui. I think Sabonis is not well utilized by Indiana and he could thrive in a Jokic light role under Wes.

[Rafael122]

It depends on what Indiana wants. Sabonis is on a very friendly contract, compared to what folks are getting now.

They would want a pick or two, a young prospect and probably expirings. I would trade Rui, Bryant and picks for Sabonis. I don't really know what else you can offer.

[bsilver]

Sabonis may be undervalued by some because of the Pacers poor play this year. They miss TJ Warren who hopefully will be back soon. IMO Sabonis is one of the top players in the league, and I wouldn't hesitate to include Deni in a trade if that's what it took, although I'm a Deni fan.

Rui and Bryant have to start playing, and play well to maximize their trade value. Otherwise they won't bring much in return.

[payitforward]

And we'd miss Deni's 7 points a game.

With your demonstrated support of player development and belief in investing in young talent, you could be, truly, a real GM. So long as that GM is Wes Unseld Sr. or Ernie Grunfeld.

By the way, here’s an interesting little Deni stat:

He had 19 contested shots vs. Charlotte — the most on the team (the whole team had 65). Second was Gafford with 16.

That was uncalled for. And I'm not sure that stat has a whole lot of meaning in and of itself. I've been extremely supportive of Deni. I just think Sabonis is a better player - and just 4 years older. He's played in the last 2 All-Star games and statistically is playing his best this season.

He's closer to 5 years older. Still... Sabonis is certainly a better player right now than Deni is right now, even if he's not a good defender (as claimed). I'd love to have him -- why not?

But, I.e. I wouldn't trade a guy w/ Deni's promise, who just turned 21, based on his present value. As you yourself wrote, Sabonis is not going to bring us a ring, so we don't want to over-pay for him. In particular, I'd say, we shouldn't want to pay too much out of our future.

For that reason, if there's a deal that doesn't cost us Deni & doesn't cost us a R1 pick, I'd be all over it. Otherwise, I'm having a hard time getting behind the acquisition of Sabonis.

[badinage]

Sure, give up Deni.

The way we gave up Sheed.

The way we gave up Ben Wah-lace.

The way we gave up Webber.

The way we gave up Rip.

The way we gave up Ruland.

Over and over and over and over.

This way lies futility. Giving up your own. Giving up youth and promise. Lusting after the veteran molded elsewhere.

[80sballboy]

We definitely need size, rebounding ability, passing, and scoring. Other than quality defense, that's what Sabonis bring you. Not sure I'd trade Deni, but everyone else aside from Beal would be available along with a first, which would be middling.

[80sballboy]

Sure, give up Deni.

The way we gave up Sheed.

The way we gave up Ben Wah-lace.

The way we gave up Webber.

The way we gave up Rip.

The way we gave up Ruland.

Over and over and over and over.

This way lies futility. Giving up your own. Giving up youth and promise. Lusting after the veteran molded elsewhere.

Ah, bad memories. Ruland was hurt and we got Moses Malone, even if he was aging. Jeff was never the same player that he was with the Bullets due to shoulder and knee issues. Sabonis is 25 so he's not some retread. Agree with all the rest. I think the owners sometimes interfere as Abe did with the Webber deal. Ted did with getting rid of Wall. Getting Strickland for Wallace. An aging Mitch Ritchmond for Webber. Ben Wall for Ike Austin. Terrible.

[Ruzious]

Sure, give up Deni.

The way we gave up Sheed.

The way we gave up Ben Wah-lace.

The way we gave up Webber.

The way we gave up Rip.

The way we gave up Ruland.

Over and over and over and over.

This way lies futility. Giving up your own. Giving up youth and promise. Lusting after the veteran molded elsewhere.

In which of those trades did we acquire a 25 year old 2-time all-star. That's not giving up on a player; that's making a trade for an all-star who hasn't reached his peak years.

And it just might be a tad unrealistic to compare Deni to a young Chris Webber, Jeff Ruland, or either of the Wallaces. The way we waited too long to trade Juwan Howard, should have kept Vesely, Blatche, Seraphin, Young, Jeffries, etc, etc.

Jeebus, I wasn't even really advocating for this trade, and I get dragged into a conversation like this.

[nate33]

Sure, give up Deni.

The way we gave up Sheed.

The way we gave up Ben Wah-lace.

The way we gave up Webber.

The way we gave up Rip.

The way we gave up Ruland.

Over and over and over and over.

This way lies futility. Giving up your own. Giving up youth and promise. Lusting after the veteran molded elsewhere.

In which of those trades did we acquire a 25 year old 2-time all-star. That's not giving up on a player; that's making a trade for an all-star who hasn't reached his peak years.

And it just might be a tad unrealistic to compare Deni to a young Chris Webber, Jeff Ruland, or either of the Wallaces. The way we waited too long to trade Juwan Howard, should have kept Vesely, Blatche, Seraphin, Young, Jeffries, etc, etc.

Jeebus, I wasn't even really advocating for this trade, and I get dragged into a conversation like this.

This could just as easily be seen as giving up Kwame for Butler. Or Gugliotta for Webber. Or Troy Brown for Gafford.

I'm not saying that it is, but let's dial back the hyperbole a bit. Avdija looks like a nice player, but it's far too soon to conclude he's an All-Star caliber player. And, as Ruzious points out, Sabonis is a young All-Star. There is very little bust potential in his acquisition. At worst, he's an empty stats All-Star in the Carmelo Anthony/Antawn Jamison mold, but it's not like he is going to suck.

All that said, I'd lean against the deal. I'm not particularly interested in Sabonis.

[tontoz]

I like Sabonis but wouldn't give up Deni to get him.

[tontoz]

Sabonis ranked 7th in DRPM among 4s last year. Having a strong season with 18/12 and a 64% TS. If we got him we wouldn't have to spend $10 mil on a backup C this summer.

Kuz/Rui + a 1st is doable. I would assume Indy wants cap flexibility and picks. They don't really have a path to being a contender without major changes.

[Ruzious]

Sabonis just had a 32 point triple double with 10/14 shooting against the East's top team. Indiana can get a whole lot for him.

[Dark Faze]

I don't have an issue with Sabonis, but I do have a problem with the way this team would be constructed as is:

Dinwiddie
Beal
??? (depending on who is moved)
Sabonis
Gafford

That is...such a horrific all around fit for everyone involved. Absolute dreck shooting, the paint stuffed beyond all reason...I'm not saying you can't go after Sabonis, but you would need to get more creative about the way this team is being put together.

[Ruzious]

I don't have an issue with Sabonis, but I do have a problem with the way this team would be constructed as is:

Dinwiddie
Beal
??? (depending on who is moved)
Sabonis
Gafford

That is...such a horrific all around fit for everyone involved. Absolute dreck shooting, the paint stuffed beyond all reason...I'm not saying you can't go after Sabonis, but you would need to get more creative about the way this team is being put together.

You mean like what we have now? Do you consider Deni a quality shooter?

[gambitx777]

I don't have an issue with Sabonis, but I do have a problem with the way this team would be constructed as is:

Dinwiddie
Beal
??? (depending on who is moved)
Sabonis
Gafford

That is...such a horrific all around fit for everyone involved. Absolute dreck shooting, the paint stuffed beyond all reason...I'm not saying you can't go after Sabonis, but you would need to get more creative about the way this team is being put together.

You mean like what we have now? Do you consider Deni a quality shooter?

Neither is D.S. at least deni plays D.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Ruzious]

I don't have an issue with Sabonis, but I do have a problem with the way this team would be constructed as is:

Dinwiddie
Beal
??? (depending on who is moved)
Sabonis
Gafford

That is...such a horrific all around fit for everyone involved. Absolute dreck shooting, the paint stuffed beyond all reason...I'm not saying you can't go after Sabonis, but you would need to get more creative about the way this team is being put together.

You mean like what we have now? Do you consider Deni a quality shooter?

Neither is D.S. at least deni plays D.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Sabonis isn't a quality 3 point shooter, but he clearly is a good overall shooter. Depending on what defensive stats you use, Sabonis is a fine defender. He has a slightly better DRtg - not to mention having an enormous advantage in ORtg. If we're not being homers, Sabonis is so dramatically better than Avdija, it's laughable to compare them - even with the age difference of less than 5 years.

[pcbothwel]

I dont see how we win more than 5-6 games out of the next 15, putting us 11th in the east and ~1 game out of the play in. We then have 2 Off days leading up to the trade deadline.

[Frichuela]

I dont see how we win more than 5-6 games out of the next 15, putting us 11th in the east and ~1 game out of the play in. We then have 2 Off days leading up to the trade deadline.

If that’s the case, with more reason to contemplate trading Beal. Tommy needs to get involved in any Simmons trade discussions. Either we get Simmons straight or we end up receiving young players and picks from a 3rd party (e.g. Haliburton, Maxey, Fodder + picks).


But as we know Terd is gonna Terd…

[Frichuela]

Playing with the trade machine, I came out with another iteration of a PHI-SAC-WAS trade by including IND. The bottom line is that we trade Beal, Neto and Gill for Haliburton, Mitchell, Sabonis and SAC 2022 1st. Simmons (+Neto and Gill) goes to SAC, Beal to Philly and Barnes + PHI 2022 1st to IND.

This would need another follow-up trade to get rid of a center (e.g. Harrell to CHA for NOP 2022 1st lottery protected).

Our roster would be like:

Dinwiddie/Mitchell
Haliburton/KCP/Holiday
Deni/Kispert/Bertans
Kuzma/Rui/Todd
Sabonis/Gafford/Bryant

With the addition of SAC 2022 1st and NOP 2022 1st lottery protected (otherwise 2 seconds).

I think is possible this hypothetical roster would be better than our current team…and that is without taking to account the promise of Haliburton + Mitchell plus the additional picks.