Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[gambitx777]

?? You really think Philly will give us Noel, Covington and a R1 pick in the coming draft -- all that for Beal and the rights to Satoransky (note: that's pretty different from Satoransky himself, were he under contract)? Make it happen!

OTOH, *why* pray tell do the Nets want the 2d of your suggested trades? And, do you really want to give away a R1 pick to rent Ryan Anderson for 38 games? First thing, when you're in a hole, is stop digging.

Number one yes I do, they have 3 picks and that one would be 28, they need starters, draft picks don't help them right now, Beal will be over paid, but they could over pay him 2 times over and still have cap room for max guys, They are not getting max caliber guys to sign there. beal makes sense for them, yes its a high price and we can live without the pick, which I said only if we can talk them into it. Brooklyn does this trade because it saves them money, and at this point, why not save some money? It makes a lot of sense for them to move that, and save that tax money and the salary in general. As for anderson, we no longer would have beals cap hold, we resign anderson or get him to extend with us for around 11 mill or so then we are no worse off than we were before the trade and we only have a little less cap room than we would have had, still plenty of room to bring in guys and build a team. not only that but if we do all this and it all works out what are we out, sure it suck if anderson leaves, but we would still have noel and covington and a hell of cap room with otto kelly wall and gortat to build around, Plus we make a play off run and we prove that we are creative and committed to winning and that is important on the free agent market.

That's a good point that Philly might be a good destination for Beal - because they're going to be ridiculously far below the cap. There is a cap minimum as well as a cap max. Granted, there are other ways of getting to the cap minimum

There is, but if some other team offers him the max they match and he is theirs or they offer him the max and he takes it right away, they have a caliber guard that they would not other wise have the opportunity to sign. Yeah sure they could do this with other players around the league true but beal does make sense for them.

[gambitx777]

The fat lady is warming up and hitting the high notes. We should be sellers looking for youth. Any of Temple, Neal, Anderson, Beal, Dudley, Nene, Humprhies, Blair, Gooden for young players or picks. No price too low.

You'd be lucky to get some second rounders for most of those guys. Trading Beal when he's finally taking some strides would be a mistake unless we can get a young guy with all-star potential.

Mailing it all in for a complete rebuild though? God no. Ask the Lakers how these last two drafts have gone for them.

I would be in favor of a soft reboot. Trading beal and thomas to the 76ers for Noel, covington and a later first would make a lot of sense.
NENE and Dudley for David Lee and R.J. Hunter makes a lot of sense if we move beal.

If we are willing to trade away gortat, maybe to the jazz, Gortat and proter with an unprotected first for hayward and withey. They could use a vet big on a reasonable deal to anchor that young front court rotation of theirs. I would probably do beal and porter + filler and a pick for Hayward and withey too!I would be all in for hayward right now, Wall needs that go to guy, he needs a go to guy to carry the load when hes not on his game.

[Dark Faze]

Thing about Otto is that he hasn't been that good even against SF's this year defensively. It's mainly just that first step..he just bounces off of guys when they decide to drive. He's got good hands and can cover the passing lanes--but again, PF, SF, his size is a real barrier right now for him at any position other than maybe the 2.

[payitforward]

I can't stand this set of ideas. First off, Porter has tons of development in him and is already quite good. I wouldn't trade him straight up for Gallinari -- which is not to criticize Gallinari, just to recognize that he's peaked and passed his peak. I certainly wouldn't give a R1 pick too! We need to get younger not older.

Horford has 18,000 NBA minutes on his body. He's had a terrific career. He'll get a sizable and long-term contract. This is not the time in his career when you invest in a guy like Horford.

I keep wondering what these proposals mean to accomplish? Put names in a row that sound like something? Are we going to challenge for a title in the next 2 years by adding e.g. Gallinari/Horford? No. Meanwhile we'd throw away our chance to build a team that *can* challenge for a title.

I respect this post and understand the logic--my concern with Porter is that if he can't play the 4, then I don't know if he has a play in our rotation as a starter. Wall isn't a consistent 3 guy, and neither is Porter at this point. You're talking about a rotation where two of your perimeter players can't hit a three. That's a miserable core to start with.

Danilo is in his prime right now--and he gets to the line at EIGHT TIMES A GAME in combination with being a guy who can hit the three. He's exactly the kind of guy we could use next to Wall.

Semi agreed on Horford. I'm not nuts about giving him a max deal.

I'm completely against the idea of just building through the draft and relying on our young guys though. Blink and the next thing you know Wall is a year away from free agency and you've found out too late that the Porter/Beal/Wall core is Arenas/Butler/Jamison all over again.

Ok, if you like, DG is in his prime (rather than, as I claimed, having peaked and now beginning his descent). My problem w/ this kind of trade remains the same.

I don't want to have "a better team." I want to have a team that contends for a title. At the very least, I want to have a FO that *tries to* build that kind of team. No other perspective captures my interest.

You are certainly correct that you can't get that kind of team "just building through the draft." But, unless you are one of the 2-3 biggest markets nationwide, you can't get it *unless* the foundation of the team is built that way. Nor, by the way, is this about having the *maximum number* of picks. Or about tanking to get *higher picks.*

What better example than the Golden State Warriors? In the last 7 drafts, they've had a total of 10 picks. One was a #55 pick. Another a #41 they traded away (I don't know for what). A third is a Euro they picked #30 and have stashed. A 4th was a mistake (Udoh in '10). The other 6 are the core 4 players on their team, plus a solid backup Center and a raw rookie. Leaving out the #55 guy, that's a hit ratio of 6 out of 10. Really you should call it a home run ratio, since the list includes some of the best players in the league. Btw, that history goes through I think 3 different FOs!

In those same drafts, our one FO has had 18 picks. And in every single one of those drafts, we've had a higher pick than the Warriors. We've also had a #55 pick to leave out. What's our hit ratio? 4 out of 17. Quite a difference. And, if you look closer it's worse not better.

Trades and FA acquisitions are what you use to build on top of the core you bring in via the draft. Again, see the Warriors. Sometimes that involves trading a R1 pick, as they did for Iguodala (also dumping a lot of useless salary). You can do that when you have already got a great young team and you're trying to fill out w/ e.g. a great 6th man.

Key point? We're about to have to rebuild again from scratch.

[Dark Faze]

You're being too negative. This team still has pieces that, if successfully added upon, can get to the finals. Beating the Warriors--that's something almost no team can do right now, but this team has the potential to be an NBA finals team with the right moves.

Gallo would be one. The second move needed would be a strong PF option. I pointed to Horford as a potential option, and Pau Gasol as well.

From there, you need a very strong bench unit.

In all honesty the Cavs are not that great. Very beatable. We can't build a team that would beat GS--almost nobody can, but we can get to the finals. That's the point of ignoring a rebuild.

[gambitx777]

I agree with Faze on this one, a full out rebuild would waste johns prime years, just like we pretty much did with this year. There are moves out there to make the team better, younger, but the front office has to have the balls to make those moves. The goal is to win the east, then hope for the best in the finals. That's the goal.

[dckingsfan]

The fat lady is warming up and hitting the high notes. We should be sellers looking for youth. Any of Temple, Neal, Anderson, Beal, Dudley, Nene, Humprhies, Blair, Gooden for young players or picks. No price too low.

You'd be lucky to get some second rounders for most of those guys. Trading Beal when he's finally taking some strides would be a mistake unless we can get a young guy with all-star potential.

Mailing it all in for a complete rebuild though? God no. Ask the Lakers how these last two drafts have gone for them.

I would be in favor of a soft reboot. Trading beal and thomas to the 76ers for Noel, covington and a later first would make a lot of sense. NENE and Dudley for David Lee and R.J. Hunter makes a lot of sense if we move beal.

If we are willing to trade away gortat, maybe to the jazz, Gortat and proter with an unprotected first for hayward and withey. They could use a vet big on a reasonable deal to anchor that young front court rotation of theirs. I would probably do beal and porter + filler and a pick for Hayward and withey too!I would be all in for hayward right now, Wall needs that go to guy, he needs a go to guy to carry the load when hes not on his game.

Agreed - It should be considered a soft reboot - not a complete rebuild. And Beal hasn't really made strides, IMO. I think you want to offload him and not pay the max. Anything better than nothing?

[payitforward]

Number one yes I do, they have 3 picks and that one would be 28, they need starters, draft picks don't help them right now, Beal will be over paid, but they could over pay him 2 times over and still have cap room for max guys, They are not getting max caliber guys to sign there. beal makes sense for them, yes its a high price and we can live without the pick, which I said only if we can talk them into it. Brooklyn does this trade because it saves them money, and at this point, why not save some money? It makes a lot of sense for them to move that, and save that tax money and the salary in general. As for anderson, we no longer would have beals cap hold, we resign anderson or get him to extend with us for around 11 mill or so then we are no worse off than we were before the trade and we only have a little less cap room than we would have had, still plenty of room to bring in guys and build a team. not only that but if we do all this and it all works out what are we out, sure it suck if anderson leaves, but we would still have noel and covington and a hell of cap room with otto kelly wall and gortat to build around, Plus we make a play off run and we prove that we are creative and committed to winning and that is important on the free agent market.

That's a good point that Philly might be a good destination for Beal - because they're going to be ridiculously far below the cap. There is a cap minimum as well as a cap max. Granted, there are other ways of getting to the cap minimum

There is, but if some other team offers him the max they match and he is theirs or they offer him the max and he takes it right away, they have a caliber guard that they would not other wise have the opportunity to sign. Yeah sure they could do this with other players around the league true but beal does make sense for them.

The question isn't whether they'll be willing to trade the #28 pick in this year's coming draft. Sure they would. The question is whether they'd give it as part of the trade for Beal you suggested. Different question.

Moreover "they need starters" doesn't seem all that relevant either, since you've got them giving up Noel and Covington in the deal -- both starters! Not to say I don't like the deal, man! I love it, but they aren't going to do it.

How does the Brooklyn trade save them money? You proposed a trade of expiring salaries for expiring salaries. What did I miss?

[payitforward]

NENE and Dudley for David Lee and R.J. Hunter makes a lot of sense if we move beal.

Why in the world would Boston make that deal, Gambit? They acquire two expiring salaries for one expiring salary and the rookie they just drafted in R1. Where is there any upside at all to Boston in that deal?

[payitforward]

You're being too negative. This team still has pieces that, if successfully added upon, can get to the finals...

Wow.... If you believe that, then sure. But, what team in the East doesn't have "pieces" like that? It's how many do you have, and what else do you have that you can make trades with. We don't have as good a team as it seems you think we do. That's why we're 21-26 right now.

[TheSecretWeapon]

I haven't come up with a good name for it, but I ran a metric I've been playing with get at value of assets on the roster. Basically, it combines production and age -- highly productive young players being more valuable than a similarly productive old player (because the youngster has more of a future. The Wizards ranked 19th overall, and 9th in the East.

[Dark Faze]

You're being too negative. This team still has pieces that, if successfully added upon, can get to the finals...

Wow.... If you believe that, then sure. But, what team in the East doesn't have "pieces" like that? It's how many do you have, and what else do you have that you can make trades with. We don't have as good a team as it seems you think we do. That's why we're 21-26 right now.

Probably because I don't take this year that seriously. Ernie brought in two guys who literally walked into training camp injured--one who hasn't even played yet, Nene wouldn't even be on the roster sans injury and that's 13 million that could be used for a borderline all-star tiered player. Completely changed the offense and it's a failure. Far and away the most injured team in the NBA and it's not close.

So you're talking about a team that purposefully doesn't try to get better, is the most injured team in the league, and a bunch of other teams made moves to improve and you're going to act like the sky is falling despite two post season runs where we competed with two good teams in the 2nd round the last two years?

*shrugs*

LeBron is only getting older. Nobody but GSW is chipping right now, but this fanbase would be supremely happy with more playoff runs, victories, and a potential NBA finals berth. Tearing it all down because of this throwaway year? Come on.

[thricethefun]

I would like to trade Gortat at the trade deadline. If we could get a guy like Brook Lopez or Greg Monroe that's clearly an upgrade and that wouldn't kill KD2DC i'd be all for it. Even if it means throwing in our 1st rounder. Yes I know those guys aren't rim protectors but you can't play much worse defense than Gortat has been playing and they are clearly an upgrade on offense.

[TGW]

Monroe may be available according to a local Milwaukee reporter. I would trade Gortat for him just based off youth. However, Greg is not a rim defender and is defensively a step slow, so you would lose on that side of the court. However, he's a better rebounder and inside scorer than Gortat, and he's 6 years younger.

It wouldn't be an ideal exchange but it would be an upgrade.

[queridiculo]

I haven't come up with a good name for it, but I ran a metric I've been playing with get at value of assets on the roster. Basically, it combines production and age -- highly productive young players being more valuable than a similarly productive old player (because the youngster has more of a future. The Wizards ranked 19th overall, and 9th in the East.

Would be interesting to see those numbers adjusted for salary to establish opportunity cost.

[queridiculo]

Monroe may be available according to a local Milwaukee reporter. I would trade Gortat for him just based off youth. However, Greg is not a rim defender and is defensively a step slow, so you would lose on that side of the court. However, he's a better rebounder and inside scorer than Gortat, and he's 6 years younger.

It wouldn't be an ideal exchange but it would be an upgrade.

Not in a million years would I make that deal, Monroe is a basketball Frankenstein. The skills and attributes he has don't fit together and aren't conducive to winning.

[TheSecretWeapon]

I haven't come up with a good name for it, but I ran a metric I've been playing with get at value of assets on the roster. Basically, it combines production and age -- highly productive young players being more valuable than a similarly productive old player (because the youngster has more of a future. The Wizards ranked 19th overall, and 9th in the East.

Would be interesting to see those numbers adjusted for salary to establish opportunity cost.

I have a good idea how to do it. Unfortunately, I don't have much time for the data entry.

[AFM]

Someone get this guy an intern.

[80sballboy]

Greg Monroe would be fine offensively, but he's horrible defensively. He's making $50 M for 3 years or I guess 2 1/2 more years. I would say pass unless you can find a dominant post defender to play with him.

[deneem4]

What do you guys think????
How much cap space would we have for the summer??

Pistons recieve: ryan anderson, nene, Neal
Pistons trade: morris, ersan

Why?
The most coveted ryan anderson...nene to backup drummond...Neal until Meeks healthy
They make a big playoff push...can resign Anderson and bring in more help with the extra cap space....can still move Jennings for Thad as well

Pelicans trade: ryan anderson, douglas, asik, perkins
Pelicans receive: ersan, Gotat, blake, pick swap wiz

Why?
Swap asik horrid contract for a useful center, gets an anderson replace in ersan who can also play sf and a little defense...still has gordon as trade chip

Wizards trade: gortat, nene, Neal, 2016 1st, 2017 2nd
Wizards receive: morris, morris, douglas, perkins, asik

Why?
Gets the versatile twins back together for less than gortat...takes on asik contract but he can be useful in matchups, also get toney douglas for cheap and perkins for locker room leadership...still have a kd to DC chance or cap space and youth if he don't come

Suns trade: morris
Suns recieve: wiz 1st unprotected and 2017 2nd and Jodie Meeks
Gets a 1st and a 2nd....and Jodie Meeks for next year
Still have tucker and tetolvic to trade and get more assets

Who says no???
Tucker, jennings, dudley, teletovic, can all be included some where if the value isn't right