Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[Meliorus]

Exactly....

Our core is 6 deep
Wall/beal/porter/morris/oubre/sato (I include morris cause he's cheap and his defense is valuable)

Gortat should be able to net us some legit bench guys...
All we missing is a scoring guard and a scoring big...
We should be ablessed to land those without moving any of those 6 guys

Everyone wants to do some weird full rebuild but it doesn't work.

Having a mentality of building for the future is an infinite loop.
Be bad --> Draft player --> player becomes all-star --> team goes to playoffs multiple times --> team struggling --> trade away all-star

Better off executing small trades to get marginally better, because this team ISN'T far away from being a good team. Losing by 2 in San Antonio shows that. The only problem with this team is a piss-poor bench, and that's not too hard to fix.

It's not hard to fix but we are attached to looking for starters rather than building around our young guys...
Gortat dont mesh with wall and beal....period on a bringing the best out of them mindset
Wall needs floor spacing the more paint space he has to operate the better he plays....
Same with Beal...he's not the best attacker but he's clever with his moves it doesn't help him if u have a big who's attached to the paint...
Gortat can't operate with the ball other than driving to the rim for a score...don't get me wrong it's alot of other bigs like that but they are elite in other areas...

Same with Morris he can work in the iso but there's always a help defender down low because gortat stays in the paint...

It's a reason there's not a lot of bigs like gortat in the league...there's no need for them in tokays nba...

We need to trade him or mahnimi....gets a big who can
1..shoot the 3
2..protect the rim
OR 3...have elite athleticism to maximize our athleticism especially on fastbreaks...

We are still behind in becoming a modern nba team and we have the personal in all starting positions but the center postion...

Our bench sucks because we tried to replicate our starters
Any fan can see that
Wall/sato = athletic non shooting point with good vision
Beal/thronton = 3 pt gunner
Porter/oubre = long energy slashing forward
Morris/Nicholson = iso pf with 3pt range
Gortat/Smith = pnr big with limited range but (fake) tough around the rim

Teams gameplan for our starters but they're too talented
..when it comes to our bench they play the same and they are stopped very easy....

We need to bring in some versatility...that's the difference between us and every other good team in the league period

Most insightful thing I've seen in awhile. Thanks for posting this.

[PerkinsFor3]

Why does everyone want to mess with the Wizard's starting 5 when they're ranked very high in the NBA as an unit.

Why not just upgrade the bench? The only starter we should trade is Gortat since he's old.

Exactly....

Our core is 6 deep
Wall/beal/porter/morris/oubre/sato (I include morris cause he's cheap and his defense is valuable)

Gortat should be able to net us some legit bench guys...
All we missing is a scoring guard and a scoring big...
We should be ablessed to land those without moving any of those 6 guys

Everyone wants to do some weird full rebuild but it doesn't work.

Having a mentality of building for the future is an infinite loop.
Be bad --> Draft player --> player becomes all-star --> team goes to playoffs multiple times --> team struggling --> trade away all-star

Better off executing small trades to get marginally better, because this team ISN'T far away from being a good team. Losing by 2 in San Antonio shows that. The only problems with this team are a piss-poor bench and an aging center. Not terribly hard to fix.

Orlando won by 12 in San Antonio. Theyre preeeeetty far away from being a good team.

[deneem4]

Exactly....

Our core is 6 deep
Wall/beal/porter/morris/oubre/sato (I include morris cause he's cheap and his defense is valuable)

Gortat should be able to net us some legit bench guys...
All we missing is a scoring guard and a scoring big...
We should be ablessed to land those without moving any of those 6 guys

Everyone wants to do some weird full rebuild but it doesn't work.

Having a mentality of building for the future is an infinite loop.
Be bad --> Draft player --> player becomes all-star --> team goes to playoffs multiple times --> team struggling --> trade away all-star

Better off executing small trades to get marginally better, because this team ISN'T far away from being a good team. Losing by 2 in San Antonio shows that. The only problems with this team are a piss-poor bench and an aging center. Not terribly hard to fix.

Orlando won by 12 in San Antonio. Theyre preeeeetty far away from being a good team.

But they have one of the best big rotations in the league...
They can mismatch alot of teams...
Ibaka a legit 3&d power forward
Biyombo strong rebounder
Vucevic all around offensive big
Gordon athletic powerforward

(If they get they're wing rotation right They can be a dominant team but Aaron Gordon isn't the answer)

Back to the spurs....
Look at the teams they lost to this year
Utah/lac/hou/Orl

those are all teams with elite bigs With the exception of Houston(and nene played the most center minutes)

[deneem4]

Why I'm hating on gortat???

Lil state checking small sample sizes but something to watch

We are 4-0 when gortat gets last than 9 rebounds this season
We were 6-1 last season when he didn't play....

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why I'm hating on gortat???

Lil state checking small sample sizes but something to watch

We are 4-0 when gortat gets last than 9 rebounds this season
We were 6-1 last season when he didn't play....

Last year Nene played when Gortat didn't play.



Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

[Dark Faze]

its heartbreaking seeing how much Ernie has failed us

[BealsLegs]

gortat playing a career high minutes is bound to fail, he goes down and its a smith/nicholson center rotation

ernie better start churning up the trade machine

[pcbothwel]

its heartbreaking seeing how much Ernie has failed us

It is, but if there is any way to have a positive outlook/future and still have EG get fired, its having Revenue go down and having EG's FA acquisitions fail while still having our young core improve.

[krii]

It's fascinating to see how many people wants to just get rid of Gortat. Yes, get rid of rather than think of improving other things in this team. It seems that HE is the problem of current Wizards. I do understand that some of you guys are looking for another Shaq/Yao type to join the team and make it watchable. It just makes me laugh when reading that swapping Gortat for someone like WCS is going to make Wizards contenders. I mean ... seriously?

With the lowest usage ever (the last time MG had <14%USG was in 2009 in ORL), Marcin is still averaging 12/12/1.6/1.2 on the highest efficiency in his career (yeah - all of those 'soft bunnies' are efficient to the point that they give you more point than failed dunk attempts. such a stupid rule / #greenfont). Yeah, but he is declining defensively. Sure, I can see some indicators that could lead to such a statement but some of you are severely overreacting. His defensive rating is a bit higher but this is because of two things mainly:
1/ 35mpg (!!) is about 5mpg higher than he should have. Gortat is very efficient player who should be utilized in a good way but with massive minutes he is not able to provide super-high defensive numbers - he seems to be a bit tired at times.
2/ this team has sucked most of this season. He could stand out and become one-man army that takes over each and every game but he wouldn't play for Wizards in such a scenario. He would probably be a second coming of Arvydas Sabonis, Ilgauskas or Divac in their best seasons.

He missed a total of like 7-8 games in his last 4 seasons, whilst most of the bigs in the game have problems to NOT miss 6 games a year. He is constantly producing double-double and, even if some posters here and on Bullets Forever are calling him #whorestat because of his 'empty stats', this is basically what is important. I know, WCS or other young bigs are potentially having higher ceiling at this point but is it really MG that Wizards need to get rid of or Wizards' bench that needs solid improvement?

Last time I checked Washington had one of the best starters in the league. Sure, let's trade one of two most efficient assets on one of the best contracts for late-first rounders. They'll make Wizards contender and produce AT LEAST the same numbers as Gortat.

[Dat2U]

It's fascinating to see how many people wants to just get rid of Gortat. Yes, get rid of rather than think of improving other things in this team. It seems that HE is the problem of current Wizards. I do understand that some of you guys are looking for another Shaq/Yao type to join the team and make it watchable. It just makes me laugh when reading that swapping Gortat for someone like WCS is going to make Wizards contenders. I mean ... seriously?

With the lowest usage ever (the last time MG had <14%USG was in 2009 in ORL), Marcin is still averaging 12/12/1.6/1.2 on the highest efficiency in his career (yeah - all of those 'soft bunnies' are efficient to the point that they give you more point than failed dunk attempts. such a stupid rule / #greenfont). Yeah, but he is declining defensively. Sure, I can see some indicators that could lead to such a statement but some of you are severely overreacting. His defensive rating is a bit higher but this is because of two things mainly:
1/ 35mpg (!!) is about 5mpg higher than he should have. Gortat is very efficient player who should be utilized in a good way but with massive minutes he is not able to provide super-high defensive numbers - he seems to be a bit tired at times.
2/ this team has sucked most of this season. He could stand out and become one-man army that takes over each and every game but he wouldn't play for Wizards in such a scenario. He would probably be a second coming of Arvydas Sabonis, Ilgauskas or Divac in their best seasons.

He missed a total of like 7-8 games in his last 4 seasons, whilst most of the bigs in the game have problems to NOT miss 6 games a year. He is constantly producing double-double and, even if some posters here and on Bullets Forever are calling him #whorestat because of his 'empty stats', this is basically what is important. I know, WCS or other young bigs are potentially having higher ceiling at this point but is it really MG that Wizards need to get rid of or Wizards' bench that needs solid improvement?

Last time I checked Washington had one of the best starters in the league. Sure, let's trade one of two most efficient assets on one of the best contracts for late-first rounders. They'll make Wizards contender and produce AT LEAST the same numbers as Gortat.

I agree. Gortat is literally the only respectable big man we have at the moment. He's not an-all star but for the most point he's been rock solid.

If one suggests we need an upgrade in the starting lineup I'd recommend that they look at the PF position.

[AFM]

We need Cousins!!!!!!!

The phrase "what do you have to lose" comes to mind. I use that phrase a lot around last call.

[deneem4]

We can't Improve our bench without sacrificing one of our starters...
It's between gortat and morris...and because we have mahinmi and no other playable pf...gortat the one that has to go...
Wcs game is a potential perfect fit...
Can run the floor and is a quick moving defender...he also doesn't play soft which is Gortat biggest problem

[payitforward]

All this anti-Gortat stuff seems pretty ridiculous to me. He's a very very good player, one of the better Centers in the league, he's been very sturdy, and he's on a contract that's good value. I think WC-S is a very good prospect, but the idea that he'd replace Gortat is plain foolish. As to "play soft", that' phrase means nothing in my book.

Moreover, trading Gortat to "improve our bench" won't make us a better team. Ernie has done big-time damage to this team and its future, and there isn't some sleight of hand trick that will fix it.

[nate33]

We can't Improve our bench without sacrificing one of our starters...
It's between gortat and morris...and because we have mahinmi and no other playable pf...gortat the one that has to go...
Wcs game is a potential perfect fit...
Can run the floor and is a quick moving defender...he also doesn't play soft which is Gortat biggest problem

Never trade quality for quantity. You don't trade starters for bench players.

The only logic for trading Gortat is that he's 6 years older than three core players on the roster. You trade Gortat if you're looking to reload for a window of opportunity 2-3 years down the road. You don't trade him for win-now bench depth.

[stevemcqueen1]

As my creepy Amish friend used to say, cousins make dozens.

[deneem4]

All this anti-Gortat stuff seems pretty ridiculous to me. He's a very very good player, one of the better Centers in the league, he's been very sturdy, and he's on a contract that's good value. I think WC-S is a very good prospect, but the idea that he'd replace Gortat is plain foolish. As to "play soft", that' phrase means nothing in my book.

Moreover, trading Gortat to "improve our bench" won't make us a better team. Ernie has done big-time damage to this team and its future, and there isn't some sleight of hand trick that will fix it.

But does he fit with the style of play of our center pieces???

That's the simple question when it comes to trading a good player...is the fit as valuable as the result??

Have you ever seen wall play with an athletic mobile center??
Have you even seen Beal play with a stretch 5?...
Jus because it's risky don't make it wrong...curry wouldn't be curry if David lee would have never gotten injured...why? They relied on David lee post game...but turns out they were better without it and he was still one of the better players in the lesgue...
Not comparing us to golden state at all but just using a well known example of how fit is important...Beal deserves more shots so does porter so...let's move away from the getting gortat looks to a more modern offense...we have the pieces to play chess but we're still in a checkers mindset...

[nate33]

Why I'm hating on gortat???

Lil state checking small sample sizes but something to watch

We are 4-0 when gortat gets last than 9 rebounds this season
We were 6-1 last season when he didn't play....

Last year Nene played when Gortat didn't play.



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Exactly. And Nene was actually really good last year when he played. He had his highest PER, WS/48 and TS% as a Wizard. His problem was health, not production.

[nate33]

But does he fit with the style of play of our center pieces???

That's the simple question when it comes to trading a good player...is the fit as valuable as the result??

Have you ever seen wall play with an athletic mobile center??
Have you even seen Beal play with a stretch 5?...
Jus because it's risky don't make it wrong...curry wouldn't be curry if David lee would have never gotten injured...why? They relied on David lee post game...but turns out they were better without it and he was still one of the better players in the lesgue...
Not comparing us to golden state at all but just using a well known example of how fit is important...Beal deserves more shots so does porter so...let's move away from the getting gortat looks to a more modern offense...we have the pieces to play chess but we're still in a checkers mindset...

Beal has a USG% of 26.2, which is a career high. He's getting plenty of shots. Gortat remains a more efficient scorer than anyone else on the team except Porter. If anyone needs more shots it's Gortat.

I accept your premise that Gortat may not be a perfect fit style-wise for a team with Wall, Beal and Porter. But you need to have a plan to acquire that ideal center before you jettison Gortat. Teams don't give away Horford/Ibaka types very often.

[nate33]

Our bench sucks because we tried to replicate our starters
Any fan can see that
Wall/sato = athletic non shooting point with good vision
Beal/thronton = 3 pt gunner
Porter/oubre = long energy slashing forward
Morris/Nicholson = iso pf with 3pt range
Gortat/Smith = pnr big with limited range but (fake) tough around the rim.

Our bench sucks because our bench sucks. There's no talent there. There are no shot creators and no defensive mistake-erasers.

The biggest thing our bench needs is a scoring PG who can take the pressure off youngsters like Oubre, Sato and McClellen so they can just try and blend in. The bench would be a whole lot better if we spent the money devoted to Smith and Burke on Sessions instead; and if Mahinmi was healthy. This would be a pretty solid bench:

PG Sessions
SG McClellan/Sato
SF Oubre
PF Nicholson
C Mahinmi

[deneem4]

Our bench sucks because we tried to replicate our starters
Any fan can see that
Wall/sato = athletic non shooting point with good vision
Beal/thronton = 3 pt gunner
Porter/oubre = long energy slashing forward
Morris/Nicholson = iso pf with 3pt range
Gortat/Smith = pnr big with limited range but (fake) tough around the rim.

Our bench sucks because our bench sucks. There's no talent there. There are no shot creators and no defensive mistake-erasers.

The biggest thing our bench needs is a scoring PG who can take the pressure off youngsters like Oubre, Sato and McClellen so they can just try and blend in. The bench would be a whole lot better if we spent the money devoted to Smith and Burke on Sessions instead; and if Mahinmi was healthy. This would be a pretty solid bench:

PG Sessions
SG McClellan/Sato
SF Oubre
PF Nicholson
C Mahinmi

I rather think it's the opposite we need a scoring big that can abuse other bench bigs...Zach Randolph would be perfect
Sato/thronton/oubre/Randolph/mahinmi would be a better bench