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2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#861 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 21, 2025 12:44 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Queen is a top 5 pick. None of the guards has a standing reach better than 8'8. They won't last long in the league.
Just be another check mark on long list of mistakes that gets hyped up by consensus draft guru when standing reach would easily tell you they were no perennial all stars yet drafted top 10. Cooper flagg is basically Cody Zeller and every draft expert is screaming generational talent and top GMs are laughing inside.
Butch of Giannis level guys here. Queen is basically Charles Barkley and this board is pushing out to 18 like sheep. Steven Adams still in league.

I love reading your posts, but I wonder how well this one will hold up over time....

Looks like you're saying that Harper, Fears, Edgecombe & Johnson "won't last long in the league." Is that right?

"Cooper Flagg is basically Cody Zeller" -- makes me think I must be misremembering Cody Zeller! :)

Who are the "Giannis level guys here"?

It would be great if Queen played at the level of Charles Barkley -- I hope he does!
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#862 » by AFM » Sat Jun 21, 2025 1:28 pm

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#863 » by nate33 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 1:33 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Kon>VJ+taking on Paul George’s contract.

Kon might be a better prospect than VJ in general.

NC guys have him ranked 5th. Vecenie has him 3rd.


Kon may be the safer pick but VJ has a considerably higher ceiling. If we needed a filler around our stars, maybe. But we need the star. That said, Paul George puts us back into Wall, Beal territory with one of the worst deals in the league hanging around our necks.

Paul George's deal isn't really that much of a burden because we won't need to pay any of our young guys until his contract is up anyhow.

I also think we could swap him for Beal and thereby save a year off that deal. (We would cut Beal.)
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#864 » by nate33 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 1:55 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
PaulinVA wrote:Adridge did his update on the center prospects today:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6435925/2025/06/20/nba-draft-confidential-bigs-centers-2025/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=7030725&source=dailyemail

I figured the "league opinions" on Queen would be the most clamored for here (NOTE: the comments on Maluach were GLOWING):

Derik Queen | 6-9 big | 20 years old | Maryland

Eastern Conference executive No. 1: I’ve been telling our guys, you watch him before the games, and he (seems) lackadaisical. He doesn’t show a serious side. And that’s a turnoff to some people. I’m like, think of Naz Reid when he was at LSU. It was the same damn thing. The games never get too big for (Queen).

College assistant coach No. 2 (his team played Maryland): The skill is real. The knowledge of the game, and how to get to where he needs to go, crafty, is a real thing. He’s not jumping over a phone book. I worry about, can he guard? Who he’s going to guard is my question. I don’t worry about him at all on offense. But I don’t think he can guard fives. I don’t think he’s great in pick-and-roll defense, and I don’t think he can move well enough laterally to guard Giannis and Michael Porter Jr., these scorers. He tries on defense, I think. I just don’t think he moves well enough for it to be as good as it needs to be if he’s not going to be a guy who’s going to be super efficient on offense.

I like him a lot (though). He can pass. He’s a willing passer. He actually wants to pass. He can really see the floor. He can survey. He can get to his spot. He can make a shot off both feet. He can knock you off balance. He can get to the free-throw line. He’s a good rebounder. There’s a lot to like. The defensive part is where I have questions. Who’s he guarding? Can he guard (Mikal) Bridges? Can he guard Josh Hart? Can he guard Stew (Isaiah Stewart), the next tier of guys who aren’t the primary offensive option, but they know how to cut, how to go to the glass?

College assistant coach No. 3 (his team played Maryland): I am not a Derik Queen guy. He can’t shoot. Look at his 3-point percentage and number of attempts. I don’t know who he’s going to guard. Very skilled with the ball, because he’s got great hands. Good from 15 feet on in. Doesn’t run fast or hard. But he hardly took any 3s. And the way the NBA game is right now, what are you gonna do? But he’s a great rebounder.

Western Conference scout No. 1: Nice kid. Heavy emphasis on kid. We interviewed him, and he’s 19 going on 14. He can do one thing: he can score. But you don’t want to have to rely on a rookie scoring for you to contribute.
I wonder if Queen will slip to #18?

Queen is a top 5 pick. None of the guards has a standing reach better than 8'8. They wont last long in the league.
Just be another check mark on long list of mistakes that gets hyped up by consensus draft guru when standing reach would easily tell you they were no perennial all stars yet drafted top 10. Cooper flagg is basically Cody Zeller and every draft expert is screaming generational talent and top GMs are laughing inside.
Butch of Giannis level guys here. Queen is basically Charles Barkley and this board is pushing out to 18 like sheep. Steven Adams still in league.

I'll be you a million dollars that Cooper Flagg makes more All-Star games and All-NBA teams than Queen.

The best case scenario for Queen is that he is a a less mobile Demarcus Cousins with 5 less inches of wingspan. That's not a compliment. Cousins was a very skilled player but an inefficient gunner and a terrible defender. Demarcus Cousins won less than 30 games in every season of his career.

Also, your focus on historical standing reach does not reflect the fact that players are consistently tanking the standing reach measurement to boost their vertical leap numbers. Dylan Harper is a half-inch taller than James Harden with a quarter-inch shorter wingspan, but somehow has 1.5 inches shorter standing reach.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#865 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:19 pm

God, I would hate it so much if we traded up for Fears, so so much. It's one thing to trade up for Bailey, consensus #2 overall recruit from the '24 class, consensus #3 to #4 prospect based upon performance in the college season. Fears was projected in a lot of mocks to go between about 4 or 5 and about 12 before the season but was habitually in the 25-40 zone of recruits. I really like Fears, I really like him, but evaluating him as well as I could do, not as well as you guys but just measuring him against what scouts have said about prospects since the 80's, he firmly sits in that third tier of guys to me, the guys slotted 5th to about 8th or 9th. I see no difference really in the ceiling and floor risks of him and other options in the tier, Tre, Maluach, Kon, Essengue (who appears to have climbed to 5-15 from 15-25 a few months ago)....Fears is different of course, Maluach has the highest ceiling, Tre has a higher floor than either of them, Kon the highest floor of all and the lowest ceiling of the five of them, Essengue, like Maluach, the biggest spread....but Fears feels like, us trying so bad to check a box, instead of just taking our biggest swing, and I HATE that. We do not HAVE to have a PG. We have adequate cover for now, I really hope they aren't reaching for need here.

Take the big swing. Maluach, Essengue, a trade up for Bailey, Bailey at slot etc. Pick 18 and the surrounding territory has a pile of PG and Bigs available, we can use 18 to take whatever we can't get w/6 or a trade up. I can't help but wonder if the issue is, when they look at the '26 class, they see Wings, a Big, and a combo Guard in tier 1 of that class (Dybantsa, Peterson, Boozer, Ament), no true PG.

But honestly this class has a bunch of guys after Fears with their own limitations and this boards hates nearly all of them but they are still options: Demin, Jakucionsis, Traore, Saraf, even worse options like a combo guy like Richardson who lacks the height for the 2, or lesser tops like Clayton, Proctor....there's a ton PG's projected to go between about 12-35, 6 or 7 at minimum. If we trade up, it should be for Harper or Bailey, elite guys with huge ceilings, not question marks like Fears. I'm fine with Fears at 6 if Bailey's gone and especially if Bailey' and Maluach are gone, but I would lose my ---- if we traded a pile of assets w/a guy with as risky a floor and flaws as many as Fears. I really like him as a prospect, but when you have the iffy ceiling he has because of the shooting, size, lack of assists, defensive issues, such as player should not cost a pile of assets to acquire in a class with players with much higher ceilings and typically higher floors.

I hope the rumors are wrong. It would really, really piss me off if we traded 18 and a really good player for Fears. Yes I can envision Fears becoming great, I can, but it's super easy to envision him becoming yet another small, middling PG, who you're eventually trying to replace 2-4 years later, or perpetually disasatified with (say constantly hoping the 3 comes around for instance). Trade the farm for Harper? Sure, though it would hurt, trade some for Bailey, okay, but trade the farm or a good chunk for Fears? Just sounds like a terrible idea.

I'd much rather just take Essengue, or Maluach at 6 and then pick the best PG available at 18 or in a trade down, or, failing that, take Fears at 6 (especially if Maluach is gone), and then grab the big at 18. Just for the love of God don't trade up for Fears, it would be the first truly thoughtless move they've made during the rebuild (in my view, and yes, I'd include Deni as behind that, Deni, I can understand even though I disliked the execution, I simply can't understand trading away multiple firsts and a player for Fears, it strikes me as just flat out idiotic considering his floor and ceiling issues as a prospect).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#866 » by nate33 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:41 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:God, I would hate it so much if we traded up for Fears, so so much. It's one thing to trade up for Bailey, consensus #2 overall recruit from the '24 class, consensus #3 to #4 prospect based upon performance in the college season. Fears was projected in a lot of mocks to go between about 4 or 5 and about 12 before the season but was habitually in the 25-40 zone of recruits. I really like Fears, I really like him, but evaluating him as well as I could do, not as well as you guys but just measuring him against what scouts have said about prospects since the 80's, he firmly sits in that third tier of guys to me, the guys slotted 5th to about 8th or 9th. I see no difference really in the ceiling and floor risks of him and other options in the tier, Tre, Maluach, Kon, Essengue (who appears to have climbed to 5-15 from 15-25 a few months ago)....Fears is different of course, Maluach has the highest ceiling, Tre has a higher floor than either of them, Kon the highest floor of all and the lowest ceiling of the five of them, Essengue, like Maluach, the biggest spread....but Fears feels like, us trying so bad to check a box, instead of just taking our biggest swing, and I HATE that. We do not HAVE to have a PG. We have adequate cover for now, I really hope they aren't reaching for need here.

We're not trading up for Fears. Have faith.

I doubt we'll even take Fears at #6. I'm confident that we have VJ, Bailey and Maluach higher on our board than Fears. I believe the only way we take Fears is if all of those guys are already gone, and I don't see that happening because one of Charlotte/Utah is probably going to take one of Tre/Kneuppel.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#867 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:47 pm

Hard to imagine that we have any intention to trade up for Fears.

Seems a given that Flagg, Harper, Edgecombe & Johnson will all be gone when 6 comes along, leaving us to choose between Fears & Bailey. Or Maluach.

Or, if Bailey goes, we'd be choosing between Fears & one of Edgecombe/Johnson. Or Maluach.

Now, if Maluach goes in the top 5, that's when things get interesting! At that point, we'd be looking at one of Fears, Bailey or, say, Edgecombe.

At that point, I really would hope we could trade back with the Nets (our 3 picks for their 4).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#868 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:53 pm

I can more easily imagine Kon than Fears -- & I think I'd prefer him to Fears!
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#869 » by doclinkin » Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:59 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:God, I would hate it so much if we traded up for Fears, so so much.


We are not trading up for Fears.

That oh so secret workout leaked to local reporters and Wiz bloggers with internal sources. As did the tradeup for Fears rumors. Whereas of the other Georgetown workouts we’ve held, we hear not a peep. Except that Derik Queen worked against other Bigs.

The murmurs that leaked about the Wiz trading up were for the #2. Likely leaked by the Spurs to increase the bids for that slot. Those rumors were from national guys not our local locos.

We also hear Maluach has worked with us. Again said by national reporters. Likely asking his camp who he’s talked to.

I expect the FO is doing due diligence on Fears. If he blew them away they’d consider him. But he does not fit the profile of the players they tend to hunt.

Positional size. Interchangeability. Defense. Athleticism. Upside development. BBIQ. Youth. He only checks a few of those boxes. With demerits on the first 3.

This time of year if you hear anything you look less at what is said and more at who is saying it. And what is not being said.

Like I’d believe more that we are after Essengue than Fears since we have heard absolutely nothing about him.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#870 » by doclinkin » Sat Jun 21, 2025 4:08 pm

nate33 wrote:
I doubt we'll even take Fears at #6. I'm confident that we have VJ, Bailey and Maluach higher on our board than Fears. I believe the only way we take Fears is if all of those guys are already gone.


I think it entirely possible all 3 are gone. I think the smokescreen on Fears is against that possibility. Where if we can’t climb up to grab one of those guys, if he doesn’t fall, then we want to look like Fears is a real option for us and if you want him (Brooklyn) you’ll have to bid.

I think at that point we look for extra picks at the Sorber Bryant tier. And steal 1-3 of the French kids. Essengue. Beringer. Penda. Plus future assets.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#871 » by doclinkin » Sat Jun 21, 2025 4:14 pm

We have made it clear in the media we are not pressed to win quickly. Are timing the tear down to the renovation of the building and the earliest evaluation of it as these rookie contracts expire. That plus the +400m$ we get from the league from expansion etc as ripple effects from the Celts and Lakers sale means the front office doesn’t have to force it to recruit a star they can sell. If we are stalled one more year that’s still part of the plan.

But yeah it’d be nice if we could land Harper. He fits all of their criteria. I just don’t think we have enough.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#872 » by NatP4 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 4:25 pm

Utah reportedly had two workouts with Fears. Either really like him or more smokescreen/agent stuff. Already have Sexton and Collier, I’d be shocked if they wanted Fears.

Utah is such a wildcard if no trades happen in the top 5.

Dallas: Flagg
SAS: Harper
Philly: Tre
Charlotte: VJ
Utah: Kon? Maluach? Take Bailey anyways?

For me, I’d rank the options in order: Kon, Bailey, Maluach, Fears/Jakucionis. If they go off the board/trade down: CMB, Essengue.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#873 » by Kanyewest » Sat Jun 21, 2025 4:33 pm

doclinkin wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote:God, I would hate it so much if we traded up for Fears, so so much.


We are not trading up for Fears.

That oh so secret workout leaked to local reporters and Wiz bloggers with internal sources. As did the tradeup for Fears rumors. Whereas of the other Georgetown workouts we’ve held, we hear not a peep. Except that Derik Queen worked against other Bigs.

The murmurs that leaked about the Wiz trading up were for the #2. Likely leaked by the Spurs to increase the bids for that slot. Those rumors were from national guys not our local locos.

We also hear Maluach has worked with us. Again said by national reporters. Likely asking his camp who he’s talked to.

I expect the FO is doing due diligence on Fears. If he blew them away they’d consider him. But he does not fit the profile of the players they tend to hunt.

Positional size. Interchangeability. Defense. Athleticism. Upside development. BBIQ. Youth. He only checks a few of those boxes. With demerits on the first 3.

This time of year if you hear anything you look less at what is said and more at who is saying it. And what is not being said.

Like I’d believe more that we are after Essengue than Fears since we have heard absolutely nothing about him.


Just to note that Mike Miller is Fears agent and as a former Wizard may have leaked the story to drive up the value of Fears. Can't rule out a leak from somewhere in the front office either(they may want to trade down) , but rumors like Fears to the Wizards generates clicks.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#874 » by dckingsfan » Sat Jun 21, 2025 4:38 pm

NatP4 wrote:Utah reportedly had two workouts with Fears. Either really like him or more smokescreen/agent stuff. Already have Sexton and Collier, I’d be shocked if they wanted Fears.

Utah is such a wildcard if no trades happen in the top 5.

Dallas: Flagg
SAS: Harper
Philly: Tre
Charlotte: VJ
Utah: Kon? Maluach? Take Bailey anyways?

For me, I’d rank the options in order: Kon, Bailey, Maluach, Fears/Jakucionis. If they go off the board/trade down: CMB, Essengue.

Yeah.

To me it starts with SA - can they get Giannis (I think they are out on Durant). Then with Charlotte & Utah, can they get multiple picks. They the Wiz and can they get multiple picks. And for each of Charlotte, Utah & the Wizards - is there guy available at their pick.

All while other teams are trying to trade up and some out of the draft. Add to that - many teams in the various aprons will be stuck trading vs. acquiring FAs.

That what makes this such an interesting draft. That in combination of the flatness of the draft (sans Flagg & Harper) and sooooo many different opinions on the various players both on this board and following all the various commentators.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#875 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jun 21, 2025 4:52 pm

payitforward wrote:I can more easily imagine Kon than Fears -- & I think I'd prefer him to Fears!


Definitely not that. I think Kon has like a 2% chance of being a truly special player, I think Fears has a 20-25% chance of being a special player, the difference between them for me is two fold: #1 those ceilings, and two, the floor, I think Kon at worst, is a very good solid player, not elite, never an all star, but like Olynk level solid career, Fears I can picture in a few years having a similar value to Tyus Jones, a couple of 2nds, if it all goes totally Trey Burke, that's the problem I have with him, I can picture him flaming out entirely, or just hitting the absolute lilliputian floor.

I'd much prefer Fears to Kon, because Kon is just another Kispert floor decision. That's fine for a team that's a perennial 1-5 seed and is just finding utility within their depth chart, drafting for roles and floors, that's a horror show with a team like ours that totally lacks ceiling prospects beyond Sarr and Bilal, who have highly unlikely but possible ceilings, and then a bunch of solid bench guys and low end starters, for us, Kon is clinically insane, basically Tommy Shepard 101 selection.

I am afraid because of the level of smoke out there. I'd probably hate Tre more because I've seen a billion Tre's drafted over the years, and about 80-90% of the time, players that have his profile: super confident shooter, it's all about me, no defense, good projectable traits, totally fail to hit the projections and potential, and simply rely entirely on what got them here, and don't do the work to extend out the potential. 85-95% of the time, write ups I've seen of prospects like Tre, play out to the absolute floor potential, which is why I don't want him. It's lazy analysis compared to others here, but it's based on having watched or dug into about 37 drafts. Tre is a historical type that nearly always either busts, or hits his floor (me guy with a great jumper who can get his buckets, but never improves on what he brings in). Only thing that gives me hope with him is he was a top 5 recruit, has those projectable traits, and has guaranteed skill that will deliver, but it's not enough to overcome my experience of seeing nearly all those guys fail to reach their ceilings. Only thing that would change my mind is a through the roof mental make up, interviews, background checks that would suggest he's a first in, last out, mega worker, but I haven't heard that, at all, so I'm super doubtful of it.

So for me, it's basically Bailey, Maluach, then Fears or trade down (Harper Trade up would be #1, but I don't think the Spurs are interested, I think instead, they are gonna trade one of their vets this summer, next winter, or in summer '26 after they're blown away by Harper in season).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#876 » by closg00 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 5:01 pm

NatP4 wrote:Utah reportedly had two workouts with Fears. Either really like him or more smokescreen/agent stuff. Already have Sexton and Collier, I’d be shocked if they wanted Fears.

Utah is such a wildcard if no trades happen in the top 5.

Dallas: Flagg
SAS: Harper
Philly: Tre
Charlotte: VJ
Utah: Kon? Maluach? Take Bailey anyways?

For me, I’d rank the options in order: Kon, Bailey, Maluach, Fears/Jakucionis. If they go off the board/trade down: CMB, Essengue.


Utah has the luxury of picking before us, and seeing who Philly and Charlotte take, are any of Bailey/Johnson/Fears acceptable to us? I imagine that we would take any of them that is still there and be satisfied.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#877 » by dckingsfan » Sat Jun 21, 2025 5:07 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:Harper Trade up would be #1, but I don't think the Spurs are interested, I think instead, they are gonna trade one of their vets this summer, next winter, or in summer '26 after they're blown away by Harper in season.

Yeah, SA is interesting they get Harper and #14 (I would absolutely hate for them to get Noa Essengue here). They can literally do nothing and then evaluate the team for the trade deadline or trades for next year.

Oft linked to Milwaukee and Giannis and one of the teams that could make it happen next year. Or the team comes together and they do nothing.

So, I am with you - I don't see them trading the pick(s) unless Giannis and Milwaukee step up and I give that a pretty remote chance.

Back to Philly to make the first move - shmaybe.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#878 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jun 21, 2025 5:13 pm

They'd consider a trade that was transformative, but, what can we give them that is as valuable as the Harper ticket? Nothing other than our '26 or '27 first, but we can't right, so there's no reason they'd trade for us. To me, they've got Castle, that other vet, and they can move one of those guys in '26 or '27 once Harper has blown them away which he almost certainly will do, and Harper, better than Castle already, and way cheaper than the vet long term, is a way, way, way smarter piece to build around. Honestly it makes me so sick I want to throw up that this team, already blessed with riches from the last two drafts, gets this piece too? Whether rigged or not, this system needs to be flushed tomorrow, the lottery is such ridiculous bull----. Anyway, yeah, if I'm the spur, I play Harper a bit, start Castle, and either move Castle or the vet, by the winter of '26 or summer, especially if Harper blows me away. There is no trade, none, I would make involving Harper, period, if I was them. No for Giannis, sure as hell no for Durant.

The Durant situation just makes me laugh and I hope NBA teams are smart enough to realize there is no reason they should pay heavy freight for Durant. He's a thousand years old, and could retire or hit the wall at any time, there's no reason whatsoever to trade anything of tangible value (top picks, swaps, elite young players), it was heartening to hear on Simmons the other day that word on the street is that the offers Phoenix is getting are ----. Good. Should've traded him at '25 winter deadline, now if they're smart, they'll hold and deal him winter '26 when teams are a bit more panicked or fixated on the playoff possibilities, but I still think they are screwed and I'm so happy we've got those swaps.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#879 » by FAH1223 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 5:27 pm

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#880 » by NatP4 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 5:34 pm

closg00 wrote:Utah has the luxury of picking before us, and seeing who Philly and Charlotte take, are any of Bailey/Johnson/Fears acceptable to us? I imagine that we would take any of them that is still there and be satisfied.


At this point, I’d be shocked if they take Bailey. Givony/Vecenie/Russilo/Woo have all stated that the Bailey situation is rubbing teams the wrong way. He’s declined the Wizards request for a meeting/workout.

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