Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[penbeast0]

We don't need short term help. This isn't a contending team. We need to look to long term building and Bulletproof for Sideshow Bob hurts that both directly (Blatche is younger and has a higher ceiling) and indirectly (do we really want to move closer to mediocrity this season and hurt our draft position when it doesn't push us into contending status in the next 3 years).

[nate33]

RE: Blatche/Varajeo,

Thanks penbeast0, Ruzious and others for talking me off the ledge. I'm frustrated as hell with Blatche, but now is not the time to trade youth/potential for an older vet who has reached his ceiling.

[fishercob]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... de-ru.html

I would also point out for those saying that Ted "isn't going to trade Gil" that Mike Lee has now reported it about six times that we were the ones who called Orlando with the idea of the Gil for Vince deal. We made the offer. Some seem to have stricken this parsnip from their data banks.

Here it is again:

The Wizards contacted the Magic last summer about trading Arenas for Vince Carter's expiring contract, but the conversation didn't get very far.

Hoop, just because Mike Lee keeps reporting something and it's been repeated around the web doesn't mean it's right. Look at what's on Hoopsworld today.

Forget what you’re hearing, the Magic made one phone call this summer and went about their business.

Gilbert’s deal is too big and he is too high risk both from an injury point of view and a personality point of view for a team with championship aspiration to gamble on him.

The Magic made the inquiry before seeing Vince Carter play and as of today unless Vince falls off the depth chart, the Magic don’t have an ongoing discussion with Washington, at least according to Washington. Sources close to the Wizards said they had no interest in Carter, even if it got them out of Gilbert’s deal.

The Wizards are stuck with Gilbert and unless they want to toss in John Wall as bait for a deal, there just isn’t a team willing to take what Gilbert is right now for any combination of bad deals.

Gilbert will have to put together a string of All-Star type games and prove he can play at an elite level and stay healthy before anyone will sniff at him.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?sto ... z173s4MHSV

Everyone can choose to believe what they like, and we'll never know the truth unless a trade is consummated. I hardly take Mike Lee's report that the Wiz offered Arenas for Carter as fact.

[Hoopalotta]

Hmmm, rather bizarre to see that from Kyler of all people as he's one of the Orlando reporters I was talking aboutg. He has emphatically and consistently debunked the entire notion that the Magic are interested in Gil and reported the opposite in reference to the initiation of the discussions (though I don't see anything in his archives). He's been like a crusader on this point.

We should plug that question into his next chat: "who called who, Steve?".

I don't see when that chat would be, though.......

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chats.asp

[BanndNDC]

cmon hoop, we're washingtonians. if there is one skill we should all have and know very well it is that of the floating of the trial balloon and subsequent denial.

the pattern is clear. there was a preliminary phone call this summer that didn't go anywhere. initial negotiating positions were too far apart for anything to happen. orlando publically (through leaks) made a case for their negotiating position (too risky too expensive) while signaling that they were open to a deal if the pot was sweetened. washington did not bite (probably because ernie offers what he offers). as it becomes clear that orlando needs to upgrade carter, add some backcourt scoring and that Lewis' contract is about to get really bad they leak the story again (this time providing details of exactly what the extra sweetener they want is - blatche and no lewis contract) to indicate their interest. when combined with the denial stories the narrative is clear. we "dont" want to trade for arenas but we're willing to if you make us an offer we cant refuse (while leaking what exactly that offer would be).

in other words:
summer: ernie calls and suggests gilbert for carter straight up. smith tries to get more (probably demanded a pick or two). ernie turns him down. smith leaks story to try and get support for his position that orlando needs to be compensated for taking on gil's contract. ted hears story and does a joey lawrence whoah. discussions stop.
now: orlando tries to revive discussions by floating arenas/blatche for carter/lewis which they promptly deny thereby indicating they would want some sweetener (probably a 2nd). washington hopefully does nothing. no denial from washington because this wasnt floated by us.

i definitely believe that ernie is willing to trade arenas for an expiring. he's probably willing to throw in a 2nd, young or take on a songaila sized contract for a role player as well. leonsis on the other hand probably doesnt want to trade arenas unless it's for an expiring and a pick. smith meanwhile isnt reading the situation correctly and is trying to get more. honestly, if smith called and offered carter/2nd for arenas then ernie would jump and might be able to convince leonsis to sign off (let's just hope that smith continues to overplay his hand).

[Hoopalotta]

Yeah, Banned, I see where you're going with that and it sounds plausible, I guess my hangup is that I see it being hard for Otis Smith to actually get a deal through with the orlando owners that isn't A) really close to being salary neutral, or B) A wild homerun for a Paul/Anthony kind of player. So I'm skeptical that he thinks he can achieve advantage with those sorts of maneuvers based on that limitation. The CBA uncertainty adds to this too.

However, if Orlando really is willing to take on that sort of money without it being Chris Paul, your interpretation has a good shot of being correct and converges with their interests.

[nate33]

I still can't believe that they, with a straight face, offered us Lewis and Carter for Arenas and Blatche (plus presumably Thornton or Howard to make the numbers work). That's got to be one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.

[REDardWIZskin]

would have been Highway Robbery

[tontoz]

I still can't believe that they, with a straight face, offered us Lewis and Carter for Arenas and Blatche (plus presumably Thornton or Howard to make the numbers work). That's got to be one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.

Actually it makes perfect sense. It doesn't hurt to ask. If you don't ask, the answer is always no.

There is a loooong way to go before the trade deadline so it isn't like they have to make their best offer now.

[Induveca]

I still can't believe that they, with a straight face, offered us Lewis and Carter for Arenas and Blatche (plus presumably Thornton or Howard to make the numbers work). That's got to be one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.

Actually it makes perfect sense. It doesn't hurt to ask. If you don't ask, the answer is always no.

There is a loooong way to go before the trade deadline so it isn't like they have to make their best offer now.

Just curious are you a Wall bandwagon fan? Sort of showed up out of nowhere.

[Hoopalotta]

Alright, now I'm not suggesting that this is any sort of definitive info, but here was the Alex Kennedy chat today (he's located in Orlando):

Jesse in Toronto:
Talk of Arenas and a player to Magic for Carter and maybe Lewis is BAAAAAAD in my books.Did you see Toronto hamper Arenas? I mean Toronto!Lol! And they want this guy at his price?

Alex Kennedy:
I can't see it happening. Over the summer, when the Arenas to Orlando rumors started heating up, one very reliable league source told me that Washington initiated the talks and once they got to Otis Smith, he killed the talks immediately. Say what you want about his relationship with Arenas, he's not going to set the team back to acquire him.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1307

Again, that does not mean this info is correct, but it's worth throwing into the pot. But we really should ask Steve Kyler to clarify his point as I really remember him going to other way with it before.

[MJG]

Alright, now I'm not suggesting that this is any sort of definitive info, but here was the Alex Kennedy chat today (he's located in Orlando):

Jesse in Toronto:
Talk of Arenas and a player to Magic for Carter and maybe Lewis is BAAAAAAD in my books.Did you see Toronto hamper Arenas? I mean Toronto!Lol! And they want this guy at his price?

Alex Kennedy:
I can't see it happening. Over the summer, when the Arenas to Orlando rumors started heating up, one very reliable league source told me that Washington initiated the talks and once they got to Otis Smith, he killed the talks immediately. Say what you want about his relationship with Arenas, he's not going to set the team back to acquire him.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1307

Again, that does not mean this info is correct, but it's worth throwing into the pot. But we really should ask Steve Kyler to clarify his point as I really remember him going to other way with it before.

Kennedy's reliable league source = Otis Smith.

[Benjammin]

Considering that Vince Carter has played better than Gil this year, it should be a moot point anyway.

[tontoz]

Just curious are you a Wall bandwagon fan? Sort of showed up out of nowhere.

Hard question to answer. I was a Bullets fan from back in the days when Chenier was actually a player. I remember the Fat Lady.

I moved to Atlanta in '93 and started following the Hawks. I don't know if League Pass even existed back then. I moved back to Maryland in '05 and continued to follow the Hawks. However it has been tough. There have been so many blown draft picks in recent years that it has really put a ceiling on the team. Unless they make some major roster moves i don't think they are going to be a threat to get out of the second round.

After moving back here i would occasionally check out the Wizards games. When they traded for Miller/Foye I actually thought they would be pretty good but then everything went to crap. At the same time the Hawks had a historic collapse in the playoffs last year. I was basically looking for a reason to start following another team.

Then the Wizards got the first pick. They are in a similar situation that the Hawks were in a few years ago. It is easier for me to start following a team that is rebuilding as opposed to an established team.

So to answer your question..... yes and no lol. Now i am following both teams. I have to confess i still root for the Hawks to win when playing the Wizards.

[kirubel94]

the only player the wizards should trade for is danny granger , trade them arenas and someone else for this dude please!

[MJG]

the only player the wizards should trade for is danny granger , trade them arenas and someone else for this dude please!

I disagree. I think the only player the Wizards should trade for is Tayshuan Prince. Let's make that happen!

[LyricalRico]

Wizards trade: Arenas
Wizards receive: Iggy and Garcia

Kings trade: Garcia and Udrih
Kings receive: Arenas

Sixers trade: Iggy
Sixers receive: Udrih

TRADE ID 5754637

Works since Sacto is under the cap. The Kings do it to upgrade at PG. The Sixers to it to save money, both immediately and longterm.

Our wing rotation is pretty jumbled for the rest of this season but next season we should be good. We focus on acquiring 3pt shooters at the SG spot plus a vet big or two and we'll be a complete team.

McGee/Seraphin
Blatche/Booker
Iggy/Garcia
FA/FA
Wall/Hinrich

[nate33]

I think Iggy would fail in Flip's offense much like Butler did. We don't need a ball dominant SF; we need a "3 and D" SF.

I guess I'd do it purely for the cap savings. We're turning Arenas into two, younger players with 3 years remaining instead of four. I have hard time believing the other sides would go for it though.

[Induveca]

Iguodala would be great in Dallas or LA. Horrible in DC (he should not be a score-first type player)

If Cuban can somehow convince Philly to take back Butler and some cash/young guys Dallas would be EXTREMELY dangerous in the playoffs.

For LA? Bynum/Shannon Brown for Iguodala/Kapono (or whoever) would be frightening and makes sense for both teams. Iguodala's game/role really impressed me at the world championships. He'd fit right in alongside Bryant/Gasol/Artest/Odom. Could relieve Bryant/Artest/Odom at SG/SF.

[dangermouse]

OKC is the perfect destination for Iggy. That is, if OKC is willing to make what they would see as a risky move in breaking up some of their young 'core'. In my eyes they should. They have built their team through very well chosen draft picks, its time to reach the next level by orchestrating a trade for a savvy veteran.

They should be able to swing something around Jeff Green, or James Harden, to sweeten the pot they could add a first or throw in Aldrich. That would be the best package the Sixers could even dream of getting.