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How do you fix this team?

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Chocolate City Jordanaire
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#881 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:54 pm

Cousins with McGee? How about a real simple deal like this:

Washington sends Andray Blatche and Kevin Seraphin to Sacramento
Washington receives Demarcus Cousins and Francisco Garcia


Sacramento got JJ Hickson from the Cavs. They've got Thompson. Blatche is a guy they can use at C or PF. Seraphin would be a backup C prospect. Garcia is expendable because they acquired John Salmons and everyone knows Jimmer will probably start next to Tyreke Evans.

For Washington, this gives them a perimeter shooter and a post presence, one who has played well with Wall in the past. Next to McGee I think Cousins would shine because Javale has great hands and Demarcus is a good passer.

theboomking, I think they would complement each other very well; and don't forget that Wall and Cousins definitely play well together.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#882 » by dangermouse » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:50 am

I'd be all over that.

I think with Cousins immaturity and temper, his value is dropping. Hopefully, if Blatche plays well and comes back strong, his value will rise to where the trade of the two would seem fairly even.

Seraphin is just a bonus, i'd even throw in a 2nd rounder to sweeten the deal.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#883 » by Halcyon » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:55 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Cousins with McGee? How about a real simple deal like this:

Washington sends Andray Blatche and Kevin Seraphin to Sacramento
Washington receives Demarcus Cousins and Francisco Garcia


Sacramento got JJ Hickson from the Cavs. They've got Thompson. Blatche is a guy they can use at C or PF. Seraphin would be a backup C prospect. Garcia is expendable because they acquired John Salmons and everyone knows Jimmer will probably start next to Tyreke Evans.

For Washington, this gives them a perimeter shooter and a post presence, one who has played well with Wall in the past. Next to McGee I think Cousins would shine because Javale has great hands and Demarcus is a good passer.

theboomking, I think they would complement each other very well; and don't forget that Wall and Cousins definitely play well together.

I think the Kings would laugh in our faces if we proposed that deal. I do think that Cousins could be reined in by Wall to some extent though and would be a nice combo with him.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#884 » by verbal8 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:45 pm

Halcyon wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Cousins with McGee? How about a real simple deal like this:

Washington sends Andray Blatche and Kevin Seraphin to Sacramento
Washington receives Demarcus Cousins and Francisco Garcia


Sacramento got JJ Hickson from the Cavs. They've got Thompson. Blatche is a guy they can use at C or PF. Seraphin would be a backup C prospect. Garcia is expendable because they acquired John Salmons and everyone knows Jimmer will probably start next to Tyreke Evans.

For Washington, this gives them a perimeter shooter and a post presence, one who has played well with Wall in the past. Next to McGee I think Cousins would shine because Javale has great hands and Demarcus is a good passer.

theboomking, I think they would complement each other very well; and don't forget that Wall and Cousins definitely play well together.

I think the Kings would laugh in our faces if we proposed that deal. I do think that Cousins could be reined in by Wall to some extent though and would be a nice combo with him.


Don't they still owe the Wizards one for the Webber-Richmond debacle.

One trade that would remind me too much of that on a smaller scale would be Garcia for Blatche.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#885 » by theboomking » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:06 pm

I don't think Cousins is currently available for anything but an All Star level package. I do think that will change over time however, and that by year 3, Sacremento might consider moving him for less.

I also think that given Cousins' strong relationship with Wall, and his comments after the Rookie Challenge about one year not being long enough to play with Wall, that Cousins would strongly consider signing here as a FA.

I agree CCJ, that Cousins would complement this team well. Cousins is a beast of a rebounder, a load in inside on offense. BTW, you mentioned Cousins' passing ability. Did you know that he averaged 3.8 APG after the All Star break last year?
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#886 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:04 pm

theboomking wrote:How about we draft Barnes this year, and resign McGee and Young. We retain Blatche long enough to build his trade value, then move him when we can do so for a decent value. In 2014, we sign Stephen Curry as an URFA, then the following year add Cousins and resign Wall.

2015:
PG: Wall, Crawford
SG:Curry, Young
SF:Vesely, Singleton
PF:Cousins, Booker
C:McGee, Seraphin.

Meh, not sure I like it. I'm intrigued by Cousins and McGee together, as I think they would complement each other well, if Cousins becomes more efficient.

Can we please stop with the Curry talk? He's not that great of a fit because of his lousy D. His acquisition cost is going to be way higher than his production on our team. Besides, he won't be an URFA when his rookie contract expires. He'll be restricted.

It's impossible to acquire good young players coming off their rookie contracts. The original team always matches.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#887 » by theboomking » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:36 pm

nate33 wrote:
theboomking wrote:How about we draft Barnes this year, and resign McGee and Young. We retain Blatche long enough to build his trade value, then move him when we can do so for a decent value. In 2014, we sign Stephen Curry as an URFA, then the following year add Cousins and resign Wall.

2015:
PG: Wall, Crawford
SG:Curry, Young
SF:Vesely, Singleton
PF:Cousins, Booker
C:McGee, Seraphin.

Meh, not sure I like it. I'm intrigued by Cousins and McGee together, as I think they would complement each other well, if Cousins becomes more efficient.

Can we please stop with the Curry talk? He's not that great of a fit because of his lousy D. His acquisition cost is going to be way higher than his production on our team. Besides, he won't be an URFA when his rookie contract expires. He'll be restricted.

It's impossible to acquire good young players coming off their rookie contracts. The original team always matches.


I agree that we aren;t going to land Curry. I disagree that he would be a poor fit. Curry is a deadly efficient scorer, a very very good passer, and makes good decisions with the ball. Curry's offensive efficiency more than negates his defensive deficiencies in 95% of his matchups. If Curry's defense made him a liability, his plus/minus numbers would look worse.

Curry's advanced stats: ORTG 113, PER 19.4, TS% .595 WS/48 .128 I don't have the time/ability to find them while at work, but I understand that Curry's on/off numbers look pretty good. Stephen would be our most efficient offensive player, and the Mavericks have shown that having a solid defensive system can allow you to play dynamic guards that don't defend well without suffering too much on the defensive end. Is Curry less offensively or defensively talented than Barea or Terry?
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#888 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:43 pm

You could make exactly the same arguments about Jamison. Why don't we just resign him?
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#889 » by theboomking » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:00 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:You could make exactly the same arguments about Jamison. Why don't we just resign him?


You could make the same argument. Jamison has never been as efficient a scorer as Curry however, and outside of an extraordinarily efficient sophomore campaign by Jamison, it hasn't even been close.

It is also much easier to hide guards that defend poorly than bigs. Furthermore, 6'9" PF's that can't defend, and that score in volume with moderate efficiency, are a dime a dozen. Starting guards that shoot 44% from 3 point range, hit 45% of their long 2's and 93% from the FT line however are a much more rare and prized commodity. How many players in the league could help spread a defense and keep them honest better than Curry?
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#890 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:18 pm

Oh, you're talking about Stephen Curry. I thought you meant lard-a$$ Curry.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#891 » by verbal8 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:33 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Oh, you're talking about Stephen Curry. I thought you meant lard-a$$ Curry.


The only place Eddy Curry demonstrates efficiency is at a buffet. Ok, maybe he was efficient in 2006/7.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#892 » by Dat2U » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:34 pm

theboomking wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:You could make exactly the same arguments about Jamison. Why don't we just resign him?


You could make the same argument. Jamison has never been as efficient a scorer as Curry however, and outside of an extraordinarily efficient sophomore campaign by Jamison, it hasn't even been close.

It is also much easier to hide guards that defend poorly than bigs.


This. Your bigs are the last line of defense. You can't win in the playoffs if your bigs can't challenge shots. A good defensive big can erase the mistakes of poor defending guards.

Curry is a dream fit IMO. Probably not realistic but I think he's perfect combo with Wall considering his court awareness, decision making and shot making ability. Offensively it's an unstoppable combo IMO. Defensively I think Wall can matchup with 2s. He's certainly got the length to do so. And there aren't many elite 2s out there anyways so I see minimal risk.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#893 » by Nivek » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:44 pm

Yeah -- a well-designed defense is funneling shooters to big defenders anyway because bigs have a greater effect in lowering opposing shooting percentages. I've typed what Rick Carlisle told me years ago when he was still coaching Detroit, but it's worth repeating. He said, "Anyone can be a good defender in our system if he follows our rules and plays with effort."

That comment from Carlisle was part of his answer to me asking why Richard Hamilton was a bad defender in Washington, but a decent defender in Detroit. The answer was much longer than that, and got into some Xs and Os and drawing on the white board and whatnot. Great conversation with a guy who was supposed to be bad with reporters. :)
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#894 » by pancakes3 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:00 pm

i personally don't think Curry is too bad defensively. he's not undersized for pg's, smart, hustles, and has quick hands. some beefier guards who can post up might take advantage of him on occasion but you can gameplan against that. (plus a pg post up usually results in a fadeaway anyway, which is something you can live with as long as that guard isn't MJ).

the problem is how much will it cost to sign curry? he's good offensively but he's no dynamo. 10 million? 12 million? how much would that be relative to a new CBA? if he's going to be too costly, the talent-to-dollar ratio will probably make it not worth our while.

after all, i do think Nick is talented enough to be a 3rd banana on a championship squad as long as we have a good low post presence as the 2nd fiddle. i really think al jefferson would be an awesome get for us given his ability to score, vacuum boards, and eat up space down low defensively. i'd use 'shard's money to go after him in free agency in 2013 most def.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#895 » by Ruzious » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:48 pm

Nivek wrote:Yeah -- a well-designed defense is funneling shooters to big defenders anyway because bigs have a greater effect in lowering opposing shooting percentages. I've typed what Rick Carlisle told me years ago when he was still coaching Detroit, but it's worth repeating. He said, "Anyone can be a good defender in our system if he follows our rules and plays with effort."

That comment from Carlisle was part of his answer to me asking why Richard Hamilton was a bad defender in Washington, but a decent defender in Detroit. The answer was much longer than that, and got into some Xs and Os and drawing on the white board and whatnot. Great conversation with a guy who was supposed to be bad with reporters. :)

Scott Skiles also does that with Milwaukee - and it works with a capable intelligent center.

However, that doesn't mean nate was wrong. The guard playing opposite Wall shouldn't be a guy who plays with the ball. He should be an off the ball player who plays defense - no matter what the defensive system is. Those kind of players should be the EASIEST players to find - and the cheapest. Curry is looked at as a ball-dominant scorer - his value is perceived to be very high in that role - even though he's certainly more than capable of being an off the ball player. Because Curry's trade value is very high (and keeping him would be cost prohitive if the Wiz want to acquire a big-time free agent in this decade) and because you can fill the role the Wiz need next to Wall MUCH cheaper, it makes NO SENSE to trade for Curry.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#896 » by fugop » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:10 pm

Just curious about people's thoughts -- Do we need at least one non-Wall player in the starting lineup who is capable of creating his own offense? Should the answer be yes, would you prefer that player be at SG, SF, or PF?
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#897 » by Nivek » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:23 pm

Ruzious wrote:However, that doesn't mean nate was wrong. The guard playing opposite Wall shouldn't be a guy who plays with the ball. He should be an off the ball player who plays defense - no matter what the defensive system is. Those kind of players should be the EASIEST players to find - and the cheapest. Curry is looked at as a ball-dominant scorer - his value is perceived to be very high in that role - even though he's certainly more than capable of being an off the ball player. Because Curry's trade value is very high (and keeping him would be cost prohitive if the Wiz want to acquire a big-time free agent in this decade) and because you can fill the role the Wiz need next to Wall MUCH cheaper, it makes NO SENSE to trade for Curry.


I agree that the ideal backcourt mate for Wall would be someone who doesn't need the ball. Tough defender who can shoot the three would be just fine.

As for fugop's question, what do you mean by "creating his own offense"? If you're talking about dribble penetration or the ability to shake loose and get a shot, I'd say SF. If you're talking about the ability to make a one-on-one move and get a good shot and a reliable score, I'd say center.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#898 » by theboomking » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:50 pm

Ruzious wrote:He should be an off the ball player who plays defense - no matter what the defensive system is. Those kind of players should be the EASIEST players to find - and the cheapest.

The problem is, that because our best player is never likely to be a very good shooter, even if he scores very efficiently by driving a lot and drawing a lot of fouls, we have the specific need for a SG that is very accurate from range. Maybe we are fine with Nick Young in the cheap, off ball player that can defend role. If these players are the, "easiest to find", who would you count on the list of cheap, defensively skilled, off ball scorers that have an accurate jumper with range?


Ruzious wrote: Curry is looked at as a ball-dominant scorer - his value is perceived to be very high in that role - even though he's certainly more than capable of being an off the ball player. Because Curry's trade value is very high (and keeping him would be cost prohitive if the Wiz want to acquire a big-time free agent in this decade) and because you can fill the role the Wiz need next to Wall MUCH cheaper, it makes NO SENSE to trade for Curry.

This makes a hell of a lot of sense, and it is exactly why I don't think we will pursue Curry, unless some very specific circumstances arise. Specifically, on the less than 1 percent chance that we obtained another true franchise player in free agency, then, only if there is no hard cap, having Wall on his rookie deal would allow us to also pursue another upper tier, if not elite player,like Curry, and still have the cap room/flexibility retain Wall and our current role players of Singleton, Young, Vesely, Crawford, Booker, Seraphin and Blatche.

For instance, we sign Dwight, move McGee for a shooter like Curry or even Bosh, and still have the ability to resign all of our current players if there is a soft cap.Given the completely unrealistic scenario that we are able to sign Dwight as a FA rather than trading for him, what would you guys do with McGee? Keep him? Move him for Curry, or Bosh, or another player?
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#899 » by Dat2U » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:36 pm

fugop wrote:Just curious about people's thoughts -- Do we need at least one non-Wall player in the starting lineup who is capable of creating his own offense? Should the answer be yes, would you prefer that player be at SG, SF, or PF?


IMO the answer is yes, otherwise your Iverson's 76ers or Rose's Bulls without the defense. I don't think it matters where the player plays but Ideally it should be a guy that compliments Wall's skills. I think that second shot creator in the lineup needs to have the ability to shoot consistently from the perimeter considering Wall's strengths & weaknesses. If he's 6-10 then great. If he's 6-7 that's fine. If he's 6-3 it works for me.

MJ & Pippen played together successfully. Wade & LeBron play together with success last year. You can have two guys out there at the same time who can create create their own offense. You just need the right system (not sure that Flip's PG-centric offense is ideal for two shot creators) and good chemistry b/w the players. Arenas & Hughes had both. Arenas & Wall had neither b/c Flip wasn't willing to change the system or start Arenas & Wall together to develop chemistry.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#900 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Wed Aug 3, 2011 4:56 pm

This year I'd like to keep Young, and pick up FA Aaron Gray to add to the center mix.

From there replace Lewis' roster spot with Harrison Barnes in next year's draft.
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