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Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - 2011 Draft Thread 5

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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#881 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:11 am

LyricalRico wrote:
80sballboy wrote:And Seth Davis and Dave Aldridge gave the Wiz draft a home run on NBATV.. DA loves the team in comparison to where they were before in terms of knucklehead factor. He's obviously not a big fan of Dray.


:nod:

DA even went so far as to say that Vesely was ready to start at the 4 right away and that Blatche would either "shape up or ship out". I also recall them saying that Vesely was a guy Wall wanted to play with.

I am loving this draft! :D

I'm a big DA fan, but I think he - like most - are expecting too much from Vesely. His team had a long athletic scrappy starting PF, but it wasn't Vesely; it was James Gist. Vesely was the 3. Expecting him to go immediately from a Euro 3 to a starting NBA 4... does that make sense to anyone?
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#882 » by Hoopalotta » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:25 am

Ruzious wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
80sballboy wrote:And Seth Davis and Dave Aldridge gave the Wiz draft a home run on NBATV.. DA loves the team in comparison to where they were before in terms of knucklehead factor. He's obviously not a big fan of Dray.


:nod:

DA even went so far as to say that Vesely was ready to start at the 4 right away and that Blatche would either "shape up or ship out". I also recall them saying that Vesely was a guy Wall wanted to play with.

I am loving this draft! :D

I'm a big DA fan, but I think he - like most - are expecting too much from Vesely. His team had a long athletic scrappy starting PF, but it wasn't Vesely; it was James Gist. Vesely was the 3. Expecting him to go immediately from a Euro 3 to a starting NBA 4... does that make sense to anyone?


Image

DA appears to me to be way off on this one. He can guard on the wing, but you can't put him against a guy who's just going to lower his shoulder and plow into you.

Here's a semi-final elimination game from 2010 where he was on the floor for 40 minutes with both Kleiza and Childress getting big minutes for the opposition (I've seen the end of this game). They admittedly scored some points and Childress forced OT with a putback, but we should track down the film and check it out as it would probably answer a lot of questions in general.

http://www.eurobasket.com/boxScores/Eur ... 170_93.asp

I think he can play some power forward for spots against the right matchups, but I wouldn't go any further than that.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#883 » by Black Eyed Sooz » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:49 am

Mike Prada's take on the draft is up at bulletsforever- apparently Ted was on 106.7 saying that the price to move up was 6, 18, and next yrs 1st. Are you kidding? I would've been all over that s**t. Yes we give up Singleton, but we keep JaVale... and after all that hand-wringing back and forth about whether it would be better to have McGee vs Kanter, we get BOTH those guys playing alongside each other, with Mr. John Wall running the show.

As much talent as everyone says is in next years draft, there is no Kanter nor anyone like him- not to mention that it might get diluted down again if they raise the age limit.

I hear what people are saying about Vesely's athleticism and some of his intangibles, but why do we need another guy who can't rebound, can't shoot, has bad hands, and could probably bench press Irene Pollin once, twice, or maybe 3 times on a good day.

I think this is a missed opportunity that we're going to regret.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#884 » by sashae » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:00 pm

Three firsts for one first? Especially one coming in next year's draft, which should be deeper? No way.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#885 » by Rafael122 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:07 pm

Yeah, I wouldn't have done it either. Sorry, but we still have the chance to suck big time this season and I'm not willing to give up a Harrison Barnes type just to move up 3 spots and get Enes Kanter.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#886 » by NbdyBeatsTheWiz » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:29 pm

Yeah I would've been PO'd had we given up a future 1st as well as the 6+18. As much as I wanted to see Kanter in a Wiz uni, if doesn't hit his ceiling at an All-Star level big man I'd be willing to put money on Vesley+Singleton+a likely lotto pick next year >>>> Kanter.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#887 » by closg00 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:46 pm

Portrait of a stock-dropper.

4. Jordan Hamilton, SF, Denver Nuggets (26): Hamilton was taken by the Mavericks and, after mass confusion, ended up being part of a three-way trade that sent him to Denver. But most had the Texas swingman pegged in the 15-20 range. And when he dropped past Houston at 23, it looked like almost a certainty that Oklahoma City would snatch him up at 24.

Yet, he was passed over. There was word that Texas coach Rick Barnes warned teams that Hamilton is uncoachable and that's the reason he slipped. A couple weeks ago he was a borderline lottery pick, but on draft night he barely survived the first round.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/30222316

Interesting, did Denver do their homework or just didn't care? Teams usally get burned this way, but at 26, Denver said WTF, let's do it.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#888 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:49 pm

Black Eyed Sooz wrote:Mike Prada's take on the draft is up at bulletsforever- apparently Ted was on 106.7 saying that the price to move up was 6, 18, and next yrs 1st. Are you kidding? I would've been all over that s**t. Yes we give up Singleton, but we keep JaVale... and after all that hand-wringing back and forth about whether it would be better to have McGee vs Kanter, we get BOTH those guys playing alongside each other, with Mr. John Wall running the show.

As much talent as everyone says is in next years draft, there is no Kanter nor anyone like him- not to mention that it might get diluted down again if they raise the age limit.

I hear what people are saying about Vesely's athleticism and some of his intangibles, but why do we need another guy who can't rebound, can't shoot, has bad hands, and could probably bench press Irene Pollin once, twice, or maybe 3 times on a good day.

I think this is a missed opportunity that we're going to regret.

The question would be - what would have been the protection on next year's 1st? If it was unprotected, I probably wouldn't have made that trade. If it was top 10 protected, I definitely would have made it.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#889 » by Rafael122 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:51 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Black Eyed Sooz wrote:Mike Prada's take on the draft is up at bulletsforever- apparently Ted was on 106.7 saying that the price to move up was 6, 18, and next yrs 1st. Are you kidding? I would've been all over that s**t. Yes we give up Singleton, but we keep JaVale... and after all that hand-wringing back and forth about whether it would be better to have McGee vs Kanter, we get BOTH those guys playing alongside each other, with Mr. John Wall running the show.

As much talent as everyone says is in next years draft, there is no Kanter nor anyone like him- not to mention that it might get diluted down again if they raise the age limit.

I hear what people are saying about Vesely's athleticism and some of his intangibles, but why do we need another guy who can't rebound, can't shoot, has bad hands, and could probably bench press Irene Pollin once, twice, or maybe 3 times on a good day.

I think this is a missed opportunity that we're going to regret.

The question would be - what would have been the protection on next year's 1st? If it was unprotected, I probably wouldn't have made that trade. If it was top 10 protected, I definitely would have made it.


Just bad management when you trade future picks. Look at the Clippers, they traded their pick, the top overall pick just to get rid of Baron Davis' salary. Wouldn't have done it if it was top 10 protected, lottery protected, etc. Too much of a risk in my view.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#890 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:53 pm

closg00 wrote:Portrait of a stock-dropper.

4. Jordan Hamilton, SF, Denver Nuggets (26): Hamilton was taken by the Mavericks and, after mass confusion, ended up being part of a three-way trade that sent him to Denver. But most had the Texas swingman pegged in the 15-20 range. And when he dropped past Houston at 23, it looked like almost a certainty that Oklahoma City would snatch him up at 24.

Yet, he was passed over. There was word that Texas coach Rick Barnes warned teams that Hamilton is uncoachable and that's the reason he slipped. A couple weeks ago he was a borderline lottery pick, but on draft night he barely survived the first round.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/30222316

Interesting, did Denver do their homework or just didn't care? Teams usally get burned this way, but at 26, Denver said WTF, let's do it.

That's interesting on Hamilton. I'd never read anything bad about his attitude, but as I've mentioned a couple a times, watching Texas - I had bad vibes about his tude and his temper.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#891 » by 80sballboy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:57 pm

pineappleheadindc wrote:Image

I *think* this is her from a Facebook profile that's since been taken down. (Used Yahoo cache for it).


Yeah, I was going by that Prada guy. Great info. Right first name, wrong last name. Much more attractive girl.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#892 » by Jay81 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:06 pm

3 potential lottery picks(6,18 and a 1st next year) for Kanter. No Thanks. Lebron or Wade yes...

what if those 3 picks would of been Harrison Barnes, Vesely and Singelton for Kanter?
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#893 » by fishercob » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:51 pm

Good morning, ladies. I hope you all had a wonderful draft night. I was a little down last night, but I think that had less to do with our draft than the realization that we're going to be without the NBA for a long time. I used to be an "everything" sports fan, but over the past several years my interests have narrowed to the NBA and the Wiz. I guess I'll start watching more college ball and maybe some football again for a bit.

Anyhow, I want to echo thoughts of several different people here; my apologies for not crediting you individually.

Firstly, we're building -- no, RE-building -- an identity. For years, we decried this team as a no-defense, no killer instinct, style over substance, jumpshooting puddle of mediocrity. Looking at who we've added the past two years, it's no secret that overhauling the culture was priority one. Firstly, no one can accuse us of being a team of (good) jumpshooters :-). Seriously, we've got snarl now. We've got nasty. We've got defensive pride. We've got foxhole guys.

Teams are not going to look forward to playing us. Even if they're going to beat us a lot because we're not there offensively yet, we're going to get up in you and then we're going to get up further in you. You're going to have to go back to the bench and explain to the brothers why some white boy named Jan dunked on you. You're going to have to look and Booker and Singleton in the eye and know that they'd sooner die than give up an easy rebound or driving lane. You're going to get posterized -- maybe Vesely, or McGee or Wall, or Booker, but there's a decent chance someone in your own locker room will snicker at you for having nuts on your forehead. You're going to need some extra time with the trainers after Seraphin and Booker and Singleton give you body blows all night. You're going to get frustrated looking for easy passing lanes because there are going to be limbs frickin everywhere.

Long term, it's hard to imagine Mack, Crawford, Booker, Seraphin, Singleton and Vesely (not to mention Young, Blatche, McGee) all here in three years. So what? Teams will always want guys that play the way they do. If we're prepping a consolidation or a fit trade, we're going to hear "nah, I just don't have a need for a guy like that."

As to the Vesely pick itself? Sure, I'd have rather had Enes. But he wasn't available and I'm cool with the assertion that the price was too high. Enes is an intriguing piece, but given where we are I'm in no way comfortable saying he's worth giving up Singleton and whomever out of the ballyhooed '12 draft class. And given who else was actually on the board and went between Vesely and Singleton, I really cannot complain.

So now comes the hard part -- waiting to see these guys develop. Who knows how long it will be until we see them on the floor together.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#894 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:57 pm

Black Eyed Sooz wrote:Mike Prada's take on the draft is up at bulletsforever- apparently Ted was on 106.7 saying that the price to move up was 6, 18, and next yrs 1st. Are you kidding? I would've been all over that s**t. Yes we give up Singleton, but we keep JaVale... and after all that hand-wringing back and forth about whether it would be better to have McGee vs Kanter, we get BOTH those guys playing alongside each other, with Mr. John Wall running the show.

As much talent as everyone says is in next years draft, there is no Kanter nor anyone like him- not to mention that it might get diluted down again if they raise the age limit.

I hear what people are saying about Vesely's athleticism and some of his intangibles, but why do we need another guy who can't rebound, can't shoot, has bad hands, and could probably bench press Irene Pollin once, twice, or maybe 3 times on a good day.

I think this is a missed opportunity that we're going to regret.



Oh I couldn't disagree more. That's an insane demand in my book. Insane. Next year's draft is at worst, going to be twice is good as this one, and we are highly unlikely in any scenario to have a pick any lower than 10th to 12th in that very deep draft and more likely 5th to 8th. To give up a pick that high, as well as 6th and 18th this year (when this year's value was definitively at 18) for a player that's always there in virtually any draft between 3 and 10. It just seems insane to me. It's underselling the hell out of what we got, and overvaluing the hell out of Williams.

Lastly, i don't think we necessairly closed out anyone next year, I am working under the presumption that this team still views itself as Wall, and guys on audition, with only McGee as having a clearly defined role in the future editions of the play. Everybody else is a hopeful option, i have a lot of hopes for all of them, but if we have access to a once a decade talent who plays any position other than PG, I'm sure we'll pull the trigger. As great as i think the last two drafts were, and the trades we have made recently, we have no sure fire studs save Wall. I dont think any avenue is closed quite yet for draft day 2012, though I would agree that the team would likely be leaning someway, it will be a lean, rather than a definiitive move.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#895 » by GhostsOfGil » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:59 pm

Jay81 wrote:3 potential lottery picks(6,18 and a 1st next year) for Kanter. No Thanks. Lebron or Wade yes...

what if those 3 picks would of been Harrison Barnes, Vesely and Singelton for Kanter?


im not saying this is a good trade but i seriously dont get the infatuation this board has with barnes
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#896 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:04 pm

NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:Yeah I would've been PO'd had we given up a future 1st as well as the 6+18. As much as I wanted to see Kanter in a Wiz uni, if doesn't hit his ceiling at an All-Star level big man I'd be willing to put money on Vesley+Singleton+a likely lotto pick next year >>>> Kanter.


I haven't heard anyone anywhere suggesting Kantner is going to be anything better than good at the next level. His ceiling seems to be universally seen as "sub all star good". That is borderline not good enough at 6, let alone not good enough for 6, 18 and a probable top 5-10 in a great future draft that could be higher (just ask the clippers about how wise it was to include an unprotected future one in what was a salary dump deal).

Only way i would have done that trade is if it was protected next year, and if we got back a Jazz's second #1 this year, and even then i probably wouldnt have and they definitely wouldn't have. What that tells you is that they (or Minny) are insane, or they both really, really liked who they got at 2 and 3. Good for them. I sure as hell didnt like either of those options that much.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#897 » by Rafael122 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:08 pm

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:
Jay81 wrote:3 potential lottery picks(6,18 and a 1st next year) for Kanter. No Thanks. Lebron or Wade yes...

what if those 3 picks would of been Harrison Barnes, Vesely and Singelton for Kanter?


im not saying this is a good trade but i seriously dont get the infatuation this board has with barnes


It's not just Barnes. 2012 is the holy grail of drafts, probably the deepest draft since 2003. Why would you want to trade your pick?
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#898 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:12 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:Yeah I would've been PO'd had we given up a future 1st as well as the 6+18. As much as I wanted to see Kanter in a Wiz uni, if doesn't hit his ceiling at an All-Star level big man I'd be willing to put money on Vesley+Singleton+a likely lotto pick next year >>>> Kanter.


I haven't heard anyone anywhere suggesting Kantner is going to be anything better than good at the next level. His ceiling seems to be universally seen as "sub all star good". That is borderline not good enough at 6, let alone not good enough for 6, 18 and a probable top 5-10 in a great future draft that could be higher (just ask the clippers about how wise it was to include an unprotected future one in what was a salary dump deal).

Only way i would have done that trade is if it was protected next year, and if we got back a Jazz's second #1 this year, and even then i probably wouldnt have and they definitely wouldn't have. What that tells you is that they (or Minny) are insane, or they both really, really liked who they got at 2 and 3. Good for them. I sure as hell didnt like either of those options that much.

I gotta disagree with the Kanter assessment. I think his combo of size and skills jumps out at... me, anyway. He's one of those players that it's so obvious, you almost can't miss it. I think he's almost a sure bet to be a 20/10 player as long as he stays healthy - in the Jeff Ruland mode - except Kanter's got a better jump shot. He'll be a stud.
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#899 » by Black Eyed Sooz » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:18 pm

deleted- double post...
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Re: Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - Draft Thread 5 

Post#900 » by Black Eyed Sooz » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:20 pm

\
Jay81 wrote:3 potential lottery picks(6,18 and a 1st next year) for Kanter. No Thanks. Lebron or Wade yes...

what if those 3 picks would of been Harrison Barnes, Vesely and Singelton for Kanter?


OK- let's say we get those players... then what is our starting line-up?

PG Wall, SG Barnes (if he can guard NBA 2's), SF Singleton (OK, maybe he's a building block), PF Blatche (ha ha) or Vesely (if he gains 20 pounds, learns to shoot, and grows some hands), C McGee

Compare that to:
PG Wall, SG Crawford/Young/FA, SF figure it out later, PF Kanter, C McGee

I would choose option #2 where we grab the nasty 6-11 260 beast, and figure it out later with our perimeter guys. I guess I am not as big a fan of next years draft as everyone else. I just don't get what is so special about Harrison Barnes (for me, the next Calbert Cheaney) or any of the other multitude of wing players they have in the 2012 mocks right now. Are any of the guys coming out of high school good enough that they are saying - "if he had been in this years draft he would've gone top 3" like they were about Wall? If so, I haven't heard anything.

Not to mention that Anthony Davis, Quincy Miller and his ACL tear, Austin Rivers, etc may well get pushed from 2012 one-and dones to 2013 two-and-dones.

Maybe I am speaking from years of PTSD from losing C-Webb, Sheed, and Ben Wallace- but I feel like a potential beast like Kanter does not come around every year, and I would be willing to overpay at least somewhat to get him. I would not have offered the 2012 pick but I think I would have been willing to give it up- and I think we probably could have gotten back an additional asset ex maybe Minnesota's #20 pick.

Hopefully I will be completely wrong and Vesely will turn out to be this glorious Slavic amalgam of Dr. J, Tom Chambers, and KG that he is being hyped as by some...

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