Official Trade Thread XVIII: 1/20/12 - 5/14/12

[TGW]

Guys...I'll say it again. Involving Vesely in deals is DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. He doesn't have that much value in the trade market, so including him in trades will not get the Wizards fair value in return. It would be much more prudent to keep him and develop him since he is young, cheap, has a good work ethic, and has the potential to get better. There is no risk in keeping him until his rookie scale contract is done.

Same goes for Crawford. Both of them are cheap young players with little trade value in the open market. We are better off keeping them, despite their obvious warts, until contract time is on the horizon.

He'll never have any more value than he does right now. Develop him? Develop what? He's 21 going on 22. He has no define-able offensive skill! If he hasn't developed any as an experienced overseas professional, then what evidence is there to make you believe he's going to develop any skill now? I'm glad he has a good work ethic but so did Michael Ruffin and Jared Jeffries and they never developed any skill either.

In some cases it doesn't take years to tell someone is a complete bust. Many thought it was a terrible pick from the start. The only surprise is how little he's offered considering he was supposedly ready to step in and contribute right away.

The risk in keeping him is that he is what he is right now, which means he'll be headed back overseas in 3 or 4 years. Get something now while you can. If Vesely can help move Blatche, cut your losses and move on. And make sure Ernie doesn't get a chance to f*ck up our draft again.,

Simple question...if you were a GM of a team other than the Wizards, would you trade anything worthwhile for a Blatche/Vesely package? Would you give up anyone productive for Vesely? That's my point...more than likely if you're not willing to give up anything of value for him, neither would any other GM in this league. "Getting something now while you can" is a nice thought, but anytime that phrase is mentioned, usually that something means damn near nothing.

There is no value in trading Vesely now, because you're not...I repeat NOT...getting anything good for him. It makes way more sense to keep him, develop him, and trade him when his value is rehabbed or keep him. Trading him now because your crystal ball is telling you he's a bust who's going to return to Europe makes no sense, because more than likely all the other crystal balls out there are saying the same thing.

[BruceO]

Bogut is a great player and would do really well with us. Hes injured and wouldnt affect the tank this year. The games he played he was 7-5 while when he was out milwaukee was 7-16. They also have the number 8 Pick which is in brad beal, henson, lamb or a dropping gilchrist or barnes territory. Personally to get bogut and the pick i'm willing to swallow some bad contracts. Mcgee,Seraphin,Blatche, Rashard plus both second rounders for bogut, 8th, Sjax, Gooden and mbah ah moute

[BruceO]

Bogut is a great player and would do really well with us. Hes injured and wouldnt affect the tank this year. The games he played he was 7-5 while when he was out milwaukee was 7-16. They also have the number 8 Pick which is in brad beal, henson, lamb or a dropping gilchrist or barnes territory. Personally to get bogut and the pick i'm willing to swallow some bad contracts. Mcgee,Seraphin,Blatche, Rashard plus both second rounders for bogut, 8th, Sjax, Gooden and mbah ah moute

[BruceO]

Bogut is a great player and would do really well with us. Hes injured and wouldnt affect the tank this year. The games he played he was 7-5 while when he was out milwaukee was 7-16. They also have the number 8 Pick which is in brad beal, henson, lamb or a dropping gilchrist or barnes territory. Personally to get bogut and the pick i'm willing to swallow some bad contracts. Mcgee,Seraphin,Blatche, Rashard plus both second rounders for bogut, 8th, Sjax, Gooden and mbah ah moute

[BruceO]

Sorry it keeps double posting (using a cellphone). Bogut is out for the season and i think bucks need to rebuild. Just like we gave up rubio to dump salary they do the same with their pick. We give them rashard as part of the mix but gauranteed portion of salary is low and he expires in a season while gooden and luc are signed for 3 more for combined 10mill per. You also have sjax expecting 10 by himself and another player with a 9 mill player option. Their finances suck and we can help start the rebuild

[BruceO]

Sorry it keeps double posting (using a cellphone). Bogut is out for the season and i think bucks need to rebuild. Just like we gave up rubio to dump salary they do the same with their pick. We give them rashard as part of the mix but gauranteed portion of salary is low and he expires in a season while gooden and luc are signed for 3 more for combined 10mill per. You also have sjax expecting 10 by himself and another player with a 9 mill player option. Their finances suck and we can help start the rebuild

[Dat2U]

Guys...I'll say it again. Involving Vesely in deals is DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. He doesn't have that much value in the trade market, so including him in trades will not get the Wizards fair value in return. It would be much more prudent to keep him and develop him since he is young, cheap, has a good work ethic, and has the potential to get better. There is no risk in keeping him until his rookie scale contract is done.

Same goes for Crawford. Both of them are cheap young players with little trade value in the open market. We are better off keeping them, despite their obvious warts, until contract time is on the horizon.

He'll never have any more value than he does right now. Develop him? Develop what? He's 21 going on 22. He has no define-able offensive skill! If he hasn't developed any as an experienced overseas professional, then what evidence is there to make you believe he's going to develop any skill now? I'm glad he has a good work ethic but so did Michael Ruffin and Jared Jeffries and they never developed any skill either.

In some cases it doesn't take years to tell someone is a complete bust. Many thought it was a terrible pick from the start. The only surprise is how little he's offered considering he was supposedly ready to step in and contribute right away.

The risk in keeping him is that he is what he is right now, which means he'll be headed back overseas in 3 or 4 years. Get something now while you can. If Vesely can help move Blatche, cut your losses and move on. And make sure Ernie doesn't get a chance to f*ck up our draft again.,

Simple question...if you were a GM of a team other than the Wizards, would you trade anything worthwhile for a Blatche/Vesely package? Would you give up anyone productive for Vesely? That's my point...more than likely if you're not willing to give up anything of value for him, neither would any other GM in this league. "Getting something now while you can" is a nice thought, but anytime that phrase is mentioned, usually that something means damn near nothing.

There is no value in trading Vesely now, because you're not...I repeat NOT...getting anything good for him. It makes way more sense to keep him, develop him, and trade him when his value is rehabbed or keep him. Trading him now because your crystal ball is telling you he's a bust who's going to return to Europe makes no sense, because more than likely all the other crystal balls out there are saying the same thing.

Who says I was looking for anything good for a Vesely/Blatche package? I just said if Vesely helps get rid of Blatche then that's fine by me.

And the main reason to advocate getting rid of Vesely now is the small sample size. He hasn't played a ton. I'm not so certain some other GM wouldn't take a flier on a recent high lottery pick.

I don't know if you can rehab value of a player that can't play. Nor do I see upside in investing additional resources in a guy I don't have a ton of hope for. Move him now if he helps us dump Blatche or if in package with others were able to acquire a useful player.

[tontoz]

Speaking of Rubio i am starting to wonder if the hype around him is justified. Wall is averaging 5 more ppg while shooting better. Rubio struggles to finish at the rim. WAll gets to the rim over twice as often and still shoots 10% better at the rim than Rubio. Wall is shooting marginally better from 10 to 15 feet, marginally worse from 16-23 feet.

The only shooting advantage Rubio has is from 3. He is averaging only 1 more assist than Wall on a team with much better shooting. he seems to be a good defender but is definitely challenged offensively.

[Dat2U]

Bogut is in decline and increasingly injury prone at this stage. He sounds like a perfect veteran to add. :-/

[nate33]

Simple question...if you were a GM of a team other than the Wizards, would you trade anything worthwhile for a Blatche/Vesely package? Would you give up anyone productive for Vesely? That's my point...more than likely if you're not willing to give up anything of value for him, neither would any other GM in this league. "Getting something now while you can" is a nice thought, but anytime that phrase is mentioned, usually that something means damn near nothing.

There is no value in trading Vesely now, because you're not...I repeat NOT...getting anything good for him. It makes way more sense to keep him, develop him, and trade him when his value is rehabbed or keep him. Trading him now because your crystal ball is telling you he's a bust who's going to return to Europe makes no sense, because more than likely all the other crystal balls out there are saying the same thing.

Who says I was looking for anything good for a Vesely/Blatche package? I just said if Vesely helps get rid of Blatche then that's fine by me.

And the main reason to advocate getting rid of Vesely now is the small sample size. He hasn't played a ton. I'm not so certain some other GM wouldn't take a flier on a recent high lottery pick.

I don't know if you can rehab value of a player that can't play. Nor do I see upside in investing additional resources in a guy I don't have a ton of hope for. Move him now if he helps us dump Blatche or if in package with others were able to acquire a useful player.

I agree with both of you. Vesely is a bust and should be moved if we can get anything worthwhile in return. But unfortunately, we probably won't be able to get anything worthwhile so the best move is probably to keep him.

The biggest problem with trading Vesely is that the only thing going for him are his intangibles. And intangibles are generally the most undervalued thing when assessing the trade value of a player.

I think our best bet with Vesely is to lock him in a gym with Induveca and a crate full of protein powder and see what happens.

[mhd]

Best case scenerio for Vessley is that he turns into Varajeo lite.

[nate33]

Best case scenerio for Vessley is that he turns into Varajeo lite.

I'm thinking Noah-lite, but we're on the same wavelength. Basically, Vesely's offensive ineptitude is a crippling liability at any position on the court other than center. If Vesely can bulk up enough to play center, then he can be an impact defender while the team could hide him on offense.

Unfortunately, with his frame, it's doubtful that he'll ever be able to put on enough weight to make it happen. He'll probably add enough strength to hold his own at PF, but he'll max out there. That'll make him an above average PF on defense, and a horrible PF on offense.

In other words, he'll probably pan out to be a respectable backup PF.

[Ruzious]

Bogut is in decline and increasingly injury prone at this stage. He sounds like a perfect veteran to add. :-/

Yeah, unfortunately (being a mild Bucks fan) I think the ugly elbow injury has taken something out of Bogut's future. If we got Anthony Davis in the draft, then it might make sense to go after Bogut (with Jackson), but otherwise I'd pass. Davis is going to be so good, his presence can hide other players' weaknesses, and you can play to win now - rather than continue rebuilding. (I know somebody's going to say - How can you say that about a skinny unproven teenager - whatever, it's my opinion).

On Vesely, he's considerably thicker now than he was last year. While I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it, I think there is a reasonable chance that he does get big enough to eventually be Noah lite, and I think that hope does give him some trade value.

[LyricalRico]

If Vesely becomes "Noah-lite", we might as well keep him and make him part of a rotation. He's young and likely wouldn't be expensive to re-sign.

(Fixed! LOL)

[Ruzious]

If Noah becomes "Noah-lite", we might as well keep him and make him part of a rotation. He's young and likely wouldn't be expensive to re-sign.

You must have a very small mortgage.

[Ruzious]

Here's a trade that might not make sense, but I get creativity points. Toronto is looking to create cap space by the end of this week so they can sign RFA Wilson Chandler by some 3/1 deadline to sign free agents. First, I have to admit, my understanding of the new CBA buyout rules is superficial at best, so what I'm proposing might not work. I apologize if I'm screwing up the rules, and please correct me if you have better knowledge.

The way Toronto is supposedly looking to create the room is to trade Barbosa (expiring contract) and not take any salary back. The Wiz have only about 2 mil in cap space, but I believe they could create more space by buying out Lewis now. My understanding is that the amount they buyout Lewis for is spread out over twice the years left on the contract plus 1 (assuming no part year pro-ration) - so theoretically (since Lewis is signed for this year and next), the Wiz would spread out the buyout over 5 years - so if the buyout is for 20 mil total, it would hit the cap at 4 mil per year over 5 years).

For taking on Barbosa, I want something out of Toronto - even if it's just the right to switch picks with them after the lottery order is decided. Or remember that their pick (Jonas V) was picked right before we picked Vesely. Maybe include them in the trade. And we can include a small salary player like Jordan Crawford - who can replace Barbosa's minutes - and take back a similar type salary in Gary Forbes - or take Aaron Gray if they want a little more cap space.

[LyricalRico]

I'm not up on the finer points of the new CBA, but that aside - I'm not sure what the benefit is to the Wiz. Not criticizing, I'm just not seeing what we get out of it that's worth giving up our right to amnesty Lewis. You did mention swapping Vesely and the rights to JV, but only as a potential option. I didn't get the sense that they were part of the main deal.

As for the March 1 date, do they have to do it before then? Or is March 1 the actual last day? If it is, we could deal Nick Young to somebody with a smaller TPE and then we could try to fit Barbosa in.

Blatche+Seraphin+Crawford+TPE

for

Barbosa and Amir Johnson

Something like that? (Assuming the numbers work.)

[Ruzious]

I'm not up on the finer points of the new CBA, but that aside - I'm not sure what the benefit is to the Wiz. Not criticizing, I'm just not seeing what we get out of it that's worth giving up our right to amnesty Lewis. You did mention swapping Vesely and the rights to JV, but only as a potential option. I didn't get the sense that they were part of the main deal.

As for the March 1 date, do they have to do it before then? Or is March 1 the actual last day? If it is, we could deal Nick Young to somebody with a smaller TPE and then we could try to fit Barbosa in.

Blatche+Seraphin+Crawford+TPE

for

Barbosa and Amir Johnson

Something like that? (Assuming the numbers work.)

I'm not sure what you're not seeing, but that is a good point out about possibly freeing up space by trading Young for nothing (or for a top 60 protected 2nd round pick). I really doubt they want to trade Johnson - the one guy on their team that plays defense.

[LyricalRico]

^ Hmmm...re-read your post and now I think I get it. My issue was that I didn't want to miss out on the chance to amnesty Lewis. But if your math is correct, it's almost like we are amnestying Lewis since he'd only cost $4M against the cap. That's actually VERY interesting, especially if you consider that we could then theoretically amnesty Blatche and have even more cap space than if we'd simply amnestied Lewis.

But would TOR really swap lotto picks or give up JV just to dump Barbosa? They are already $7M under the cap, so they could dump less and still sign him (unless they plan on maxing him out, which would be ridiculous). And it wouldn't make sense for them to clear room to sign him to a Collison-like deal (with a balloon payment up front and cheaper years after that) because DEN would simply match it since Chandler is still RFA.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't get the TOR rumors to begin with, but your idea to buyout Lewis instead of waiting amnesty him is interesting. Heck, we could still do that even if we didn't trade for somebody.

[McGully Culkin]

havent messed w/ the trade machine, but would this work?

blatche to LA

for

McRoberts + filler