Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[deneem4]

But does he fit with the style of play of our center pieces???

That's the simple question when it comes to trading a good player...is the fit as valuable as the result??

Have you ever seen wall play with an athletic mobile center??
Have you even seen Beal play with a stretch 5?...
Jus because it's risky don't make it wrong...curry wouldn't be curry if David lee would have never gotten injured...why? They relied on David lee post game...but turns out they were better without it and he was still one of the better players in the lesgue...
Not comparing us to golden state at all but just using a well known example of how fit is important...Beal deserves more shots so does porter so...let's move away from the getting gortat looks to a more modern offense...we have the pieces to play chess but we're still in a checkers mindset...

Beal has a USG% of 26.2, which is a career high. He's getting plenty of shots. Gortat remains a more efficient scorer than anyone else on the team except Porter. If anyone needs more shots it's Gortat.

I accept your premise that Gortat may not be a perfect fit style-wise for a team with Wall, Beal and Porter. But you need to have a plan to acquire that ideal center before you jettison Gortat. Teams don't give away Horford/Ibaka types very often.

We don't need Gortat because of his offense we need him defensively
We are 1-6 when he's has an offensive rating over 125...
We have firepower wall beal and Porter could score 20+ every night on good efficiency with ease...

We need Gortat to be tough around the rim defensively and he's regressed from an already soft style...
Our guards and wings have to watch the pain more so than the 3 defensively and it's not because they can't stay with perimeter players or get lost on screens...
It's cause we don't have a valid rim protecter anymore we don't have no toughness down low that's y the mahinmi signing was so important and it's exposing gortat even more because ernie might have actually known this

[Meliorus]

But does he fit with the style of play of our center pieces???

That's the simple question when it comes to trading a good player...is the fit as valuable as the result??

Have you ever seen wall play with an athletic mobile center??
Have you even seen Beal play with a stretch 5?...
Jus because it's risky don't make it wrong...curry wouldn't be curry if David lee would have never gotten injured...why? They relied on David lee post game...but turns out they were better without it and he was still one of the better players in the lesgue...
Not comparing us to golden state at all but just using a well known example of how fit is important...Beal deserves more shots so does porter so...let's move away from the getting gortat looks to a more modern offense...we have the pieces to play chess but we're still in a checkers mindset...

Beal has a USG% of 26.2, which is a career high. He's getting plenty of shots. Gortat remains a more efficient scorer than anyone else on the team except Porter. If anyone needs more shots it's Gortat.

I accept your premise that Gortat may not be a perfect fit style-wise for a team with Wall, Beal and Porter. But you need to have a plan to acquire that ideal center before you jettison Gortat. Teams don't give away Horford/Ibaka types very often.

We don't need Gortat because of his offense we need him defensively
We are 1-6 when he's has an offensive rating over 125...
We have firepower wall beal and Porter could score 20+ every night on good efficiency with ease...

We need Gortat to be tough around the rim defensively and he's regressed from an already soft style...
Our guards and wings have to watch the pain more so than the 3 defensively and it's not because they can't stay with perimeter players or get lost on screens...

The thing about Gortat is that he's only getting older. People want to keep him but he's going to regress fast. Better to get a young center to raise our ceiling.

[nate33]

Our bench sucks because we tried to replicate our starters
Any fan can see that
Wall/sato = athletic non shooting point with good vision
Beal/thronton = 3 pt gunner
Porter/oubre = long energy slashing forward
Morris/Nicholson = iso pf with 3pt range
Gortat/Smith = pnr big with limited range but (fake) tough around the rim.

Our bench sucks because our bench sucks. There's no talent there. There are no shot creators and no defensive mistake-erasers.

The biggest thing our bench needs is a scoring PG who can take the pressure off youngsters like Oubre, Sato and McClellen so they can just try and blend in. The bench would be a whole lot better if we spent the money devoted to Smith and Burke on Sessions instead; and if Mahinmi was healthy. This would be a pretty solid bench:

PG Sessions
SG McClellan/Sato
SF Oubre
PF Nicholson
C Mahinmi

I rather think it's the opposite we need a scoring big that can abuse other bench bigs...Zach Randolph would be perfect
Sato/thronton/oubre/Randolph/mahinmi would be a better bench

Scoring bigs that also defend are rare. They're too expensive to be bench players. We have a scoring big on our bench in Nicholson, and he can't stay on the floor because his defense sucks so bad.

[nate33]

The thing about Gortat is that he's only getting older. People want to keep him but he's going to regress fast. Better to get a young center to raise our ceiling.

Again, I don't have a problem with trading Gortat under the premise that we need to get younger at the center spot to extend the team's window. I'm just waiting for someone to come up with a plausible trade where we acquire a young, athletic, defensive minded big man who can also run a pick-and-roll or serve as a stretch 5.

I'm not interested in the Underpants Gnome theory of team building:

1. Trade Gortat.
2. ???
3. Championship.

[nate33]

We don't need Gortat because of his offense we need him defensively
We are 1-6 when he's has an offensive rating over 125...
We have firepower wall beal and Porter could score 20+ every night on good efficiency with ease...

We need Gortat to be tough around the rim defensively and he's regressed from an already soft style...
Our guards and wings have to watch the pain more so than the 3 defensively and it's not because they can't stay with perimeter players or get lost on screens...
It's cause we don't have a valid rim protecter anymore we don't have no toughness down low that's y the mahinmi signing was so important and it's exposing gortat even more because ernie might have actually known this

Please stop. You are wrong. Dead wrong. This notion that Gortat isn't essential, or is somehow hurting the team is just plain absurd. He has the second highest on/off differential on the team.

Beal +14.0
Gortat +10.9
Porter +10.8
Morris +8.4
Wall +7.0

He also leads the team in minutes which is nuts for a center. He leads all centers in the league in minutes per game. He ranks 17th overall in minutes per game. He's 5th in the league in rebounds per game, which is pretty damn good for such a "soft" player. (He's 9th in rebound percentage.) The man has been a workhorse.

Gortat may not be Shaq in his prime, but there are so many other problems on this team that are far, far more pressing than Marcin Gortat.

[Meliorus]

The thing about Gortat is that he's only getting older. People want to keep him but he's going to regress fast. Better to get a young center to raise our ceiling.

Again, I don't have a problem with trading Gortat under the premise that we need to get younger at the center spot to extend the team's window. I'm just waiting for someone to come up with a plausible trade where we acquire a young, athletic, defensive minded big man who can also run a pick-and-roll or serve as a stretch 5.

I'm not interested in the Underpants Gnome theory of team building:

1. Trade Gortat.
2. ???
3. Championship.

Probably Nerlens Noel. If Gortat can somehow maintain his current athleticism until he is 35/36, then we don't need to trade him. Doubtful that will happen though.

Also, interesting thing is Wall hasn't had a big man he can throw reliable alley oops too since McGee.

[LonZoBallin]

Gortat and Porter for Jonas and Carroll? Who says no?

[Meliorus]

Gortat and Porter for Jonas and Carroll? Who says no?

Us.

[pcbothwel]

Alright guys, our pick will probably never project to be higher. So here it goes:
2017 1st with top 5 protection, Smith, Nicholson, and Burke for:
Gallo and Beasley

Wall / Sato
Beal / Beasley
Otto / Oubre
Gallo / Morris
Gortat / Mahinmi

Gallo and Porter are a great match as forwards as they are both hybrids, but Gallo has issue with lateral quickness (Defending SF's) and rebounding. And Porter has issue with strength (Defending PF's) and getting to the line.

We lose our pick, but if you look at what this does for our team and the next 20 games, I see no reason why we cant be about .500 around the new year and a top 6 seed a Playoff time. Sato will settle into his role and Mahinmi will be healthy. That is the 2nd best starting 5 in the East and while the Bench isnt great, its young and we can stagger the rotation so Otto/Gallo/Gortat can work with the 2nd unit.

Also, Mahinmi has a high IQ defensively and Oubre/Morris can be absolute nightmares as man defenders. So even if all backups are in, we can slow the game down to a grind to minimize the damage while the starters rest.

[nate33]

Alright guys, our pick will probably never project to be higher. So here it goes:
2017 1st with top 5 protection, Smith, Nicholson, and Burke for:
Gallo and Beasley

Wall / Sato
Beal / Beasley
Otto / Oubre
Gallo / Morris
Gortat / Mahinmi

Gallo and Porter are a great match as forwards as they are both hybrids, but Gallo has issue with lateral quickness (Defending SF's) and rebounding. And Porter has issue with strength (Defending PF's) and getting to the line.

We lose our pick, but if you look at what this does for our team and the next 20 games, I see no reason why we cant be about .500 around the new year and a top 6 seed a Playoff time. Sato will settle into his role and Mahinmi will be healthy. That is the 2nd best starting 5 in the East and while the Bench isnt great, its young and we can stagger the rotation so Otto/Gallo/Gortat can work with the 2nd unit.

Also, Mahinmi has a high IQ defensively and Oubre/Morris can be absolute nightmares as man defenders. So even if all backups are in, we can slow the game down to a grind to minimize the damage while the starters rest.

Gallo has a player option this summer and will probably exercise it given the amount of money floating around. I'm not trading a lotto pick for a 60-game rental of a player. I also don't want to trade a lotto pick for someone who is 28 years old and hasn't managed to play 60 or more games in a season since 2012.

[nate33]

Gortat and Porter for Jonas and Carroll? Who says no?

Porter is pretty damn close to untouchable.

[pcbothwel]

Alright guys, our pick will probably never project to be higher. So here it goes:
2017 1st with top 5 protection, Smith, Nicholson, and Burke for:
Gallo and Beasley

Wall / Sato
Beal / Beasley
Otto / Oubre
Gallo / Morris
Gortat / Mahinmi

Gallo and Porter are a great match as forwards as they are both hybrids, but Gallo has issue with lateral quickness (Defending SF's) and rebounding. And Porter has issue with strength (Defending PF's) and getting to the line.

We lose our pick, but if you look at what this does for our team and the next 20 games, I see no reason why we cant be about .500 around the new year and a top 6 seed a Playoff time. Sato will settle into his role and Mahinmi will be healthy. That is the 2nd best starting 5 in the East and while the Bench isnt great, its young and we can stagger the rotation so Otto/Gallo/Gortat can work with the 2nd unit.

Also, Mahinmi has a high IQ defensively and Oubre/Morris can be absolute nightmares as man defenders. So even if all backups are in, we can slow the game down to a grind to minimize the damage while the starters rest.

Gallo has a player option this summer and will probably exercise it given the amount of money floating around. I'm not trading a lotto pick for a 60-game rental of a player. I also don't want to trade a lotto pick for someone who is 28 years old and hasn't managed to play 60 or more games in a season since 2012.

Nate, Denver needs upside in the trade which is what you state. We trade a lotto pick in a good draft for an above average player that cant stay healthy and is a FA-to-be. If that happens, yes, we lose the trade but our upside is:

We trade a late teen/early 20's pick for a 28 y/o that fits perfect next to Otto and a 20 y/o rookie that was the 19th pick.
Also, we dump Smith and Nicholson. That saves us 11-12M each of the next two years.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

gortat playing a career high minutes is bound to fail, he goes down and its a smith/nicholson center rotation

ernie better start churning up the trade machine

I wouldn't mind seeing Gortat put up career stats but only play 30-50 games. (IF YOU'RE READING or have a family/friend read; you're my FAVORITE Wizard, Marcin Gortat!)

I would like to see the best of both Nicholson and Smith. (I'm sure we're seeing the worst, now).

[Dat2U]

Alright guys, our pick will probably never project to be higher. So here it goes:
2017 1st with top 5 protection, Smith, Nicholson, and Burke for:
Gallo and Beasley

Wall / Sato
Beal / Beasley
Otto / Oubre
Gallo / Morris
Gortat / Mahinmi

Gallo and Porter are a great match as forwards as they are both hybrids, but Gallo has issue with lateral quickness (Defending SF's) and rebounding. And Porter has issue with strength (Defending PF's) and getting to the line.

We lose our pick, but if you look at what this does for our team and the next 20 games, I see no reason why we cant be about .500 around the new year and a top 6 seed a Playoff time. Sato will settle into his role and Mahinmi will be healthy. That is the 2nd best starting 5 in the East and while the Bench isnt great, its young and we can stagger the rotation so Otto/Gallo/Gortat can work with the 2nd unit.

Also, Mahinmi has a high IQ defensively and Oubre/Morris can be absolute nightmares as man defenders. So even if all backups are in, we can slow the game down to a grind to minimize the damage while the starters rest.

Gallo has a player option this summer and will probably exercise it given the amount of money floating around. I'm not trading a lotto pick for a 60-game rental of a player. I also don't want to trade a lotto pick for someone who is 28 years old and hasn't managed to play 60 or more games in a season since 2012.

Nate, Denver needs upside in the trade which is what you state. We trade a lotto pick in a good draft for an above average player that cant stay healthy and is a FA-to-be. If that happens, yes, we lose the trade but our upside is:

We trade a late teen/early 20's pick for a 28 y/o that fits perfect next to Otto and a 20 y/o rookie that was the 19th pick.
Also, we dump Smith and Nicholson. That saves us 11-12M each of the next two years.

1. Gallo is a SF. He's not a good rebounder. He's fragile. Your asking him to play a physical position. We'd get killed on the boards and there's no bet he'd last a whole season there.

2. Like Nate said he's a rental. There's no guarantee we could keep him. If we do, it will cost us an arm and a leg... again for a guy with a real questionable injury history.

3. Were 6-12. That pick is looking pretty valuable at the moment. It's no sure bet that a fragile SF is going to stay healthy and excel at the PF position to help us even get to the point where were playing at a .500 clip. We'd be one injury away from disaster AND no pick at that point.

4. Dumping Smith/Nicholson isn't worth trading the pick either. While worthless players the contracts are relatively small to some of the other deals out there. We don't create any cap room by dumping them.. We should be more concerned with adding talent instead of dumping salaries.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have a feeling if the Wizards remain in the 6-12 draft range; THIS SEASON THEY GET A TOP THREE.

I could see the Wizards at one, two, or three; IF the GM doesn't trade the pick.

[payitforward]

I'm not interested in the Underpants Gnome theory of team building:

1. Trade Gortat.
2. ???
3. Championship.

LOL

[gambitx777]

Our bench sucks because our bench sucks. There's no talent there. There are no shot creators and no defensive mistake-erasers.

The biggest thing our bench needs is a scoring PG who can take the pressure off youngsters like Oubre, Sato and McClellen so they can just try and blend in. The bench would be a whole lot better if we spent the money devoted to Smith and Burke on Sessions instead; and if Mahinmi was healthy. This would be a pretty solid bench:

PG Sessions
SG McClellan/Sato
SF Oubre
PF Nicholson
C Mahinmi

i would call the bucks they really could use some help at back up point guard and center.
Do mahinmi, and burke and a 2018 uprotected first for henson, snell, and filler as needed. they might bite on that, since henson is in the dog house and the odd man out on that team with all the young bigs, and snell has not been valued much since getting there. the first might get this deal done. fixed out wing depth and defence and fixes our big depth. we can roll out ochifu for center minutes and see if he can hang and if not we sign another guy off the street till we find someone who can hang. and we commit to tomas at the point for better or worse and hope he gets his shooting figured out. We can always cut house, thornton, or stretch smith, if we need to sign another Center or PG

[deneem4]

We don't need Gortat because of his offense we need him defensively
We are 1-6 when he's has an offensive rating over 125...
We have firepower wall beal and Porter could score 20+ every night on good efficiency with ease...

We need Gortat to be tough around the rim defensively and he's regressed from an already soft style...
Our guards and wings have to watch the pain more so than the 3 defensively and it's not because they can't stay with perimeter players or get lost on screens...
It's cause we don't have a valid rim protecter anymore we don't have no toughness down low that's y the mahinmi signing was so important and it's exposing gortat even more because ernie might have actually known this

Please stop. You are wrong. Dead wrong. This notion that Gortat isn't essential, or is somehow hurting the team is just plain absurd. He has the second highest on/off differential on the team.

Beal +14.0
Gortat +10.9
Porter +10.8
Morris +8.4
Wall +7.0

He also leads the team in minutes which is nuts for a center. He leads all centers in the league in minutes per game. He ranks 17th overall in minutes per game. He's 5th in the league in rebounds per game, which is pretty damn good for such a "soft" player. (He's 9th in rebound percentage.) The man has been a workhorse.

Gortat may not be Shaq in his prime, but there are so many other problems on this team that are far, far more pressing than Marcin Gortat.

Jason smith is literally the answer
We have 2 centers gortat and smith...gortat should have the highest on/off considering Smith is his only replacement ...
He leads in minutes because Jason smith doesn't deserve any...
He gets so many rebounds because he's 17th overall in minutes in the league and teams literally worry more about our transition offense than getting offensive boards...
The eye test shows that...our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor...it's like the same or better...

Gortat is good but he's not good for us...

[payitforward]

The one thing we absolutely must not do is trade our R1 pick this year. We are a bad team -- worse than our record not better (we've played more games at home than on the road). In a year when the EC looks to be much improved.

Only 3 teams in the league have a worse road record than ours, and we've got 33 road games left to play.

Of the 5 teams we've beaten at home 4 of them have combined to go 12-34 so far on the road. Not much evidence of our quality in those wins either.

We are very low on productive players. Even if Beal's turnaround is the real deal (we're seeing the real Beal), we are still low. We can't afford to lose any of the good players we have in a trade. And no one is going to trade for the stiffs we've brought on in the last year, starting w/ the brain-dead trade for Morris.

[Dat2U]

Our bench sucks because our bench sucks. There's no talent there. There are no shot creators and no defensive mistake-erasers.

The biggest thing our bench needs is a scoring PG who can take the pressure off youngsters like Oubre, Sato and McClellen so they can just try and blend in. The bench would be a whole lot better if we spent the money devoted to Smith and Burke on Sessions instead; and if Mahinmi was healthy. This would be a pretty solid bench:

PG Sessions
SG McClellan/Sato
SF Oubre
PF Nicholson
C Mahinmi

i would call the bucks they really could use some help at back up point guard and center.
Do mahinmi, and burke and a 2018 uprotected first for henson, snell, and filler as needed. they might bite on that, since henson is in the dog house and the odd man out on that team with all the young bigs, and snell has not been valued much since getting there. the first might get this deal done. fixed out wing depth and defence and fixes our big depth. we can roll out ochifu for center minutes and see if he can hang and if not we sign another guy off the street till we find someone who can hang. and we commit to tomas at the point for better or worse and hope he gets his shooting figured out. We can always cut house, thornton, or stretch smith, if we need to sign another Center or PG

Wow, yes, let's trade an unprotected pick for slop. I wonder why Henson is in the doghouse. Could it be because he's not very good? That is a disgustingly bad trade.