Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[Kanyewest]

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Ibaka to help of the bench?

I only see two trade scenarios for Ibaka.

1. We swap Mahinmi straight up for Ibaka. It would be a 30-game rental for us, but Ibaka is an upgrade over Mahinmi, and it gets us out of Mahinmi's long term deal, helping us avoid the luxtax. In this scenario, we have no intention of resigning Ibaka so it makes no sense for us to include any future picks, other than maybe a 2nd rounder. I have to assume Orlando can do better than that though.

2. We trade Mahinmi and a 2017 pick for Ibaka, but only under the pretense that Ted is willing to pay a significant luxtax penalty. As it stands now, we project to be maybe $2M over the luxtax. This deal frees up another $18M in cap room (Mahinmi's $16.6M deal plus the pick) to devote to Ibaka's new contract. His new contract might be $25M or so, so that would put us about $9M over the luxtax. Maybe a 3-way is worked out where we give Jason Smith away for raw cap space to reduce that penalty. Then we'd be more like $4M over the luxtax with the following team:

PG Wall/Sato
SG Beal/McClellan
SF Porter/Oubre
PF Ibaka/Morris
C Gortat/Ibaka

That's pretty damn good.

EDIT: On second thought, I'm not interested. Ibaka doesn't really look to be that good anymore. His box score numbers are lousy, though he has always had a better on-the-court impact that his box score suggests. However, this year, even his RPM numbers look pretty weak. It's hard to find a statistical rationale to prove that he is better than Morris.

Of course, that doesn't account for the John Wall effect. He does shoot well from 3-point range and Wall will get him more looks.

Yeah, I also suspect Ibaka's numbers would go up playing alongside Wall. IIRC, Ibaka's numbers were sub-par whenever Westbrook was out.

[Kanyewest]

maybe we could steal will barton for a 2nd. we acquired Okafor, Ariza for a bad contract and a 2nd, Andre Miller for a 2nd, Sessions for Andre Miller....

Think again on that Okariza trade. We had a $13m buyout on Rashard Lewis. Instead of buying him out, we traded him for:

1. Okafor -- @$28m in salary obligation, every penny of which we paid (see below). He played 2000 minutes for our (at the time quite bad) team, & then had a career-ending injury. He had been injured previously, btw, as many of us who hated this trade pointed out back then.

2. Ariza -- $14m in salary obligation; he played two years and left as a FA. Personally, I'd have been happy to acquire Ariza on his own in a different deal. & I'd have wanted to keep him too, which - in fairness - we did.

That R2 pick we sent along with Lewis was the #46 in 2012. I was very high on Kyle O'Quinn; he's the guy I'd have snapped up (he wound up going #49, so he'd have been available).

After Okafor was injured, we had no one to start at Center. Ernie had no back-up plan. Hence, we were stuck & made an opening-day trade under duress. We acquired Marcin Gortat. Now I love Gortat: I wanted him in 2010 when he was expiring at Orlando. He's a good player. But there is a difference, a big one, between a good player & a good trade for that player.

Phoenix was looking to trade Gortat, b/c he was expiring & they'd just drafted Alex Len, whom they saw as their Center of the future, & also traded for Miles Plumlee. Under ordinary circumstances, we'd have been able to sign the following Summer w/o giving up any asset at all.

Instead, because Ernie had left us stuck, Phoenix got us to hold our socks in that trade. We got a one-season Gortat rental, & we also had to take on every single bad contract on the Suns' roster -- about $6-7m worth -- all of which players we proceeded to waive immediately, paying all their salary obligations! Oh, & we gave our R1 pick in 2014 in the deal as well.

In short, the Okariza trade cost us $42m, Kyle O'Quinn, & a mid-R1 pick (how about Clint Capela or Nikola Jokic?). It got us 2000 minutes of Okafor, 2 years of Ariza then bye bye, & 1 season of Marcin Gortat. It was an awful move.

The Suns would have re-signed Gortat because they turned out to be a competitive team. Vegas over/under for their win total was 19.5 wins but actually finished in 9th. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/28/5037930/vegas-odds-nba-over-unders-2013-14

They would have been better served re-signing someone like Gortat instead of someone like Isiah Thomas considering they already had Dragic and Bledsoe. The Suns had to overpay Tyson Chandler to sign with them a few seasons later. In retrospect, not a good trade at all for the Suns.

[NatP4]

maybe we could steal will barton for a 2nd. we acquired Okafor, Ariza for a bad contract and a 2nd, Andre Miller for a 2nd, Sessions for Andre Miller....

Think again on that Okariza trade. We had a $13m buyout on Rashard Lewis. Instead of buying him out, we traded him for:

1. Okafor -- @$28m in salary obligation, every penny of which we paid (see below). He played 2000 minutes for our (at the time quite bad) team, & then had a career-ending injury. He had been injured previously, btw, as many of us who hated this trade pointed out back then.

2. Ariza -- $14m in salary obligation; he played two years and left as a FA. Personally, I'd have been happy to acquire Ariza on his own in a different deal. & I'd have wanted to keep him too, which - in fairness - we did.

That R2 pick we sent along with Lewis was the #46 in 2012. I was very high on Kyle O'Quinn; he's the guy I'd have snapped up (he wound up going #49, so he'd have been available).

After Okafor was injured, we had no one to start at Center. Ernie had no back-up plan. Hence, we were stuck & made an opening-day trade under duress. We acquired Marcin Gortat. Now I love Gortat: I wanted him in 2010 when he was expiring at Orlando. He's a good player. But there is a difference, a big one, between a good player & a good trade for that player.

Phoenix was looking to trade Gortat, b/c he was expiring & they'd just drafted Alex Len, whom they saw as their Center of the future, & also traded for Miles Plumlee. Under ordinary circumstances, we'd have been able to sign the following Summer w/o giving up any asset at all.

Instead, because Ernie had left us stuck, Phoenix got us to hold our socks in that trade. We got a one-season Gortat rental, & we also had to take on every single bad contract on the Suns' roster -- about $6-7m worth -- all of which players we proceeded to waive immediately, paying all their salary obligations! Oh, & we gave our R1 pick in 2014 in the deal as well.

In short, the Okariza trade cost us $42m, Kyle O'Quinn, & a mid-R1 pick (how about Clint Capela or Nikola Jokic?). It got us 2000 minutes of Okafor, 2 years of Ariza then bye bye, & 1 season of Marcin Gortat. It was an awful move.

The Suns would have re-signed Gortat because they turned out to be a competitive team. Vegas over/under for their win total was 19.5 wins but actually finished in 9th. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/28/5037930/vegas-odds-nba-over-unders-2013-14

They would have been better served re-signing someone like Gortat instead of someone like Isiah Thomas considering they already had Dragic and Bledsoe. The Suns had to overpay Tyson Chandler to sign with them a few seasons later. In retrospect, not a good trade at all for the Suns.

Pifs analysis of this trade completely ignores any intangible or culture shift that Oak contributed to, same as Ariza(who was our 2nd best player the following year when we made the playoffs), but then assumes that we would've drafted our starting center of the future with the late 1st which turned into TJ Warren I think? I'm sorry, but you cannot pin a career ending neck injury on Ernie, we would've made the playoffs with Okafor healthy that season easily.

I wouldn't trade what Okafor and Ariza brought to this team in exchange for Kyle O Quinn. That Gortat pick would probably have turned into Steven Adams though, which would be nice, but is he even better than Gortat? is it really worth arguing anyways? Isn't gortat on one of the more team friendly deals in the league anyways?

its a whole lotta hindsight 20/20 nitpicking if you ask me. Of course PIF could see the future and would've avoided every injury ever.

[ozthegap]

Trade for Ezeli? Doesn't help this summer's cap situation but next. Maybe the blazers will free us for Nicholson since Ezeli is basically done in the NBA.

[Dat2U]

Think again on that Okariza trade. We had a $13m buyout on Rashard Lewis. Instead of buying him out, we traded him for:

1. Okafor -- @$28m in salary obligation, every penny of which we paid (see below). He played 2000 minutes for our (at the time quite bad) team, & then had a career-ending injury. He had been injured previously, btw, as many of us who hated this trade pointed out back then.

2. Ariza -- $14m in salary obligation; he played two years and left as a FA. Personally, I'd have been happy to acquire Ariza on his own in a different deal. & I'd have wanted to keep him too, which - in fairness - we did.

That R2 pick we sent along with Lewis was the #46 in 2012. I was very high on Kyle O'Quinn; he's the guy I'd have snapped up (he wound up going #49, so he'd have been available).

After Okafor was injured, we had no one to start at Center. Ernie had no back-up plan. Hence, we were stuck & made an opening-day trade under duress. We acquired Marcin Gortat. Now I love Gortat: I wanted him in 2010 when he was expiring at Orlando. He's a good player. But there is a difference, a big one, between a good player & a good trade for that player.

Phoenix was looking to trade Gortat, b/c he was expiring & they'd just drafted Alex Len, whom they saw as their Center of the future, & also traded for Miles Plumlee. Under ordinary circumstances, we'd have been able to sign the following Summer w/o giving up any asset at all.

Instead, because Ernie had left us stuck, Phoenix got us to hold our socks in that trade. We got a one-season Gortat rental, & we also had to take on every single bad contract on the Suns' roster -- about $6-7m worth -- all of which players we proceeded to waive immediately, paying all their salary obligations! Oh, & we gave our R1 pick in 2014 in the deal as well.

In short, the Okariza trade cost us $42m, Kyle O'Quinn, & a mid-R1 pick (how about Clint Capela or Nikola Jokic?). It got us 2000 minutes of Okafor, 2 years of Ariza then bye bye, & 1 season of Marcin Gortat. It was an awful move.

The Suns would have re-signed Gortat because they turned out to be a competitive team. Vegas over/under for their win total was 19.5 wins but actually finished in 9th. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/28/5037930/vegas-odds-nba-over-unders-2013-14

They would have been better served re-signing someone like Gortat instead of someone like Isiah Thomas considering they already had Dragic and Bledsoe. The Suns had to overpay Tyson Chandler to sign with them a few seasons later. In retrospect, not a good trade at all for the Suns.

Pifs analysis of this trade completely ignores any intangible or culture shift that Oak contributed to, same as Ariza(who was our 2nd best player the following year when we made the playoffs), but then assumes that we would've drafted our starting center of the future with the late 1st which turned into TJ Warren I think? I'm sorry, but you cannot pin a career ending neck injury on Ernie, we would've made the playoffs with Okafor healthy that season easily.

I wouldn't trade what Okafor and Ariza brought to this team in exchange for Kyle O Quinn. That Gortat pick would probably have turned into Steven Adams though, which would be nice, but is he even better than Gortat? is it really worth arguing anyways? Isn't gortat on one of the more team friendly deals in the league anyways?

its a whole lotta hindsight 20/20 nitpicking if you ask me. Of course PIF could see the future and would've avoided every injury ever.

It was alot more than O'Quinn we gave in the OkAriza acquisition. The opportunity cost was the cap space we gave up, the ability to take on salary and/or picks from teams trying to create space.

And I think you can blame Ernie for not foreseeing Okafor's injury... considering Okafor's extensive injury history specifically his back problems which derailed a once promising career. I remember a lot of handwringing on this very board (including me) because of Okafor's past injury issues when the trade was made. It should have not been a surprise to anyone he suffered a career ending injury less than a year later which forced us to give a 1st for Gortat.

As for contributing to the culture shift, we won 29 games that season... we won exactly 5 games prior to Wall coming back from injury in mid-January so I'd say your significantly overstating Okafor's impact. Wall growing up and becoming a more mature player was what happened. I seem to remember Ariza dogging it that first season too. If you want to give EG credit, the Gortat deal saved his butt and the 13-14 season. Gortat offered an offensive skillset Okafor could not provide. Gortat was significantly better offensively than Emeka. I don't remember seeing many Wall/Okafor P&Rs. I remember cringing over a lot of Okafor mid-range jumpers. I don't know that we make the playoffs or beat the Bulls with Okafor instead of Gortat who played at a very high level from the all-star break on that season.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think you're overrating the value of our cap space following the expiration of Shard's deal Dat. We had very little free agency appeal. And if you look at the unbalanced trades that happened during the summer of 2012 up until that deadline, there weren't many deals that would have been as impactful or sensible. Kyle Korver is the only interesting one I see and we probably could have found a way to trade for him even after the Okafor/Ariza deal. The other good candidate was Ryan Anderson but he was a sign and trade.

Shard's expiring was best used to get quality rotation players, and that's what we got in Okafor and Ariza. And Okafor's expiring was one of the keys to getting Gortat, which has turned out to be a critical trade. Make no mistake, the key to us being able to sign Gortat in free agency in the summer of 2014 was the fact he had played with us that season. PIF completely ignores that in his analysis of the Gortat trade. He wouldn't have picked a lottery Wizards team over San Antonio or Miami. He wouldn't have known he liked playing with John Wall, and the Wizards wouldn't have been able to offer him a fifth year. Even with those advantages, we still almost lost him to the Spurs and Heat. Trading for Gortat means we got six years of him, not one.

[Error Afflalo]

So, apparently the blazers are desperate to trade Ezeli.
I wounder if they would take Mahinmi and a 2018 second or a 2019 first for Ezeli and Aminu? Ezeli is only garunteed 1 mill next year and Aminu would be a great back up for Morris. They are pretty thin at center? IDK. Could be something there.

I doubt the Blazers want Mahinmi considering they likely moved Plumlee to avoid paying him big money this offseason. They gave out some horrible contracts last summer. Turner has been a disaster. Crabbe, while good, is not producing at a $19 million/year level. Those deals will sink them, which is a shame because Lillard and McCollum are fun to watch.

[nate33]

I think you're overrating the value of our cap space following the expiration of Shard's deal Dat. We had very little free agency appeal. And if you look at the unbalanced trades that happened during the summer of 2012 up until that deadline, there weren't many deals that would have been as impactful or sensible. Kyle Korver is the only interesting one I see and we probably could have found a way to trade for him even after the Okafor/Ariza deal. The other good candidate was Ryan Anderson but he was a sign and trade.

Shard's expiring was best used to get quality rotation players, and that's what we got in Okafor and Ariza. And Okafor's expiring was one of the keys to getting Gortat, which has turned out to be a critical trade. Make no mistake, the key to us being able to sign Gortat in free agency in the summer of 2014 was the fact he had played with us that season. PIF completely ignores that in his analysis of the Gortat trade. He wouldn't have picked a lottery Wizards team over San Antonio or Miami. He wouldn't have known he liked playing with John Wall, and the Wizards wouldn't have been able to offer him a fifth year. Even with those advantages, we still almost lost him to the Spurs and Heat. Trading for Gortat means we got six years of him, not one.

The most attractive free agent available with that cap room Ryan Anderson. Orlando traded him for Gustavo Ayon because they knew they couldn't have afforded his new contract. We could have made the same deal with a guy like Trevor Booker as filler. As it turned out, Ryan Anderson had a year-and-a-half of good play, and then a bad back injury that resulted in a lost season. He never quite regained his form afterwards. Meanwhile, Ariza ended up having a career year in Washington.

I was against the Ariza/Okafor trade at the time, but in retrospect, I think the likely alternatives would not have turned out much better.

[payitforward]

Well pif I'm going off the idea that they might move Biyombo at the dead line. In that case moving Jeff green and zimmerman for Mahinmi and a second makes some sense. Or mahinmi and anything else for Ibaka if they don't get any other takers. Obviously I see that they probably would not want mahinmi if they don't move Byiombo or Vucivic. But if they do, it would make a little sense. Mahinmi is on a slightly cheaper deal than Biyambo, and while a little older is in my opinion the better player.
They could definitely move biyembo for someone like, Chandler Parsons or Wesley matthews because those teams might be more interested in an over paid 24 year old who may or may not ever get better and maybe orlando just wants that contract moved and wouldn't mind taking a flying on an overpaid SG or SF who has the potential to get back to form. Its a possible scenario.

You are a determined cuss, gambit! Yes, I suppose if what you are asking is whether there is some combination of things that could happen in the world that might then lead Orlando (or any other team, while we're at it!) to wish to acquire Mahinmi at the deadline, I have to nod my head in agreement. How could that not be true?

But... c'mon man -- that's quite a scenario you lay out! But, how did Jeff Green & Zimmerman sneak into this picture? I'm not interested in trading anybody at all for Jeff Green who isn't a very good player.

Because Jeff green is an expiring contract that is the same money as mahinmi. and I really Like Zimmerman, I liked him back in UNLV a whole lot. Plus reports came out that orlando would gladly move Green for a cup of coffee if the deal came about. If they moved biyambo, and wee offered either mahinmi for green or Mahinmi, a second and maybe Aaron white for Jeff green and Zimmerman I don't see them saying no to it.

Aaah, good thinking! Mahinmi for literally any expiring contract would be a great deal. It couldn't make us worse, obviously, since Ian hasn't played & we don't have to play the guy we acquire either.

As to the Zimmerman piece of your idea, count me in.

[payitforward]

The Suns would have re-signed Gortat because they turned out to be a competitive team. Vegas over/under for their win total was 19.5 wins but actually finished in 9th. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/28/5037930/vegas-odds-nba-over-unders-2013-14

They would have been better served re-signing someone like Gortat instead of someone like Isiah Thomas considering they already had Dragic and Bledsoe. The Suns had to overpay Tyson Chandler to sign with them a few seasons later. In retrospect, not a good trade at all for the Suns.

You don't know that the Suns would have re-signed him, but it's also fair to say that I don't know that they wouldn't have re-signed him.

Yet, Gortat was unrestricted at the end of the season, meaning that Phoenix could still have attempted to re-sign him. Since they didn't, I'm hard pressed to see why you speculate in that direction.

In any case, key point is that Gortat had been on the trade block all Summer 2013; they were looking to move him for whatever reason. We paid an inflated price, because we were desperate. We were desperate, because Okafor was injured. Etc.

[Rafael122]

Aren't Ezeli's knees shot? He hasn't played much if at all this season.

[payitforward]

Pifs analysis of this trade completely ignores any intangible or culture shift that Oak contributed to, same as Ariza(who was our 2nd best player the following year when we made the playoffs), but then assumes that we would've drafted our starting center of the future with the late 1st which turned into TJ Warren I think? I'm sorry, but you cannot pin a career ending neck injury on Ernie, we would've made the playoffs with Okafor healthy that season easily.

I wouldn't trade what Okafor and Ariza brought to this team in exchange for Kyle O Quinn. That Gortat pick would probably have turned into Steven Adams though, which would be nice, but is he even better than Gortat? is it really worth arguing anyways? Isn't gortat on one of the more team friendly deals in the league anyways?

its a whole lotta hindsight 20/20 nitpicking if you ask me. Of course PIF could see the future and would've avoided every injury ever.

Nat, you are correct that I am very light on my feet & would never have been injured.

You make some key points:

1. If Okafor hadn't been injured we'd have made the playoffs (as we did w/ Gortat at Center). I agree; it's hard to imagine we wouldn't have. Gortat played a bit better that season than Okafor had played the previous season -- but not enough to keep us out of the playoffs. Okafor was a good player. That was never at stake. But we traded for him coming off of injury, & he was injured again.

2. Culture shift: the only knucklehead still on the team in '12-13 was Jordan Crawford. We did replace Rashard Lewis w/ Oak & Ariza, but I don't think you meant to suggest that he was a "culture" problem, & anyway the alternative I was discussing was buying him out. We'd have had to sign a couple of FAs of course, but we'd have had the $8m delta between that buy out & Oak/Ariza's combined salaries.

3. Ariza our 2d best player the following year -- irrelevant: as I said, I'd have been happy to trade for Ariza.

4. Hindsight -- I opposed the trade at the time; I didn't come to dislike it later. Hence, sorry, no hindsight involved. Recall that I said I really liked Gortat. Had we acquired him the previous Summer when he was a FA, I'd have been positive on the move. Okafor had a combination of age, recent injury, & extremely high salary (for the time) that I didn't like.

5. Steven Adams vs. Gortat -- thing is, nat, why is it one or the other? We rented Gortat for a season in that trade, then we signed him as an unrestricted FA. We could have done that even if we'd struggled through the season with Seraphin & the rookie O'Quinn at C. We weren't good enough yet in '12-13 to justify the trade we made, & our record that season reflects the fact.

Best way to make a terrific team is to get good players as early as possible in their careers. The more the better, as they become assets you can use to make good moves to balance the team.

[NatP4]

Pifs analysis of this trade completely ignores any intangible or culture shift that Oak contributed to, same as Ariza(who was our 2nd best player the following year when we made the playoffs), but then assumes that we would've drafted our starting center of the future with the late 1st which turned into TJ Warren I think? I'm sorry, but you cannot pin a career ending neck injury on Ernie, we would've made the playoffs with Okafor healthy that season easily.

I wouldn't trade what Okafor and Ariza brought to this team in exchange for Kyle O Quinn. That Gortat pick would probably have turned into Steven Adams though, which would be nice, but is he even better than Gortat? is it really worth arguing anyways? Isn't gortat on one of the more team friendly deals in the league anyways?

its a whole lotta hindsight 20/20 nitpicking if you ask me. Of course PIF could see the future and would've avoided every injury ever.

Nat, you are correct that I am very light on my feet & would never have been injured.

You make some key points:

1. If Okafor hadn't been injured we'd have made the playoffs (as we did w/ Gortat at Center). I agree; it's hard to imagine we wouldn't have. Gortat played a bit better that season than Okafor had played the previous season -- but not enough to keep us out of the playoffs. Okafor was a good player. That was never at stake. But we traded for him coming off of injury, & he was injured again.

2. Culture shift: the only knucklehead still on the team in '12-13 was Jordan Crawford. We did replace Rashard Lewis w/ Oak & Ariza, but I don't think you meant to suggest that he was a "culture" problem, & anyway the alternative I was discussing was buying him out. We'd have had to sign a couple of FAs of course, but we'd have had the $8m delta between that buy out & Oak/Ariza's combined salaries.

3. Ariza our 2d best player the following year -- irrelevant: as I said, I'd have been happy to trade for Ariza.

4. Hindsight -- I opposed the trade at the time; I didn't come to dislike it later. Hence, sorry, no hindsight involved. Recall that I said I really liked Gortat. Had we acquired him the previous Summer when he was a FA, I'd have been positive on the move. Okafor had a combination of age, recent injury, & extremely high salary (for the time) that I didn't like.

5. Steven Adams vs. Gortat -- thing is, nat, why is it one or the other? We rented Gortat for a season in that trade, then we signed him as an unrestricted FA. We could have done that even if we'd struggled through the season with Seraphin & the rookie O'Quinn at C. We weren't good enough yet in '12-13 to justify the trade we made, & our record that season reflects the fact.

Best way to make a terrific team is to get good players as early as possible in their careers. The more the better, as they become assets you can use to make good moves to balance the team.

Fair points, probably better off trading for Ariza and not Okafor at the time, all in saying is that there are certain benefits that came from the trade that you can't really measure in cap space or draft picks. That okafor season was the first time I felt positive about the team, we were pretty good defensively that year as well with nene and oak inside.

[payitforward]

Hey... I can be wrong. In fact I'm wrong pretty often -- I picked us to win 39 games this year! What better of example of "wrong" than that could anyone want?

If you're not willing to be wrong, says I, you can't ever be right. & I also don't forget when I've been wrong. But I'm also right pretty often; in fact, I'd be happy to put the % of times I've been right up against anyone here.

As to the Okariza trade, it's been discussed to death. Apologies for bringing it up again.... Well, no, Nat brought it up again; but I'm still sorry for rehashing it. Even though I was & am right about it.

[Kanyewest]

The Suns would have re-signed Gortat because they turned out to be a competitive team. Vegas over/under for their win total was 19.5 wins but actually finished in 9th. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/28/5037930/vegas-odds-nba-over-unders-2013-14

They would have been better served re-signing someone like Gortat instead of someone like Isiah Thomas considering they already had Dragic and Bledsoe. The Suns had to overpay Tyson Chandler to sign with them a few seasons later. In retrospect, not a good trade at all for the Suns.

You don't know that the Suns would have re-signed him, but it's also fair to say that I don't know that they wouldn't have re-signed him.

Yet, Gortat was unrestricted at the end of the season, meaning that Phoenix could still have attempted to re-sign him. Since they didn't, I'm hard pressed to see why you speculate in that direction.

In any case, key point is that Gortat had been on the trade block all Summer 2013; they were looking to move him for whatever reason. We paid an inflated price, because we were desperate. We were desperate, because Okafor was injured. Etc.

It is true there isn't 100% certainty that Gortat would have re-signed with Suns. They did end up letting Channing Frye go. I would say the probability is pretty high considering the Suns finished the 2013-14 with 48 wins, a higher win total than the Wizards and could have been even higher had they decided to keep Gortat. Plus I believe the Suns had the cap space to re-sign Gortat and sign Isiah Thomas. Gortat certainly would have been a better opening day starter than Miles Plumlee in the 2014-15 season and Tyson Chandler in 2015-16.

I would also say the Wizards chances of signing Gortat were pretty low. The Wizards likely would have been at the back of the line to Phoenix, Miami (they were solidifying their roster in an attempt to re-sign James), and Houston.

[payitforward]

Ok back to regularly scheduled programming -- trade Mahinmi for an expiring & Nicholson for one too!

[pcbothwel]

Green for Mahinmi is very tempting. Green sucks, but the opportunity to get out of Mahinmi's deal and have money to upgrade the bench in the offseason would be hard to pass up. We'd have more than $15 million in space after you account for Otto's cap hold and the 1st round pick's salary.

But then again, we'd have to worry about Ernie offering Green a big deal

No we wouldnt. We'd have to dump Nicholson and Mahinmi to have cap space, and even then we are looking at about 11M. 11M in cap space and no Mahinmi doesnt make us better.

[payitforward]

The Suns would have re-signed Gortat because they turned out to be a competitive team. Vegas over/under for their win total was 19.5 wins but actually finished in 9th. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/28/5037930/vegas-odds-nba-over-unders-2013-14

They would have been better served re-signing someone like Gortat instead of someone like Isiah Thomas considering they already had Dragic and Bledsoe. The Suns had to overpay Tyson Chandler to sign with them a few seasons later. In retrospect, not a good trade at all for the Suns.

You don't know that the Suns would have re-signed him, but it's also fair to say that I don't know that they wouldn't have re-signed him.

Yet, Gortat was unrestricted at the end of the season, meaning that Phoenix could still have attempted to re-sign him. Since they didn't, I'm hard pressed to see why you speculate in that direction.

In any case, key point is that Gortat had been on the trade block all Summer 2013; they were looking to move him for whatever reason. We paid an inflated price, because we were desperate. We were desperate, because Okafor was injured. Etc.

It is true there isn't 100% certainty that Gortat would have re-signed with Suns. They did end up letting Channing Frye go. I would say the probability is pretty high considering the Suns finished the 2013-14 with 48 wins, a higher win total than the Wizards and could have been even higher had they decided to keep Gortat. Plus I believe the Suns had the cap space to re-sign Gortat and sign Isiah Thomas. Gortat certainly would have been a better opening day starter than Miles Plumlee in the 2014-15 season and Tyson Chandler in 2015-16.

I would also say the Wizards chances of signing Gortat were pretty low. The Wizards likely would have been at the back of the line to Phoenix, Miami (they were solidifying their roster in an attempt to re-sign James), and Houston.

Ok... strictly speaking, the probability of something that happened one way happening another way is zero.

That aside, the Suns had Gortat on the trade block in the Summer of '12 & then made no attempt whatever to sign him as an unrestricted in the Summer of '13. To me that looks like a team having turned in another direction.

As to the Wizards being at the back of the pack to sign him as a FA, how? To Miami? But Miami didn't figure at all in his FA signing. Houston? Ditto.

You will recall that we offered him $12m/year for 5 years! Those of you who remember times you are wrong will likely remember thinking that was an overpay. Perhaps you will also remember me saying it was a fair deal?

[gambitx777]

Aaah, good thinking! Mahinmi for literally any expiring contract would be a great deal. It couldn't make us worse, obviously, since Ian hasn't played & we don't have to play the guy we acquire either.

As to the Zimmerman piece of your idea, count me in.

PIF commented on my post with 100% positive reaction. . . my life is fulfilled lol.

[Kanyewest]

You don't know that the Suns would have re-signed him, but it's also fair to say that I don't know that they wouldn't have re-signed him.

Yet, Gortat was unrestricted at the end of the season, meaning that Phoenix could still have attempted to re-sign him. Since they didn't, I'm hard pressed to see why you speculate in that direction.

In any case, key point is that Gortat had been on the trade block all Summer 2013; they were looking to move him for whatever reason. We paid an inflated price, because we were desperate. We were desperate, because Okafor was injured. Etc.

It is true there isn't 100% certainty that Gortat would have re-signed with Suns. They did end up letting Channing Frye go. I would say the probability is pretty high considering the Suns finished the 2013-14 with 48 wins, a higher win total than the Wizards and could have been even higher had they decided to keep Gortat. Plus I believe the Suns had the cap space to re-sign Gortat and sign Isiah Thomas. Gortat certainly would have been a better opening day starter than Miles Plumlee in the 2014-15 season and Tyson Chandler in 2015-16.

I would also say the Wizards chances of signing Gortat were pretty low. The Wizards likely would have been at the back of the line to Phoenix, Miami (they were solidifying their roster in an attempt to re-sign James), and Houston.

Ok... strictly speaking, the probability of something that happened one way happening another way is zero.

That aside, the Suns had Gortat on the trade block in the Summer of '12 & then made no attempt whatever to sign him as an unrestricted in the Summer of '13. To me that looks like a team having turned in another direction.

As to the Wizards being at the back of the pack to sign him as a FA, how? To Miami? But Miami didn't figure at all in his FA signing. Houston? Ditto.

You will recall that we offered him $12m/year for 5 years! Those of you who remember times you are wrong will likely remember thinking that was an overpay. Perhaps you will also remember me saying it was a fair deal?

OK, thanks for the math lesson about probability. I forgot about that!

Again, the Suns trajectory changed from playoff team to bottom feeder (after losing Steve Nash/Amare) back to playoff contender (emergence of Bledsoe/Dragic). Again the Suns were a 48 win team when Gortat would have been a free agent.

Miami did end up signing Luol Deng and Josh McRoberts and yes they were rumored to go after Gortat. (Unless you believe the Washington Post just states alternative facts) https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/the-wizards-are-wise-to-make-marcin-gortat-their-top-free-agent-priority/2014/07/01/e8b23018-0121-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html?utm_term=.b73d99cba2be

Houston was a player in free agency. They were the ones that signed Trevor Ariza and missed out on Chris Bosh after Miami chose to re-sign him.