Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2)

[Brenice]

[quote="Jay81"]pacers got Paul george in the 1st round and Lance stephenson 2nd round in the 2010 without having a top 5 pick. We suck[/]

So I take it that you would have drafted Stevenson for the Wizards and ignored his reputation to play with Wall after getting rid of the knuckleheads so they wouldn't poison Wall. Blame Ernie.

[hands11]

Then he got lucky and got Wall. Luck not skill. Then he had the 2011 draft. Then messed up a high R2 pick in '12. Ditto in '13. Signed Maynor... oh it's a waste of time to talk reality....



No, we are not a team on Indy's level. I mean... they just beat us, Brenice. You are really working on fumes here!

No one would have picked Paul George #1 in 2010, but he might turn out to be the best player out of that draft, not Wall. For that matter Stephenson looks to be in the top half dozen players out of the same draft -- and he went #40 (largely because he was thought to be a bad citizen; his talent was pretty obvious).

First of all, I've said if I were Ted, I would have fired Ernie when I took over the team. I am not an Ernie fan. I'm a Washington fan. Let's be clear.

Now, I've said all along that Ernie has some misses. I understand that a top 3 pick is usually a blind woman can usually make so Ernie should not get credit for Wall or Beal in general, but they were not as clear cut as picking Shaq, Duncan, etc. I wanted to draft Wall, but Ernie could have drafted Evan Turner and got that wrong too, but he didn't. Turner was considered a legitimate potential #1 #1 in that draft. Same for Beal. There were other options at #3. As of right now, as well as Beal has played, it is still debatable whether Beal was the best pick at #3, but Beal is not a bust. Ernie should get partial credit fr getting them right. Paul George could be in Philly instead of Indy. Somebody got that WRONG. BIG TIME. Vesely, is a miss. But he is not a I could have had Wade or Melo or Bosh miss like Detroit and Darko. So with that, I give him a "miss" on that, but I also see why he swung for the fences.

Now, what makes San Antonio's GM good is the non-lottery picks, finding the diamonds in the rough. Ernie is terrible at that. I understand that. But those diamonds don't win championships without the LUCK of being able to draft Duncan. Ernie has not had a Duncan or someone on that level ever. So you can bring in the Spurs front office and the Wizards will be better, but without a LeBron, Durant, Shaq type player, and I'm starting to question Durant, you are still falling short of championships. Why do you think a Phil Jackson has all those rings? LUCK in the names of Jordan, Kobe, Shaq. When he left Chicago, he sure in hell wasn't going nowhere without a player who is not one of the top players in the NBA. Why do you think Riley has his reputation? LUCK in the names of Magic, Ewing, Wade, Shaq, LeBron. Know you tell me what they did that was so smart? Why did Riley not have a ring in NY? Because Jordan was not playing in New York. Oh the bad luck. Hell, the reason LeBron went to South Beach in the first place was to play with Wade.

You tell me when Ernie missed on one of those level of players.

As for my saying the Wizards, if they brought Ariza and Gortat back next year would be on Indy's level, has to do with next year, not this year. Sure they beat us this year. Wall and Beal will not be playoff rookies NEXT YEAR. That's the point of THIS YEAR. Indy is also a team without one of those top players. They are "hoping" Paul George is one, just like we are hoping Wall or Beal are one. Darn it Ernie. We

Ernie wouldaCouldaShoulda...blah blah blah. Darn you Ted, you should have fired Ernie. He should have drafted Harrison Barnes, DeMarcus Cousins, Kahwi, Steph, and Faried cause there isn't a domino effect when you change history and the Wizards would be champions. Yeah right.

"I understand that a top 3 pick is usually a blind woman can usually make"? What is it with the pro-EG camp and comments derogatory to women? Oh well, I made an agist Depends comment, I guess we're all a bunch of bigots.

As to the rest, I believe PIF peremptorily addressed the "domino effect" you raise, clouded as it is in the strawman contention that he (or any large contingent on this board) asserts that a championship would have been guaranteed by these alternative paths.

Better drafting, as suggested by PIF and others, clearly would have produced a more solid young core, even if it some of the names changed, and without the rush to fill in the gaps with so many high-priced veterans (Miller and Gooden as perfect examples of solid veterans that do not coast $13 million a year) the team's ascent might have been the same, leaving them with the same picks, an excellent young core, veteran presence, and cap space to leverage trades.

You can disagree that this path would likely have produced a better result, but to dismiss it as simply impossible, repeatedly voicing objections based on contentions that few if any here have ever made…well, that's why these threads are so entertaining.

Something about EG pro camp - even though most people that post about him are moderate on him.
Something about strawman - yet always making up new ones.
Something about PIF love or similar poster - gotta stay loyal to the, its all sucks fan club - ASFC (tm)
Something about being derogatory to women - still have no idea what he is talking about
Ignore all the clearly stated facts in commented post - must not credit moderate factual views.
Fill in a lot of words in between..
Rinse, Repeat.

But love reading your posts Monte

I thought you people were all about results. Well they went from Ted/Wall in 2010 to 2nd round 2 wins against the #1 seed that had a 56-26 record, in just 4 years. Most sensible people would call that success.

The team was Wall, Beal, TA, Nene, Gortat, Miller, Gooden AH, Booker, Otto not even dusted off yet, Kevin, Temple and they have cap room.

From Blow up Gungate - http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/nam ... on-wizards

Now its not like I started about this yesterday. I started on this while Abe still owned the team. And I said over and over and over they would only get better once the team was sold. I said wait until we have a new owner then lets see how the team does. A+EG=R1 vs T+EG=R2 solve the formula

R2 is much better then R1. No question about it.

I'm not even hung up on them keeping EG if Ted wants to change, but all this bitching about him makes me want Ted to sign him another 2-3 years just to prove the point that its more about the owner then it is the GM in most cases.

And like Brenice pointed out, its more about lucking into the #1 or top 3 at the right time.
Draft D Robinson #1 and draft Duncan #1 while D Rob is still there to mentor him, and you have a huge leg up on bringing in tons more players that will get good in that winning environment. Even marginal picks look great.

I trust Wall to be a core piece as a talent and a franchise face. Something Gil wasn't. They won't crash and burn with Wall around. Specially with Beal next to him. They will always be able to attract talent with those two. Picks or no picks. Plus Otto is going to be a solid 3rd piece. All three are young. The window is large. There will be lots of options over the next 6 years. This team finally has an identify. Both in its defense, and the TYPE of players that fit here. That makes things a ton easier.

They don't need to do it all next year but I expect stable to increased results. I would be buy stock if the Wizards were one given where they would be price right now and I would expect a profit over the next 3 years. Maybe the lose TA. Maybe Gortat. Maybe both. Maybe that causes a step back. Doesn't matter.

Wall, Beal, Otto, Ted. That's what matters.

[hands11]

A fair barometer of Ernie Grunfeld's value as a potential GM hire, is the fact that no NBA team with a management vacancy, sought permission to interview him when his contract was renewed two years-ago (they aren't clamoring for him now either). Instead teams hired younger assistants. Gerrson Rosas was hired- away from Daryl Morey. Orlando's GM Rob Hennigan is a former Spurs assistant. Phonix hired Ryan Mcdonough.

All of these^^ guys are under 35. Ted prefers old, stale, and "steady" to young, hungry, and visionary.

You probably should find another team to follow. Ted is likely talking the option year on EG so there won't be anything joy for you here.

closg00 loves wins as much as the next fan. He just wants them more.

More then who ?

[montestewart]

All the rest of us combined. He's a win tweaker.

[dckingsfan]

First of all, I've said if I were Ted, I would have fired Ernie when I took over the team. I am not an Ernie fan. I'm a Washington fan. Let's be clear.

Now, I've said all along that Ernie has some misses. I understand that a top 3 pick is usually a blind woman can usually make so Ernie should not get credit for Wall or Beal in general, but they were not as clear cut as picking Shaq, Duncan, etc. I wanted to draft Wall, but Ernie could have drafted Evan Turner and got that wrong too, but he didn't. Turner was considered a legitimate potential #1 #1 in that draft. Same for Beal. There were other options at #3. As of right now, as well as Beal has played, it is still debatable whether Beal was the best pick at #3, but Beal is not a bust. Ernie should get partial credit fr getting them right. Paul George could be in Philly instead of Indy. Somebody got that WRONG. BIG TIME. Vesely, is a miss. But he is not a I could have had Wade or Melo or Bosh miss like Detroit and Darko. So with that, I give him a "miss" on that, but I also see why he swung for the fences.

Now, what makes San Antonio's GM good is the non-lottery picks, finding the diamonds in the rough. Ernie is terrible at that. I understand that. But those diamonds don't win championships without the LUCK of being able to draft Duncan. Ernie has not had a Duncan or someone on that level ever. So you can bring in the Spurs front office and the Wizards will be better, but without a LeBron, Durant, Shaq type player, and I'm starting to question Durant, you are still falling short of championships. Why do you think a Phil Jackson has all those rings? LUCK in the names of Jordan, Kobe, Shaq. When he left Chicago, he sure in hell wasn't going nowhere without a player who is not one of the top players in the NBA. Why do you think Riley has his reputation? LUCK in the names of Magic, Ewing, Wade, Shaq, LeBron. Know you tell me what they did that was so smart? Why did Riley not have a ring in NY? Because Jordan was not playing in New York. Oh the bad luck. Hell, the reason LeBron went to South Beach in the first place was to play with Wade.

You tell me when Ernie missed on one of those level of players.

As for my saying the Wizards, if they brought Ariza and Gortat back next year would be on Indy's level, has to do with next year, not this year. Sure they beat us this year. Wall and Beal will not be playoff rookies NEXT YEAR. That's the point of THIS YEAR. Indy is also a team without one of those top players. They are "hoping" Paul George is one, just like we are hoping Wall or Beal are one. Darn it Ernie. We

Ernie wouldaCouldaShoulda...blah blah blah. Darn you Ted, you should have fired Ernie. He should have drafted Harrison Barnes, DeMarcus Cousins, Kahwi, Steph, and Faried cause there isn't a domino effect when you change history and the Wizards would be champions. Yeah right.

"I understand that a top 3 pick is usually a blind woman can usually make"? What is it with the pro-EG camp and comments derogatory to women? Oh well, I made an agist Depends comment, I guess we're all a bunch of bigots.

As to the rest, I believe PIF peremptorily addressed the "domino effect" you raise, clouded as it is in the strawman contention that he (or any large contingent on this board) asserts that a championship would have been guaranteed by these alternative paths.

Better drafting, as suggested by PIF and others, clearly would have produced a more solid young core, even if it some of the names changed, and without the rush to fill in the gaps with so many high-priced veterans (Miller and Gooden as perfect examples of solid veterans that do not coast $13 million a year) the team's ascent might have been the same, leaving them with the same picks, an excellent young core, veteran presence, and cap space to leverage trades.

You can disagree that this path would likely have produced a better result, but to dismiss it as simply impossible, repeatedly voicing objections based on contentions that few if any here have ever made…well, that's why these threads are so entertaining.

Someone about EG pro camp - even thought most people that post about him are moderate on him.
Something about strawman - yet always making up new ones.
Something about PIF love or similar poster - got stay loyal to the is all sucks fan club - ASFC (tm)
Something about being derogatory to women - still have no idea what he is talking about
Ignore all the clearly stated facts in commented post - must no credit moderate factual views.
Fill in a lot of words in between..
Rinse, Repeat.

But love reading your posts Monte

I thought you people were all about results. Well they went from Ted/Wall in 2010 to 2nd round 2 wins against the #1 seed that had a 56-26 record, in just 4 years. Most sensible people would call that success.

The team was Wall, Beal, TA, Nene, Gortat, Miller, Gooden AH, Booker, Otto not even dusted off year, Kevin, Temple and they have cap room.

From Blow up Gungate - http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/nam ... on-wizards

Now it not like I started about this yesterday. I started on this while Abe still owned the team. And I said over and over and over they would only get better once the team was sold. I said wait until we have a new owner then lets see how the team does. A+EG=R1 vs T+EG=R2 solve the formula

R2 is much better then R1. No question about it.

I'm not even hung up on them keeping EG if Ted wants to change, but all this bitching about him makes me want Ted to sing him another 2-3 years just to prove the point that its more about the owner then it is the GM in most cases.

And like Brenice pointed out, its more about lucking into the #1 or top 3 at the right time.
Draft D Robinson #1 and draft Duncan #1 while D Rob is still there to mentor him, and you have a huge leg up on bringing in tons more players that will get good in that winning environment. Even marginal picks look great.

I trust Wall to be a core piece as a talent and a franchise face. Something Gil wasn't. They won't crash and burn with Wall around. Specially with Beal next to him. They will always be able to attract talent with those two. Picks or no picks. Plus Otto is going to be a solid 3rd piece. All three are young. The window is large. There will be lots of options over the next 6 years. This team finally has an identify. Both in its defense, and the TYPE of players that fit here. That makes things a ton easier.

They don't need to do it all next year but I expect stable to increased results. I would be buy stock if the Wizards were one given where they would be price right now and I would expect a profit over the next 3 years. Maybe the lose TA. Maybe Gortat. Maybe both. Maybe that causes a step back. Doesn't matter.

Wall, Beal, Otto, Ted. That's what matters.

hehehe - you go on about straw man arguments and then you don't spellcheck your posts - sigh

[montestewart]

I like using "strawman" because, because, because, because, because…



But, there's one thing you haven't got



Spellcheck!

[thinker07]

It's silly to claim that EG hasn't effed up a ton of decisions. I'm not going to bother tracking all of his decisions and calculating his success rate, but for argument sakes let's say it's about 50% That's not very good and there is no escaping the fact that making better draft choices JUST in 2011 would have set this team up so much better going forward. I can't think more than 5 minutes about the Wizards without lamenting the trifecta of crap that was Vesely, Singleton and Mack. There were so many choices that would have worked out so much better.

At the same time, I think it's very clear that being an NBA GM is REALLY hard. If people say picking Beal was a no brainer, then what's Charlotte's excuse for taking MKG ahead of him? And in the 2011 draft Charlotte took Biyombo and Kemba.

And what about Cleveland? Man they've missed on so many picks - Waiters, Thompson, Zeller, and Bennett UGH!!!

And the Nets have spent a bazillion $$ on that roster and given up so many picks.

And the Knicks -- UGH.

And Detroit signing Josh Smith to that contract??? STUPID. Brandon Jennings?? Awful

AND Kahn in Minnesota? Refusing to give Love a 5 year deal and then giving him an opt out after 3 years? STUPID!

What about Otis Smith taking on Gilbert's contract?

What about the Laker's post Jerry Buss?

Honestly the genius Presti may have lost OKC's chance for a championship by trading Green for Perkins and giving up Harden for Lamb and the pick that netted Adams.

How do the Bucks rate for giving that deal to Zaza and Larry Sanders and the other awful decisions they've made?

So it's really hard to be a good NBA GM. Which is not to say that EG hasn't made lots of bad decisions - because he has. Still compared to the league he's about average or a little below average. Would I rather have a brilliant up and comer GM? Absolutely. But clearly one has to believe that Ted will keep and probably extend EG. So let's hope he makes the right decisions this summer with a ton of tough issues ahead.

[dckingsfan]

It's silly to claim that EG hasn't effed up a ton of decisions. I'm not going to bother tracking all of his decisions and calculating his success rate, but for argument sakes let's say it's about 50% That's not very good and there is no escaping the fact that making better draft choices JUST in 2011 would have set this team up so much better going forward. I can't think more than 5 minutes about the Wizards without lamenting the trifecta of crap that was Vesely, Singleton and Mack. There were so many choices that would have worked out so much better.

At the same time, I think it's very clear that being an NBA GM is REALLY hard. If people say picking Beal was a no brainer, then what's Charlotte's excuse for taking MKG ahead of him? And in the 2011 draft Charlotte took Biyombo and Kemba.

And what about Cleveland? Man they've missed on so many picks - Waiters, Thompson, Zeller, and Bennett UGH!!!

And the Nets have spent a bazillion $$ on that roster and given up so many picks.

And the Knicks -- UGH.

And Detroit signing Josh Smith to that contract??? STUPID. Brandon Jennings?? Awful

AND Kahn in Minnesota? Refusing to give Love a 5 year deal and then giving him an opt out after 3 years? STUPID!

What about Otis Smith taking on Gilbert's contract?

What about the Laker's post Jerry Buss?

Honestly the genius Presti may have lost OKC's chance for a championship by trading Green for Perkins and giving up Harden for Lamb and the pick that netted Adams.

How do the Bucks rate for giving that deal to Zaza and Larry Sanders and the other awful decisions they've made?

So it's really hard to be a good NBA GM. Which is not to say that EG hasn't made lots of bad decisions - because he has. Still compared to the league he's about average or a little below average. Would I rather have a brilliant up and comer GM? Absolutely. But clearly one has to believe that Ted will keep and probably extend EG. So let's hope he makes the right decisions this summer with a ton of tough issues ahead.

Actually - you made the point perfectly. EG repeatedly makes bad decisions - just like many of the other bottom ranked GMs.

Whereas the better GMs are always in the mix - including Presti - the difference is he puts his teams repeatedly in the discussion for NBA championships - and when he misses - they are only in the conference finals.

When EG gets it right, we slip into the playoffs - when he makes his mistakes we are back to a lottery team.

By that metric, he is a bottom third GM - and the results speak for themselves. Good enough to get in the playoffs from time-to-time, good enough to have decent teams from time-to-time but not good enough to get you repeatedly into the top 1/3. And this repeats itself for each team he has run.

[Brenice]

Whereas the better GMs are always in the mix - including Presti - the difference is he puts his teams repeatedly in the discussion for NBA championships - and when he misses - they are only in the conference finals.

Because he was lucky enough to have Kevin Durant fall in his lap. Are you giving Presti credit for drafting Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook? That sure makes him a genius.

[montestewart]

Whereas the better GMs are always in the mix - including Presti - the difference is he puts his teams repeatedly in the discussion for NBA championships - and when he misses - they are only in the conference finals.

Because he was lucky enough to have Kevin Durant fall in his lap. Are you giving Presti credit for drafting Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook? That sure makes him a genius.

Durant, like Wall, was an obvious pick, and just happened to be much better than Wall. Westbrook and Harden, on the other hand, were both chosen by OKC at a higher position than the rankings and the consensus predicted. In that sense, those picks weren't comparable to the Beal pick (or the MKG pick, had the Wizards chosen him) because Presti was seeing something in those players that others weren't seeing, or had some reason for choosing them higher than major draft analysts predicted.

[hands11]

All the rest of us combined. He's a win tweaker.

We are talking about closg00 here.. Right ?

And a tweaker is what ?

[dckingsfan]

Whereas the better GMs are always in the mix - including Presti - the difference is he puts his teams repeatedly in the discussion for NBA championships - and when he misses - they are only in the conference finals.

Because he was lucky enough to have Kevin Durant fall in his lap. Are you giving Presti credit for drafting Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook? That sure makes him a genius.

Serge Ibaka, Thabo Sefolosha, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones, Steven Adams, James Harden

So yeah - duh!

[closg00]

A fair barometer of Ernie Grunfeld's value as a potential GM hire, is the fact that no NBA team with a management vacancy, sought permission to interview him when his contract was renewed two years-ago (they aren't clamoring for him now either). Instead teams hired younger assistants. Gerrson Rosas was hired- away from Daryl Morey. Orlando's GM Rob Hennigan is a former Spurs assistant. Phonix hired Ryan Mcdonough.

All of these^^ guys are under 35. Ted prefers old, stale, and "steady" to young, hungry, and visionary.

You probably should find another team to follow. Ted is likely talking the option year on EG so there won't be anything joy for you here.

Like I wrote, the rest of the NBA owners are smart enough to look elsewhere for a GM, Ted isn't so smart.

[payitforward]

pacers got Paul george in the 1st round and Lance stephenson 2nd round in the 2010 without having a top 5 pick. We suck

So I take it that you would have drafted Stevenson for the Wizards and ignored his reputation to play with Wall after getting rid of the knuckleheads so they wouldn't poison Wall. Blame Ernie.

I don't get either of your points.

Jay81 -- We didn't have a shot at Paul George -- unless you think we could have traded our #17 & #30 & 35 for #10. Maybe in some years, but not that year I don't think. The Pacers had George in their sights.

As to Stephenson, he was a prototypical bad character type. A week after being drafted, for example, he was arrested for pushing his girlfriend down a set of stairs. The Pacers were just rolling the dice on him, as you get to do w/ a R2 pick. Yes, he put his life together -- good for him. But I thought that was a long shot at the time; I wouldn't have picked him. His talent was obvious. But it's hindsight and nothing else to complain about having missed him (not that we had a shot at him either -- having traded our #35 to move up from #30 to #23).

Did you want George at the time? Ditto Stephenson? Were you aware of Stephenson at all?

Brenice -- Sorry, but "getting rid of the knuckleheads" happened way after we picked John Wall. In fact, we extended our knucklehead-in-chief w/ a big raise well after the pick!

[hands11]

It's silly to claim that EG hasn't effed up a ton of decisions. I'm not going to bother tracking all of his decisions and calculating his success rate, but for argument sakes let's say it's about 50% That's not very good and there is no escaping the fact that making better draft choices JUST in 2011 would have set this team up so much better going forward. I can't think more than 5 minutes about the Wizards without lamenting the trifecta of crap that was Vesely, Singleton and Mack. There were so many choices that would have worked out so much better.

At the same time, I think it's very clear that being an NBA GM is REALLY hard. If people say picking Beal was a no brainer, then what's Charlotte's excuse for taking MKG ahead of him? And in the 2011 draft Charlotte took Biyombo and Kemba.

And what about Cleveland? Man they've missed on so many picks - Waiters, Thompson, Zeller, and Bennett UGH!!!

And the Nets have spent a bazillion $$ on that roster and given up so many picks.

And the Knicks -- UGH.

And Detroit signing Josh Smith to that contract??? STUPID. Brandon Jennings?? Awful

AND Kahn in Minnesota? Refusing to give Love a 5 year deal and then giving him an opt out after 3 years? STUPID!

What about Otis Smith taking on Gilbert's contract?

What about the Laker's post Jerry Buss?

Honestly the genius Presti may have lost OKC's chance for a championship by trading Green for Perkins and giving up Harden for Lamb and the pick that netted Adams.

How do the Bucks rate for giving that deal to Zaza and Larry Sanders and the other awful decisions they've made?

So it's really hard to be a good NBA GM. Which is not to say that EG hasn't made lots of bad decisions - because he has. Still compared to the league he's about average or a little below average. Would I rather have a brilliant up and comer GM? Absolutely. But clearly one has to believe that Ted will keep and probably extend EG. So let's hope he makes the right decisions this summer with a ton of tough issues ahead.

That's what I was talking about.

Now lets take a team like the Suns. I think lots of people that hate Ted/EG would say.. look what the Suns are doing. That the kind of action plan they would get exited about.

So to compare, Robert Sarver bought them in 2004...they were already a 62-20 team. Best record in the league so thats going to make comparing a little tough. Not the same deal at all.

For the next 6 years they were a winning team and made the playoff 5 times 3 three conference finals. So they have a good reputation around the league as a winner. It then took then 3 years a rebuild. Lots of moves but from a much stronger position. And no, all the moves didn't work out. But they started with assets in players and reputation to attract players.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/transaction ... oenix-suns

Some highlights.

May 13, 2004 Signed coach Mike D'Antoni to a two-year contract extension

2004 - Drafted Luol Deng Traded to Chicago for a future first round pick and #31. opps
At least they got Jackson Vroman 32nd in the deal.

January 23, 2005 Signed forward Paul Shirley to a two-year contract.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lpa01.html

November 2, 2005 Signed forward Sharrod Ford; waived forward Lucas Tischer.
December 24, 2005 Waived forward Sharrod Ford.

February 9, 2005 Acquired forward Walter McCarty and cash from the Boston Celtics for a 2005 second-round pick; Waived guard Smush Parker.
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/522/walter-mccarty

2005 Draft.. They got Nate Robinson.. From the Bulls (Deng ) as part of the Luol Deng trade. Traded along with Quentin Richardson to New York for #54 Dijon Thompson and Kurt Thomas

But they did get..Marcin Gortat with the 27th in the 2nd.. But they traded him to Orlando
From Dallas via Orlando (Darrell Armstrong trade) as part of the Casey Jacobsen / Jim Jackson trade. Traded to Orlando for future considerations.

March 11, 2006 Named Mike D'Antoni executive vice president of basketball operations and general manager; promoted David Griffin to vice president of operations and Mark West to vice president of player programs.

July 13, 2006 Signed guard-forward Eric Piatkowski, who had been with the Chicago Bulls, to a two-year contract.

July 28, 2006 Signed forward-center Sean Marks to a one-year contract.

2006 draft.. they landed Rondo with the 21st.. wow..but they trade him away..
From the Lakers via the Celtics (Gary Payton trade) via the Hawks (Antoine Walker trade) as part of the Joe Johnson trade. Phoenix trades cash, Brian Grant, and the draft rights to Rajon Rondo for a future first-round pick.

July 21, 2006 Signed guard Marcus Banks to a multi-year contract.

2007 draft ..24th pick..Acquired for taking on salary of James Jones they take..Rudy Fernandez but he went to Portland. and they missed out on.. Morris Almond 25th.. what where they thinking...
or 27th..Arron Afflalo, 28th. Tiago Splitter, 31st Carl Landry, 48th Marc Gasol

But they got Alando Tucker with the 29th, Joao Gomes 58th and D.J. Strawberry 59th
August 29, 2007 Signed guard D.J. Strawberry

2008 Draft Robin Lopez with the 15th. then traded Feb. 20, 2012

In the trade, the Hornets will receive Lopez and Warrick, the Phoenix Suns will receive Wes Johnson, Jerome Dyson, Brad Miller, a first-round pick and a second-round pick, and the Minnesota Timberwolves will receive a 2014 second-round pick.

February 7, 2008 Acquired center Shaquille O'Neal from the Miami Heat for forward Shawn Marion and guard Marcus Banks.

June 15, 2010 General manager Steve Kerr announced he won't return after his contract expires at the end of June.

December 9, 2011 Re-signed G-F Grant Hill to a one-year contract. Signed G Sebastian Telfair and G Shannon Brown to one-year contracts. Waived G Vince Carter.

But at the end of all that mess, they look like they are in the running to have a good team. Nothing is as clean as it looks when you are winning.

Note trade with PHX. They give up good players for future picks. Oh wait, we did that.

[dckingsfan]

What the Suns did/didn't do - doesn't excuse EG for his incompetence.

And the Suns would have been in the playoffs this year sans the injury to Bledsoe. So your point is moot.

[hands11]

Whereas the better GMs are always in the mix - including Presti - the difference is he puts his teams repeatedly in the discussion for NBA championships - and when he misses - they are only in the conference finals.

Because he was lucky enough to have Kevin Durant fall in his lap. Are you giving Presti credit for drafting Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook? That sure makes him a genius.

Durant, like Wall, was an obvious pick, and just happened to be much better than Wall. Westbrook and Harden, on the other hand, were both chosen by OKC at a higher position than the rankings and the consensus predicted. In that sense, those picks weren't comparable to the Beal pick (or the MKG pick, had the Wizards chosen him) because Presti was seeing something in those players that others weren't seeing, or had some reason for choosing them higher than major draft analysts predicted.

They just drafted KD the year before and you are looking to build a young core of the future.

This is your team.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2008.html

Delonte West, Earl Watson, Luke Ridnour, Eddie Gill are you PGs.

And you think adding a young talented Russell Westbrook at PG to go with KD was something that took amazing insight ? He was ranked 7th just a few weaks before the draft. I guess they could have draft Eric Gordon or D.J. Augustin as their young PG to pair with KD. But Westbrook made much more sense to give KD who is athletic, a good running mate to grow the team around.

Guess who was not on the team the following year ?

Spoiler:

Along with Luke Ridnour, and Eddie Gill

[hands11]

What the Suns did/didn't do - doesn't excuse EG for his incompetence.

And the Suns would have been in the playoffs this year sans the injury to Bledsoe. So your point is moot.

No. My point is not moot.

You are just stuck not seeing the bigger picture that no front office makes move for move the right moves. Its the bigger picture thats more important. Moves take context to evaluate and when you see enough of them in context, you can see the plan they are following. None of use knows their detailed plans ahead of time and we compare their moves against what we think the plan should be. But when we get enough evidence to see a more clear picture, we can better see what they were thinking. With the Wizards, we have enough evidence to see what Ted had in mind. He even spelled it out before hand. It was even spelled out by some here while it was happening.

So how those Kings doing ?

[hands11]

pacers got Paul george in the 1st round and Lance stephenson 2nd round in the 2010 without having a top 5 pick. We suck

So I take it that you would have drafted Stevenson for the Wizards and ignored his reputation to play with Wall after getting rid of the knuckleheads so they wouldn't poison Wall. Blame Ernie.

I don't get either of your points.

Jay81 -- We didn't have a shot at Paul George -- unless you think we could have traded our #17 & #30 & 35 for #10. Maybe in some years, but not that year I don't think. The Pacers had George in their sights.

As to Stephenson, he was a prototypical bad character type. A week after being drafted, for example, he was arrested for pushing his girlfriend down a set of stairs. The Pacers were just rolling the dice on him, as you get to do w/ a R2 pick. Yes, he put his life together -- good for him. But I thought that was a long shot at the time; I wouldn't have picked him. His talent was obvious. But it's hindsight and nothing else to complain about having missed him (not that we had a shot at him either -- having traded our #35 to move up from #30 to #23).

Did you want George at the time? Ditto Stephenson? Were you aware of Stephenson at all?

Brenice -- Sorry, but "getting rid of the knuckleheads" happened way after we picked John Wall. In fact, we extended our knucklehead-in-chief w/ a big raise well after the pick!

They drafted Wall in 2010. You know who they shipped out that same year ?

Spoiler:

Gilbert - Head King knucklehead ring leader

Replaced by
R Lewis

You know who they shipped out the year after.

Spoiler:

Nick Young - aka Swaggy P - Court jester #1 aka no assists no rebounds
JaVale McGee - aka Pierre - Court jester #2 aka which way do I do.

Replaced by
Nene

You know who was gone the next year

Spoiler:

Dray
Crawford

for
Okafor, Trevor A

Ted clearly has a different mandate for the kind of team he wanted. Actually all those young knuckheads had some talent. But they had all been infected already and needed to go.

[montestewart]

Because he was lucky enough to have Kevin Durant fall in his lap. Are you giving Presti credit for drafting Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook? That sure makes him a genius.

Durant, like Wall, was an obvious pick, and just happened to be much better than Wall. Westbrook and Harden, on the other hand, were both chosen by OKC at a higher position than the rankings and the consensus predicted. In that sense, those picks weren't comparable to the Beal pick (or the MKG pick, had the Wizards chosen him) because Presti was seeing something in those players that others weren't seeing, or had some reason for choosing them higher than major draft analysts predicted.

They just drafted KD the year before and you are looking to build a young core of the future.

This is your team.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2008.html

Delonte West, Earl Watson, Luke Ridnour, Eddie Gill are you PGs.

And you think adding a young talented Russell Westbrook at PG to go with KD was something that took amazing insight ? He was ranked 7th just a few weaks before the draft. I guess they could have draft Eric Gordon or D.J. Augustin as their young PG to pair with KD. But Westbrook make much more sense give KD was athletic and a runner like he was.

Guess who was not on the team the following year ?

Spoiler:

Along with Luke Ridnour, and Eddie Gill

All true, but that team needed just about everything except a small forward, and Love and Lopez were both available. Most national draft analysts had Westbrook going 6th or later (whereas almost all analysts had Beal going at 3), and many raised questions about Westbrook's ability to be a successful NBA PG, playing as he was next to Darren Collison in college.

It wasn't an off-the-wall pick like, say, Tristan Thompson, but it ran contrary to prevalent thinking at the time. If your actions conform with the experts and you succeed, that makes you one of the experts. If you fail, that just means everyone was wrong. If your actions run contrary to the experts and you succeed, that makes you the expert. If you fail, you are all on your own.