Political Roundtable Part XXXI

[Zonkerbl]

they've been doing it, no one cares

this is who we are now

[pancakes3]

how so? what are they supposed to do that they haven't already?

no snark, just -
1. DOJ's timetable isn't supposed to be subject to political pressure
2. Not sure indicting the FPOTUS right now would be a good idea anyway, we already have the DOBBS catastrophe pushing the needle in an unambiguously Dem direction. Not sure what the net effect of an FPOTUS indictment would be

Yes of course I'd like to see tfg perp walked sooner rather than later. But it's not up to me.

Dems should be doing what they have not been doing, exposing Republican hypocrisy, attacking what Trump did by hiding documents at Mar-a-Largo and damage him the public square. By the time Trump get's around to announcing, Republicans should be shown to being enablers of Trump's criminality, completely captured and held hostage by Trump. Basically it's a big weakness that they are not exploiting to their advantage, if you have any examples, please share.

I actually think Dems making a stink about it would just embolden contrarian R's to dig in their heels more, as they have time and time again over the past 6 years. Every time Dems whine, Republicans scoot closer to the edge to the point now that R's who back the blue have turned on capitol police and the FBI.

I don't know what the right messaging should be, but it's can't be more public shaming like what Hillary just did on the View.

I think the reporting thus far has been adequate, and in order to move the needle more in terms of political victories, there has to be actual indictments and actual convictions.

I also get that it's cathartic for Dems to see their leaders taking Trump to task, but again, I don't know if that's the savvy move.

[dobrojim]

how so? what are they supposed to do that they haven't already?

no snark, just -
1. DOJ's timetable isn't supposed to be subject to political pressure
2. Not sure indicting the FPOTUS right now would be a good idea anyway, we already have the DOBBS catastrophe pushing the needle in an unambiguously Dem direction. Not sure what the net effect of an FPOTUS indictment would be

Yes of course I'd like to see tfg perp walked sooner rather than later. But it's not up to me.

Dems should be doing what they have not been doing, exposing Republican hypocrisy, attacking what Trump did by hiding documents at Mar-a-Largo and damage him the public square. By the time Trump get's around to announcing, Republicans should be shown to being enablers of Trump's criminality, completely captured and held hostage by Trump. Basically it's a big weakness that they are not exploiting to their advantage, if you have any examples, please share.

I actually think Dems making a stink about it would just embolden contrarian R's to dig in their heels more, as they have time and time again over the past 6 years. Every time Dems whine, Republicans scoot closer to the edge to the point now that R's who back the blue have turned on capitol police and the FBI.

I don't know what the right messaging should be, but it's can't be more public shaming like what Hillary just did on the View.

I think the reporting thus far has been adequate, and in order to move the needle more in terms of political victories, there has to be actual indictments and actual convictions.

I also get that it's cathartic for Dems to see their leaders taking Trump to task, but again, I don't know if that's the savvy move.

Arguably a lot longer than that.

[dobrojim]

For Popper

recent WaPo editorials which actually appeared on the same day making me think of him...
he may/may not agree with their policy recommendations but they do cite
a number of useful facts

on immigration

Border Patrol agents are stopping unauthorized migrants coming from Mexico at record levels. Little wonder more than half of Americans now say an “invasion” is underway at the southern border, according to a recent NPR-Ipsos poll. At the same time, net immigration in the United States — the number of all foreign arrivals, including illegal ones, minus the number of departures — has been on a downward slope for five years, partly but not only because of the pandemic. As the Economist noted recently, migrants added just 247,000 people to the U.S. population in the year that ended in July 2021, the smallest increase in three decades and an amount equal to less than one-tenth of 1 percent of the country’s population. The Trump administration, having launched an assault on legal as well as illegal immigration, drove down the number of entries through red tape even before covid-19’s arrival.

Two things are simultaneously true. First, the Biden administration has mishandled immigration messaging by telling migrants not to come even as it pressed for more humane — meaning relaxed — border policies. Second, without a more forward-looking immigration policy, one more closely aligned with labor-force demands in an economy starved for workers, the nation’s long-term economic growth prospects will be stunted.

For now, the former has fouled the prospects for the latter. Despite the fact that most apprehended migrants are sent back to Mexico under a public health edict the Trump administration imposed, Republicans predictably weaponize the surge of migrants at the border, using it to scare Americans and score political points. The fact that net immigration is tumbling and contributing to labor shortages — and thereby also to inflation, by helping to drive up wages — is lost in the tsunami of political rhetoric about an “invasion.”

Credit where it’s due: Despite its contradictory messaging, the Biden administration has taken measured steps to funnel migrants legally into seasonal nonagricultural jobs in sectors where they are desperately needed. This summer, it made available an additional 35,000 temporary visas — more than double the usual cap — to help meet demand from hotels, landscaping businesses, restaurants and amusement parks, among other employers. The new summer visas were on top of an extra 20,000 seasonal visas aimed at addressing labor shortages last winter.

The bad news is that those numbers are too modest and will not offset projected stagnation in the U.S.-born labor force over the coming two decades. The nation’s anemic birthrate, which has declined in every year but one since 2014, will sap economic vitality in the absence of a robust flow of immigrant workers.

On Ron DeSantis' corrupt/bad faith 'election integrity' moves

As Republican activists waved signs saying “My Vote Counts,” Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) stood in a Broward County courtroom last month to tout the first deliverables from the state’s controversial election police squad. “They did not go through any process. They did not get their rights restored, and yet they went ahead and voted anyways. ... And now they’re going to pay the price,” he said of the 20 people arrested and charged with voting illegally in the 2020 elections. Mr. DeSantis revealed little about the individual cases — and no wonder. Many of those charged had no idea they were unable to vote; some had even received official government notifications that they were eligible. None of that seemed to matter to Mr. DeSantis, whose crackdown on voter fraud isn’t about a real threat to election integrity but rather his desire to score political points as he runs for reelection and considers a possible 2024 presidential bid.

Since Mr. DeSantis’s stage-managed news conference on Aug. 18, details about the people caught up in his cynical campaign have emerged. Many, as Politico reported, have little education and few financial resources and believed, based on interactions with election or other officials, that they were allowed to vote. Romona Oliver, newly released from prison after serving a 20-year murder sentence, went to the Hillsborough tax collector’s office to register to vote. She admitted to having a felony conviction when asked, but the official helping her submitted an application, and she soon received a voter card in the mail. Peter Washington, nearing the end of his 10-year sentence in 2006 for attempted sexual battery, was enrolled in a class to ease his reentry into society when he said a probation officer told him his civil rights would be automatically restored upon his release from prison. Once home years later, he received a voter registration form in the mail in 2019, filled it out and received a voter card from the Orange County supervisor of elections.

Florida voters passed a state constitutional amendment permitting felons to regain their voting rights, but it doesn’t apply to those convicted of murder or sex crimes. Ignorance or confusion about the law doesn’t mean it was permissible for these people to vote. But it is a gross overreaction for them to be dragged from their homes in handcuffs at the crack of dawn, thrown into jail and publicly vilified. They face up to $5,000 in fines and up to five years in prison.

Instead of spending $1.1 million on a special police unit to root out a problem that doesn’t exist — the 20 votes of those arrested last month — most of whom are Black — account for 0.00018 percent of the 11 million ballots cast in Florida in 2020 — the state would be better off using its money to create a system that can easily verify whether someone has the right to vote after serving time for a felony conviction. Yet Mr. DeSantis, who tried to thwart passage of the Florida constitutional amendment restoring many felons’ voting rights, clearly is not interested in making it easier for these people to vote. He would rather scare them away.

(personal note)
My understanding is that FL has no official means for a citizen to verify their eligibility
which ought to make enforcement of violations problematic.

[pancakes3]

IF YOU WANT TO ENFORCE VOTER ID LAWS YOU NEED TO ISSUE VOTER IDS

[Zonkerbl]

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=a1xbmQrKsThwvAAcy_C1HA&s=19

[dobrojim]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime (Baretta)

[Zonkerbl]

Read on Twitter

[Zonkerbl]

On a personal note, just got news that my remote work waiver was extended another 6 months, yay

[Fairview4Life]

Read on Twitter

It is amazing that he keeps trying to pretend that matters. All that matters is the judge(s) at this point. The age of calvinball is in full swing.

[doclinkin]

I actually think Dems making a stink about it would just embolden contrarian R's to dig in their heels more, as they have time and time again over the past 6 years. Every time Dems whine, Republicans scoot closer to the edge to the point now that R's who back the blue have turned on capitol police and the FBI.

I don't know what the right messaging should be

The messaging should be: "In the case of United States vs Donald Trump, on the issue of the (x-number) violations of the Federal Espionage act, we the jury find the defendant guilty of all charges.... On the x counts of obstruction of justice: guilty.... on the counts of removal or destruction of records: guilty... "

And when predictable idiots riot over the issue: same deal. Enforce the law. And anyone else wants some can **** around and find out.

I think Merrick Garland is doing it right: let the law do its job. No speeches or moralizing. Just filing motions and indictments, backed up by facts. Get convictions.

To me the messaging should be: why are we even talking about that felon, he **** up and got caught, move on.

Jobs. Inflation. and hey: rich people and corporations, you're already winning, pay your fair share. With great power comes great responsibility. Average joe pays his taxes, what makes you too special to pitch in? Our house is damaged, here's what we need to fix to get it in order: Everybody. Let's do this. We've got this. Let's go to work.

[Zonkerbl]

yeah persuading Trump supporters doesn't work, but taking away their right to vote by convicting them of felony assault? very effective

[Bonscott]

It's hilarious how nitwit democrats are obsessed with Donald Trump
The republicans will take the house and senate,Trump will delay his announcement until the last minute
You nitwits are too obsessed with Trump that president elect Desantis will win by a landslide because trump won't run
Unfortunately tho Desantis will have a ton of damage to undo

[Fairview4Life]

You thinking Donald Trump is going to play act as if he’s going to run, and then not, for the benefit of Ron Desantis? That’s a thing you think is true? And not thinking that makes someone a nitwit? What a time to be alive.

[Zonkerbl]

I think Trump should start a third party. I think that's the best solution, given all the non-nitwit Republicans apparently hate him and think he's just a minor political figure

[pancakes3]

It's hilarious how nitwit democrats are obsessed with Donald Trump
The republicans will take the house and senate,Trump will delay his announcement until the last minute
You nitwits are too obsessed with Trump that president elect Desantis will win by a landslide because trump won't run
Unfortunately tho Desantis will have a ton of damage to undo

what damage, pray tell.

[montestewart]

You thinking Donald Trump is going to play act as if he’s going to run, and then not, for the benefit of Ron Desantis? That’s a thing you think is true? And not thinking that makes someone a nitwit? What a time to be alive.

Desantis is Ted Cruz with (somehow) even less humor. He’s the boring bureaucrat Himmler to Trump’s flamboyant Goring. GOP voters expect a show. Trump clobbers Desantis in four games.

And if Trump dies, hard to see now that there’s any strong replacement candidate. Just a lot of weak, whiny sauce.

[dobrojim]

It's hilarious how nitwit democrats are obsessed with Donald Trump
The republicans will take the house and senate,Trump will delay his announcement until the last minute
You nitwits are too obsessed with Trump that president elect Desantis will win by a landslide because trump won't run
Unfortunately tho Desantis will have a ton of damage to undo

what damage, pray tell.

Based on prior history, I would be very surprised if we got a substantive reality based response.
These all knowing partisans on the right think extortion of an important strategic ally is
a nothing burger and that Jan 6 was a normal tourist day during which patriots expressed
legitimate political discourse.

A segment last night during All In gives a plausible explanation for much of the sycophancy
of the Party generally.

TFG's one truly exceptional skill is as a fund-raiser as evidenced by his ability to raise
$0.25B in response to losing an election. He's getting and keeping that money himself
and this has seriously diminished the ability of other Cons to raise money of their own.
So they need to kiss the ring in order to have the funds to run for office.

[Zonkerbl]

All the damage done by caravans and CRT and Hunter Biden

you know, imaginary damage