Official Trade Thread XVIII: 1/20/12 - 5/14/12

[McGully Culkin]

I continue to think that Blatche for Ben Gordon has to make sense for the Pistons. They have by far the most future salary committed of any bad team in the league -- already at $63M (!) for next year -- and that's without a high draft pick and perhaps a high second rounder too. That payroll is one thing if you're a quasi-contender or even a playoff team. But for as crappy as they are I just don't see how they can afford to not make some cost-cutting moves.

I'd really like to somehow pickup Detroit's pick. What about something like this... Lewis, McGee, 2nd round pick to Detroit for Gordon, Villanueva, Daye, 1st round pick?

Detroit gets out of the Gordon/Villanueva money a year earlier, get McGee to pair inside w/ Monroe. Plus another trade option I think is possible, but not sure, is Wizards could amnesty Lewis and essentially deal the empty cap space to Detroit and just absorb the Gordon/Villenueva contracts if Detroit doesn't want Lewis' 1 yr deal. Wizards add a couple proven vets to their roster, add Daye and another high pick.

And if we deal McGee, what's the realistic plan to fill the void at the 5? As frustrating as he is, i'm not for trading him if there isn't some sort of feasable replacement ready to go a the center position.

[Illuminaire]

Dallas might deal Haywood for nothing if we can absorb the cap space, especially if Howard is a free agent.

Heck, they'd probably throw in sweetener.

[Severn Hoos]

Wouldn't that be something? And while I'd really love to see Haywood anchoring the middle with Davis at his side, Brendan's best days are behind him (and, sadly, were all but wasted here). 3 more years? Ouch, not sure I can sign off on that one, and I was always right there with nate as one of BTH's biggest supporters.

[Nivek]

And if we deal McGee, what's the realistic plan to fill the void at the 5? As frustrating as he is, i'm not for trading him if there isn't some sort of feasable replacement ready to go a the center position.

This doesn't make sense to me. If you're convinced McGee is NOT the answer at center, there's no point in keeping him around if you can trade him for something of value. Who's going to replace McGee at center if they trade him? Someone else.

[McGully Culkin]

And if we deal McGee, what's the realistic plan to fill the void at the 5? As frustrating as he is, i'm not for trading him if there isn't some sort of feasable replacement ready to go a the center position.

This doesn't make sense to me. If you're convinced McGee is NOT the answer at center, there's no point in keeping him around if you can trade him for something of value. Who's going to replace McGee at center if they trade him? Someone else.

Where'd I say that I was convinced that he wasn't the answer at center?

All I'm saying is that trading McGee with NO plan as far as who is going to replace him at the 5, is foolish.

[queridiculo]

Where'd I say that I was convinced that he wasn't the answer at center?

All I'm saying is that trading McGee with NO plan as far as who is going to replace him at the 5, is foolish.

The assumption is that if McGee is traded, the decision has been made that he's not a fit for this organization going forward.

Once that decision has been made, who cares whose replacing McGee? In the interim you play who you have and address the position during the offseason.

[Dat2U]

I continue to think that Blatche for Ben Gordon has to make sense for the Pistons. They have by far the most future salary committed of any bad team in the league -- already at $63M (!) for next year -- and that's without a high draft pick and perhaps a high second rounder too. That payroll is one thing if you're a quasi-contender or even a playoff team. But for as crappy as they are I just don't see how they can afford to not make some cost-cutting moves.

Honestly I'd rather amnesty Blatche than deal him for a crappy player on a bad contract. Gordon has been just terrible the last few years. I see no benefit from having Gordon or Villanueva on our roster or in our rotation.

[Dat2U]

I guess my favorite move would be Singleton & Blatche for Marvin Williams if we some how could pull that off.

[Illuminaire]

Wouldn't that be something? And while I'd really love to see Haywood anchoring the middle with Davis at his side, Brendan's best days are behind him (and, sadly, were all but wasted here). 3 more years? Ouch, not sure I can sign off on that one, and I was always right there with nate as one of BTH's biggest supporters.

I'd consider him if we were getting the Detroit pick, though, or another high lottery with a chance to be top-3. In that case we'd be hopefully drafting a PF/C and Haywood would be a placeholder.

In all other cases, I agree with you.

[fishercob]

I continue to think that Blatche for Ben Gordon has to make sense for the Pistons. They have by far the most future salary committed of any bad team in the league -- already at $63M (!) for next year -- and that's without a high draft pick and perhaps a high second rounder too. That payroll is one thing if you're a quasi-contender or even a playoff team. But for as crappy as they are I just don't see how they can afford to not make some cost-cutting moves.

Honestly I'd rather amnesty Blatche than deal him for a crappy player on a bad contract. Gordon has been just terrible the last few years. I see no benefit from having Gordon or Villanueva on our roster or in our rotation.

I don't think Gordon is a totally crappy player. He's just on a bad contract. Dude still shoots lights out from 3. He's been terribly miscast in Detroit. I think he'd fit in quite well playing off of John and his contract is shorter than Dray's. Also, whether or not you are I would rather amnesty Dray isn't relevant; despite the cap relief, ownership would still have to pay Dray a lot of money to go away. Getting someone who can actually play might be more palatable.

I guess my favorite move would be Singleton & Blatche for Marvin Williams if we some how could pull that off.

That's definitely preferable, but why would ATL trade a decent player for a bad one who makes comparable money but for more years?

[fishercob]

Wouldn't that be something? And while I'd really love to see Haywood anchoring the middle with Davis at his side, Brendan's best days are behind him (and, sadly, were all but wasted here). 3 more years? Ouch, not sure I can sign off on that one, and I was always right there with nate as one of BTH's biggest supporters.

I'd definitely sign Haywood if Dallas amnesties him. The rumor/conventional wisdom is that they are going to try to trade Marion and amnesty BTH so they can pursue Williams and Howard.

[Severn Hoos]

Ah. Right. Amnesty candidate and all that. In that case, I heartily approve. Carry on.



[Imagine BTH as the backstop of a Joerger-designed defense? Yeah, that could work for a couple years... Not that he'd come back to DC, mind you, but fun to imagine.]

[Nivek]

And if we deal McGee, what's the realistic plan to fill the void at the 5? As frustrating as he is, i'm not for trading him if there isn't some sort of feasable replacement ready to go a the center position.

This doesn't make sense to me. If you're convinced McGee is NOT the answer at center, there's no point in keeping him around if you can trade him for something of value. Who's going to replace McGee at center if they trade him? Someone else.

Where'd I say that I was convinced that he wasn't the answer at center?

All I'm saying is that trading McGee with NO plan as far as who is going to replace him at the 5, is foolish.

Sorry -- I didn't mean YOU specifically. I was using "you're" in a generic sense.

As for needing a specific person in mind to replace McGee before trading him -- I still don't agree. The "plan" can be "find someone else."

Foolish would be giving McGee something like $10 million a year because the team was afraid it wouldn't be able to find someone else to play center. The goal is to get someone GOOD. A team can lose with anyone. And they don't have to pay a lot to do it.

[LyricalRico]

With no FAs likely wanting to come here in the near future, I think adding vets that are on deals that are up when Wall's extension would kick in is the way to go. That way the team start winning and then has the flexibility to add pieces once it is an attractive destination.

Wizards trade: Lewis, McGee, Young, Seraphin, and Singleton
Wizards receive: Ellis, Biedrins, and M.Williams

Warriors trade: Ellis, Biedrins, and Wright
Warriors receive: Lewis, McGee, Young, and Singleton

Hawks trade: M.Williams
Hawks receive: Wright and Seraphin

Atlanta adds a shooter on a cheaper contract, plus a young big. GSW cuts salary and tries to fill their void in the middle. The Wiz add 3 veteran starters and still have a starting PF spot with Davis' name on it.

For now:
Biedrins/Turiaf
Booker/Vesely
Williams/Evans
Ellis/Crawford
Wall/Mack

Potential 2012-13 lineup
Biedrins/Vesely (assuming he bulks up)
Davis/Booker
Williams/FA
Ellis/Crawford
Wall/FA (need to add a vet here)

Again, not a title contender, but good enough to begin the change to a winning culture. Then by the time Wall/Davis are ready to compete, they will have the cap space to make something happen. I'm assuming we continue to try to dump Blatche before amnestying him.

[queridiculo]

I have a hard time with the concept that adding players from another dysfunctional organization somehow contributes to a winning culture.

Ellis is one of the purest scorers in the game, but he's also entitled and selfish enough to blow the team apart just as well as Blatche can with his apathy and lack of work ethic.

NO THANKS.

I'm also getting quite annoyed by the assertion that FAs may not want to come here.

Are the Wizards a likely destination for vets looking to join a winning team? Probably not, but that doesn't mean that younger players around the league stuck behind other starters or FAs from teams hard up against the salary cap aren't going to entertain signing here for a nice payday and a chance to establish themselves in the league.

The way this CBA is shaping up, salary cap space is at a premium. Washington may not be able to take advantage of it this upcoming offseason, but come 2013 Washington could be one of very few destinations with the right combination of talent and salary cap space to attract Tier1 FAs.

Btw, I'd consider any deal for Marvin Williams that doesn't include a 1st round pick and McGee.

[LyricalRico]

^ Well, what I was thinking when I was typing "winning culture" was really just "more wins". This move isn't going to turn us into the Spurs, I understand that. But it would IMO get this team could get into the 35-40 win territory next season and position them to take another step the following season. Then you're looking at asking FAs to join a 7th or 8th seed playoff team on the rise instead of a young team with a terrible record that's saying "yeah we still suck but look at all the first round picks on our roster, maybe we'll be good one day so give us a shot".

[nate33]

I continue to think that Blatche for Ben Gordon has to make sense for the Pistons. They have by far the most future salary committed of any bad team in the league -- already at $63M (!) for next year -- and that's without a high draft pick and perhaps a high second rounder too. That payroll is one thing if you're a quasi-contender or even a playoff team. But for as crappy as they are I just don't see how they can afford to not make some cost-cutting moves.

Honestly I'd rather amnesty Blatche than deal him for a crappy player on a bad contract. Gordon has been just terrible the last few years. I see no benefit from having Gordon or Villanueva on our roster or in our rotation.

I don't think Gordon is a totally crappy player. He's just on a bad contract. Dude still shoots lights out from 3. He's been terribly miscast in Detroit. I think he'd fit in quite well playing off of John and his contract is shorter than Dray's. Also, whether or not you are I would rather amnesty Dray isn't relevant; despite the cap relief, ownership would still have to pay Dray a lot of money to go away. Getting someone who can actually play might be more palatable.

Exactly. People need to realize that it's extremely unlikely that Ted is going to cough up $23M just to make Blatche go away. A much better resolution would be to trade Blatche for a mediocre player like Gordon who at least isn't a negative influence in the locker room and he provides a skill desperately needed on this team.

[fugop]

I still think a trade with Houston for Patrick Patterson is in order. McGee & Blatche for Patterson & Thabeet.

[hands11]

I have a hard time with the concept that adding players from another dysfunctional organization somehow contributes to a winning culture.

Ellis is one of the purest scorers in the game, but he's also entitled and selfish enough to blow the team apart just as well as Blatche can with his apathy and lack of work ethic.

NO THANKS.

I'm also getting quite annoyed by the assertion that FAs may not want to come here.

Are the Wizards a likely destination for vets looking to join a winning team? Probably not, but that doesn't mean that younger players around the league stuck behind other starters or FAs from teams hard up against the salary cap aren't going to entertain signing here for a nice payday and a chance to establish themselves in the league.

The way this CBA is shaping up, salary cap space is at a premium. Washington may not be able to take advantage of it this upcoming offseason, but come 2013 Washington could be one of very few destinations with the right combination of talent and salary cap space to attract Tier1 FAs.

Btw, I'd consider any deal for Marvin Williams that doesn't include a 1st round pick and McGee.

With Wall playing better and finally finding his shot, players will come here and get paid.

[jivelikenice]

I still think a trade with Houston for Patrick Patterson is in order. McGee & Blatche for Patterson & Thabeet.

not big on that deal. I haven't seen Patterson much admittedly but I don't see him as better than Booker or a better option than a Robinson or Davis in the draft. Eventually he'd be buried on the bench here...