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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#921 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Sat May 25, 2013 5:13 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:People on this board seem to want Bennett more than porter now? I just don't understand the hype around Bennett he just a lazy defender and a under size big with no position in nba. Picking Bennett will be a huge mistake for wizards I would rather take a risk on Len then Bennett if Noel and Porter is gone at 3.

And we aren't allowed to have different opinions? You like Porter, others who like Bennett are going to back up their rationale for preferring him. No need to fall into groupthink. I honestly don't see any player in the top 5 of this draft being a flat out bust. They all have definitive skills that can translate to the NBA, unlike Jan Vesely.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#922 » by hands11 » Sat May 25, 2013 5:16 pm

sfam wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:I understand the Bennett support & those that want to add a stretch 4.

But I'd much rather come out of the draft with Porter and Muscala. Fills two needs with highly skilled, high IQ, high effort players. This is very do-able and both of them would be great fits on this team.
while we can choose our first pick, we aren't able to call dibbs on the second. Muscala may be gone in the mid-20s. What we know if past is prologue is that EG probably won't choose anyone in the second round that people here like or talk about, so Muscala probably isn't in the cards.

With that aside, my ideal would be Bennett, a backup combo guard in the second, and the resigning Webster. That gives us a really nice team with depth.


If they really believe in what they have started to build and they really do want to make some playoff noise next year and the year after, they won't do that.

Since I think those are things they want, so I don't think they will.

I think it more likely then not they draft Len.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#923 » by hands11 » Sat May 25, 2013 5:18 pm

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:People on this board seem to want Bennett more than porter now? I just don't understand the hype around Bennett he just a lazy defender and a under size big with no position in nba. Picking Bennett will be a huge mistake for wizards I would rather take a risk on Len then Bennett if Noel and Porter is gone at 3.

And we aren't allowed to have different opinions? You like Porter, others who like Bennett are going to back up their rationale for preferring him. No need to fall into groupthink. I honestly don't see any player in the top 5 of this draft being a flat out bust. They all have definitive skills that can translate to the NBA, unlike Jan Vesely.


I think he just voiced his. Didn't see where he said other couldn't do the same. He said he didn't understand why they would want that.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#924 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Sat May 25, 2013 5:22 pm

hands11 wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:People on this board seem to want Bennett more than porter now? I just don't understand the hype around Bennett he just a lazy defender and a under size big with no position in nba. Picking Bennett will be a huge mistake for wizards I would rather take a risk on Len then Bennett if Noel and Porter is gone at 3.

And we aren't allowed to have different opinions? You like Porter, others who like Bennett are going to back up their rationale for preferring him. No need to fall into groupthink. I honestly don't see any player in the top 5 of this draft being a flat out bust. They all have definitive skills that can translate to the NBA, unlike Jan Vesely.


I think he just voiced his. Didn't see where he said other couldn't do the same. He said he didn't understand why they would want that.

...and I replied to why he doesn't understand the hype around Bennett...it's not like Porter doesn't have his flaws too
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#925 » by sfam » Sat May 25, 2013 5:22 pm

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:I'm not sure why you guys don't think Bennett can't play SF. PF/SF is becoming a hybrid position anyway. Bennett's game is similar to Carmelo's and he played both forward positions this season. Bennett attacks from the perimeter, can handle the ball and crate off the dribble, and can also bang inside. Offensively, at least he can play both positions. My only reservation picking him is his willingness to play D. At 240lbs, I think he would punish smaller SFs on offense and be a nightmare for PFs because of his ability to stretch the floor. If Wittmann thinks Bennett can be coached uo to play defense and can fit into his system, then he should definitely be the pick.

The question is definitely on defense. I think the reservation with putting Bennett at SF is in looking at similar attempts with DWill and Beasely. Lets put the guy where he's most comfortable, and give him a clear role that he can succeed in. Perhaps 5 years down the road, fine. But for now, I think letting Bennett learn a single position and single role will lead to a much more prductive payer, especially on D. I would prefer he learn how to defend Carlos Boozer and Marc Gasol, without being worried about also defending Deng and Prince.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#926 » by sfam » Sat May 25, 2013 5:26 pm

hands11 wrote:
sfam wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:I understand the Bennett support & those that want to add a stretch 4.

But I'd much rather come out of the draft with Porter and Muscala. Fills two needs with highly skilled, high IQ, high effort players. This is very do-able and both of them would be great fits on this team.
while we can choose our first pick, we aren't able to call dibbs on the second. Muscala may be gone in the mid-20s. What we know if past is prologue is that EG probably won't choose anyone in the second round that people here like or talk about, so Muscala probably isn't in the cards.

With that aside, my ideal would be Bennett, a backup combo guard in the second, and the resigning Webster. That gives us a really nice team with depth.


If they really believe in what they have started to build and they really do want to make some playoff noise next year and the year after, they won't do that.

Since I think those are things they want, so I don't think they will.

I think it more likely then not they draft Len.

I don't follow your reasoning. Unless they draft Len they don't want to make the playoffs now???
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#927 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Sat May 25, 2013 5:32 pm

sfam wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:I'm not sure why you guys don't think Bennett can't play SF. PF/SF is becoming a hybrid position anyway. Bennett's game is similar to Carmelo's and he played both forward positions this season. Bennett attacks from the perimeter, can handle the ball and crate off the dribble, and can also bang inside. Offensively, at least he can play both positions. My only reservation picking him is his willingness to play D. At 240lbs, I think he would punish smaller SFs on offense and be a nightmare for PFs because of his ability to stretch the floor. If Wittmann thinks Bennett can be coached uo to play defense and can fit into his system, then he should definitely be the pick.

The question is definitely on defense. I think the reservation with putting Bennett at SF is in looking at similar attempts with DWill and Beasely. Lets put the guy where he's most comfortable, and give him a clear role that he can succeed in. Perhaps 5 years down the road, fine. But for now, I think letting Bennett learn a single position and single role will lead to a much more prductive payer, especially on D. I would prefer he learn how to defend Carlos Boozer and Marc Gasol, without being worried about also defending Deng and Prince.

The thing is that he has shown the ability to play SF on offense and can bang inside too...that doesn't make him a stretch 4, it just makes him an all-around forward. If he couldn't shoot the 3 or handle the ball, then I'll say yeah he'll turn out to be a D Will.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#928 » by sfam » Sat May 25, 2013 5:41 pm

I get the sense some folks here are really down on some players, but have a clear favorite. While I'm firmly in favor of getting Bennett, I still see major dividends for the Wizards if they come out of this with Porter or Noel. Not so much McLemore or Olapido, but we already have an awesome SG, but still I recognize those players will help us.

I agree Bennett is a risk. Assuming we get his lower end, we still get a roll player who comes in up front to give us instant offense up front. While that wouldn't be a good value for a top pick, we aren't anywhere near Vesely territory. Noel's risks are similar. Perhaps he doesn't ever put on the pounds necessary, or doesn't fully recover from his ACL, he still is a valuable shotblocking big who cab disrupt drives to the paint. But again, both also give a real chance of impactful change. I think Noel takes longer to do that then Bennett does, but still, potential players like this are rare, and were probably not getting any more high draft picks.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#929 » by sfam » Sat May 25, 2013 5:43 pm

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
sfam wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:I'm not sure why you guys don't think Bennett can't play SF. PF/SF is becoming a hybrid position anyway. Bennett's game is similar to Carmelo's and he played both forward positions this season. Bennett attacks from the perimeter, can handle the ball and crate off the dribble, and can also bang inside. Offensively, at least he can play both positions. My only reservation picking him is his willingness to play D. At 240lbs, I think he would punish smaller SFs on offense and be a nightmare for PFs because of his ability to stretch the floor. If Wittmann thinks Bennett can be coached uo to play defense and can fit into his system, then he should definitely be the pick.

The question is definitely on defense. I think the reservation with putting Bennett at SF is in looking at similar attempts with DWill and Beasely. Lets put the guy where he's most comfortable, and give him a clear role that he can succeed in. Perhaps 5 years down the road, fine. But for now, I think letting Bennett learn a single position and single role will lead to a much more prductive payer, especially on D. I would prefer he learn how to defend Carlos Boozer and Marc Gasol, without being worried about also defending Deng and Prince.

The thing is that he has shown the ability to play SF on offense and can bang inside too...that doesn't make him a stretch 4, it just makes him an all-around forward. If he couldn't shoot the 3 or handle the ball, then I'll say yeah he'll turn out to be a D Will.

I'm sure Bennett could play with both Okafor and Nene on offense, for instance. Again, for me I think we should really structure his role more on the defensive end to help his chance of succeeding.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#930 » by hands11 » Sat May 25, 2013 5:49 pm

sfam wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:I'm not sure why you guys don't think Bennett can't play SF. PF/SF is becoming a hybrid position anyway. Bennett's game is similar to Carmelo's and he played both forward positions this season. Bennett attacks from the perimeter, can handle the ball and crate off the dribble, and can also bang inside. Offensively, at least he can play both positions. My only reservation picking him is his willingness to play D. At 240lbs, I think he would punish smaller SFs on offense and be a nightmare for PFs because of his ability to stretch the floor. If Wittmann thinks Bennett can be coached uo to play defense and can fit into his system, then he should definitely be the pick.

The question is definitely on defense. I think the reservation with putting Bennett at SF is in looking at similar attempts with DWill and Beasely. Lets put the guy where he's most comfortable, and give him a clear role that he can succeed in. Perhaps 5 years down the road, fine. But for now, I think letting Bennett learn a single position and single role will lead to a much more productive payer, especially on D. I would prefer he learn how to defend Carlos Boozer and Marc Gasol, without being worried about also defending Deng and Prince.


Good point. If he can't defend one position, teaching him two at once is a pure fire approach to failure.

So which do you think he could defend better first ?

In response to your other questions, I said "make some playoff noise" not "make the playoffs" I have made it clear I think they are making the playoff next year even as is if healthy and I think the two things that will most help them along is a tall defensive center and 3rd guard in the model of a J Jack. CJM would be my pick. VO fits there kind of but for different reasons.

Draft one and find the other or find a way to draft both. Or trade for both.

A Bennett or Porter are not as important for them in the playoff next year. And maybe not beyond that depending on other moves they can make.

And not every player you draft has to have a long learning curve. Beal was very productive year one and by mid season with Wall back he looked like a seasoned AS. So was Lillard. Len I think will be productive well before Noel will and will stay ahead of him in development for a good while. Actually, I think Adam will be productive pretty quickly as well. He can come right in an rebound and run. And it looks like he already added a mid range.

If this team was Charlotte or PHX or something like that, I might consider swinging on a Bennett or Noel. But it isn't so I wouldn't draft those kinds of players.

The Wizards can afford to go for fit. They already have two young stars.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#931 » by sfam » Sat May 25, 2013 6:03 pm

hands11 wrote:Good point. If he can't defend one position, teaching him two at once is a pure fire approach to failure.

So which do you think he could defend better first ?

In response to your other questions, I said "make some playoff noise" not "make the playoffs" I have made it clear I think they are making the playoff next year even as is if healthy and I think the two things that will most help them along is a tall defensive center and 3rd guard in the model of a J Jack. CJM would be my pick. VO fits there kind of but for different reasons.

Draft one and find the other or find a way to draft both. Or trade for both.

A Bennett or Porter are not as important for them in the playoff next year. And maybe not beyond that depending on other moves they can make.

While we agree on the need for a big, I also think we need to improve our offense up front.

As to who Bennett guards better, clearly its the Gasol, Boozer types. Bennett is faster than them and can bang. He's just not as tall, but considering his 1.4 BLKs, he can jump. He just has to work on his effort and defensive instincts.

I also wonder if part of the effort lapse has something to do with how well he handled his asthma. At least the Wizards have experience with that.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#932 » by The Consiglieri » Sat May 25, 2013 6:10 pm

willbcocks wrote:If we want someone who's undersized with potential, draft Oladipo and play him as a 3 alongside Beal and Wall. Oladipo has a higher upside then Bennett, works harder than almost anyone, and is very athletic. I still prefer Porter, but if we're going for upside, let's at least do it right.


No he doesn't. Oladipo does not have higher upside than Bennett, I'd agree that Oladipo is more likely to reach his ceiling than Bennett, but not that Oladipo has a higher ceiling.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#933 » by Deeptu McPullup » Sat May 25, 2013 6:11 pm

There's a 9 minute Wittman interview over on CSN talking draft:

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... -prospects

FWIW, they featured Porter, Dipo and then Len in video segments with Bennet being mentioned more briefly (Randy said "a guy who's top 10 pick" about Bennet; not sure if that's a poker tell or means anything). Witt seemed fairly animated in discussing Len.

It ain't much, but it's about the only tea leaves that I've seen thus far.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#934 » by GhostsOfGil » Sat May 25, 2013 6:23 pm

hands11 wrote:
sfam wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:I understand the Bennett support & those that want to add a stretch 4.

But I'd much rather come out of the draft with Porter and Muscala. Fills two needs with highly skilled, high IQ, high effort players. This is very do-able and both of them would be great fits on this team.
while we can choose our first pick, we aren't able to call dibbs on the second. Muscala may be gone in the mid-20s. What we know if past is prologue is that EG probably won't choose anyone in the second round that people here like or talk about, so Muscala probably isn't in the cards.

With that aside, my ideal would be Bennett, a backup combo guard in the second, and the resigning Webster. That gives us a really nice team with depth.


If they really believe in what they have started to build and they really do want to make some playoff noise next year and the year after, they won't do that.

Since I think those are things they want, so I don't think they will.

I think it more likely then not they draft Len.



Seems like your contradicting yourself hands. If the Wiz are in win now mode why would they draft an injured project center? I agree with your first statement though which makes me believe Porter will be the pick.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#935 » by hands11 » Sat May 25, 2013 6:28 pm

sfam wrote:
hands11 wrote:Good point. If he can't defend one position, teaching him two at once is a pure fire approach to failure.

So which do you think he could defend better first ?

In response to your other questions, I said "make some playoff noise" not "make the playoffs" I have made it clear I think they are making the playoff next year even as is if healthy and I think the two things that will most help them along is a tall defensive center and 3rd guard in the model of a J Jack. CJM would be my pick. VO fits there kind of but for different reasons.

Draft one and find the other or find a way to draft both. Or trade for both.

A Bennett or Porter are not as important for them in the playoff next year. And maybe not beyond that depending on other moves they can make.

While we agree on the need for a big, I also think we need to improve our offense up front.

As to who Bennett guards better, clearly its the Gasol, Boozer types. Bennett is faster than them and can bang. He's just not as tall, but considering his 1.4 BLKs, he can jump. He just has to work on his effort and defensive instincts.

I also wonder if part of the effort lapse has something to do with how well he handled his asthma. At least the Wizards have experience with that.


Do you feel Len would improve our offense up front? I do. Specially in the role I feel they are lacking it.

For me, I don't think they need to swing for a stud scorer. I think they need to add to get better. And that has as much to do with defense as offense. And it has to do with personality fit with the team. Everyone left, who is a core contributer, plays D. Or at least is focused on trying..I say that for Webby.

I think Nene, Okafor and Kevin provide plenty of offense against most teams for the post. Where I saw them struggle more was against length. Nene's would get out of sync. Kevin was mostly mid range in those situations. Okafor was solid but not great against length either so he would shoot from the key. Nene, Okafor and Booker, when we had them all healthy, could muscle pretty well for rebounds and play defense, but a 7-0 player that has center skills would have really rounded out that group perfectly. Someone who could score in the paint even against longer players. Noel is to light in the trunks for that.

To me, SF is filled until proven differently. They have a great combination there and they are vet experienced. I see no need to fix what isn't broken. Specially when there are other things broken.

At guard, they clearly have two holes...Wall and Beal back ups. Well there are players that can fill both those roles. J Jack would be perfect. In this draft. CJM or like Ive said, VO in a different way. If you go VO, you need to add another PG. Price isn't the answer. You need a Wolters, Pierre or vet.

Noel, Bennett and Otto are not at the top of the list of what they need, given my break down. And that puts me in the minority since those are the players most are thinking we should get. But I stand by my breakdown.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#936 » by GhostsOfGil » Sat May 25, 2013 6:34 pm

Deeptu McPullup wrote:There's a 9 minute Wittman interview over on CSN talking draft:

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... -prospects

FWIW, they featured Porter, Dipo and then Len in video segments with Bennet being mentioned more briefly (Randy said "a guy who's top 10 pick" about Bennet; not sure if that's a poker tell or means anything). Witt seemed fairly animated in discussing Len.

It ain't much, but it's about the only tea leaves that I've seen thus far.


Can't read too much into it but based off that it seems like Bennett is not on their radar.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#937 » by hands11 » Sat May 25, 2013 6:35 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
willbcocks wrote:If we want someone who's undersized with potential, draft Oladipo and play him as a 3 alongside Beal and Wall. Oladipo has a higher upside then Bennett, works harder than almost anyone, and is very athletic. I still prefer Porter, but if we're going for upside, let's at least do it right.


No he doesn't. Oladipo does not have higher upside than Bennett, I'd agree that Oladipo is more likely to reach his ceiling than Bennett, but not that Oladipo has a higher ceiling.


Not sure what that means and to me it doesn't even matter. Higher upside ? In what context ? What matters is production that helps good teams win more games deeper in the playoffs.

I like VOs projection to do that sooner and more then Bennett. But that will only get evaluated if both make it to playoff teams. And that isn't at all a given.

But that is the frame work by which I evaluate players for the Wizards. I really don't care who posts better meaningless numbers on a team that aren't headed to the playoffs because that the stage we are in.

Crap teams that wants someone to define their team and put butts in the seats, that's a different need.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#938 » by The Consiglieri » Sat May 25, 2013 6:35 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:People on this board seem to want Bennett more than porter now? I just don't understand the hype around Bennett he just a lazy defender and a under size big with no position in nba. Picking Bennett will be a huge mistake for wizards I would rather take a risk on Len then Bennett if Noel and Porter is gone at 3.


No, the Porter and Bennett camps have stayed he same throughout the process. The only individuals that are moving, are ones that have never clearly defined themselves as pro one or pro the other, largely because most of them had already fixated on a target for the #8 slot, and not considered top 4 targets an option. So now that we're at #3, they're debating between Bennett, and Porter. A week ago most of the debate was between what third tier target made the most sense, or if a trade own did? At this point, people are resettling with our good fortune over whether we should go for the high floor, moderate ceiling Porter, or the high celing, middling floor of Bennett.

Your depiction of Bennett is really a tiresome angle as well, basically fixate only on negatives, ignore entirely why scouts all over the place view him as a player who could be the best player from this draft in a few years, and a guy with the biggest ceiling. You also ascribe laziness to his d, when we don't really know why he was so inexplicably bad on that end, preserving fouls, and rest because of the asthma, injury, naivete? Who knows. What we do know is that he's an offensive dynamo with plus plus talent at virtually every aspect on the offensive end except back to the basket post play, has a ton of athleticism, and a great wing span. Has a well developed offensive game, and a multiplicity of skills, and that he's a huge liability on D for now.

If you want to say he's a lazy tweener, and ignore why scouts love him entirely, do so, but it is very lazy analysis. If you wanted a contra approach, I could annihilate Porter very easily focusing exclusively on his issue and make him look like essentially, a MLE scrub that isn't worth taking top 10 in most drafts, and is inexplicably a top 3 target merely because this is a crummy draft bereft of upside, athleticism, and elite players (with Bennett being one of only 2-3 in it with a reasonable chance of becoming that rare gem). I don't view him that way, I think his BBIQ, length, and solid stroke will make him an average to solid defender, a reliable 2nd and 3rd option scorer, and a great rebounder, and facilitator/brain on the court.

At the end of the day, I really believe this is a choice between a guy you know will be solid on both ends of the court, will compliment the BBIQ of Nene, and Beal, accentuate the chemistry, hit the boards, facilitate great decisions in terms of ball movement for the right shot, and will give us a great 3rd option and 2nd option if anyones hurt. He won't ever be great, but he should be above average or good.

Or we can take the guy who can be a dominant weapon on the offensive in, scoring inside and outside at will, really making our offense into a constant troubling threat with Beal, and Bennett threatening from outside, and Wall, Nene, and Bennett a threat inside too. He should be able to become an elite scorer, and at worst, an above average rebounder. He'll hurt us on the defensive end some early on, and maybe for a long time, not really sure which, time will tell, but he has the ability to become at least borderline competent there, and with Beal and Wall already playing quality D, and team D a strength, having one guy who is a weakness, at least for now, would not be catastrophic, and would also really push the kid to get w/the program.

What do you like better? I much prefer the upside of Bennett, particularly sinceI also view his floor as superior to Porter's ceiling offensively, and even if his D is inferior, I don't mind, as we're already a good team on D, and he's a kid with plenty of time to develop that part of his game.

Perhaps the key point here is that in Bennett's case, he has a ton of high ceiling/high floor qualities in his O, and most of his flaws as a prospect can be coached up (D, back to basket post game), while Porter's flaws can't be coached up (athleticism, lack of elite skills).

Both picks are justifiable, and at the end of the day, people who are trending one way or the other are generally doing so based on what they prefer, a sure thing, even if it's just a solid to pretty good thing, or a more up and down risk, with huge upside (and even w/that concern, I really challenge the idea that Bennett is boom or bust because he isn't, it's pretty clear to me, that the available evidence suggests, even if he ends up struggling as a tweener, and as a defender, he'll still be a superior scoring option to Porter, so the floor isn't really that low).
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#939 » by Dat2U » Sat May 25, 2013 6:36 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:
Deeptu McPullup wrote:There's a 9 minute Wittman interview over on CSN talking draft:

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... -prospects

FWIW, they featured Porter, Dipo and then Len in video segments with Bennet being mentioned more briefly (Randy said "a guy who's top 10 pick" about Bennet; not sure if that's a poker tell or means anything). Witt seemed fairly animated in discussing Len.

It ain't much, but it's about the only tea leaves that I've seen thus far.


Can't read too much into it but based off that it seems like Bennett is not on their radar.


That means he's probably the guy.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#940 » by GhostsOfGil » Sat May 25, 2013 6:45 pm

Dat2U wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:
Deeptu McPullup wrote:There's a 9 minute Wittman interview over on CSN talking draft:

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... -prospects

FWIW, they featured Porter, Dipo and then Len in video segments with Bennet being mentioned more briefly (Randy said "a guy who's top 10 pick" about Bennet; not sure if that's a poker tell or means anything). Witt seemed fairly animated in discussing Len.

It ain't much, but it's about the only tea leaves that I've seen thus far.


Can't read too much into it but based off that it seems like Bennett is not on their radar.


That means he's probably the guy.


:lol: Who knows.. Remember how transparent EG was with Vesley?

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