Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[Brenice]

A historically weak conference doesn't make the trade better. And we were one game away from being the Cats, who won the season series against us.

Miami, Toronto, Jersey, Washington are all good teams. They are not part of an "historically weak" anything. Jersey had to gell and get going. Toronto has been the most consisent of any eastern team not named Miami. Miami is Miami. Don't get confused by records and past seasons. The record of Washington and Jersey do not reflect the quality of the team. Washington is up and coming and are peaking at the right time. Indy is doing the opposite.

The Wizards would not have made the playoffs if they played in the west, but they would next year if nothing changed across the board, with the experiece they are getting right now. This year, they are not getting swept by anyone, except for potential injuries.

[DCZards]

No. The "end justifies the means" argument is always a weak one, especially in this case. A historically weak conference doesn't make the trade better. And we were one game away from being the Cats, who won the season series against us.

I still don't see what's so bad about trading for an experienced, starting caliber big man (Gortat) that can help ensure that your team gets to the first round of the 2014 NBA playoffs...and beyond. (Yes, EG should have prepared for the loss of Okafor but it is what it is.) I personally prefer that option to clinging on to what likely would have been a late lottery pick that would have yielded a young, inexperienced player who would almost certainly need 2-3 years to become an impact player. The Zards needed to get better, not younger, imo.

While making the playoffs may indeed mean that EG gets to keep his job, it also means that Wall and Beal are getting invaluable experience and exposure that will only make them better players in the long run. In addition, the Zards are having the kind of oncourt success--and getting the kind of hype and attention--that a franchise needs in order to get on the radar screens of quality free agents.

(I saw Greg Monroe and his agent Falk sitting courtside at the first home playoff game...soaking in an atmosphere that I'm sure Monroe would love to be part of.)

GO ZARDS!

[tontoz]

No. The "end justifies the means" argument is always a weak one, especially in this case. A historically weak conference doesn't make the trade better. And we were one game away from being the Cats, who won the season series against us.

I still don't see what's so bad about trading for an experienced, starting caliber big man (Gortat) that can help ensure that your team gets to the first round of the 2014 NBA playoffs...and beyond. (Yes, EG should have prepared for the loss of Okafor but it is what it is.) I personally prefer that option to clinging on to what likely would have been a late lottery pick that would have yielded a young, inexperienced player who would almost certainly need 2-3 years to become an impact player. The Zards needed to get better, not younger, imo.

While making the playoffs may indeed mean that EG gets to keep his job, it also means that Wall and Beal are getting invaluable experience and exposure that will only make them better players in the long run. In addition, the Zards are having the kind of oncourt success--and getting the kind of hype and attention--that a franchise needs in order to get on the radar screens of quality free agents.

(I saw Greg Monroe and his agent Falk sitting courtside at the first home playoff game...soaking in an atmosphere that I'm sure Monroe would love to be part of.)

GO ZARDS!

A big reason why the reason the Wizards needed to get better is because of the short term thinking that is exemplified by this trade. Making short term moves to make it to the first round is not how successful teams operate.

Feel free to list any similar moves from teams that are actually successful. If anything draft picks are more valuable now due to the new cap restrictions in the CBA.

[Jay81]

no one is going to say....watch out for the young up and coming washington wizards...they are a 55 win team next year. No..they are not.

They barely were .500 this year playing against tanking teams and the cosmic forces came together to allow this playoff run.

if you really think about it...the bulls if they were in DC would of probably been a 34-48 team. So we struggled to beat a 34-48 team who had 2 double digit leads against us in the first 2 games.

Its a great win for the franchise...but i hope Ted dosent think we are elite or have arrived.

[Nivek]

A problem with the Wizards strategy of trading for veterans to make the playoffs now is that they used resources they could have spent on players with a longer shelf life to build a team that could a) have reached the same destination, and b) their future would have been more promising.

As the roster stands, their window for whatever success they're going to have with this group is fairly small and based on the balance of Wall, Beal and Porter improving vs. the declines/regressions/health of Gortat, Nenê and Ariza.

Their best path forward for the next couple years is likely to bring guys back and try to add with the MLE. And then hope that the youngsters get better before the old guys break down. They need at least one of those three youngsters to become elite to become a championship contender.

[Illmatic21]

No. The "end justifies the means" argument is always a weak one, especially in this case. A historically weak conference doesn't make the trade better. And we were one game away from being the Cats, who won the season series against us.

I still don't see what's so bad about trading for an experienced, starting caliber big man (Gortat) that can help ensure that your team gets to the first round of the 2014 NBA playoffs...and beyond. (Yes, EG should have prepared for the loss of Okafor but it is what it is.) I personally prefer that option to clinging on to what likely would have been a late lottery pick that would have yielded a young, inexperienced player who would almost certainly need 2-3 years to become an impact player. The Zards needed to get better, not younger, imo.

While making the playoffs may indeed mean that EG gets to keep his job, it also means that Wall and Beal are getting invaluable experience and exposure that will only make them better players in the long run. In addition, the Zards are having the kind of oncourt success--and getting the kind of hype and attention--that a franchise needs in order to get on the radar screens of quality free agents.

(I saw Greg Monroe and his agent Falk sitting courtside at the first home playoff game...soaking in an atmosphere that I'm sure Monroe would love to be part of.)

GO ZARDS!

A big reason why the reason the Wizards needed to get better is because of the short term thinking that is exemplified by this trade. Making short term moves to make it to the first round is not how successful teams operate.

Feel free to list any similar moves from teams that are actually successful. If anything draft picks are more valuable now due to the new cap restrictions in the CBA.

But most successful teams aren't already in a hole, faced with having to give a max contract to a guy who's never had a winning season or made the playoffs. Moves don't happen in a vacuum. Trading a first round pick is not ideal, but if you're gonna do it you should choose the right player at an opportune time, and Washington did that. Gortat helped us significantly, and he will probably sign longterm and be an integral piece for us moving forward.

I didn't like the Gortat trade when it happened, but I can live with it if he continues to help us maintain a winning culture.

[barelyawake]

A problem with the Wizards strategy of trading for veterans to make the playoffs now is that they used resources they could have spent on players with a longer shelf life to build a team that could a) have reached the same destination, and b) their future would have been more promising.

As the roster stands, their window for whatever success they're going to have with this group is fairly small and based on the balance of Wall, Beal and Porter improving vs. the declines/regressions/health of Gortat, Nenê and Ariza.

Their best path forward for the next couple years is likely to bring guys back and try to add with the MLE. And then hope that the youngsters get better before the old guys break down. They need at least one of those three youngsters to become elite to become a championship contender.

Right, but, that argument assumes a lot.

It assumes that Wall and Beal wouldn't regress on a team without leaders or wins.
It assumes we wouldn't overpay for the pieces because we were a lottery team with a horrible past.
It assumes we could get players better than Ariza on the free agent market.
It assumes that we will merely resign our players and not now use our cap to grab better players.

None of those things are set in stone at all. I truly do think Wall and Beal are better players because they played with Okafor, Nene and Ariza. And that is probably more valuable, long term, than the free agents a bottom dwelling team could sign. Durant is an actual possibility now. It wasn't before.

It's toss-up now whether tanking last season or getting Gortat was the best choice. As I have always said, it all depends on what they do now. If they merely resign everyone, then it's an opportunity lost... Twice.

[TGW]

If they merely resign everyone, then it's an opportunity lost... Twice.

That's what they're going to do. wysiwyg with this team....unless Porter becomes Durant, this team isn't going to be much better than they are now. And there isn't going to be capspace for the real Durant, so I don't know why people are even still talking about it.

[Illmatic21]

A problem with the Wizards strategy of trading for veterans to make the playoffs now is that they used resources they could have spent on players with a longer shelf life to build a team that could a) have reached the same destination, and b) their future would have been more promising.

As the roster stands, their window for whatever success they're going to have with this group is fairly small and based on the balance of Wall, Beal and Porter improving vs. the declines/regressions/health of Gortat, Nenê and Ariza.

Their best path forward for the next couple years is likely to bring guys back and try to add with the MLE. And then hope that the youngsters get better before the old guys break down. They need at least one of those three youngsters to become elite to become a championship contender.

How is our window for success small? Remember, to be successful all you have to do is be better than your competition. How many teams in the East are definitely going to be better than Washington moving forward?

Depending on what happens with Miami (will the Big Three stay together?) and Indy (do they keep Vogel? Do they pay Stephenson? Will Hibbert ever get his confidence back?), the Wizards could be contenders for the ECF just about every year in the near future. And they're already building chemistry and learning to play playoff ball, which is an advantage some other teams won't have.

The only way to truly reach the next level is to acquire a superstar. And what we're doing now helps us in that effort, not hurts it. We may never get the guy, but we haven't YET made any moves that close that window.

[barelyawake]

If they merely resign everyone, then it's an opportunity lost... Twice.

That's what they're going to do. wysiwyg with this team....unless Porter becomes Durant, this team isn't going to be much better than they are now. And there isn't going to be capspace for the real Durant, so I don't know why people are even still talking about it.

As I have also always said, we don't know what Ted will do. What we mostly know are the moves he makes when he purposefully wants to tank by collecting older leaders and draft picks. We do not yet know what he does with a winning team to get them to the next level.

PS All the Durant talk is to pressure management, via the media, into getting Durant. So, the goal you are searching for (for management to make big moves) is what the "Durant talk" is trying to ensure via public shaming. And btw, it got Wall to go on record and got the media talking (and will continue to), so it is working. You can help by joining in. The more people repeating the rumor, the more management will feel pressure to make it happen (to appease a public, and now a Wall, demanding it).

[tontoz]

But most successful teams aren't already in a hole, faced with having to give a max contract to a guy who's never had a winning season or made the playoffs. Moves don't happen in a vacuum. Trading a first round pick is not ideal, but if you're gonna do it you should choose the right player at an opportune time, and Washington did that. Gortat helped us significantly, and he will probably sign longterm and be an integral piece for us moving forward.

I didn't like the Gortat trade when it happened, but I can live with it if he continues to help us maintain a winning culture.

Exactly. Successful teams don't take 6 seasons to rebuild. They are making smart long term moves as opposed to short term, job saving moves.

the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Miller/Foye, two expirers. Another short sighted move, passing on Curry who wanted to come here.

[barelyawake]

But most successful teams aren't already in a hole, faced with having to give a max contract to a guy who's never had a winning season or made the playoffs. Moves don't happen in a vacuum. Trading a first round pick is not ideal, but if you're gonna do it you should choose the right player at an opportune time, and Washington did that. Gortat helped us significantly, and he will probably sign longterm and be an integral piece for us moving forward.

I didn't like the Gortat trade when it happened, but I can live with it if he continues to help us maintain a winning culture.

Exactly. Successful teams don't take 6 seasons to rebuild. They are making smart long term moves as opposed to short term, job saving moves.

the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Miller/Foye, two expirers. Another short sighted move, passing on Curry who wanted to come here.

Yes, but that was Abe. And I hated the idea at the time. But, that was a dying Abe demanding they do it. You can't count that against Ted.

[tontoz]

Yes, but that was Abe. And I hated the idea at the time. But, that was a dying Abe demanding they do it. You can't count that against Ted.

Rehiring a GM with a long history of failure without interviewing other candidates counts against Ted.

[barelyawake]

Yes, but that was Abe. And I hated the idea at the time. But, that was a dying Abe demanding they do it. You can't count that against Ted.

Rehiring a GM with a long history of failure without interviewing other candidates counts against Ted.

Maybe. Seems like the right guy to tank a team with though. Seems like hiring a new guy, and telling him your goal is to tank a few years, might be problematic for many reasons.

Again, this is all stuff we argued two years ago. It all depends on what they do next, which is the argument I made back then. We will see. They could screw it all up.

[montestewart]

But most successful teams aren't already in a hole, faced with having to give a max contract to a guy who's never had a winning season or made the playoffs. Moves don't happen in a vacuum. Trading a first round pick is not ideal, but if you're gonna do it you should choose the right player at an opportune time, and Washington did that. Gortat helped us significantly, and he will probably sign longterm and be an integral piece for us moving forward.

I didn't like the Gortat trade when it happened, but I can live with it if he continues to help us maintain a winning culture.

Exactly. Successful teams don't take 6 seasons to rebuild. They are making smart long term moves as opposed to short term, job saving moves.

the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Miller/Foye, two expirers. Another short sighted move, passing on Curry who wanted to come here.

Yes, but that was Abe. And I hated the idea at the time. But, that was a dying Abe demanding they do it. You can't count that against Ted.

True. Anybody still have a transcript of that conversation? No? I guess we'll have to check with Abe. Oh wait!

The Wizards have traded quite a few draft picks. This blaming everything on Abe is getting a little old.

[Dat2U]

But most successful teams aren't already in a hole, faced with having to give a max contract to a guy who's never had a winning season or made the playoffs. Moves don't happen in a vacuum. Trading a first round pick is not ideal, but if you're gonna do it you should choose the right player at an opportune time, and Washington did that. Gortat helped us significantly, and he will probably sign longterm and be an integral piece for us moving forward.

I didn't like the Gortat trade when it happened, but I can live with it if he continues to help us maintain a winning culture.

Exactly. Successful teams don't take 6 seasons to rebuild. They are making smart long term moves as opposed to short term, job saving moves.

the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Miller/Foye, two expirers. Another short sighted move, passing on Curry who wanted to come here.

Yes, but that was Abe. And I hated the idea at the time. But, that was a dying Abe demanding they do it. You can't count that against Ted.

Oh come on! Even you should know that Abe wasn't demanding that they trade the pick for Mike Miller & Randy Foye! Abe was barely conscious at this stage and confined to a wheelchair. When did he have time to scout Randy Foye? In between his naps and being fed a cup of apple sauce?

[barelyawake]

Exactly. Successful teams don't take 6 seasons to rebuild. They are making smart long term moves as opposed to short term, job saving moves.

the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Miller/Foye, two expirers. Another short sighted move, passing on Curry who wanted to come here.

Yes, but that was Abe. And I hated the idea at the time. But, that was a dying Abe demanding they do it. You can't count that against Ted.

True. Anybody still have a transcript of that conversation? No? I guess we'll have to check with Abe. Oh wait!

The Wizards have traded quite a few draft picks. This blaming everything on Abe is getting a little old.

You do understand that I'm defending Ted, not EG right? And I'm only defending Ted by saying you can't know what he will do next based on Abe's track record. Ted could still screw it up, as I said.

[Pilchard]

The criticism of the Gortat trade at the time was reasonable as, while Ernie will deny it, the move was made to try secure a playoff seed, and no one in the organization thought that, even with the addition of Polish Hammer, this team would accomplish anything beyond a 1st round playoff exit. Agree that the goal in October 2013 was simply to make the playoffs with no expectation of anything beyond. The strategy was short-sighted.

With that said, a ton of teams in the East (Indiana, Nets, Knicks, even the Bulls as everyone thought D Rose would be healthy) turned out to be much weaker than everyone expected. Now, as the result of the trade and the misfortune of others, the Wizards have a reasonable likelihood of reaching the Eastern Conference Finals. Every GM in the league would trade a lottery protected 1st round pick for the chance to be one of 4 teams left fighting for an NBA title. So, while the criticism was legit at the time, the trade can not be reasonably criticized now.

Ernie and the Wizard got a little lucky, but the organization is long overdue for some luck.

[barelyawake]

Exactly. Successful teams don't take 6 seasons to rebuild. They are making smart long term moves as opposed to short term, job saving moves.

the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Miller/Foye, two expirers. Another short sighted move, passing on Curry who wanted to come here.

Yes, but that was Abe. And I hated the idea at the time. But, that was a dying Abe demanding they do it. You can't count that against Ted.

Oh come on! Even you should know that Abe wasn't demanding that they trade the pick for Mike Miller & Randy Foye! Abe was barely conscious at this stage and confined to a wheelchair. When did he have time to scout Randy Foye? In between his naps and being fed a cup of apple sauce?

Dat... Lol. First, I was the loudest voice against that trade. Remember there were many here using statistics to tell us why Miller was our missing piece. I said it was a disaster.

Second, it was widely reported that Abe wanted us to "win now."

Lastly, as I keep saying, I am not defending EG.

[Jay81]

The criticism of the Gortat trade at the time was reasonable as, while Ernie will deny it, the move was made to try secure a playoff seed, and no one in the organization thought that, even with the addition of Polish Hammer, this team would accomplish anything beyond a 1st round playoff exit. Agree that the goal in October 2013 was simply to make the playoffs with no expectation of anything beyond. The strategy was short-sighted.

With that said, a ton of teams in the East (Indiana, Nets, Knicks, even the Bulls as everyone thought D Rose would be healthy) turned out to be much weaker than everyone expected. Now, as the result of the trade and the misfortune of others, the Wizards have a reasonable likelihood of reaching the Eastern Conference Finals. Every GM in the league would trade a lottery protected 1st round pick for the chance to be one of 4 teams left fighting for an NBA title. So, while the criticism was legit at the time, the trade can not be reasonably criticized now.

Ernie and the Wizard got a little lucky, but the organization is long overdue for some luck.

if we make the ECF, does our draft choice we give to Suns worsen or does it stay at 18