Political Roundtable Part XV

[Ruzious]

SD, there's nothing wrong with setting up charitable foundations that reduce the estate tax. Helping charities is generally a good thing for the US. Without that particular loophole, charities lose millions in donations. There are loopholes in allowing discounted values for family partnerships, S Corps, and trusts that should be eliminated, but at least they have been attacked more by the IRS in recent years. Even with that loophole, the estate and gift tax raises about $20 billion in revenue per year. Yes, it should be more, so then why wouldn't you focus on closing loopholes that really should be closed and decreasing the lifetime exclusions rather than favoring eliminating the tax? Seems like a more logical move than putting a 98% tax on big businesses.

[montestewart]

no...don't go...please...

not sure if serious but ok. i'll stay

Well, now you're quoting my wife.

As my great aunt once said to me, "I can't understand a word you're saying, but it sure does sound interesting." So sure, stick around.

[stilldropin20]

SD, there's nothing wrong with setting up charitable foundations that reduce the estate tax. Helping charities is generally a good thing for the US. Without that particular loophole, charities lose millions in donations. There are loopholes in allowing discounted values for family partnerships, S Corps, and trusts that should be eliminated, but at least they have been attacked more by the IRS in recent years. Even with that loophole, the estate and gift tax raises about $20 billion in revenue per year. Yes, it should be more, so then why wouldn't you focus on closing loopholes that really should be closed and decreasing the lifetime exclusions rather than favoring eliminating the tax? Seems like a more logical move than putting a 98% tax on big businesses.

501c3 charities are giving up 7%. thats it. I cant find the link right now. but its a .gov link for anyone that wants to click around. 7%!!!! so im not sure if its 2016 or 2015. 16 i believe. but 7-8% is standard. Are you "ok" with that?

again, about 650 Billion is held in combined registered 501c3's.

and here's the kicker, they could have simply donated from one to 501c3 to another- i dont think there is a watch dog on that. so a father could run a 501c3 and donate some of those funds to his daughter's 501c3. when in effect


and I'm not saying that no-for-profits dont do some good things. 44 Billion is a lot to "donate. but $600 Billion was protected from taxes along the way. Thats a problem.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

#stilldroppinacid

[Ruzious]

SD, there's nothing wrong with setting up charitable foundations that reduce the estate tax. Helping charities is generally a good thing for the US. Without that particular loophole, charities lose millions in donations. There are loopholes in allowing discounted values for family partnerships, S Corps, and trusts that should be eliminated, but at least they have been attacked more by the IRS in recent years. Even with that loophole, the estate and gift tax raises about $20 billion in revenue per year. Yes, it should be more, so then why wouldn't you focus on closing loopholes that really should be closed and decreasing the lifetime exclusions rather than favoring eliminating the tax? Seems like a more logical move than putting a 98% tax on big businesses.

501c3 charities are giving up 7%. thats it. I cant find the link right now. but its a .gov link for anyone that wants to click around. 7%!!!! so im not sure if its 2016 or 2015. 16 i believe. but 7-8% is standard. Are you "ok" with that?

again, about 650 Billion is held in combined registered 501c3's.

and here's the kicker, they could have simply donated from one to 501c3 to another- i dont think there is a watch dog on that. so a father could run a 501c3 and donate some of those funds to his daughter's 501c3. when in effect


and I'm not saying that no-for-profits dont do some good things. 44 Billion is a lot to "donate. but $600 Billion was protected from taxes along the way. Thats a problem.

I think you have a valid point, but part of what you're talking about is a timing issue. They don't have to spend all they've received in the year received. But there are requirements at least for private foundations to make minimum distributions each year. If they fail to make the required distributions, they're subject to a 30% excise tax.

[stilldropin20]

in other news.

silver is getting out in front of the national anthem debate. reiterating existing rules players MUST stand. league will fine and suspend. does not want teams fining or suspending.

it will be interesting to see what they do. I cant see lebron biting the hand that feeds so what ever he does will be well thought out and have league's front office stamp of approval on it. we'll see.

I'm hoping the entire league stands. I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the flag and anthem should be one of those sacred places we stand united.

as for steph, he's my current favorite player in terms of how he plays, skill set. he appears to still have a bone to pick with 45. beinteresting if he sits. Is this his Hollywood Hogan moment? His NWO? His taking his talents to south beach? We'll see. ballparking it, I got it at 7-1, dog, he takes a knee.

[Ruzious]

in other news.

silver is getting out in front of the national anthem debate. reiterating existing rules players MUST stand. league will fine and suspend. does not want teams fining or suspending.

it will be interesting to see what they do. I cant see lebron biting the hand that feeds so what ever he does will be well thought out and have league's front office stamp of approval on it. we'll see.

I'm hoping the entire league stands. I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the flag and anthem should be one of those sacred places we stand united.

as for steph, he's my current favorite player in terms of how he plays, skill set. he appears to still have a bone to pick with 45. beinteresting if he sits. Is this his Hollywood Hogan moment? His NWO? His taking his talents to south beach? We'll see. ballparking it, I got it at 7-1, dog, he takes a knee.

I don't get the fascination folks have with whether or not players stand - especially when folks in the stands are talking and eating hot dogs. Does paying for your ticket exempt you from being patriotic? That'd be an ironic excuse.

[Ruzious]

double-reverse post, and they won't let me delete it.

[Pointgod]

in other news.

silver is getting out in front of the national anthem debate. reiterating existing rules players MUST stand. league will fine and suspend. does not want teams fining or suspending.

it will be interesting to see what they do. I cant see lebron biting the hand that feeds so what ever he does will be well thought out and have league's front office stamp of approval on it. we'll see.

I'm hoping the entire league stands. I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the flag and anthem should be one of those sacred places we stand united.

as for steph, he's my current favorite player in terms of how he plays, skill set. he appears to still have a bone to pick with 45. beinteresting if he sits. Is this his Hollywood Hogan moment? His NWO? His taking his talents to south beach? We'll see. ballparking it, I got it at 7-1, dog, he takes a knee.

I don't get the fascination folks have with whether or not players stand - especially when folks in the stands are talking and eating hot dogs. Does paying for your ticket exempt you from being patriotic? That'd be an ironic excuse.

I don't know if it's you or another poster that asked the question if people watching at home or in a bar stand and take off their hats during the national anthem. Frankly the whole backlash is weird considering that people could just skip the anthem, but they'd rather be triggered by a 2 minute peaceful protest. Considering the protest has nothing to do with the flag or troops the backlash reeks of "keeping those ungrateful blacks in their place"

[dckingsfan]

SD, there's nothing wrong with setting up charitable foundations that reduce the estate tax. Helping charities is generally a good thing for the US. Without that particular loophole, charities lose millions in donations. There are loopholes in allowing discounted values for family partnerships, S Corps, and trusts that should be eliminated, but at least they have been attacked more by the IRS in recent years. Even with that loophole, the estate and gift tax raises about $20 billion in revenue per year...

I think the problem is it is difficult (if not impossible) to close the charitable deduction without leaving in place many other loopholes in place - stilldropin actually had a good point there. See the Clinton and Trump foundations for more on that. Having a large charity that you control - well, that is part of what we want to get rid of, right?

I think the charitable deduction should be removed but they need to keep the estate and gift taxes. So, we half agree

The problem with and why we can't get rid of the charitable deductions are higher ed and religious entities. They cover 2/3s of the population and would throw a hissy fit unlike any we have seen in a long time.

[dckingsfan]

in other news.

silver is getting out in front of the national anthem debate. reiterating existing rules players MUST stand. league will fine and suspend. does not want teams fining or suspending.

it will be interesting to see what they do. I cant see lebron biting the hand that feeds so what ever he does will be well thought out and have league's front office stamp of approval on it. we'll see.

I'm hoping the entire league stands. I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the flag and anthem should be one of those sacred places we stand united.

as for steph, he's my current favorite player in terms of how he plays, skill set. he appears to still have a bone to pick with 45. beinteresting if he sits. Is this his Hollywood Hogan moment? His NWO? His taking his talents to south beach? We'll see. ballparking it, I got it at 7-1, dog, he takes a knee.

I don't get the fascination folks have with whether or not players stand - especially when folks in the stands are talking and eating hot dogs. Does paying for your ticket exempt you from being patriotic? That'd be an ironic excuse.

For the NBA players - it is easy. Stand for the national anthem and then gather both teams and take a knee. Let's see if they figure it out...

[Pointgod]

in other news.

silver is getting out in front of the national anthem debate. reiterating existing rules players MUST stand. league will fine and suspend. does not want teams fining or suspending.

it will be interesting to see what they do. I cant see lebron biting the hand that feeds so what ever he does will be well thought out and have league's front office stamp of approval on it. we'll see.

I'm hoping the entire league stands. I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the flag and anthem should be one of those sacred places we stand united.

as for steph, he's my current favorite player in terms of how he plays, skill set. he appears to still have a bone to pick with 45. beinteresting if he sits. Is this his Hollywood Hogan moment? His NWO? His taking his talents to south beach? We'll see. ballparking it, I got it at 7-1, dog, he takes a knee.

I don't get the fascination folks have with whether or not players stand - especially when folks in the stands are talking and eating hot dogs. Does paying for your ticket exempt you from being patriotic? That'd be an ironic excuse.

For the NBA players - it is easy. Stand for the national anthem and then gather both teams and take a knee. Let's see if they figure it out...

I'd like to see the big stars like LeBron or Curry call the NBA's bluff, but only if they're really about speaking out about racial injustice and police brutality. Good luck fining or suspending the face of the league.

[dckingsfan]

I don't get the fascination folks have with whether or not players stand - especially when folks in the stands are talking and eating hot dogs. Does paying for your ticket exempt you from being patriotic? That'd be an ironic excuse.

For the NBA players - it is easy. Stand for the national anthem and then gather both teams and take a knee. Let's see if they figure it out...

I'd like to see the big stars like LeBron or Curry call the NBA's bluff, but only if they're really about speaking out about racial injustice and police brutality. Good luck fining or suspending the face of the league.

But wouldn't it be more nuanced to do it after the national anthem? Don't the stars win on both accounts if they wait until the national anthem is completed (or do it before the national anthem)?

[Pointgod]

For the NBA players - it is easy. Stand for the national anthem and then gather both teams and take a knee. Let's see if they figure it out...

I'd like to see the big stars like LeBron or Curry call the NBA's bluff, but only if they're really about speaking out about racial injustice and police brutality. Good luck fining or suspending the face of the league.

But wouldn't it be more nuanced to do it after the national anthem? Don't the stars win on both accounts if they wait until the national anthem is completed (or do it before the national anthem)?

Here's the thing and take this as my personal opinion on this. The purpose of a protest isn't to make people comfortable it's to draw attention to a particular issue. And kneeling before or after the anthem actually cheapens the effect of the protest. It really does nothing for the conversation because it doesn't bring the same amount of attention to start a conversation. And athletes have been kneeling for the anthem decades before Kaepernick. At the end of the point of the protest isn't to make people comfortable but rather create awareness to get enough people on your side. People who are violently against taking a knee will be on the wrong side of history. You have to remember a vast majority of white Americans were against the way black people protested during civil rights.

Although kneeling before or after the anthem would be a good litmus test for the "I'm not against the protest just don't kneel during the anthem folks". I theorize they'll just move the goal posts to "keep politics out of sports". Thus proving that no matter how they do it, black people can't win.

[montestewart]

in other news.

silver is getting out in front of the national anthem debate. reiterating existing rules players MUST stand. league will fine and suspend. does not want teams fining or suspending.

it will be interesting to see what they do. I cant see lebron biting the hand that feeds so what ever he does will be well thought out and have league's front office stamp of approval on it. we'll see.

I'm hoping the entire league stands. I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the flag and anthem should be one of those sacred places we stand united.

as for steph, he's my current favorite player in terms of how he plays, skill set. he appears to still have a bone to pick with 45. beinteresting if he sits. Is this his Hollywood Hogan moment? His NWO? His taking his talents to south beach? We'll see. ballparking it, I got it at 7-1, dog, he takes a knee.

I don't get the fascination folks have with whether or not players stand - especially when folks in the stands are talking and eating hot dogs. Does paying for your ticket exempt you from being patriotic? That'd be an ironic excuse.

I don't know if it's you or another poster that asked the question if people watching at home or in a bar stand and take off their hats during the national anthem. Frankly the whole backlash is weird considering that people could just skip the anthem, but they'd rather be triggered by a 2 minute peaceful protest. Considering the protest has nothing to do with the flag or troops the backlash reeks of "keeping those ungrateful blacks in their place"

And why just sporting events? Why don't people stand for the National Anthem before every movie, play, concert, fashion show, art opening, poetry reading, lecture, street festival, bake sale, block party, circus, picnic, flash mob, person streaking, lemonade stand, go cart race, Carnival for Muscular Dystrophy, or game of hide and seek, like they do in Iran, North Korea, and Mordor? Where's the true patriotism? Who would protest the Carnival for Muscular Dystrophy?

[montestewart]

I'd like to see the big stars like LeBron or Curry call the NBA's bluff, but only if they're really about speaking out about racial injustice and police brutality. Good luck fining or suspending the face of the league.

But wouldn't it be more nuanced to do it after the national anthem? Don't the stars win on both accounts if they wait until the national anthem is completed (or do it before the national anthem)?

Here's the thing and take this as my personal opinion on this. The purpose of a protest isn't to make people comfortable it's to draw attention to a particular issue. And kneeling before or after the anthem actually cheapens the effect of the protest. It really does nothing for the conversation because it doesn't bring the same amount of attention to start a conversation. And athletes have been kneeling for the anthem decades before Kaepernick. At the end of the point of the protest isn't to make people comfortable but rather create awareness to get enough people on your side. People who are violently against taking a knee will be on the wrong side of history. You have to remember a vast majority of white Americans were against the way black people protested during civil rights.

Although kneeling before or after the anthem would be a good litmus test for the "I'm not against the protest just don't kneel during the anthem folks". I theorize they'll just move the goal posts to "keep politics out of sports". Thus proving that no matter how they do it, black people can't win.

Letting demonstratively self righteous "patriots" define proper behavior for patriotism and protest is surrender in itself. Kaepernick is more patriotic than Trump, who has no moral standing from which to dictate anything to Kaepernick, just a lot of hot air and a bully pulpit from which to once more promote the Trump brand.

[DCZards]

in other news.

silver is getting out in front of the national anthem debate. reiterating existing rules players MUST stand. league will fine and suspend. does not want teams fining or suspending.

it will be interesting to see what they do. I cant see lebron biting the hand that feeds so what ever he does will be well thought out and have league's front office stamp of approval on it. we'll see.

I'm hoping the entire league stands. I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the flag and anthem should be one of those sacred places we stand united.

as for steph, he's my current favorite player in terms of how he plays, skill set. he appears to still have a bone to pick with 45. beinteresting if he sits. Is this his Hollywood Hogan moment? His NWO? His taking his talents to south beach? We'll see. ballparking it, I got it at 7-1, dog, he takes a knee.

I think you've got that backward--Silver should be careful about biting the hand that feeds him. The league can survive without Silver...but the NBA is dead meat without its players, especially stars like Lebron, Curry, Durant, Paul, etc.

As for forcing people to stand for the flag and anthem, I'm totally against that. Your idea sounds an awful lot like totalitarianism to me. The flag and anthem represent the state/country....nothing more, nothing less. We should not be forced to put the state/country over our personal freedoms.

My wife and I began sitting during the national anthem at Wizards game after the election of DT. We were just that pissed off at our country. Not sure if we'll continue to do that next season.

[Ruzious]

But wouldn't it be more nuanced to do it after the national anthem? Don't the stars win on both accounts if they wait until the national anthem is completed (or do it before the national anthem)?

Here's the thing and take this as my personal opinion on this. The purpose of a protest isn't to make people comfortable it's to draw attention to a particular issue. And kneeling before or after the anthem actually cheapens the effect of the protest. It really does nothing for the conversation because it doesn't bring the same amount of attention to start a conversation. And athletes have been kneeling for the anthem decades before Kaepernick. At the end of the point of the protest isn't to make people comfortable but rather create awareness to get enough people on your side. People who are violently against taking a knee will be on the wrong side of history. You have to remember a vast majority of white Americans were against the way black people protested during civil rights.

Although kneeling before or after the anthem would be a good litmus test for the "I'm not against the protest just don't kneel during the anthem folks". I theorize they'll just move the goal posts to "keep politics out of sports". Thus proving that no matter how they do it, black people can't win.

Letting demonstratively self righteous "patriots" define proper behavior for patriotism and protest is surrender in itself. Kaepernick is more patriotic than Trump, who has no moral standing from which to dictate anything to Kaepernick, just a lot of hot air and a bully pulpit from which to once more promote the Trump brand.

Plus 1,000. Trump's a draft-dodging hypocrite spending his time and energy criticising people who take a knee, when he should be dealing with the terrible crisis in PR. Instead he's getting into multiple twitter wars - and one is with the Mayor of San Juan - who IS working day and night on the problem against all odds. And all he f'n cares about is how he looks and getting one up on her. Every time I think he can't go lower, he does. This is how he deals with his first crisis. He's not just a disgrace as a President; he's a disgrace as a human. And that's not being hysterical. Being hysterical was supporting that piece of garbage.

[stilldropin20]

in other news.

silver is getting out in front of the national anthem debate. reiterating existing rules players MUST stand. league will fine and suspend. does not want teams fining or suspending.

it will be interesting to see what they do. I cant see lebron biting the hand that feeds so what ever he does will be well thought out and have league's front office stamp of approval on it. we'll see.

I'm hoping the entire league stands. I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the flag and anthem should be one of those sacred places we stand united.

as for steph, he's my current favorite player in terms of how he plays, skill set. he appears to still have a bone to pick with 45. beinteresting if he sits. Is this his Hollywood Hogan moment? His NWO? His taking his talents to south beach? We'll see. ballparking it, I got it at 7-1, dog, he takes a knee.

I think you've got that backward--Silver should be careful about biting the hand that feeds him. The league can survive without Silver...but the NBA is dead meat without its players, especially stars like Lebron, Curry, Durant, Paul, etc.

As for forcing people to stand for the flag and anthem, I'm totally against that. Your idea sounds an awful lot like totalitarianism to me. The flag and anthem represent the state/country....nothing more, nothing less. We should not be forced to put the state/country over our personal freedoms.

My wife and I began sitting during the national anthem at Wizards game after the election of DT. We were just that pissed off at our country. Not sure if we'll continue to do that next season.

Well. LeBron' s " hand that feeds " is the public. Not silver or the nba. Public opinion on this matter was 70% for standing 30% against. Another poll was taken last week after all the backlash from the president and that number is now down to 55% for standing. Obviously those numbers will be higher in small towns vs. Big cities.

I understand that LeBron is "above" the NBA similar to Michael Jordan. And right or wrong Michael Jordan would definitely have stood and put his hand on his heart. "Republicans buy shoes too," was the words from Michael.

LeBron's brand took a" hit" when he went to Miami so I don't know if he wants his brand to take any more hits at this point. Is what I meant. And perhaps the"hit " wasn't as hard as everybody made it out to be. And perhaps this won't be a hit at all and even a boost if he were to take a knee.

One thing is for sure is that the message, police brutality, is now completely lost. This is just become a solidarity thing against the president. Which is fine.

But I'd like to see the "police brutality" thing evolve into a healthy discussion on racism in the General. Because like I said the police on the street have very little to do with the deeper issues that create the deeper systemic issues racism and slavery created. many which have been brought up in these previous pages by various posters.

And that's where all the players and even the president can Bridge The Divide. Get this off the cops and onto the real deeper racial issues that we face. And that we need to continue to repair.

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

[cammac]

Guess Canadians aren't huge flag waivers except maybe Canada Day I see patriotism differently than most Americans in that I like what we do as a country for our citizens and our standing the the world community. Mind you in some countries I do wear something with a Canadian flag and always carry Canadian pins to give away to kids.