Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[nate33]

I don't recall if this trade has been discussed much, but I think a very plausible trade-down trade could be available with San Antonio.

I figure Sarr goes first (either Atlanta takes him or they trade out and someone else takes him).

San Antonio might really want Risacher at #2. They look to be angling to win now so they want a guy who is ready to play right away but also with some upside and Risacher makes good sense. (I think San Antonio wants Topic at #4 and isn't worried about Houston taking him.)

So San Antonio trades their #8 for our #2. What would they throw in?

They have their own pick in 2025, an unprotected ATL pick in 2025, a lotto protected CHA pick in 2025 (which turns into two SRP's in 2026) and a top 10 protected CHI pick in 2025. I think we can finagle that Atlanta pick straight up. Or maybe we work out some kind of deal where we get the best of those 4 picks that doesn't fall in the top 4, or something like that.

I like it because I think some good prospects will still be on the board at #8. I figure Sarr, Risacher and Topic will be gone. Clingan will be gone probably to Charlotte. Sheppard will go either to Houston or to Detroit if he lasts that long. So that still leaves at least one of Buzelis, Castle or Holland. And maybe two of three of them are there if Knecht or Dillingham go high.

But if we could turn #2 into Castle, Holland or Buzelis plus a pick likely to be in the 10-16 range next year, I'd definitely do it.

I wouldn't do that trade Nate. The going rate for trading within the top 5 is one future 1st (Philly & Boston (3 going to 1) in the Tatum/Simmons trade as well as Atlanta/Dallas (5 going to 3) in the Luka/Trae trade). The 2nd pick going to the 8th pick requires more than one future 1st. I'd be interested in trading down, but I'd need at least two future 1sts to go down from 2 all the way to 8.

I don't think "the going rate" applies in a draft with so little separation among the top prospects. Also, I'm talking about getting back a FRP in the top half of a strong draft. This isn't the #26 pick we're getting back.

[DCZards]

Unless you think Deni has another increase n performance in him the size of the one last year, I could see trading Deni and #26 to Atlanta for the #1 pick and building around Sarr and Risacher the way Orlando has built around Banchero and Wagner. Deni's an excellent fit with them. We deal the sure thing for the high end risk, they deal the risk for the sure thing.

Deni may never be a “star” but he’s well on his way to being a damn good, all-around NBA player.

Not every player on a contending team is going to be an all-star. As I've said before, you need a few vets sprinkled in with your 20-25 yr olds if you’re going to contend. I see the 28-29 year old Deni potentially being that vet for the Zards

Plus, the Zards may get a player with the 26th pick who turns out to be as good as the #1 pick.

[payitforward]

Give me Giddey and this years 12th pick, plus Phillys '25 pick for Kuzma. Philly's pick is top 6 protected, they have a ton of cap room and are going to go for it so the pick will be in the teens.

I like it! Except salaries don't work.

That’s an insane overpay.
I think a straight up swap of Kuzma for Giddey is fair value.

An overpay on OKC's part you mean. It sure is!

Even the straight up swap you propose tilts in our favor. For that matter, Kuz for either of the R1 picks you mention, on its own, is a deal I would snap up happily.

Where people get the idea that Kuz is worth multiple picks and players...? Beyond me!

[payitforward]

I’ve advocated for Jovic and that exact deal on a number of occasions. Sign me up.

15 gives you a great shot at our guy, Dadiet.

So I'm now looking at it with Sarr at 2.

Everything I see shows Dadiet considerably lower, should still be there at 26. I might take a flier on Salaun if he's there at 15. (If its not Sarr at 2 I'm looking Ware or Missi at 15).

I might actually see if NY wants to move up (15 for 24 & 25). I'd have a field day Dadiet (24), Carrington (25), Cam Christie (26). At 35 I'll take Ryan Dunn. And lastly at 51 I'll go with Izan Almansa.

Roster:
C - Sarr, Vukcevic, Almansa
PF- Avdija, Bagley, Baldwin
SF- Jovic, Dunn, Dadiet
SG- Coulibaly, Kispert, Christie
PG- Poole, Butler, Carrington

Let the rebuild commence!

Alright, build that roster, give it a year under Keefe to develop and team build. And then drop in Cooper Flagg.

Fun!
But... 15 probably isn't enough to give for 24 & 25. Still... 5 rookies!! Right up my alley!

[payitforward]

...Two frp's for Kuz match....

That's dreaming it seemes to me....

Of course I'd rather you be right than I be right!

[payitforward]

...I'd much rather have a pick than an accused pedo ....

Keep it above the belt, Dat. The police & the NBA both cleared him. There's no evidence of any wrong doing on his part.

Giddey is all of 21 years old. Not hard to imagine him mistaking the age of a good-looking 16 year old girl. Not brilliant on his part either, don't get me wrong....

As to his play, here's Presti on Giddey -- https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/sam-presti-assesses-josh-giddey-s-performance-and-future-in-oklahoma-city-01hz123a0cd8

[NatP4]

21 years old averaging 18 points 7 assists 9 rebounds per 36 on 54.7% TS as the starting PG on a 57 win team.

Post-ASB (27 games/700 minutes) per 36: 19.8 points 9.9 rebounds 7.7 assists 1.0 steals 1.0 blocks 3.3 turnovers. 36% from 3, 59.7% TS. 2nd on the team in On/Off differential behind SGA.

Giddey would easily go top 5 in this draft if he were still in the NBL right now.

[nate33]

...I'd much rather have a pick than an accused pedo ....

Keep it above the belt, Dat. The police & the NBA both cleared him. There's no evidence of any wrong doing on his part.

Giddey is all of 21 years old. Not hard to imagine him mistaking the age of a good-looking 16 year old girl. Not brilliant on his part either, don't get me wrong....

As to his play, here's Presti on Giddey -- https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/sam-presti-assesses-josh-giddey-s-performance-and-future-in-oklahoma-city-01hz123a0cd8

Giddey was 19 when the incident allegedly happened. The girl was either 16 or 15. Reports vary and no official announcement has been made. Giddey's camp reports that she lied about her age and Giddey cut it off as soon as he found out she was in high school.

The bottom line is we don't really know enough details to say with conviction that he broke the law. And the cops evidently couldn't make a determination either (though it's certainly possible that Giddey paid the family off somehow).

In my personal opinion, if he knowingly had sex with a 15-year-old at the age of 19, that makes him a creep who takes advantage of a power disparity with a women, but not necessarily a "pedophile". I think of pedophilia as attraction to prepubescent women. It's completely normal for a 19-year-old teenage to be attracted to a 15-year-old teenager, particularly if she looked like she was 16 or 17. Hell, a 19-year-old marrying a 15-year old was pretty much the norm throughout the history of civilization until about 100 years ago. Nobody considered them sexual deviants.

[NatP4]

The bottom line is we don't really know enough details to say with conviction that he broke the law. And the cops evidently couldn't make a determination either (though it's certainly possible that Giddey paid the family off somehow)..

Is that even fair to speculate on? There was never an accusation or charges. The investigations related to social media posts and concluded with a specific statement of “there was no evidence of wrongdoing/criminal activity” from the police.

People have to move on from this and Giddey needs to exercise better judgment in the future.

[nate33]

The bottom line is we don't really know enough details to say with conviction that he broke the law. And the cops evidently couldn't make a determination either (though it's certainly possible that Giddey paid the family off somehow)..

Is that even fair to speculate on? There was never an accusation or charges. The investigations related to social media posts and concluded with a specific statement of “there was no evidence of wrongdoing/criminal activity” from the police.

People have to move on from this and Giddey needs to exercise better judgment in the future.

I think it's fair to speculate on. It's only speculation. I am not asserting it as fact.

I'm not naive. These guys are millionaires and winners of the genetic lottery who have women throw themselves at them at clubs every night. Meanwhile, they are young and impulsive (as young people generally are), and are generally used to the normal rules not applying to them. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there is some hush money paid from time to time to avoid embarrassing situations.

[prime1time]

21 years old averaging 18 points 7 assists 9 rebounds per 36 on 54.7% TS as the starting PG on a 57 win team.

Post-ASB (27 games/700 minutes) per 36: 19.8 points 9.9 rebounds 7.7 assists 1.0 steals 1.0 blocks 3.3 turnovers. 36% from 3, 59.7% TS. 2nd on the team in On/Off differential behind SGA.

Giddey would easily go top 5 in this draft if he were still in the NBL right now.

How do you make sense of the fact that Giddey saw his minutes drastically reduced in the Mavs series? He averaged 12.7 minutes a game. Also, it's apples to oranges to talk about drafting Giddey top 5 overall. The reality is that OKC is in win now mode and has to make a decision over whether to extend, trade or lose Giddey for nothing right now.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

...I'd much rather have a pick than an accused pedo ....

Keep it above the belt, Dat. The police & the NBA both cleared him. There's no evidence of any wrongdoing on his part.

Giddey is all of 21 years old. Not hard to imagine him mistaking the age of a good-looking 16 year old girl. Not brilliant on his part either, don't get me wrong....

As to his play, here's Presti on Giddey -- https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/sam-presti-assesses-josh-giddey-s-performance-and-future-in-oklahoma-city-01hz123a0cd8

When I was 21, I briefly dated a 17-year-old. She had a 2-year-old. Despite the ages she had me like a puppet on a string.

In 2021, Giddey was 19 when he met a 16-year-old girl who had lied about her age. He met her at a club. They had a one-night stand.

That's much ado about nothing.


Sent from my SM-A146U using RealGM mobile app

[NatP4]

21 years old averaging 18 points 7 assists 9 rebounds per 36 on 54.7% TS as the starting PG on a 57 win team.

Post-ASB (27 games/700 minutes) per 36: 19.8 points 9.9 rebounds 7.7 assists 1.0 steals 1.0 blocks 3.3 turnovers. 36% from 3, 59.7% TS. 2nd on the team in On/Off differential behind SGA.

Giddey would easily go top 5 in this draft if he were still in the NBL right now.

How do you make sense of the fact that Giddey saw his minutes drastically reduced in the Mavs series? He averaged 12.7 minutes a game. Also, it's apples to oranges to talk about drafting Giddey top 5 overall. The reality is that OKC is in win now mode and has to make a decision over whether to extend, trade or lose Giddey for nothing right now.

Makes perfect sense to me. Out of the 9 or so players that received rotation minutes in the playoffs for OKC: Giddey is the 2nd youngest behind Cason Wallace. He’s still developing as a player.

OKC is a 57 win 1 seed with a legit MVP candidate trying to win on the biggest stage.

Only Vukcevic and Coulibaly would be younger than Giddey on the Wiz roster.

[prime1time]

The Giddey/OKC situation is a perfect example of how good organizations operate. It would be organizational malpractice to let Giddey sabotage another playoff run. So the chances of Giddey getting an extension are next to none. Not after he was reduced to a bench player against the Mavs. The Mavs series drastically reduced to the trade value for Giddey. Over. the course of 7 games he's gone from a succesful draft pick who's still working on their jumper to disappointing draft pick who will not get an extension.

Regardless of the data set you dig up, the reality is that OKC - the team that sees him day-in and day-out, had so little faith in him that they benched him. They thought he was such a detriment to winning that they'd be better off benching him and destroying his trade value than playing him. Of course people on this board can't make sense of a reality where a team would rather have Kuzma than Giddey.

You can already here the frustated stammers, "Giddey's a better player look at the stats." Ignoring the fact that "better" in this situation is not an objective deterimination but rather based on the preconceived way they see the game. Nevertheless, OKC is simply trying to find a player who fits their current roster best. Fit is determined from both a money perspective, a skillset perspective, a personality perspective and an availability perspective.

Perhaps there are other players who would be better fits than Kuzma...but are they available? Are they on an affordable contract? If OKC thinks that Kuzma fits their team why wouldn't they trade 2 first round picks and Giddey? They have like a bajillion first round picks. They clearly can't use them all. And the roster is ready to win now. I've read reports that the Mavs were willing to give up two first round picks for Kuz. So yes, I stand by my initial statement.

[prime1time]

...I'd much rather have a pick than an accused pedo ....

Keep it above the belt, Dat. The police & the NBA both cleared him. There's no evidence of any wrongdoing on his part.

Giddey is all of 21 years old. Not hard to imagine him mistaking the age of a good-looking 16 year old girl. Not brilliant on his part either, don't get me wrong....

As to his play, here's Presti on Giddey -- https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/sam-presti-assesses-josh-giddey-s-performance-and-future-in-oklahoma-city-01hz123a0cd8

When I was 21, I briefly dated a 17-year-old. She had a 2-year-old. Despite the ages she had me like a puppet on a string.

In 2021, Giddey was 19 when he met a 16-year-old girl who had lied about her age. He met her at a club. They had a one-night stand.

That's much ado about nothing.


Sent from my SM-A146U using RealGM mobile app

That might be your opinion, but there's a reason Giddey's didn't lead with the "I did it and it's no big deal defense." To be clear, if the allegations are true, they would be considered a serious crime that he could go to jail for...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You're right it's my opinion.

Weed possession was a serious allegation that led to prosecution.

I think it's insane to prosecute a 19-year old as a sex offender when they are within three years. If they met in HS and he was a senior and she a freshman; by summer we're talking criminal offense.

WTF

In Hawaii 16 is the age of consent. Four years age difference also is factored in.

Sent from my SM-A146U using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

The Giddey/OKC situation is a perfect example of how good organizations operate. It would be organizational malpractice to let Giddey sabotage another playoff run. So the chances of Giddey getting an extension are next to none. Not after he was reduced to a bench player against the Mavs. The Mavs series drastically reduced to the trade value for Giddey. Over. the course of 7 games he's gone from a succesful draft pick who's still working on their jumper to disappointing draft pick who will not get an extension.

Regardless of the data set you dig up, the reality is that OKC - the team that sees him day-in and day-out, had so little faith in him that they benched him. They thought he was such a detriment to winning that they'd be better off benching him and destroying his trade value than playing him. Of course people on this board can't make sense of a reality where a team would rather have Kuzma than Giddey.

You can already here the frustated stammers, "Giddey's a better player look at the stats." Ignoring the fact that "better" in this situation is not an objective deterimination but rather based on the preconceived way they see the game. Nevertheless, OKC is simply trying to find a player who fits their current roster best. Fit is determined from both a money perspective, a skillset perspective, a personality perspective and an availability perspective.

Perhaps there are other players who would be better fits than Kuzma...but are they available? Are they on an affordable contract? If OKC thinks that Kuzma fits their team why wouldn't they trade 2 first round picks and Giddey? They have like a bajillion first round picks. They clearly can't use them all. And the roster is ready to win now. I've read reports that the Mavs were willing to give up two first round picks for Kuz. So yes, I stand by my initial statement.

Of course by now I don't remember what your initial statement was!

Wait...! I do remember -- & I would still rather you were right than I.

OTOH, I'm pretty sure that what Sam Presti says about Giddey is closer to reality than what you write here -- take a look & tell us what you think: https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/sam-presti-assesses-josh-giddey-s-performance-and-future-in-oklahoma-city-01hz123a0cd8

[prime1time]

The Giddey/OKC situation is a perfect example of how good organizations operate. It would be organizational malpractice to let Giddey sabotage another playoff run. So the chances of Giddey getting an extension are next to none. Not after he was reduced to a bench player against the Mavs. The Mavs series drastically reduced to the trade value for Giddey. Over. the course of 7 games he's gone from a succesful draft pick who's still working on their jumper to disappointing draft pick who will not get an extension.

Regardless of the data set you dig up, the reality is that OKC - the team that sees him day-in and day-out, had so little faith in him that they benched him. They thought he was such a detriment to winning that they'd be better off benching him and destroying his trade value than playing him. Of course people on this board can't make sense of a reality where a team would rather have Kuzma than Giddey.

You can already here the frustated stammers, "Giddey's a better player look at the stats." Ignoring the fact that "better" in this situation is not an objective deterimination but rather based on the preconceived way they see the game. Nevertheless, OKC is simply trying to find a player who fits their current roster best. Fit is determined from both a money perspective, a skillset perspective, a personality perspective and an availability perspective.

Perhaps there are other players who would be better fits than Kuzma...but are they available? Are they on an affordable contract? If OKC thinks that Kuzma fits their team why wouldn't they trade 2 first round picks and Giddey? They have like a bajillion first round picks. They clearly can't use them all. And the roster is ready to win now. I've read reports that the Mavs were willing to give up two first round picks for Kuz. So yes, I stand by my initial statement.

Of course by now I don't remember what your initial statement was!

Wait...! I do remember -- & I would still rather you were right than I.

OTOH, I'm pretty sure that what Sam Presti says about Giddey is closer to reality than what you write here -- take a look & tell us what you think: https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/sam-presti-assesses-josh-giddey-s-performance-and-future-in-oklahoma-city-01hz123a0cd8

No GM is going to go on record and destroy a players value. But my analysis is correct. Just read what was written in the article lol.

With only three seasons under his belt, saying there isn't room for Giddey to get back on track would be a lie. Not every player goes through a natural up and down curve throughout their career, down seasons can happen at any point. But a down season doesn't necessarily mean he is declining, it just means there's more he needs to add to keep improving.

The fit is still another issue, though. In the playoffs it seemed as if Giddey played worse when he was alongside Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and hurt the starting lineup's offensive capabilites overall with his inability to space the floor and impact the game without the ball in his hands. A bench role suited his skill set much better, even if it didn't translate into wins.

If this all went down in the second year rather than the third year it would be a different story. But it didn't. Now they have to make decisions about Giddey's future with the team. He has a style of play that does not match-up with the star player on the team. Even f they keep him nothing changes. He needs to improve his 3-point shooting. And not 4 years from now or two years from now but right now. Because the team is ready to win right now. Let's see what happens this offseason.

[DCZards]

The Giddey/OKC situation is a perfect example of how good organizations operate. It would be organizational malpractice to let Giddey sabotage another playoff run. So the chances of Giddey getting an extension are next to none. Not after he was reduced to a bench player against the Mavs. The Mavs series drastically reduced to the trade value for Giddey. Over. the course of 7 games he's gone from a succesful draft pick who's still working on their jumper to disappointing draft pick who will not get an extension.

Regardless of the data set you dig up, the reality is that OKC - the team that sees him day-in and day-out, had so little faith in him that they benched him. They thought he was such a detriment to winning that they'd be better off benching him and destroying his trade value than playing him. Of course people on this board can't make sense of a reality where a team would rather have Kuzma than Giddey.

You can already here the frustated stammers, "Giddey's a better player look at the stats." Ignoring the fact that "better" in this situation is not an objective deterimination but rather based on the preconceived way they see the game. Nevertheless, OKC is simply trying to find a player who fits their current roster best. Fit is determined from both a money perspective, a skillset perspective, a personality perspective and an availability perspective.

Perhaps there are other players who would be better fits than Kuzma...but are they available? Are they on an affordable contract? If OKC thinks that Kuzma fits their team why wouldn't they trade 2 first round picks and Giddey? They have like a bajillion first round picks. They clearly can't use them all. And the roster is ready to win now. I've read reports that the Mavs were willing to give up two first round picks for Kuz. So yes, I stand by my initial statement.

Of course by now I don't remember what your initial statement was!

Wait...! I do remember -- & I would still rather you were right than I.

OTOH, I'm pretty sure that what Sam Presti says about Giddey is closer to reality than what you write here -- take a look & tell us what you think: https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/sam-presti-assesses-josh-giddey-s-performance-and-future-in-oklahoma-city-01hz123a0cd8

Of course Presti would say that. He doesn't want to diminish Giddey's trade value nor does he want to hurt his confidence in the event he remains in OKC.

Fact is that OKC has a greater need for Kuz's size and rebounding than they do for Giddey, who has already been replaced by Cason Wallace. Cason is a better 3pt shooter and a much better defender than Giddey...and a better off ball player than Giddey, which makes him a better fit next to SGA and Jalen Williams.

I actually think that OKC would give us Giddey and a late first round pick (or future first round pick) for Kuz.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Is there any way to trade Poole to Minnesota?

As preposterous as this sounds, is there any trade feasible involving Poole and Kuzma for Towns? Karl Anthony Towns is definitely overpaid, but I think with Vukcevic being an elite shooter and passer that they could instantly be a decent front court.

I don't like KAT that much, but I think he's a good buy low at the moment.