Bean Burrito / Nick Young Appreciation Thread.

[Ed Wood]

At no point in his career has Michael Redd been known for his defense being solid; unless solid in this case means not transparent but Very Bad. Nevertheless, veteran minimums have been spent on far worse.

[TheBigThree]

As we've seeing first hand, being "2 years removed" from anything is generally reason enough to stay away.

[miller31time]

At no point in his career has Michael Redd been known for his defense being solid; unless solid in this case means not transparent but Very Bad. Nevertheless, veteran minimums have been spent on far worse.

Well, he was drafted by Milwaukee based on his defense prowess and not his scoring ability. It appears you're right that his NBA career hasn't really been dictated by strong defense.

[miller31time]

As we've seeing first hand, being "2 years removed" from anything is generally reason enough to stay away.

Vet's minimum (Redd) vs. max contract (Gilbert)

[Hoopalotta]

What is Redd's contract situation like now?

His contract situation is like, "So, I hear you're in the market for a chucker on the cheap, yeah?"

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I've always liked Redd. Makes sense given Ernie drafted him. If healthy, I'd rather have Redd at the min vs NY at 9 per.

[dangermouse]

At no point in his career has Michael Redd been known for his defense being solid; unless solid in this case means not transparent but Very Bad. Nevertheless, veteran minimums have been spent on far worse.

He came into the league as a stopper, and ended up becoming a scorer/3pt specialist.

I cant remember who it was but years ago, pre-injury, someone in the Bucks org. at the time actually told him one day he would be better than Ray Allen... I dont think he would have been quite that good.

[dangermouse]

I've always liked Redd. Makes sense given Ernie drafted him. If healthy, I'd rather have Redd at the min vs NY at 9 per.

Even with the health issues I think id rather give him a run here than overpay for Nick. Getting a new face in might be good and another vet, a big name vet, might help the youngin's develop.

[Hoopalotta]

If healthy, I'd rather have Redd at the min vs NY at 9 per.

I'd go further yet - about the only health situations I can think of where I'd rather have Nick at $9 million versus Redd at the minimum is if Redd were carrier for an easily-transmutable pathogenic agent of the life threatening variety. Even then, I'd do my due diligence on outbreak containment with surgical masks, vacuum chambers and ultraviolet lights before inking Nick to $9 million per annum on a multi-year deal.

[nate33]

Nick doesn't fix anything with this team. He's not an impact player. He'd be a good guy to have on the bench or as a 4th option. Sign him to the right price or let him go -- whether he's on the roster will have no effect on the team's prospects this year.

I can't agree with that statement.

Young became a starter after the Arenas trade. He hurt his knee in practice 29 games later after the Cleveland game on February 13th. During that time frame, he was the number one scoring option for the team. As a number 1 option, he averaged 20.7 points per game (in 38 minutes) with a TS% of .537 on a team where nobody else could score. He averaged just 1.7 turnovers a game.

For comparison, the year before, with essentially the same team, Antawn Jamison averaged 20.5 points per game (in 38 minutes) with a TS% of .528. with 1.5 turnovers. Basically, Young was just as good as Jamison offensively, and significantly better defensively. The only thing Jamison has over Young is durability.

I'm not saying that Young deserves $9M a year, or even $7M, but losing him WILL affect the team's prospects this year. The team will be worse.

[Nivek]

What does "worse" mean? Last season, his on/off numbers suggest he didn't help the team at either end. No significant change, either better or worse.

With Young, they figure to win maybe 20 games this season. How many fewer games will they win because Young isn't on the team? 1 or 2? Maybe.

And we've been through Young's game log from last season a few times. His efficiency started dropping as soon as he got into the starting lineup -- well before he got hurt. He's not a first option for anyone except an awful team. Ideally, he's a third option as a starter, or a first option scorer off the bench.

Whether Young is re-signed or not, the Wizards final result will be the same: another trip to the lottery. I don't think Young even makes a difference when it comes to how many ping-pong balls they get in the lottery. He's not a difference-maker. Maybe he'll be a nice piece to have in 2-3 years when the team has more talent and he can play a role more suited to what he does well. Right now: nah. Not a difference maker.

[nate33]

He hurt himself on February 15th, the team lost the next 12 games that he played hurt until they finally shut him down. Take away those 12 games and his on/off numbers would have been substantially positive. His on/off numbers were positive in the two seasons prior to last as well.

Young certainly isn't a star player capable of leading this team to the playoffs. I can even buy the argument that we're better off tanking harder without Young and going for a top 3 pick rather than paying Young and finishing with the 8th pick. And I certainly agree that we shouldn't commit substantially more than MLE money for him. All I'm saying is that Young is much better than our other options at shooting guard and he provides a skill that this team desperately needs more than anything else: perimeter shooting. He's also our best defensive guard. The team will be worse without him.

[pancakes3]

Actually... mason looks like he's still got at least a season left in the tank.

[hands11]

He hurt himself on February 15th, the team lost the next 12 games that he played hurt until they finally shut him down. Take away those 12 games and his on/off numbers would have been substantially positive. His on/off numbers were positive in the two seasons prior to last as well.

Young certainly isn't a star player capable of leading this team to the playoffs. I can even buy the argument that we're better off tanking harder without Young and going for a top 3 pick rather than paying Young and finishing with the 8th pick. And I certainly agree that we shouldn't commit substantially more than MLE money for him. All I'm saying is that Young is much better than our other options at shooting guard and he provides a skill that this team desperately needs more than anything else: perimeter shooting. He's also our best defensive guard. The team will be worse without him.

I couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly the challenge.

This team still has holes and there are several ways to fill them moving forward. Losing Nick creates another hole but in filling it with Nick even for 1 year, you hurt your chances to get a higher picks to fill other holes.

Kind of between a rock and a hard place.

The key is the amount and length of the contract. I think the worst options are 1 year at the QO or 4 years at to much. If you are going to sign him, 2-4 years at the right price allow you to focus on drafting depending on best available player who is also smart and mature in the mold of the last draft class and what you learn about what you got from the last draft class. Or via trade or FA.

A lot is riding on this Nick contract. I hope it works out for the Wizards.

[verbal8]

If healthy, I'd rather have Redd at the min vs NY at 9 per.

I'd go further yet - about the only health situations I can think of where I'd rather have Nick at $9 million versus Redd at the minimum is if Redd were carrier for an easily-transmutable pathogenic agent of the life threatening variety. Even then, I'd do my due diligence on outbreak containment with surgical masks, vacuum chambers and ultraviolet lights before inking Nick to $9 million per annum on a multi-year deal.

The combination of the Wiz medical staff and " an easily-transmutable pathogenic agent" could threaten the entire free world It sounds kind of like the beginning of a cheesy horror movie.

[Nivek]

Again, what does "worse" mean? Going from having say the league's 5th worst offense to having the 2nd worst offense (if Young's impact is even that dramatic) doesn't do it for me.

Signing him for this season doesn't hurt the team's chances of getting a higher draft pick -- they're going to lose with or without him.

[hands11]

Again, what does "worse" mean? Going from having say the league's 5th worst offense to having the 2nd worst offense (if Young's impact is even that dramatic) doesn't do it for me.

Signing him for this season doesn't hurt the team's chances of getting a higher draft pick -- they're going to lose with or without him.

That makes zero sense. When you are trying for the top pick, every game matters. Nick is enough to add some wins so he would affect the draft position.

[sashae]

I'm hard pressed to believe there will be a worse team in the league than the Wizards, this year, Nick Young or no Nick Young.

[verbal8]

I'm hard pressed to believe there will be a worse team in the league than the Wizards, this year, Nick Young or no Nick Young.

I think Cleveland, Toronto and Minnesota will be worse. There probably will be one or two teams decimated by injuries. I could see Detroit being worse, but after that most teams seem quite a bit better.

[hands11]

I'm hard pressed to believe there will be a worse team in the league than the Wizards, this year, Nick Young or no Nick Young.

Toronto ?
Cleveland ?