NBA Games Discussion Thread

[GhostsOfGil]

O ****! 1 point game! This 4th quarter is nuts!

edit* Wayne Ellington with a big time miss. Terrible shot.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Cavs up 21 at half against the Heat without Irving and Waiters?

Heat can't guard the paint.

Byron Scott must not have like the 12 points and 11 rebounds. Tyler Zeller only played 23 minutes.

(I've never thought Scott is a good coach.)

[Ruzious]

Yeah, was Zeller hurt, because he had those 23 minutes before Miami made their run. Otherwise, it seems bizarre he didn't get back into the game. Granted, he had 4 fouls, last I checked - it takes 6 to get tossed. Cleveland must have set a record for the speed in which they lost a 27 point lead well into the 3rd quarter... at home... going against the player who spurned your franchise. 27 points... bow down and be tankful.

[Nivek]

At halftime, someone tweeted that Cleveland had a 70% chance of winning the game at that point. I tweeted back that if I was betting, I'd put my money on the Heat. Then I went back to family stuff. Next thing I heard, the Heat had cut the lead to 12. Next thing I heard after that, they'd won. Wow.

By the way, I took my PPA stat and experimented with some different ways to look at the number. The one I liked best was the player's production as a percentage of the average team's production. So, if the average team's production is X, it's comprised of players producing a percentage of X.

Anyway, Lebron is at the top of the heap, of course. Through Sunday's games, Lebron by himself produces per minute 54% of what an average TEAM produces per minute. Chris Paul is 2nd at 50%. The next few: Durant, Duncan, Parker, Blake Griffin, Wade, Tyson Chandler.

Wizards:

1. Okafor -- 29%
2. Webster -- 24%
3. Wall -- 24%
4. Nene -- 23%
5. Ariza -- 21%
6. Beal -- 20%
7. Booker -- 17%
8. Price -- 17%
9. Temple -- 10%
10. Martin -- 9%
11. Singleton -- 7%
12. Seraphin -- 3%
13. Vesely -- 1%

League average is 20%, of course.

[deneem4]

Rose gonna return for the heat game...

[queridiculo]

Nivek, interesting numbers.

Not much of a stats guy, but would it be too much to ask to explain how, given the similarities in production between Wall and Paul, the PPA is so much in favor of Chris Paul?

[tontoz]

Nivek, interesting numbers.

Not much of a stats guy, but would it be too much to ask to explain how, given the similarities in production between Wall and Paul, the PPA is so much in favor of Chris Paul?

Actually their production isn't similar. Paul scores with much better efficiency, has a higher assist rate and a far lower turnover rate.

[Nivek]

Nivek, interesting numbers.

Not much of a stats guy, but would it be too much to ask to explain how, given the similarities in production between Wall and Paul, the PPA is so much in favor of Chris Paul?

Here's a comparison of Paul and Wall (through Sunday's games) per 40 minutes. The stats are standardized to a 100-possession pace.*

Code: Select all

PER40   Paul    Wall
GMS     55      32
MPG     33.0    30.8
STA%    77%     73%
Usg     24.0%   28.3%
ortg    128     102
2pt%    .540    .454
3pt%    .337    .261
ft%     .896    .826
orb     0.9     0.8
drb     3.8     4.2
reb     4.7     4.9
ast     12.7    10.7
stl     3.1     1.9
blk     0.1     1.1
tov     2.8     5.0
pf      2.7     3.3
pts     22.0    21.7
PPA     255     119


STA% is basically an estimate of how many starters a player faces during his time on the court.

Paul shoots better from everywhere, commits about half as many turnovers, generates more assists, and gets significantly more steals. He also fouls less, though that's not much of a factor. Their rebounding is about the same. About the only thing Wall does better is block shots.

The way I account for defense, Wall has a slim edge on Paul.

* -- I standardize pace to 100 possessions because it helps when I want to compare players say from the 80s to a player today.

[Dat2U]

Yeah, John Wall's numbers don't approach Chris Paul's unless your only going by the last five games, or maybe even the month of March.

[GhostsOfGil]

JC just dropped 21 in a loss to MEM

[nate33]

JC just dropped 21 in a loss to MEM

He is posting a PER of 10.5 and an ORtg of 93 with the Celtics. He has done nothing whatsoever to make me regret unloading him.

Since the All Star Break, Garrett Temple is posting a PER of 9.5, and ORtg of 100.1, and is playing much better defense.

[Nivek]

Crawford also had 6 turnovers and an offensive rating of just 87 in that game. His PPA in Boston: 32. Which is below replacement level.

[Kanyewest]

Miami's streak is over. Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Breen were riding LeBron but the officials weren't. They didn't call a flagrant on Gibson when he grazed LeBron's necks and the announcers were upset. LeBron tried to throw an elbow at Boozer (who didn't even budge) and the announcers thought that it wasn't a flagrant. Miami then leaves without shaking hands (shocker!) and Jeff Van Gundy didn't say it was bad sportsmanship but instead "Teams should compete so hard against each other that at the end of the night it shouldn't be warm and friendly".

[queridiculo]

Lebron is still a baby.

Was nice to see a little throwback to 90s defense by the Bulls tonight.

[sfam]

Miami's streak is over. Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Breen were riding LeBron but the officials weren't. They didn't call a flagrant on Gibson when he grazed LeBron's necks and the announcers were upset. LeBron tried to throw an elbow at Boozer (who didn't even budge) and the announcers thought that it wasn't a flagrant. Miami then leaves without shaking hands (shocker!) and Jeff Van Gundy didn't say it was bad sportsmanship but instead "Teams should compete so hard against each other that at the end of the night it shouldn't be warm and friendly".

LeBron got manhandled in that game. Some of the fouls and no calls on him in that game were pretty rough. I totally understand them not shaking hands. That wasn't a pleasant game for them to play. I think I agree with Van Gundy on this.

[closg00]

Shevlin Mack played 27 minutes for ATL last night and did well according to the stats anyway.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278795

[montestewart]

Miami's streak is over. Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Breen were riding LeBron but the officials weren't. They didn't call a flagrant on Gibson when he grazed LeBron's necks and the announcers were upset. LeBron tried to throw an elbow at Boozer (who didn't even budge) and the announcers thought that it wasn't a flagrant. Miami then leaves without shaking hands (shocker!) and Jeff Van Gundy didn't say it was bad sportsmanship but instead "Teams should compete so hard against each other that at the end of the night it shouldn't be warm and friendly".

LeBron got manhandled in that game. Some of the fouls and no calls on him in that game were pretty rough. I totally understand them not shaking hands. That wasn't a pleasant game for them to play. I think I agree with Van Gundy on this.

I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. I didn't see the whole game, but I just watched highlights containing the key contact plays that are apparently at issue (maybe previous plays missing from these highlights heated things up). I saw LeBJ try to run over a pretty well set Hinrich, who hung on to keep from hitting the floor hard. I saw him hard elbow Boozer out of the way, with Boozer's response more posturing than anything else. I saw Taj hard foul him while making a play on the ball. Get used to it, that's how people try to stop you.

I didn't see him getting anything he doesn't give on a regular basis. LeBJ is so much faster and more agile than his opponents, and always seems a step ahead. After awhile, everyone--teammates, refs, press, even opponents--starts to think he's incapable of being at fault when there's contact, and so he just muscles his way into opponents, initiates contact, pushes people around. A bull in the china shop, and the foul is on the china shop. When his status quo meets anarchy, he makes a hissing sound.

[pancakes3]

It takes a strong foul to stop a strong person. He's hardly the first person to get knocked down by a defender trying to send a message. The inability to rise to the occasion and the manner with which he handles failure is so off-putting. It seems like every step he takes towards greatness is tainted by petulance.

[FAH1223]

Dirk just might will the Mavs to the 8th spot. He's returned to form lately.

[jivelikenice]

So Kyrie comes back and New Orleans and Vasquez just dominate them. Its too early, but I think in the near future a time will come when ppl look past Kyrie's ball handling and scoring and realize just how atrocious he is defensively and his inability to mke those around him much better. It almost seems like they play better or at least just as good when Dion is playing but Kyrie is out. I still think Kyrie is a very good player and has good potential, but the superstar talk came way to early and is a product of media and fans just loving scoring ability.