Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[Ed Wood]

Hmmm. What about pushing the reset button on Blatche and trading him for Anthony Randolph + filler (Azubuike)? The premise is that we have given up on Blatche ever being more than the dreaded "good player on a bad team", and instead, we're taking a chance on Randolph. NY considers it because Blatche has the size to be a center in NY's system. He could back up Amare and play the same kind of role, or he could play alongside Amare as a "stretch 5".

I'm not saying I want to do anything like that, Blatche hasn't really impressed this year but he's still not the team's biggest or most pressing problem and he's more likely than a number of other players on the team to be a net positive as a basketball player, but if you're gonna bail and start again with a younger guy in Randolph at least recognize that Magic has been even more disappointing so far this year and has had trouble fitting in with two organizations that seemed to have styles tailor made to his game and the Wizards should be looking to get additional value. Include a Cartier Martin for Landry Fields swap, something.

Nate, these Blatche trades are pretty bad. Have you had, uh, contact with Rico recently?

[LyricalRico]

Nate, these Blatche trades are pretty bad. Have you had, uh, contact with Rico recently?

Don't listen to 'em nate! You're absolutely on the right track with these deals. I'd love to do Randolph+Turiaf for Blatche. We get a guy that might have a higher ceiling that Blatche and a veteran backup center so we don't have to play Yi/Armstrong so much.

McGee/Turiaf
Randolph/Booker
Howard/Thornton
Arenas/Young
Wall/Hinrich

That rotation salvages our season IMO and gives us even more flexibility in 2012.

[lupin]

the knicks won't do it because they need a 1st for the Melo trade. aren't they planning to trade Randolph for a 1st? are you suggesting the Wiz give up that high lottery pick?

[LyricalRico]

the knicks won't do it because they need a 1st for the Melo trade. aren't they planning to trade Randolph for a 1st? are you suggesting the Wiz give up that high lottery pick?

I never said anything about a pick. Let NY figure it out. Maybe Denver wants Blatche in a Melo trade and would accept him in lieu of the pick.

[nate33]

Hmmm. What about pushing the reset button on Blatche and trading him for Anthony Randolph + filler (Azubuike)? The premise is that we have given up on Blatche ever being more than the dreaded "good player on a bad team", and instead, we're taking a chance on Randolph. NY considers it because Blatche has the size to be a center in NY's system. He could back up Amare and play the same kind of role, or he could play alongside Amare as a "stretch 5".

I'm not saying I want to do anything like that, Blatche hasn't really impressed this year but he's still not the team's biggest or most pressing problem and he's more likely than a number of other players on the team to be a net positive as a basketball player, but if you're gonna bail and start again with a younger guy in Randolph at least recognize that Magic has been even more disappointing so far this year and has had trouble fitting in with two organizations that seemed to have styles tailor made to his game and the Wizards should be looking to get additional value. Include a Cartier Martin for Landry Fields swap, something.

Nate, these Blatche trades are pretty bad. Have you had, uh, contact with Rico recently?

For the record, I'm not actually advocating a Blatche for Randolph trade, I'm just throwing it out there for discussion. Randolph has put up some nice numbers in the past, but there's got to be a good reason why Golden State was willing to dump him and I'm sure there's a good reason why he's in D'Antoni's doghouse posting a PER of 2.0. I don't profess to know all the behind-the-scenes issues with Randolph. Obviously, if he is the underachieving malcontent that some think he is, then we should refrain from making the trade.

In general, I'm coming around to the viewpoint that Blatche just can't be a top 4 player on a good team. He isn't efficient enough as a primary scoring option, and he isn't consistent enough with his effort and intangibles to be a quality role player. I suppose I should be a little more patient with him given his offseason injury, but I'm skeptical.

[lupin]

the knicks won't do it because they need a 1st for the Melo trade. aren't they planning to trade Randolph for a 1st? are you suggesting the Wiz give up that high lottery pick?

I never said anything about a pick. Let NY figure it out. Maybe Denver wants Blatche in a Melo trade and would accept him in lieu of the pick.

Of course you didn't, which was kind of my point. NY won't go for it then.

[Dat2U]

Hmmm. What about pushing the reset button on Blatche and trading him for Anthony Randolph + filler (Azubuike)? The premise is that we have given up on Blatche ever being more than the dreaded "good player on a bad team", and instead, we're taking a chance on Randolph. NY considers it because Blatche has the size to be a center in NY's system. He could back up Amare and play the same kind of role, or he could play alongside Amare as a "stretch 5".

I'm not saying I want to do anything like that, Blatche hasn't really impressed this year but he's still not the team's biggest or most pressing problem and he's more likely than a number of other players on the team to be a net positive as a basketball player, but if you're gonna bail and start again with a younger guy in Randolph at least recognize that Magic has been even more disappointing so far this year and has had trouble fitting in with two organizations that seemed to have styles tailor made to his game and the Wizards should be looking to get additional value. Include a Cartier Martin for Landry Fields swap, something.

Nate, these Blatche trades are pretty bad. Have you had, uh, contact with Rico recently?

For the record, I'm not actually advocating a Blatche for Randolph trade, I'm just throwing it out there for discussion. Randolph has put up some nice numbers in the past, but there's got to be a good reason why Golden State was willing to dump him and I'm sure there's a good reason why he's in D'Antoni's doghouse posting a PER of 2.0. I don't profess to know all the behind-the-scenes issues with Randolph. Obviously, if he is the underachieving malcontent that some think he is, then we should refrain from making the trade.

In general, I'm coming around to the viewpoint that Blatche just can't be a top 4 player on a good team. He isn't efficient enough as a primary scoring option, and he isn't consistent enough with his effort and intangibles to be a quality role player. I suppose I should be a little more patient with him given his offseason injury, but I'm skeptical.

I've been one of Randolph's biggest fans and he represents the type of risks Ernie should be taking with young, high upside players. Not the Yi's, & Thornton's of the world who have no chance of improving.

I wouldn't be willing to give up Blatche for him however. I'm not sure what represents good value for Randolph at the moment. He's gone from having enough value to fetch David Lee to rotting on the bench.

As far him having trouble fitting into two different organizations, I would say Nelson & D'Antoni are two of the most self-absorbed ego maniacs in the league. And two guys not afraid to hold grudges and play favorites. Both are offensive genius in their own right but they'd definitely let their system get in away of playing the most talented player. I honestly don't know what's going on in NY right now but last season, much like Blatche did, Randolph showed signs of truly breaking out. And like Blatche he's a highly skilled, versatile big capable of doing many different things on the court. He's more athletic, a better rebounder & finisher than Blatche although Dray is more accomplished from mid-range.

Would I give up a future 1st for Randolph? Maybe. It depends on the protection. I'm definitely not interested in giving up a lottery pick, in any year. I would consider giving up Booker too although Booker offers something we don't really have, I'm still not totally sold on Booker's long term upside.

[ErikChowbay023]

Randolph could realistically end up a lot like Odom. He needs to be given an opportunity though. He also needs a change of work ethic.

[Induveca]

Hmmm. What about pushing the reset button on Blatche and trading him for Anthony Randolph + filler (Azubuike)? The premise is that we have given up on Blatche ever being more than the dreaded "good player on a bad team", and instead, we're taking a chance on Randolph. NY considers it because Blatche has the size to be a center in NY's system. He could back up Amare and play the same kind of role, or he could play alongside Amare as a "stretch 5".

I'm not saying I want to do anything like that, Blatche hasn't really impressed this year but he's still not the team's biggest or most pressing problem and he's more likely than a number of other players on the team to be a net positive as a basketball player, but if you're gonna bail and start again with a younger guy in Randolph at least recognize that Magic has been even more disappointing so far this year and has had trouble fitting in with two organizations that seemed to have styles tailor made to his game and the Wizards should be looking to get additional value. Include a Cartier Martin for Landry Fields swap, something.

Nate, these Blatche trades are pretty bad. Have you had, uh, contact with Rico recently?

For the record, I'm not actually advocating a Blatche for Randolph trade, I'm just throwing it out there for discussion. Randolph has put up some nice numbers in the past, but there's got to be a good reason why Golden State was willing to dump him and I'm sure there's a good reason why he's in D'Antoni's doghouse posting a PER of 2.0. I don't profess to know all the behind-the-scenes issues with Randolph. Obviously, if he is the underachieving malcontent that some think he is, then we should refrain from making the trade.

In general, I'm coming around to the viewpoint that Blatche just can't be a top 4 player on a good team. He isn't efficient enough as a primary scoring option, and he isn't consistent enough with his effort and intangibles to be a quality role player. I suppose I should be a little more patient with him given his offseason injury, but I'm skeptical.

Randolph will only be traded for a first essentially. The Anthony situation is reaching a crisis point as we near 2011. Regardless, from what I've seen Randolph has ZERO strength and looks more like the next Keith Closs to me. He can't hold his position and is EXTREMELY weak.

We have Blatche at a great salary for what he can do, you're suggesting trading him for a guy who will give us 5 PPG/5 RPG on extremely inconsistent play. What you see with Randolph is what you get. He's regressing majorly, and had ample opportunity with the Knicks throughout the preseason and early in the year.

[Hoopalotta]

The only real deals I'd advocate as of now would be:

A) Some form of a BOYD. Moves where financial motivations are at play for the other team and we're bringing in picks or young players in conjunction with junk. I'd easily be willing to compromise the cap space for a respectable pick and any expiring we have is available to me.
B) Hinrich for something in an expiring would also be worth exploring. This works in conjunction with A in that we have more slack to take back dud salary.
C) As Fisher was laying out, a draft pick for Nick Young. I'm not saying we push it, but I'd definitely be listening if someone was offering.
D) For the right deal, I could accept trading a future 1st rounder with a few years of lottery protection. Not sure what that would be, but it would be on the table.
E) Gil for someone paid less money. Not realistic at this moment, but I'd be remiss to not mention it. Is there a Washington Post article these days with any sort of extended quotes from Gil where he sounds particularly enthused with his role here? He's trying not to tip the canoe, but he's got his eyes on foreign shores. Fair enough.

In theory I'd say a consolidation trade would be great, but I think we're still too far away as it's not likely that a team's going to give us a guy on a rookie contract for a collection of lesser talents. I also have no interest in getting anyone who would help us over the next few years but be likely to fade thereafter with Wall's rookie deal coming up. Guys like Gerald Wallace and Varejao are out for me as they aren't foundation pieces for where we're at. I realize we're dysfunctional to the point of compromising development, but I just can't advocate those Unseldian Pacer-Chaser moves. For this year, guy's who stink but play hard would be acceptable

Also, I'd rather just let the Dray situation play itself out as it might be that the poor visual evidence of his effort is related to the mobility issues. I think we could get assets comparable to what Dray's worth in financial trades and his value is more likely to go up than down anyway. I'd tentatively listen to offers if anyone's calling, but that's about it at this point as we're more likely to make a hole at power forward out of frustration than actually help ourselves with a Dray trade.

I like him, but Booker is a guy I'd strongly consider as sweetener in a financial type deal if someone was asking about him. I'd be willing there just based on his physical limitations and likely long term role as teams as bad as us should not be wedded to having a backup power forward of the future. Like I say, I wouldn't be shopping him, but he'd be a nice get for a team hard pressed financially and in need of front court depth as he can play and he's cheap for lot's of years. I'm not saying they have the assets, but teams that hate the tax line but want to win now like Utah, Atlanta or Charlotte would love them some Booker-T.

But to my view, the best trades for us now are in providing financial relief for someone by erasing their mistakes as I'm not sold on how 2012 free agency is going to play out, especially if the CBA sees the cap line come down.

[Dat2U]

Randolph will only be traded for a first essentially. The Anthony situation is reaching a crisis point as we near 2011. Regardless, from what I've seen Randolph has ZERO strength and looks more like the next Keith Closs to me. He can't hold his position and is EXTREMELY weak.

We have Blatche at a great salary for what he can do, you're suggesting trading him for a guy who will give us 5 PPG/5 RPG on extremely inconsistent play. What you see with Randolph is what you get. He's regressing majorly, and had ample opportunity with the Knicks throughout the preseason and early in the year.

I think your going way overboard. Keith Closs? Seriously? No doubt Randolph has had issues in NY but when healthy last year & his rookie year he showed a great deal of potential. Here's his per 36 numbers thus far.

Code: Select all

Season    Age G  GS  FG%  3P%  FT%  TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF  PTS  PER   TS% eFG%
2008-09    19 63 22 .462 .000 .716 11.6 1.6 1.3 2.4 2.6 4.5 15.9 16.9 .506 .462
2009-10    20 33  8 .443 .200 .801 10.3 2.0 1.3 2.5 2.4 4.4 18.5 18.7 .521 .445
2010-11    21 11  0 .273 .000 .600 10.8 2.5 1.1 2.5 2.9 4.7  8.6  6.5 .321 .273
Career       107 30 .446 .091 .753 11.1 1.8 1.3 2.4 2.5 4.5 16.5 17.0 .504 .447

For reference here's Andray's numbers:

Code: Select all

Season   Age G   GS  FG%  3P%  FT%  TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF  PTS  PER   TS% eFG%
2005-06   19 29   0 .388 .231 .833  7.8 2.1 1.0 1.4 2.5 7.4 13.4 10.1 .450 .410
2006-07   20 56  13 .437 .148 .612 10.1 2.1 0.9 1.7 2.6 5.0 10.9 12.1 .471 .447
2007-08   21 82  15 .474 .231 .695  9.1 2.0 1.1 2.5 2.4 5.5 13.3 15.5 .512 .477
2008-09   22 71  36 .471 .238 .704  8.0 2.5 1.1 1.6 2.5 4.5 15.1 15.0 .508 .475
2009-10   23 81  36 .478 .295 .744  8.1 2.7 1.4 1.1 2.9 3.5 18.2 17.6 .519 .485
2010-11   24 20  20 .441 .333 .802  7.9 1.8 1.2 0.5 2.9 2.9 17.5 14.5 .499 .447
Career      339 120 .467 .246 .723  8.5 2.3 1.2 1.5 2.6 4.4 15.4 15.5 .508 .472

[nate33]

Randolph will only be traded for a first essentially. The Anthony situation is reaching a crisis point as we near 2011. Regardless, from what I've seen Randolph has ZERO strength and looks more like the next Keith Closs to me. He can't hold his position and is EXTREMELY weak.

We have Blatche at a great salary for what he can do, you're suggesting trading him for a guy who will give us 5 PPG/5 RPG on extremely inconsistent play. What you see with Randolph is what you get. He's regressing majorly, and had ample opportunity with the Knicks throughout the preseason and early in the year.

I think your going way overboard. Keith Closs? Seriously? No doubt Randolph has had issues in NY but when healthy last year & his rookie year he showed a great deal of potential. Here's his per 36 numbers thus far.

Code: Select all

Season    Age G  GS  FG%  3P%  FT%  TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF  PTS  PER   TS% eFG%
2008-09    19 63 22 .462 .000 .716 11.6 1.6 1.3 2.4 2.6 4.5 15.9 16.9 .506 .462
2009-10    20 33  8 .443 .200 .801 10.3 2.0 1.3 2.5 2.4 4.4 18.5 18.7 .521 .445
2010-11    21 11  0 .273 .000 .600 10.8 2.5 1.1 2.5 2.9 4.7  8.6  6.5 .321 .273
Career       107 30 .446 .091 .753 11.1 1.8 1.3 2.4 2.5 4.5 16.5 17.0 .504 .447

For reference here's Andray's numbers:

Code: Select all

Season   Age G   GS  FG%  3P%  FT%  TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF  PTS  PER   TS% eFG%
2005-06   19 29   0 .388 .231 .833  7.8 2.1 1.0 1.4 2.5 7.4 13.4 10.1 .450 .410
2006-07   20 56  13 .437 .148 .612 10.1 2.1 0.9 1.7 2.6 5.0 10.9 12.1 .471 .447
2007-08   21 82  15 .474 .231 .695  9.1 2.0 1.1 2.5 2.4 5.5 13.3 15.5 .512 .477
2008-09   22 71  36 .471 .238 .704  8.0 2.5 1.1 1.6 2.5 4.5 15.1 15.0 .508 .475
2009-10   23 81  36 .478 .295 .744  8.1 2.7 1.4 1.1 2.9 3.5 18.2 17.6 .519 .485
2010-11   24 20  20 .441 .333 .802  7.9 1.8 1.2 0.5 2.9 2.9 17.5 14.5 .499 .447
Career      339 120 .467 .246 .723  8.5 2.3 1.2 1.5 2.6 4.4 15.4 15.5 .508 .472

Just a small point: these numbers aren't pace-adjusted. He played at a high pace in his Golden State days. If you adjust for pace, the numbers drop a bit:

Code: Select all

randolph,  PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO   PF eFG%  TS%  PER
2008-09   15.2 11.1  1.5  1.3  2.3  2.5  4.3 .464 .509 17.3
2009-10   17.2  9.6  1.9  1.3  2.3  2.2  4.1 .445 .521 18.8

Nevertheless, Dat2U's point stands. Those don't look like the numbers of Keith Closs.

[fugop]

I'd really like to get Patrick Patterson. Aside from the chemistry issues (how nice is it to denote something positive with that phrase?), he's just a smart player. He did everything he was asked at Kentucky, from running the offense through the post his first two years to developing decent three point range as a junior. He's got decent size, athleticism, and a solid skillset. His only real negative is mediocre rebounding numbers.

He's lost in the shuffle in Houston, though he was just called back up from the D league a few days ago. They'll probably try to use him at C, or in the frontcourt with Scola, but they've got a dozen other bigs on their roster. If I had any idea why Houston was struggling so much this year, I'd probably be spamming trades left and right. But I don't actually have a good idea of what's wrong down there, and it doesn't seem like they do either.

[DallasShalDune]

Randolph could realistically end up a lot like Odom. He needs to be given an opportunity though. He also needs a change of work ethic.

Blatche has more of a chance to be like Odom, in my opinion. He has definitively shown flashes, while Randolph has shown a lot less in his years in the L.

[queridiculo]

Blatche lacks the athleticism, energy level and bbal IQ to be anything close to Odom. If anything he'll be a poor man's Jamison with only a fraction of El Capitans professionalism.

[Ruzious]

He'd have the athleticism if he would just get in shape. The injury he had is an excuse, but at some point, excuses just don't cut it anymore. We have to assume he is what he... is - a very capable but inefficient player who makes a lot of poor decisions, doesn't work hard to stay in shape, and just doesn't have a winning attitude. The guy is still not in shape.

Blatche's problems are embematic of the team's - from the GM on down. EG said he's not going to evaluate the team until everyone's healthy. How many consecutive years have we heard that same line? At some point, you can't use that as an excuse. Get players who have good work habits. They tend to not get injured as often and recover quicker.

[nate33]

It's worth noting that Blatche has been an iron man. He missed just 11 games in the last 3 seasons (well, 12, but one was a suspension). And he managed to play all but 2 games this year despite a serious foot injury in the offseason. Blatche has plenty of faults, but health isn't one of them.

That doesn't detract from your other point, though. Blatche could certainly work harder to increase his muscle mass, reduce body fat, and develop better conditioning.

[nate33]

Speaking of health, Nick Young has also been an iron man. He missed just 8 games last year (some were DNP-CD's) and he played all 82 his previous year. He's played every game this year as well.

We shouldn't overlook the durability of Blatche and Young when we contemplate trading them.

[Ruzious]

It's worth noting that Blatche has been an iron man. He missed just 11 games in the last 3 seasons (well, 12, but one was a suspension). And he managed to play all but 2 games this year despite a serious foot injury in the offseason. Blatche has plenty of faults, but health isn't one of them.

That doesn't detract from your other point, though. Blatche could certainly work harder to increase his muscle mass, reduce body fat, and develop better conditioning.

I agree. My point was for those who excuse his mediocre performance because he's not 100%.

And yes - kudos to Young for his durability and for getting himself in great shape - not to mention improving his game. He's been a pleasant surprise this season.

[ErikChowbay023]

Although I am not an advocate of trading Blatche for Randolph. I would still be interested in trying to acquire him.

Here are some highlights of one of his best games.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgyybTWnyaY[/youtube]