Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - 2011 Draft Thread 5

[Benjammin]

I think Barnes is a slightly bigger Calbert Cheaney. He'll be a useful NBA player but he won't be a star unless he learns how to take in to the rack and draw fouls.

+1. another overhyped draft story.

I strongly disagree. I think Barnes is a more assertive personality than Calbert (not a high bar to achieve). He is longer, and more of a pure 3 than Cheaney. I agree for Barnes to take the next step he needs to be able to penetrate and draw fouls better, but I could easily see him as the 4th best SF in the Association after LBJ, Durant, and Melo.

[montestewart]

BTW, if I were the Wiz mgmt, I would hire an outside consultant shooting specialist to work with Vesely and Singleton starting now. Pay him in full upfront so when the lockout occurs, he can still work with them.

add to that list: Booker, Seraphin, Wall, Crawford....

McGee, Blatche...

[montestewart]

BTW, if I were the Wiz mgmt, I would hire an outside consultant shooting specialist to work with Vesely and Singleton starting now. Pay him in full upfront so when the lockout occurs, he can still work with them.

add to that list: Booker, Seraphin, Wall, Crawford....

McGee, Blatche...

Arvis, Effries... (I think we still owe them some free lessons)

[Terpman]

EG has assembled possibly the WORST shooting team in NBA history. How much longer will we have to endure this joke of a GM? Wall better be shooting 2000 shots a day from 3pt land... We need some forwards that can shoot...
EG = clown.

[Dark Faze]

Barnes is attending Chris Pauls camp primarily for ball handling this summer..which is his biggest problem by far.

I anticipate at this point he will be a better shooting Luol Deng with less athleticism. He can't put the ball on the ground like Luol and he doesn't have his handle, but he has the potential to be a better shooter, more clutch and a good defender.

I've got my eyes on him and Gilchrist next year. I'm hoping Vesely can translate to PF, otherwise we'll have drafted a backup player at the #6 this year...we're drafting an SF for sure next year...

[The Consiglieri]

^^^ Yes I could see Spike Lee announcing "With the 17th pick, the Knicks select Iman Sh...shum....what Shumpert?!? What the f*ck!!"

In fairness to all the stick the Knicks are getting, I have been fiending for draft tidbits for more than a week, and one of the updates that kept hitting draft related rumor boards was that Shumpert was rapidly climbing draft boards since april, and much more rapidly in June, i read at least two different rumors suggesting that Shumpert had climbed from the mid 20's to as high as 10th overall. So him going to the knicks didn't surprise me, what surprised me was that the Knicks chose him with such fantastic defensive stoppers of huge value being available when they picked. I could see Shumpert becoming special, but I think the Knicks already had "athletic scorers" covered and needed guys that played a lil defense.

On the topic i just started I will add this, I was absolutely incensed to see the GD Heat got Norris Cole, that was infuriating. Down the line that could be as debilitating as the Celtics stealing Rondo several years ago.

[The Consiglieri]

EG has assembled possibly the WORST shooting team in NBA history. How much longer will we have to endure this joke of a GM? Wall better be shooting 2000 shots a day from 3pt land... We need some forwards that can shoot...
EG = clown.

EG took the two best evaluated players on the board at 6 and 18 by a country mile. Easily the two best. What should we have done, taken some shooters that don't have the talent to do much else ever in the NBA? We already had that in Young for several years (till last) where did that, or the prior incarnation of the Wizards take us? Nowhere.

EG is building a team from the bottom up. Yeah, we don't have many shooters right now, but did you honestly think the rebuild would be done after this off season? This team won 19, 26 and 23 games the past three years, and has spent the last two years offloading virtually any reliable vet we had for youth, and has started a program to build from scratch. They aren't done yet, and like, in my view, a smart team, they utilized this draft to land the best available talent that best matched what we're trying to do. A hyper Athletic big with the game to take advantage of Walls crazy speed and acceleration, and in Singleton, we got the best defensive player of the past two draft classes, and perhaps the fastest, a guy who has the reach of a freakishly tall center, great size, and huge potential, and best of all, everybody in this draft class has an incredible motor, great BBIQ, and great character to go with off the charts athleticism.

You take the best available talent when you lack talent and players (and in truth, we don't really know if any of the guys on the roster preceeding this draft, save Wall, will be here in three years, hence every position save PG was a need). We did that. There's nothing to piss on here, it should be a draft that's celebrated, there's a reason why every basketball source out there is praising the draft, pending what the players actually end up being capable of at the next level (something noone ever knows completely and fully), the consensus is we took the best talent on the board when we were set to pick, with both pick, and talent that fit our needs brilliantly. Yes the shooting problem is there, and was mentioned in the daily dime chat yesterday, and that will be addressed, but you don't force it in the draft if it isn't there, and on thursday night, it simply wasn't there. The picks we made, we're the right ones.

[Terpman]

At some point you have to stop reaching for the highest ceiling, boom or bust players, and start drafting guys with NBA-ready skills. If Vesely goes up against either of the Morris twins, he will get taken to school. Height doesn't make a basketball player - it helps, but at the end of the day, you have to be able to physically out-position another player inside and shoot the ball from more than 2 feet away.
Hope I'm wrong, but Vesely will probably end up costing Ernie his job.

[dobrojim]

At some point you have to stop reaching for the highest ceiling, boom or bust players, and start drafting guys with NBA-ready skills. If Vesely goes up against either of the Morris twins, he will get taken to school. Height doesn't make a basketball player - it helps, but at the end of the day, you have to be able to physically out-position another player inside and shoot the ball from more than 2 feet away.
Hope I'm wrong, but Vesely will probably end up costing Ernie his job.

Vesely just completed his THIRD year of playing against MEN in a PRO league
that has a higher level of talent than Div 1 NCAA. I wouldn't be so sure
he couldn't compete against college boys.

[jivelikenice]

At some point you have to stop reaching for the highest ceiling, boom or bust players, and start drafting guys with NBA-ready skills. If Vesely goes up against either of the Morris twins, he will get taken to school. Height doesn't make a basketball player - it helps, but at the end of the day, you have to be able to physically out-position another player inside and shoot the ball from more than 2 feet away.
Hope I'm wrong, but Vesely will probably end up costing Ernie his job.

McGee & Blatche were projects. Vesely is talented and has upside but he has performed well against competition far superior to NCAA ball. Who would you rather have taken at 6?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Terpman, I've thought about it a couple days and I agree with you, 100%.

Faried will be a much better player than Singleton or Vesely.

Ernie got length and maturity and toughness, but he filled positions where he's already got starters that will not be displaced this season. Mack won't be an exceptional NBA player. He might be a solid backup. Singleton will be a good player but never great. I think the Washington will be lucky if he turns into a stronger Tayshaun Prince--but that will take a couple years. Vesely, IMO has the look of a guy who's going to find out that dunking on Euros and dunking on negroes (yeah, I went there because it rhymed) is two different things--they'll come back at you. I know Vesely will be a high-flier and a crowd pleaser, but the guy's not a shutdown cover guy and he's not a stud rebounder. I think he's going to be a give-and-take player. He'll give a highlight but he'll also be a lot like McGee--guys will come at him.

I think the draft night optimism and solid B grade and even a few A grades just don't take into consideration what other teams did. Miami added Cole--and I think he's leaps and bounds ahead of Mack. Their teams met three times. Cole scored 65 points (21.7), grabbed 19 rebounds(6.3), had 5 steals (1.7), and had 7 assists (2.3) and 7 turnovers (2.3). Mack's totals(avgs): 32 pts(10.7), 12 rebs(4.0), 1 stl(0.2), 11 asts(3.6), 9 tos(3.0).

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310072086
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310360325
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310642086

Mack is a guy who will defend and nail a three, but Cole is going to be a big-time stud on a Miami team that now has a complete PG. He plays well at both ends.

Boston added teammates JuJuan Johnson and E'Twuan Moore. Johnson will be a very good NBA scorer and he's just the type player the Cs need in their frontcourt. He is a complimentary scorer who will come in and get lots of open looks. Moore isn't a complete player but he's got deep range. Both of these guys can shoot. I predict Moore sticks in the NBA, too.

New Jersey added Brooks, who I personally think will be a stud scorer right away.

Folks are down on Cleveland for picking Tristan, but I think Tristan is an absolute stud defensively and will be a much better player than Vesely in time. Irving was the top pick and it wouldn't surprise me if despite not having Wall's athleticism that Irving doesn't run a team better and have altogether more effectiveness in immediately turning Cleveland around once Baron and Sessions are moved/benched.

My thoughts about the Wizards draft is they didn't get interior scoring and they didn't get better rebounding or better shooting (unless Mack displaces Crawford, Young, or Wall--and I don't see it). They got good, tough, wing defenders. Guys who can make life tougher for players like Melo, but they can't make them work hard defensively and they're a ways off being ready.

Sacramento added a bomber in Fredette to go along with a great slasher (Evans) and an emerging banger (Cousins). Shooting and rebounding are going to improve for that team.

Overall, this great draft will still result in a 30-35 win (max) team. Bye bye to Ernie and Flip is what I predict. Athleticism without skill, rebounding, or scoring efficiency will not translate to significantly more wins.

[FAH1223]

Terpman, I've thought about it a couple days and I agree with you, 100%.

Faried will be a much better player than Singleton or Vesely.

Ernie got length and maturity and toughness, but he filled positions where he's already got starters that will not be displaced this season. Mack won't be an exceptional NBA player. He might be a solid backup. Singleton will be a good player but never great. I think the Washington will be lucky if he turns into a stronger Tayshaun Prince--but that will take a couple years. Vesely, IMO has the look of a guy who's going to find out that dunking on Euros and dunking on negroes (yeah, I went there because it rhymed) is two different things--they'll come back at you. I know Vesely will be a high-flier and a crowd pleaser, but the guy's not a shutdown cover guy and he's not a stud rebounder. I think he's going to be a give-and-take player. He'll give a highlight but he'll also be a lot like McGee--guys will come at him.

I think the draft night optimism and solid B grade and even a few A grades just don't take into consideration what other teams did. Miami added Cole--and I think he's leaps and bounds ahead of Mack. Their teams met three times. Cole scored 65 points (21.7), grabbed 19 rebounds(6.3), had 5 steals (1.7), and had 7 assists (2.3) and 7 turnovers (2.3). Mack's totals(avgs): 32 pts(10.7), 12 rebs(4.0), 1 stl(0.2), 11 asts(3.6), 9 tos(3.0).

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310072086
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310360325
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310642086

Mack is a guy who will defend and nail a three, but Cole is going to be a big-time stud on a Miami team that now has a complete PG. He plays well at both ends.

Boston added teammates JuJuan Johnson and E'Twuan Moore. Johnson will be a very good NBA scorer and he's just the type player the Cs need in their frontcourt. He is a complimentary scorer who will come in and get lots of open looks. Moore isn't a complete player but he's got deep range. Both of these guys can shoot. I predict Moore sticks in the NBA, too.

New Jersey added Brooks, who I personally think will be a stud scorer right away.

Folks are down on Cleveland for picking Tristan, but I think Tristan is an absolute stud defensively and will be a much better player than Vesely in time. Irving was the top pick and it wouldn't surprise me if despite not having Wall's athleticism that Irving doesn't run a team better and have altogether more effectiveness in immediately turning Cleveland around once Baron and Sessions are moved/benched.

My thoughts about the Wizards draft is they didn't get interior scoring and they didn't get better rebounding or better shooting (unless Mack displaces Crawford, Young, or Wall--and I don't see it). They got good, tough, wing defenders. Guys who can make life tougher for players like Melo, but they can't make them work hard defensively and they're a ways off being ready.

Sacramento added a bomber in Fredette to go along with a great slasher (Evans) and an emerging banger (Cousins). Shooting and rebounding are going to improve for that team.

Overall, this great draft will still result in a 30-35 win (max) team. Bye bye to Ernie and Flip is what I predict. Athleticism without skill, rebounding, or scoring efficiency will not translate to significantly more wins.

I hope you're right. A new regime with a top 10 pick in a deep draft plus some cap space next season hopefully will be greeeeeeeeeeeat.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I also don't like the Vesely pick, but I'm keeping an open mind. His lack of skill at age 21 is concerning. But what do I know... I heard Flip actually compared him to KG, and he seems to have a good attitude.

I really liked Vucevic, even at 6 (he went 16). IMO very comparable to Kanter who everyone was drooling for. Vucevic actually played for USC, and I think was PAC10 POY and 2nd in country (to Faried) in rebounding. A true low post center measured better than Kanter, plays physical, a good athlete, strong fundamentals, and can shoot.

We needed a center to rotate with McGee, and Vucevic would of been perfect. I'm ok with Blatche, Booker and Lewis at PF, and don't really see as much need for a Vesely type. But I know they worked out Vucevic (Glen Consor said he stood out and did well), so I guess they felt sure Vesely was the better player.

I do LOVE the Singleton pick though.

I like Mack, but I'd still like to see Ben Hansbrough in camp!

[SUPERBALLMAN]

The talk about how bad we'll be offensively...

We can roll out an offensive unit of Blatche, Lewis, Young, Crawford, Wall which isn't too shabby. I actually wouldn't be shocked to see that as a starting 5.

If Vesely is viewed as a PF, that will probably push Blatche up to the 5 more often. In similar fashion Crawfors could push Young to more time at the 3.

Bring McGee and Vesely in as a momentum changer with highlight dunks, Booker and Singleton for toughness and D. Mack can be a solid G off the bench. I'd definitely bring back Evans. I wouldn't rule out Josh Howard for a min deal either if fully recovered.

And before I get crushed... I prefer a starting 5 along the lines McGee, Blatche, Singleton, Young, Wall. Vesely, Book, Lewis, Crawford off the bench. I'm just sayin I wouldn't be surprised to see Flip go smallball on us with Blatche, Lewis, Young, Crawford, Wall.

[DCZards]

Terpman, I've thought about it a couple days and I agree with you, 100%.

Faried will be a much better player than Singleton or Vesely.

I think you're dead wrong, CCJ. I can't speak on Vesely, because all I've really seen is highlights, but I've seen enough of Singleton to know that he has the potential to be a game changer on the defensive end. His length, motor and athleticism are off the charts. I also believe Singleton will work hard on his offensive game and turn out to be decent on that end of the court as well. Yes, Faried will likely be pretty good but EG made the absolute right choice in drafting Singleton.

Ernie got length and maturity and toughness, but he filled positions where he's already got starters that will not be displaced this season.

Length, maturity and toughness on a Wizard team that desperately needs all three traits. I LIKE IT!

Mack won't be an exceptional NBA player. He might be a solid backup. Singleton will be a good player but never great.

Is anyone really expecting Mack (a second round pick) to be an "exceptional NBA player?" I don't think so. I would be very, very happy to see him turn out to be "a solid backup" PG to the Zards exceptional starting PG.

Singleton will be good but not great? So what. How many "great" players are there in the NBA anyway?

I think the draft night optimism and solid B grade and even a few A grades just don't take into consideration what other teams did.

At this point, I'm only concerned about what one team--the Zards--did. And from all indications they had an excellent draft. Even in the opinion of those paid to report on such things.

Let's worry about Boston, Miami, Cleveland, etc. when the time comes. Just like the Zards, these teams, as well as their draft picks, also have their flaws and weaknesses.

[jivelikenice]

Its funny that people now are looking back and and playing monday morning qb when all is said & done. I think for where they drafted, they took the right players.

#6- Vesely was the right choice IMO. Thompson intrigued me but he was gone so that's a moot point. Kawhi slipped to 15 for a reason, and if you're going to call Vesely unskilled, what are you going to call Kawhi? I'm also amused by the Mcgee/ Vesely comparison. The HUGE difference between the two is that McGee forces bad shots, Vesely doesn't and will play within the confines of the team.

#18- Singleton was probably the highest rated player on their board and I respect them for sticking to the board. The only player I would have wanted in that spot was Brooks, but the value in Singleton was probably too great to pass up. By passing on Brooks, I also assume they are committed to bringing Nick Young back. Faried is a rebounding specialist and may be a good player, but a defensive wing specialist is a bigger need than a rebounding specialist. In addition to that, I think Singleton's upside is greater if he can continue to refine his offensive game. We also still have Booker who may not be the rebounder that Faried is, but was solid last year as a rookie and was drafted for this role. (Btw, I hope they now let Booker focus on playing PF)

#34- Love the Mack pick. He brings shooting and physicality to the pg spot. Comparing head to head stats also is a little misleading as that doesn't take into account systems and what a player is asked to to. Cole was off the board anyways so I really don't get the point of the comparison. If you think Cole is going to even have the opportunity to be a complete pg sharing the court with Lebron and Wade, its laughable...

We added good young talent that is ready to contribute. All of our picks have room to grow in certain areas, but all 3 already have skills that can immediately transfer to the NBA and allow them to contribute. Vesely has played against a higher level of comp than anyone on the draft and was a major contributor, yet is being compared to McGee and is called unskilled. He attacks the rim, plays with e\nergy, and can score w/o you running any plays for him. Singleton right now can be a lock down defender and can also allow us to play zone with him at the top of the key, and Mack can come in and add 3 pt shooting to our backcourt and will not be overwhelmed by the moment...

What's funny to me is every player people are saying "we should have drafted", has major holes in their game as well. We didn't pass on complete players for projects. They're almost all projects!
Faried- No offense, limited post moves, played against weaker competition
Kawhi- Jumpshot, ball handling, will be changing positions and will need to become a better perimeter offensive player.
Vucevic- Not a good defensive player, not very athletic, does not offer position versatility. Not the type of guy to pair with Wall.
Thompson- Raw offensively, form and consistency of shot needs work
Brooks- I liked him a lot but again, I'm assuming NY is coming back now. I was hoping we could find a way to buy a late 1st but unfortunately it didn't work out. If you drafted Brooks there would be no need to bring back Nick.

Bottom line to me is Ernie was going to be blasted no matter what he did. IMO though, I think he made the right move in not trading up and taking who I thought was the best player on the board at our selections. Looking at specific needs doesn't make sense to me as this roster is still a work in progress. The only players on the roster I see as definitively being here in 2 years are Wall, Crawford, Mack, Booker, McGee, Vesely, Singleton, and Seraphin. Everything else is in the air right now so to get hung up on a specific roster deficiency is misguided.

For those still unhappy with the Vesely pick, what would you have done differently @ 6?

[sfam]

Terpman, I've thought about it a couple days and I agree with you, 100%.

Faried will be a much better player than Singleton or Vesely.

Ernie got length and maturity and toughness, but he filled positions where he's already got starters that will not be displaced this season. Mack won't be an exceptional NBA player. He might be a solid backup. Singleton will be a good player but never great. I think the Washington will be lucky if he turns into a stronger Tayshaun Prince--but that will take a couple years. Vesely, IMO has the look of a guy who's going to find out that dunking on Euros and dunking on negroes (yeah, I went there because it rhymed) is two different things--they'll come back at you. I know Vesely will be a high-flier and a crowd pleaser, but the guy's not a shutdown cover guy and he's not a stud rebounder. I think he's going to be a give-and-take player. He'll give a highlight but he'll also be a lot like McGee--guys will come at him...

The reason Faried was not a top 10 pick, or even a lottery pick is that most professionals consider him to be a good but undersized role player. His most likely role on an NBA team will be the 6th or 7th man coming off the bench to give a spark or to work some matchup shortfall. He is NOT considered to be a surefire all-star by virtually anyone. And call me crazy, but I'm guessing that one of the top Euroleagues provides a tougher level of competition than the teams Morehead State plays. You can try to make the case that we should have selected Faried at #18, but hopefully you aren't trying to push him for #6.

As for Vesely being a sure-fire bust, clearly many disagree with you, including most professionals who say he is the most NBA ready Euro out there as well as the safest Euro. Most assume Vesely will be a starter some day, not a bench player. He clearly has the upside to potentially get close to all-star caliber. Like with most players with upside (Like McGee), he could also be significantly less than that if he never gets a develops a consistent shot.

Regarding Singleton, if he can nail the outside standing shot, he'll be just what we need. Singleton will guard LeBron better than Faried.

Regarding Norris Cole, he was selected #28, and Mack was selected #34. What should EG have done about that? Surely you aren't suggesting that we should have drafted Faried at #6 and Cole at #18 are you?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Honestly, I think EG would have done much better drafting Knight, Faried, and Leuer/Williams/Tyler.

Knight would have been a very good guard pickup, a best player available, and a guy with trade value down the road.

But having already picked Vesely at 6, the pick at 18 even with Singleton on the board was Faried.

I don't really mind Mack at 34, but I think Jordan Williams being a very poor man's Kanter--and a solid rebounder who scores inside, would have been a nice pick. Charles Jenkins would have been good. But again, I'm not unhappy with Mack.

I just think the Wizards didn't get much better--and I'm not one who thinks experts are all that important because they get paid, DCZards. They got paid to be wrong about Shelden Williams, Oleksiv Pecherov, Paul Millsap and Kwame Brown. I knew something they didn't. Same with Blair, Curry, Boozer, Korver, Marquis Daniels, Steve Novak, Steve Blake, Aaron Brooks and a ton of other guys they either said couldn't play or wouldn't be in the league.

Nobody's perfect (I've got my Morris Almonds/Mike Sweetney's/undervaluing Tyreke Evans, etc) but I think if this weren't just a hobby that I spend very little time on and I had INFLUENCE I would do better than most of the so-called experts. Considerably better.

[nate33]

CCJ, with all due respect, you would have taken Morris Almond over Nick Young, and Richard Hendrix over Javale McGee. You probably would have traded Wall for Cousins plus filler (a trade that can't be evaluated because we don't know what the filler would have been, but given your love of Cousins and your skepticism of Wall, you probably wouldn't have negotiated too hard).

And without knowing Faried would still be on the board at #18, you probably would have taken him 6th, so you wouldn't have landed Knight + Faried.

[hands11]

I think Barnes is a slightly bigger Calbert Cheaney. He'll be a useful NBA player but he won't be a star unless he learns how to take in to the rack and draw fouls.

Actually. And he just doesn't seem like a tough kid. A little to prima donna ish for me. Dont get me wrong. He may be a nice kid but this team is getting molded with men.