ImageImageImageImageImage

Political Roundtable Part XXII

Moderators: montestewart, LyricalRico, nate33

User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 45,697
And1: 17,369
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#961 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:45 pm

Trump's tariffs and immigration restrictions are forcing companies to move production overseas...

Trump’s trade folly

President Trump wants Ford to lose money. And Apple to hike prices.

As Trump’s protectionist trade policy intensifies, inevitable economic distortions are materializing.

with the Ford Focus Active now subject to Trump’s 25% tariff on imports from China, Ford has decided to give up on selling the Focus in the United States completely. The factory in China will still produce the Focus for Asian markets, and another Focus factory in Germany will produce the car for sale in Europe. But Americans won’t be able to get the once-popular model, except on the used market.

Trump thinks the solution is to build the Focus in the United States. “This car can now be BUILT IN THE USA and Ford will pay no tariffs!” Trump tweeted on September 9. But Ford has already tried that, and lost money doing so.



Apple recently said the next round of Trump tariffs “will result in lower U.S. growth and competitiveness and higher prices for consumers.” In a filing with the office of the US Trade Representative, Apple said the additional tariffs on Chinese imports will raise the cost of roughly two dozen types of products, including the Apple Watch, AirPods, HomePods, Beats, and a variety of components that go into other products.

Trump implored Apple, as well, to move production from China to the United States.

Trump is apparently unaware that in 2011, the late Steve Jobs, then Apple’s CEO, told President Obama that the United States didn’t have nearly enough engineers to support Apple’s vast assembly operations. He urged better efforts to lure engineers from other countries. But Trump favors stricter limits on legal immigration, not looser ones.



Harley-Davidson is further along in its efforts to deal with the blowback of Trump’s trade wars. The company decided over the summer to shift production of motorcycles destined for Europe out of the United States to evade retaliatory tariffs Europe placed on imported U.S. motorcycles, in response to Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs. Trump lambasted Harley, saying it “should stay 100% in America.” But again — he’s imploring the company to lose money. No CEO can or should do that.


...there’s a fatal flaw in Trump’s strategy: His tariffs, by necessity, will harm U.S. companies and consumers before they produce enough leverage to extract concessions from China. Trump is basically telling the American victims of his trade policy to buck up and take it. They’re saying no.
Yahoo Finance
Pointgod
RealGM
Posts: 24,166
And1: 24,477
Joined: Jun 28, 2014

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#962 » by Pointgod » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:18 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Trump's tariffs and immigration restrictions are forcing companies to move production overseas...

Trump’s trade folly

President Trump wants Ford to lose money. And Apple to hike prices.

As Trump’s protectionist trade policy intensifies, inevitable economic distortions are materializing.

with the Ford Focus Active now subject to Trump’s 25% tariff on imports from China, Ford has decided to give up on selling the Focus in the United States completely. The factory in China will still produce the Focus for Asian markets, and another Focus factory in Germany will produce the car for sale in Europe. But Americans won’t be able to get the once-popular model, except on the used market.

Trump thinks the solution is to build the Focus in the United States. “This car can now be BUILT IN THE USA and Ford will pay no tariffs!” Trump tweeted on September 9. But Ford has already tried that, and lost money doing so.



Apple recently said the next round of Trump tariffs “will result in lower U.S. growth and competitiveness and higher prices for consumers.” In a filing with the office of the US Trade Representative, Apple said the additional tariffs on Chinese imports will raise the cost of roughly two dozen types of products, including the Apple Watch, AirPods, HomePods, Beats, and a variety of components that go into other products.

Trump implored Apple, as well, to move production from China to the United States.

Trump is apparently unaware that in 2011, the late Steve Jobs, then Apple’s CEO, told President Obama that the United States didn’t have nearly enough engineers to support Apple’s vast assembly operations. He urged better efforts to lure engineers from other countries. But Trump favors stricter limits on legal immigration, not looser ones.



Harley-Davidson is further along in its efforts to deal with the blowback of Trump’s trade wars. The company decided over the summer to shift production of motorcycles destined for Europe out of the United States to evade retaliatory tariffs Europe placed on imported U.S. motorcycles, in response to Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs. Trump lambasted Harley, saying it “should stay 100% in America.” But again — he’s imploring the company to lose money. No CEO can or should do that.


...there’s a fatal flaw in Trump’s strategy: His tariffs, by necessity, will harm U.S. companies and consumers before they produce enough leverage to extract concessions from China. Trump is basically telling the American victims of his trade policy to buck up and take it. They’re saying no.
Yahoo Finance


But according to economic geniuses like STD Trumps policies will bring manufacturing back to the US. All you have to do is go on Twitter and talk tough. Then just confiscate all the banks and somehow that relates to manufacturing. Seems like Trump hired a dentist to do his economic policy.
dobrojim
RealGM
Posts: 16,923
And1: 4,106
Joined: Sep 16, 2004

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#963 » by dobrojim » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:21 pm

JWizmentality wrote:Wait wait wait. I was under the impression that this letter with 65 women's signatures supporting Kavanaugh was submitted before these hearings. You mean this was submitted after the allegations? So they gathered these signatures in 24 hours? Why did they have this ready to go? Why all women? WTF?!? :lol:

Sorry, this is theatre. :lol: Now I'm sure the guy is a POS.


I did not hear details of the full followup to this but I did hear a reference
to the possibility that this number (65) was bogus. Some number from
this original 65 have withdrawn.

But it is notable that they had this letter all ready to go, just in case.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
Pointgod
RealGM
Posts: 24,166
And1: 24,477
Joined: Jun 28, 2014

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#964 » by Pointgod » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:23 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Some Republicans approve of Russia's help in elections

American intelligence officials say Russia is still trying to interfere with U.S. elections, as the November midterms approach. And Russian dictator Vladimir Putin has said he prefers Donald Trump in the White House.

That’s okay with some Republicans, according to a Yahoo Finance/SurveyMonkey poll of 2,509 Americans conducted July 25-27. In the survey, 11% of people who identify as Republican or lean Republican say it’s “appropriate” for Russia to help Republicans keep control of Congress in the upcoming elections. Another 29% say it’s “not appropriate, but wouldn’t be a big deal” for the Russians to help. So combined, 40% of Republicans either approve of Russian interference, or don’t strongly object to it.

Image
Yahoo Finance


I am not surprised. Republicans are no longer a political party and are a cult.
Wizardspride
RealGM
Posts: 17,378
And1: 11,561
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Location: Olney, MD/Kailua/Kaneohe, HI
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#965 » by Wizardspride » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:43 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
Wizardspride
RealGM
Posts: 17,378
And1: 11,561
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Location: Olney, MD/Kailua/Kaneohe, HI
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#966 » by Wizardspride » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:56 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19

Read on Twitter
?s=19



Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 13,362
And1: 6,728
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#967 » by TGW » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:59 pm

Example #454654 why Trump is a terrible president.

Read on Twitter
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
verbal8
General Manager
Posts: 8,354
And1: 1,377
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Location: Herndon, VA
     

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#968 » by verbal8 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:02 pm

dobrojim wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:Wait wait wait. I was under the impression that this letter with 65 women's signatures supporting Kavanaugh was submitted before these hearings. You mean this was submitted after the allegations? So they gathered these signatures in 24 hours? Why did they have this ready to go? Why all women? WTF?!? :lol:

Sorry, this is theatre. :lol: Now I'm sure the guy is a POS.


I did not hear details of the full followup to this but I did hear a reference
to the possibility that this number (65) was bogus. Some number from
this original 65 have withdrawn.

But it is notable that they had this letter all ready to go, just in case.


I am a little disappointed in some of those reports. There was some "no comment" and a lot of "no responses". There seem to be at least 7 that I have seen that have re-affirmed their support in some manner. I think the final count may look a lot more partisan than the initial list.

I believe the letter itself was produced in "real-time". However they likely had compiled contact info for roughly 100 women who knew him in high school. Maybe a slightly more charitable interpretation is a smaller number and they also asked for other friends who would lend their names to it.

This does remove any credible possibility of Kavanaugh using a mistaken identity defense. Someone who has 60+ women who remember him from high school 30+ years ago isn't getting mistaken for someone else.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,940
And1: 20,462
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#969 » by dckingsfan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:03 pm

Oh boy, Sanders has lost it... The "Stop Bad Employers by Zeroing Out Subsidies Act" has soooo many unintended consequences as to be ridiculous. Another good idea in really bad legislation cloths.

Full text of the bill:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3410/text

I guess this is as good a time as any to get the unemployment rates back up...
verbal8
General Manager
Posts: 8,354
And1: 1,377
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Location: Herndon, VA
     

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#970 » by verbal8 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:04 pm

Wray and Rosenstein need to back their employees NOW

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19

Read on Twitter
?s=19



Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,940
And1: 20,462
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#971 » by dckingsfan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:06 pm

Trying to do your own twitter stream :D?

Wizardspride wrote:...
verbal8
General Manager
Posts: 8,354
And1: 1,377
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Location: Herndon, VA
     

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#972 » by verbal8 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:06 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Oh boy, Sanders has lost it... The "Stop Bad Employers by Zeroing Out Subsidies Act" has soooo many unintended consequences as to be ridiculous. Another good idea in really bad legislation cloths.

Full text of the bill:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3410/text

I guess this is as good a time as any to get the unemployment rates back up...

Zero chance this Congress puts it into law. But it probably needs some work before it is ready for prime-time.

If you think the situation of lower-level Walmart or Amazon or other employees is bad now - wait until they turned into 1099s.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,940
And1: 20,462
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#973 » by dckingsfan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:08 pm

verbal8 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Oh boy, Sanders has lost it... The "Stop Bad Employers by Zeroing Out Subsidies Act" has soooo many unintended consequences as to be ridiculous. Another good idea in really bad legislation cloths.

Full text of the bill:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3410/text

I guess this is as good a time as any to get the unemployment rates back up...

Zero chance this Congress puts it into law. But it probably needs some work before it is ready for prime-time.

If you think the situation of lower-level Walmart or Amazon or other employees is bad now - wait until they turned into 1099s.

And if you want to accelerate that process - pass this bill. There is no prime time for this - way too much failed logic.

If you want to increase wages - increase productivity.
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 13,362
And1: 6,728
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#974 » by TGW » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:16 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Oh boy, Sanders has lost it... The "Stop Bad Employers by Zeroing Out Subsidies Act" has soooo many unintended consequences as to be ridiculous. Another good idea in really bad legislation cloths.

Full text of the bill:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3410/text

I guess this is as good a time as any to get the unemployment rates back up...


no, you lost it dckings. you're a corporate feudalist you cry and whine everyday about subsidies to help everyday people but don't say anything when it goes to corporate welfare. Pathetic.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
I_Like_Dirt
RealGM
Posts: 36,057
And1: 9,437
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Location: Boardman gets paid!

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#975 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:19 pm

dckingsfan wrote:If you want to increase wages - increase productivity.


I agree with you that I don't think Sanders' bill would actually be effective as it stands, but how much evidence do you need before realizing that the above statement just isn't actually true? Employers will always try to pay the least they possibly can pay (there are a few exceptions but many of the exceptions are where friends and family are involved) and increasing productivity has 0 impact on the least they can actually pay.
Bucket! Bucket!
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 13,362
And1: 6,728
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#976 » by TGW » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:24 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
If you want to increase wages - increase productivity.


Image

There is absolutely no correlation between productivity and wages anymore. You're just spewing libertarian nonsense talking points.

Image

https://www.epi.org/publication/raising-americas-pay/
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,940
And1: 20,462
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#977 » by dckingsfan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:26 pm

TGW wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Oh boy, Sanders has lost it... The "Stop Bad Employers by Zeroing Out Subsidies Act" has soooo many unintended consequences as to be ridiculous. Another good idea in really bad legislation cloths.

Full text of the bill:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3410/text

I guess this is as good a time as any to get the unemployment rates back up...


no, you lost it dckings. you're a corporate feudalist you cry and whine everyday about subsidies to help everyday people but don't say anything when it goes to corporate welfare. Pathetic.

Wrong TGW, I look at bills and think about the unintended consequences. This bill will just make things worse. Just like Warren's bills for banking and the student guarantee loan program.

Although I give them credit for having their hearts in the right place - they get the "stupid" label for actually implementation.

THINK about what this bill does. And then THINK about what we want to actually accomplish and you will see that it doesn't accomplish what you want.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,940
And1: 20,462
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#978 » by dckingsfan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:28 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:If you want to increase wages - increase productivity.

I agree with you that I don't think Sanders' bill would actually be effective as it stands, but how much evidence do you need before realizing that the above statement just isn't actually true? Employers will always try to pay the least they possibly can pay (there are a few exceptions but many of the exceptions are where friends and family are involved) and increasing productivity has 0 impact on the least they can actually pay.

Yes, but never ever impose a tax that pushes them to reduce hiring. Push the tax elsewhere... this is flat out stupidity.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,940
And1: 20,462
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#979 » by dckingsfan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:30 pm

Show productivity of the lowest quintile and wages please...

TGW wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
If you want to increase wages - increase productivity.


Image

There is absolutely no correlation between productivity and wages anymore. You're just spewing libertarian nonsense talking points.

Image

https://www.epi.org/publication/raising-americas-pay/
I_Like_Dirt
RealGM
Posts: 36,057
And1: 9,437
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Location: Boardman gets paid!

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXII 

Post#980 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:35 pm

dckingsfan wrote:I look at bills and think about the unintended consequences.


This is fair, and honestly a pretty sound way of looking at things: what will the outcomes actually be an why?

I do think you need to apply that to your assertion that increasing productivity will increase wages, though. Increasing productivity increases potential employer revenues. Employers are going to try to leverage that increased leverage into greater and/or more secure market share. They don't actually achieve that by paying more unless they're in an industry where there is an overheating labor shortage and massive revenues that project to be sustainable long term. Employers have seen the Walmarts and Amazons and any other number of large scale companies, though. The main vulnerability to be exploited is by driving down consumer costs by keeping wages down while productivity increases. Increase productivity means increasing potential revenues which means, if a company actually taps into those revenue streams, an increasingly strong position with which to hold the line on wages.
Bucket! Bucket!

Return to Washington Wizards