Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[nate33]

Not sure we need both Thomas and Smith, but I'd gladly trade Blatche and expirings for either one of them. It's a moot point though. The trade is laughable. One or both of Atlanta and Charlotte are getting screwed big time. There's no way we're sending out enough value to get that package back.

[dangermouse]

Atlanta want a C, and to a lesser degree a PG.
Charlotte want a PG (are they still hoping to be a playoff team this year or what? seems to me like they should blow it up and go back to the old drawing board).
Mavs want to replace Butler I guess, Haywood is expendable with the play of Chandler.

There could be trade in there somewhere that satisfies all teams involved.

Hinrich could be used by both Atlanta and Charlotte. Im not sure Haywood is playing good enough for the Hawks to consider. It sounds like Horford is realling pushing for a trade so that he can play more PF, but they shouldnt be too hasty just to placate him. Brenda could fit, but because he hasnt played well enough to be a starter on the Mavs, the Hawks would want more value for whichever players they decide to move.

[jivelikenice]

In terms of trades, I've come to my own conclusion that I do not want to see the following players moved:

Young- I understand people are concerned that we'd be overpaying because of productivity on a bad team but I would argue that. I'm more concerned about players like a Jerry Stackhouse; volume shooters who score a ton of points, but need the all to go through them to have an impact. They can never be the #1 or #2 on a championship caliber team. Nick Young is more like Rip Hamilton IMO. The same discussions were coming up in our boards when Rip was up for renewal because people just weren't sure if he was a scorer on a bad team or an actual contributor. Young, like Rip brings a certain skillset; a jumpshot coupled with the ability to score without dominating the basketball. Having a 2 guard with that skill set is vital with a pg like Wall running the team. At lets say $5-$7 MM/year, NY could be a 18-20 ppg sg who's shooting percentage will only go up as he gets surrounded by better, and more experienced players. At worst he can be a 15ppg 6th man who can ignite a team with instant offense off the bench.

Hinrich/ Josh Howard- This team needs true vets like these two guys who know how to play the game and bring a professionalism to the court. I think Kirk been extremely effective coming off the bench in the 3rd guard role and has been more aggressive in this role as well. Wall and Co need guys like this to teach them how to play the game and expedite the learning curve. The problem with recent perennial lottery teams like the Clippers for example has been that their young guys are all trying to prove themselves and get a contract. Winning in that situation either hasn't been the priority or the players just don't know how to win.

McGee- He's frustrating but is very raw and young. Chandler was up and down the first few years as well so you gave to hope McGee will get there. I think he will but a veteran big could really help mentor him.

I'd have no problem moving Blatche, Thornton, or Yi, although if we moved Blatche it would have to be for a player who has potential. A simple salary dump is not what this team needs right now. All the cap space in the world is meaningless unless you've made progress as a team that would attratc free agents.

I also would not be opposed to trading our #1 unprotected, but it would have to be for the right player (ie. Cousins, Horford)....and the likelihood of that is slim IMO.

[willbcocks]

My gut feeling is that Nick Young is not going to get big bucks. This year just seems to be the perfect storm of a new CBA and a lot of teams who spent way too much last year. Hopefully it pans out that way.

[dangermouse]

Kings would be fools not to take our unprotected first in exchange for Cousins. Especially if we were taking back a bad contract like Garcia in exchange for expirings as well. They could get their PF and C of the future in the one draft and only give up a guy who may have more potential, but has caused a few problems. I think i'd want top 1 protection on the pick though, just incase we get extremely lucky again.

I agree with everything else above that youve mentioned in regards to trading/keeping. If the right deal for a mid-first is there for Hinrich, we should pull the trigger though. Do we even know how much mentoring goes on from these vets? It sounds like Josh is the only one that has an actual effect.

Speaking of mentors, what is Pryzbilla like as that kind of guy? Hes available and could fill in that backup role/mentor for McGee.

[verbal8]

I think the Wizards should offer Hinrich and Thorton for Troy Murphy. There is no reason to keep Murphy beyond this season(or even the full season), but there could be a few advantages to this move. The first one is freeing cap space(possibly another BOYD deal) this offseason. The advantage of Murphy over say Eddy Curry is there is a chance he can actually play. I think he could give some legit competition to Blatche at PF and a decent back-up to McGee. Although I would like someone better defensively, his rebounding ability could be a big help.

I am not sure that the Nets would go for it, but they might figure Thornton may actually be an improvement at SF and Hinrich can help them at both guard positions. Hinrich does cut into cap space, but is probably movable in the offseason as productive player on an expiring contract.

I would prefer to get a pick, but if only expirings are available I think Murphy may be a good option.

[nate33]

Atlanta want a C, and to a lesser degree a PG.
Charlotte want a PG (are they still hoping to be a playoff team this year or what? seems to me like they should blow it up and go back to the old drawing board).
Mavs want to replace Butler I guess, Haywood is expendable with the play of Chandler.

There could be trade in there somewhere that satisfies all teams involved.

Hinrich could be used by both Atlanta and Charlotte. Im not sure Haywood is playing good enough for the Hawks to consider. It sounds like Horford is realling pushing for a trade so that he can play more PF, but they shouldnt be too hasty just to placate him. Brenda could fit, but because he hasnt played well enough to be a starter on the Mavs, the Hawks would want more value for whichever players they decide to move.

Blatche and Tyrus Thomas have roughly the same value, and that's being generous. I think most teams would prefer Thomas but let's say they're the same for the sake of argument.

That means, the rest of the deal is basically Hinrich + Young + expirings for Josh Smith + Haywood. Being optimistic, one can argue that Hinrich for Haywood straight up is fair. Haywood's skillset is a bit harder to find, but that's offset by the pricetag of his long contract. Let's call it a wash for now.

So that means you believe that Young + expirings is worth Josh Smith. That's where this trade falls apart. Josh Smith is an all-star caliber PF who is a DOPY candidate. Young is an average, starting-caliber SG (and many wouldn't even cede that point). They're the same age.

[nate33]

I think the Wizards should offer Hinrich and Thorton for Troy Murphy. There is no reason to keep Murphy beyond this season(or even the full season), but there could be a few advantages to this move. The first one is freeing cap space(possibly another BOYD deal) this offseason. The advantage of Murphy over say Eddy Curry is there is a chance he can actually play. I think he could give some legit competition to Blatche at PF and a decent back-up to McGee. Although I would like someone better defensively, his rebounding ability could be a big help.

I am not sure that the Nets would go for it, but they might figure Thornton may actually be an improvement at SF and Hinrich can help them at both guard positions. Hinrich does cut into cap space, but is probably movable in the offseason as productive player on an expiring contract.

I would prefer to get a pick, but if only expirings are available I think Murphy may be a good option.

I see no incentive for the Nets.

[eitanr]

I think the idea is you want to deal for guys you can see as future players around Wall with this team. If you target certain guys, who may be looming free agents etc, who you really don't see filling a future need or being an appropriate player at that position long term, trading him now could be a good option to try and obtain that player.

That being said Nick Young and Andray Blatche do seem like guys Washington needs to at least dangle to see what they can fetch in a deal.

Nick Young in particular since he is a looming RFA and could be quite lucrative to match. Is he really worth 7 million a year and is he even the exact type of SG we're looking for alongside Wall for years to come? I'd rather deal him to Chicago personally and get a nice young center in Omer Asik who would be a long term solution behind JaVale McGee, a 2012 contract (Bogans) and even a late pick in the draft (CHI 1st rounder). The Wiz could use that pick for numerous purposes come draft time or potentially steal a guy who falls late and ensure they at least have their long term center locked up in Asik. Lest they don't deal Young and decide not to re-sign him at a likely 7 mill per this off-season, or even worse, sign him to a lengthy expensive deal and have him not deliver.

[Ruzious]

I think the idea is you want to deal for guys you can see as future players around Wall with this team. If you target certain guys, who may be looming free agents etc, who you really don't see filling a future need or being an appropriate player at that position long term, trading him now could be a good option to try and obtain that player.

That being said Nick Young and Andray Blatche do seem like guys Washington needs to at least dangle to see what they can fetch in a deal.

Nick Young in particular since he is a looming RFA and could be quite lucrative to match. Is he really worth 7 million a year and is he even the exact type of SG we're looking for alongside Wall for years to come? I'd rather deal him to Chicago personally and get a nice young center in Omer Asik who would be a long term solution behind JaVale McGee, a 2012 contract (Bogans) and even a late pick in the draft (CHI 1st rounder). The Wiz could use that pick for numerous purposes come draft time or potentially steal a guy who falls late and ensure they at least have their long term center locked up in Asik. Lest they don't deal Young and decide not to re-sign him at a likely 7 mill per this off-season, or even worse, sign him to a lengthy expensive deal and have him not deliver.

Your first sentence is exactly right and is the rule of them for every move the Wiz make.

And Young really does fit with Wall - an athletic guy who's developed into an excellent catch and shoot player and can run with Wall. The Chicago 1st rounder ain't enough. Omer Asik - honestly, I've never seen the guy play. If he's nothing more than a project, I don't want him.

[nuposse04]

I think the idea is you want to deal for guys you can see as future players around Wall with this team. If you target certain guys, who may be looming free agents etc, who you really don't see filling a future need or being an appropriate player at that position long term, trading him now could be a good option to try and obtain that player.

That being said Nick Young and Andray Blatche do seem like guys Washington needs to at least dangle to see what they can fetch in a deal.

Nick Young in particular since he is a looming RFA and could be quite lucrative to match. Is he really worth 7 million a year and is he even the exact type of SG we're looking for alongside Wall for years to come? I'd rather deal him to Chicago personally and get a nice young center in Omer Asik who would be a long term solution behind JaVale McGee, a 2012 contract (Bogans) and even a late pick in the draft (CHI 1st rounder). The Wiz could use that pick for numerous purposes come draft time or potentially steal a guy who falls late and ensure they at least have their long term center locked up in Asik. Lest they don't deal Young and decide not to re-sign him at a likely 7 mill per this off-season, or even worse, sign him to a lengthy expensive deal and have him not deliver.

I do think Nick is the long term answer in fact. His good play isn't a recent aberration, he's been playing for some time now. He is in fact the exact type of SG I want next to wall. Is a good defender, pure shooter, and good enough to do some ball handling. Wall will never be an elite scorer, I don't think he has that mentality, but he is an elite distributer already. I'm well aware that Nick doesn't get credited with many assists, but he has gotten better with his play-making. Quite frankly I would pay him 7 million a year if it means my backcourt of the future is set for the long term. Now what you suggest is awful for two reasons.

We first turn Chi into an elite team by giving them a HUGE upgrade at SG and make it all the more difficult in the long run. Secondly, why would I trade a SG who can START and be productive efficiently for a potential backup center? We have that in Seraphin. If we can deal AB+hinrich for a prospect sf/pf and a pic i'm all for it. Throwing away nick young just because people want to undervalue him is something I'm thoroughly against.

[nuposse04]

I think the idea is you want to deal for guys you can see as future players around Wall with this team. If you target certain guys, who may be looming free agents etc, who you really don't see filling a future need or being an appropriate player at that position long term, trading him now could be a good option to try and obtain that player.

That being said Nick Young and Andray Blatche do seem like guys Washington needs to at least dangle to see what they can fetch in a deal.

Nick Young in particular since he is a looming RFA and could be quite lucrative to match. Is he really worth 7 million a year and is he even the exact type of SG we're looking for alongside Wall for years to come? I'd rather deal him to Chicago personally and get a nice young center in Omer Asik who would be a long term solution behind JaVale McGee, a 2012 contract (Bogans) and even a late pick in the draft (CHI 1st rounder). The Wiz could use that pick for numerous purposes come draft time or potentially steal a guy who falls late and ensure they at least have their long term center locked up in Asik. Lest they don't deal Young and decide not to re-sign him at a likely 7 mill per this off-season, or even worse, sign him to a lengthy expensive deal and have him not deliver.

Your first sentence is exactly right and is the rule of them for every move the Wiz make.

And Young really does fit with Wall - an athletic guy who's developed into an excellent catch and shoot player and can run with Wall. The Chicago 1st rounder ain't enough. Omer Asik - honestly, I've never seen the guy play. If he's nothing more than a project, I don't want him.

He's good for about 6 hard fouls a game and some rebounding but thats about it. Nick alone is worth more than him. Its an awful trade. Mid to late round pics don't have a high success rate of turning into quality starters like Nick.

[nate33]

If Young ends up costing more than the MLE, then the Wizards will have leverage to arrange a sign-and-trade in the offseason (because over-the-cap teams like Chicago wouldn't be able to bid for him otherwise). If Young ends up costing less than the MLE, then I don't want him traded because I'd prefer to keep him at that salary.

Bottom line: there is no scenario where trading him now makes more sense than waiting until the offseason.

[Ruzious]

Thanks, nu. Sounds like Asik doesn't do anything more than Seraphin. We don't need another unskilled big coming off the bench. Like nate's been saying all along; if we trade Nick now, we need to get an important piece back.

[clancy]

Thanks, nu. Sounds like Asik doesn't do anything more than Seraphin. We don't need another unskilled big coming off the bench. Like nate's been saying all along; if we trade Nick now, we need to get an important piece back.

I wouldn't say that - he shoots, rebounds, and passes better, imo. He's also a little older with more basketball experience. If the question were Asik vs. Seraphin, I'd take Asik right now.

But I wouldn't trade Nick for him.

[nuposse04]

Thanks, nu. Sounds like Asik doesn't do anything more than Seraphin. We don't need another unskilled big coming off the bench. Like nate's been saying all along; if we trade Nick now, we need to get an important piece back.

I wouldn't say that - he shoots, rebounds, and passes better, imo. He's also a little older with more basketball experience. If the question were Asik vs. Seraphin, I'd take Asik right now.

But I wouldn't trade Nick for him.

I'd say he does shoot better...I think seraphin could be as decent at rebounding right now as him given some more playing time. They're developmental bigs, with one being far younger and far more athletic...who do you think we should go with? Not that difficult lol.

I really hope we don't make any drastic moves if any this trade deadline. If I remember a while back, an article claimed that NY was "pretty much untouchable" so all this talk may be trivial anyways.

[dangermouse]

Nick Young going Chi-town and we take back a 2012 contract? We better be getting more than Asik. Im thinking Taj Gibson or hang up the phone.

[Hoopalotta]

I'd think the only thing that even really would get the convo started with Chi-ca-go would be the Charlotte pick AND their first this year. I doubt the Bulls would want to give up the frontcourt depth with their being a darkhorse contender and we aren't really pressing for Gibson or Asik with it looking like we're drafting a big anyway.

Just the Chicago pick this year is an absurdly poor return.

[dangermouse]

Two first rounders? Done.

[theboomking]

We're not trading Nick Young. How did the team look last night without Young in the starting lineup? The team is borderline unwatchable without NY, and there is no way we're going to get equal value. NY may not be an All Star, but he is a very good complement to Wall. Wall had to do all of the scoring and was really our only decent player on the court. Wall also had almost no assists because no one was getting open and knocking down their shots. I don't know