Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[Ruzious]

I'll agree he helps only if/when he shows he can catch passes without bobbling the ball. Otherwise, he kills the offense. I'm not even asking him to make shots or free throws. Just catch passes. And he's actually not a bad passer - much better than Seraphin. Remembering back on Haywood when he was here - he had the bobbling problem his first 2 seasons.

[nate33]

What Vesely is doing right now is pretty much what I figured his maximum upside would be. This is good enough to be a legit, regular-rotation role player in this league. He is rebounding well for his position, he isn't getting pushed around so easily on defense, he is getting steals and generally being disruptive (if a bit foul prone) on help defense, and he has been uber efficient on extremely low usage on offense. His PER is 16.1.

He has only done it for 65 minutes this season, mostly against backups, so it's way too early to break out the champagne. But I certainly like what I am seeing.

[fishercob]

What Vesely is doing right now is pretty much what I figured his maximum upside would be. This is good enough to be a legit, regular-rotation role player in this league. He is rebounding well for his position, he isn't getting pushed around so easily on defense, he is getting steals and generally being disruptive (if a bit foul prone) on help defense, and he has been uber efficient on extremely low usage on offense. His PER is 16.1.

He has only done it for 65 minutes this season, mostly against backups, so it's way too early to break out the champagne. But I certainly like what I am seeing.

I think there's actually more upside there. I'm not predicting that he taps into it, but it's there.

He's still not playing with that much confidence; when you look at his body language over his past two games (which were good) compared to that this summer with the Czech national team or with Partizan, he's still a different guy. When he's comfortable, he's letting out primal yells after dunks, pumping his fist, etc.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlUHRLX-YP8[/youtube]

He's still slumping his shoulders whenever he makes a mistake, and I think that shows he's still fighting himself -- playing more not to lose and less to win. To be the player he needs to be, he needs to play with that fire, that snarl, that "f*ck you," to emboldens him to contest every shot, dive on the floor for every loose ball, and dunk on people's heads.

He's got a long way to go, but if he can find some comfort in his own head and his own skin, he could help us. Wouldn't that be fun?

[hands11]

With that last game against MN, Ves just jumped over Gortat for TRB/36 with 10.5 vs 10.3
He also leads the team in steals/36 with 3.3 Trevor A is 2nd with 2.2
Also leads the team in DRtg at 98 and has an ORtg of 119 USG of only 9.4 which is lowest on the team

Now I have no idea where his ORtg settles in at, but that other stuff sound like VesBall

All of this is on very small sample size of course. He only played 65 total minutes. But he has looked good out there. Energy is there. Confidence is rising. I saw him locate Love late in the game and ran right at him and put a body on his to box him out. And he did. It was inspiring to see Ves do something like that. Specially on Love.

I think the rebounds and steal are numbers he might be able to maintain. He has to size, athleticism and body to do that. The pick and roll plays should be there also. Ves could always play that kind of a game. Just not sure that was anything the team focused on or if they had the players to get him the ball. I think adding Gortat has helped Wall and the team focus on that kind of offense more and that is helping them spot Ves the same way. And that plays into things Nene can do also either by being the finisher, or a passer.

[closg00]

The bottom line is:

A. Would you use a roster spot on Jan Vesely?
B. How-much would you pay for his services?

[hands11]

The bottom line is:

A. Would you use a roster spot on Jan Vesely?
B. How-much would you pay for his services?

To early to make that call. Its only 4 games into the season for him.

Who knows if Randy will even play him once he has Trevor A, AH and Otto.

[nuposse04]

The bottom line is:

A. Would you use a roster spot on Jan Vesely?
B. How-much would you pay for his services?

A. Current Jan....yes...
B. Eh...he's actually having a positive impact on the game right now so I think he deserves more then the vet. minimum...but I'd say maybe 2 years 6 mil would be reasonable. He could probably get more money in Europe though. Watch Ernie give him the MLE.

[nuposse04]

The bottom line is:

A. Would you use a roster spot on Jan Vesely?
B. How-much would you pay for his services?

To early to make that call. Its only 4 games into the season for him.

Who knows if Randy will even play him one he has Trevor A, AH and Otto.

I would actually love to see a bench composed of Temple, Webster (even though it is apparent he should be starting), Otto, AH, and Jan. Very long and could be a disruptive bunch with at least 2 floor spacers on the floor. Jan's improved rebounding also helps it from being terribly liable.

[Ruzious]

It was a mixed bag yesterday for him. He again hit the boards well and defended well, but he had 3 turnovers before scoring a point. He did come through with a couple of baskets when the team was falling apart, but it does hurt the offense when teams don't guard him - and I think that was a part of the 4th quarter implosion. He had the worst +/- on the team.

[dobrojim]

He's still not playing with that much confidence;

Agreed. But I would hope/expect his confidence to improve assuming he
continues to get minutes and be at least somewhat productive with them.
Last night in CLE after one of the time outs Witt called, they came out
and ran an oop for Ves. That's the kind of thing one would hope would
build his confidence. We'll know if/when he really turns the corner when
he stops passing the ball on drives when he is close to the bucket. He
delusionally compared himself to Blake Griffin way back when. I think
he has the physical ability to posterize people a lot more than he has.
When he is near the rim he needs to be a lot more aggressive.
What apparently stops him in many cases is the fear of getting fouled
and shooting FTs. Which is probably another mental block as much as
anything else.

[verbal8]

The bottom line is:

A. Would you use a roster spot on Jan Vesely?
B. How-much would you pay for his services?

I would offer Vesely a 2 year deal with the second year a team option(or no guarantee) for around $3 million/year. He looks like he should be a bottom of the rotation or injury fill-in player- 8th or 9th on team. However since he is a big, the price ends up being a little higher.

I would take a shot at more of an impact player first, but keeping him on team friendly deal isn't a bad option.

[keynote]

I think/worry that Vesely will get more than $3M on the open market. He isn't skilled, but some team will take a flier on him based on an assumption that they have a superior player development program.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[queridiculo]

It would be so Wizards if Vesely had a solid season after Grunfeld declined the team option.

[jivelikenice]

^Can't clame Ernie for that though. It would have been totally irresponsible to pick up the option at that point. Lets see it play out. I like what Vesely is doing. If he sticks to what he can do (board, run the floor, tap out offensive rebounds, help out on perimeter 4s), then that's great at this point. Hopefully as he gets more pt he'll be more ready to finish at the basket and his teammates wil be more prepared to give him the ball.

In terms of "what ifs" in regards to his pending free agency. If he is FINALLY starting to get it then would he be in a rush to leave and start over elsewhere? I can see Europe, but I can't see him going to anotgher NBA city where he's back to uncertainty in terms of role/pt/etc...

[closg00]

I think/worry that Vesely will get more than $3M on the open market. He isn't skilled, but some team will take a flier on him based on an assumption that they have a superior player development program.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using RealGM Forums mobile app

You think there will be a bidding-war to sign-up Jan in FA?.....not with his current skill-set.

[pcbothwel]

I think another underrated aspect of Jan's rebounding the amount of times he keeps a round in play for other teammates to collect the actual rebound. There is no stat for that, but is just as important as a rebound, if not moreso because it is on the offensive board.

[nuposse04]

It was a mixed bag yesterday for him. He again hit the boards well and defended well, but he had 3 turnovers before scoring a point. He did come through with a couple of baskets when the team was falling apart, but it does hurt the offense when teams don't guard him - and I think that was a part of the 4th quarter implosion. He had the worst +/- on the team.

I thought he should have had 4 more assists yesterday. I distinctly remember him making a pass to Webster and Beal in the corner, both guys had time to shoot but didn't upon catching the pass. Booker fumbled one away in the paint and I think Jan **** up the one to nene. I wonder if teammates have a hard time judging what Jan will do, so they get surprised by his passes. Also, he prolly lost a lot of whatever + he had on the court when Maynor was there in the 4th.

[Dark Faze]

He's starting to realize his role as a guy who defends and rebounds with points coming off of busy work.

That's why I was mad at him for not wanting to bulk up--he wasn't even able to play at an NBA level his first two seasons because he'd foul out from being too skinny inside.

I'd like to see what another off-season of intense strength training/weight gain could do for him. He needs the strength significantly more than he needs his quickness right now.

2 years 3 million PER with a player option for the second year seems fair

[stevemcqueen1]

It was a mixed bag yesterday for him. He again hit the boards well and defended well, but he had 3 turnovers before scoring a point. He did come through with a couple of baskets when the team was falling apart, but it does hurt the offense when teams don't guard him - and I think that was a part of the 4th quarter implosion. He had the worst +/- on the team.

I put the bulk of the 4th quarter implosion on Randy, Wall, and Beal. Going to the same friggin playcall over and over again when it wasn't working and not calling a timeout. Wall doing nothing. And Beal not being able to handle getting guarded by some scrub UDFA rookie, not being able to draw a foul when the guy was jumping all over him, turning it over or hoisting some crap shot... That was why we nearly imploded.

[nate33]

You people are jumping the gun way too early on Vesely. Let him play 20 games or so at this level before we start having a conversation about retaining him. I think what we are seeing now is that teams haven't bothered to game plan to take advantage of Vesely's many weaknesses.

Ruzious made a very good point in one of the other threads: Vesely is so bad on offense that his man just leaves him alone and plays free safety. This is one of the main reasons why we can't score down the stretch. The lane is so clogged that Wall simply cannot penetrate.