Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[nate33]

Because trades need partners and as far as I know nobody has the space to take those guys (Kings, but they should have no interest in 2nds for mediocre vets).

Green is obviously movable at his salary, the others, less so.

He was saying trade all 3 and save 5.5M total... Not outright dump them.

Space considering roster/matching salary/team needs/etc

Who really wants and can realistically obtain Ariza/Morris? Not many teams that I can think of.

The 150% rule can be leveraged with no TPE's or raw cap space involved. Ariza's and Morris' outgoing salaries total $23.6M. If the deals are structured properly, we can trade them while only taking back as little as $15.7 in salary. That saves up to $8M.

[Dat2U]

So just curious, who do you think teammates & Brooks were calling out when they said guys didn't bring it or the effort wasn't there?

Also, what explains Wall's complete 360 in terms of explosiveness, focus and attention to detail in the Lakers game. From literally walking around one game to flying around in another, then back to walking around. It was literally stunning to watch.

I have no problem putting some of the blame on the Wizards for letting him walk around like that but chemistry was absolutely wrecked ... until he got surgery. This was just not about Wall not being healthy, this also about Wall as a teammate, as a leader as the face of the franchise. And he's largely responsible for the disaster this season has become.

And keep in mind I've been one of Wall's staunchest supporters in the past but at some point I got to call how I see it.

Next season, they need to bring him off the bench with a minutes restriction. Once he is not starting, I think he will figure it out. Either that or he will be the one requesting the trade.

I don't know that they would ever seriously consider that. I think it's a good idea to initially him be that ultra aggressive playmaker off the bench ala Lou Will but more than likely he goes back in the starting lineup from day one.

One thing that should help next year. Markieff won't be in a Wizards uniform. It seemed the worse of Wall's tendencies would show with Keef in the lineup and vice versa. The plus/minus would seem to back this up.

[pcbothwel]

He was saying trade all 3 and save 5.5M total... Not outright dump them.

Space considering roster/matching salary/team needs/etc

Who really wants and can realistically obtain Ariza/Morris? Not many teams that I can think of.

The 150% rule can be leveraged with no TPE's or raw cap space involved. Ariza's and Morris' outgoing salaries total $23.6M. If the deals are structured properly, we can trade them while only taking back as little as $15.7 in salary. That saves up to $8M.

Nate, there is no "150% rule". There is a 175%, 5M, and 125% rule
Outgoing salary ----------------------- Maximum incoming salary
$0 to $6,533,333 ----------------------- 175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
$6,533,334 to $19.6 million----------------------- The outgoing salary plus $5 million
$19.6 million and up ----------------------- 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

*** If the team is a taxpaying team (After the trade), then they have to oblige by the 125% rule

So: Ariza makes 15M so a non taxpaying team can send out as little as 10M (Or 12M if they are a tax payer).
A team taking on Morris (8.6M) could send out as little as 4.9M (4.9M X 1.75 + 100K = 8.65M)

So we could, at most, save 8.7M in trading both of them to Non-taxpayings w/o cap space or TPE's

[nate33]

Space considering roster/matching salary/team needs/etc

Who really wants and can realistically obtain Ariza/Morris? Not many teams that I can think of.

The 150% rule can be leveraged with no TPE's or raw cap space involved. Ariza's and Morris' outgoing salaries total $23.6M. If the deals are structured properly, we can trade them while only taking back as little as $15.7 in salary. That saves up to $8M.

Nate, there is no "150% rule". There is a 175%, 5M, and 125% rule
Outgoing salary ----------------------- Maximum incoming salary
$0 to $6,533,333 ----------------------- 175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
$6,533,334 to $19.6 million----------------------- The outgoing salary plus $5 million
$19.6 million and up ----------------------- 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

*** If the team is a taxpaying team (After the trade), then they have to oblige by the 125% rule

So: Ariza makes 15M so a non taxpaying team can send out as little as 10M (Or 12M if they are a tax payer).
A team taking on Morris (8.6M) could send out as little as 4.9M (4.9M X 1.75 + 100K = 8.65M)

So we could, at most, save 8.7M in trading both of them to Non-taxpayings w/o cap space or TPE's

It's the average.

No. You are right of course. It's just as things turn out the actual number is darn close to 150% based on the salaries of Morris and Ariza.

With Morris, another team can send out a salary of 4.91M and absorb Morris' $8.6M deal
With Ariza, another team can send out $10M and absorb Ariza's $15M deal.

So combined, teams can send out 14.91M and get back our 23.6M. That's 158%.

[payitforward]

DEN trades:
Will Barton
Trey Lyles
Juancho Hernangomez
Tyler Lydon

WAS trades:
Otto Porter

Washington saves a ton of money this year, gets an infusion of youth, and a solid replacement 6moty candidate (last year) scorer.

If you wanted to save even more money, Nuggets could send their TPE and a 2nd for Markieff.

Please repeat after me.

The Washington Wizards are not going to trade Otto Porter for salary cap relief and a bunch of guys.

Well, that's usually my line as well. But, actually, this is not as bad a trade as you make it sound -- though that doesn't mean I'd be willing to do it exactly as described.

Happy to take a R2 pick & a TPE for kieff however.

What's happened to Barton, Superfly? A bunch of us liked him a lot in the '12 draft (i.e. over Satoransky) & have followed his career. He's been quite good until this year -- what's the deal with him? Injured? Or...?

Lyles hasn't been much. Hernangomez has been ok but no better.

I really liked Monte Morris in the '17 draft -- what a steal! Get him in this deal? Say, Barton, Monte Morris & 2 R1 picks, & we can talk -- thoughts?

[payitforward]

This discussion is going nowhere.... Trade Morris (8.6M) to Denver, with Denver sending out Lyles (3.6M) to a 3rd team, and the third team sending a TPE or Vet min player to DC.
Done and Done. Under the tax with a pretty decent team that could very well beat Milwaukee, Indiana, or Philly in the 1st round...

For starters, there's no reason for Denver to do this -- costs them $$ & provides no benefit at all.

Actually, the opposite; Lyles is marginally better than Kieff.

But if they don't want him next year, they can simply decline his option.

[nuposse04]

DEN trades:
Will Barton
Trey Lyles
Juancho Hernangomez
Tyler Lydon

WAS trades:
Otto Porter

Washington saves a ton of money this year, gets an infusion of youth, and a solid replacement 6moty candidate (last year) scorer.

If you wanted to save even more money, Nuggets could send their TPE and a 2nd for Markieff.

Please repeat after me.

The Washington Wizards are not going to trade Otto Porter for salary cap relief and a bunch of guys.

Well, that's usually my line as well. But, actually, this is not as bad a trade as you make it sound -- though that doesn't mean I'd be willing to do it exactly as described.

Happy to take a R2 pick & a TPE for kieff however.

What's happened to Barton, Superfly? A bunch of us liked him a lot in the '12 draft (i.e. over Satoransky) & have followed his career. He's been quite good until this year -- what's the deal with him? Injured? Or...?

Lyles hasn't been much. Hernangomez has been ok but no better.

I really liked Monte Morris in the '17 draft -- what a steal! Get him in this deal? Say, Barton, Monte Morris & 2 R1 picks, & we can talk -- thoughts?

Barton was out for at least 6 weeks I wanna say. He's been injured this year. I also don't know this for sure, but I don't think he is contract year anymore.

Monte Morris is nice. I'd rather swap him out for Michael Porter Jr. Mostly to cut down on Jersey costs

[payitforward]

I don't think Kieff's jersey will fit Monte if that's what you mean!

[pcbothwel]

This discussion is going nowhere.... Trade Morris (8.6M) to Denver, with Denver sending out Lyles (3.6M) to a 3rd team, and the third team sending a TPE or Vet min player to DC.
Done and Done. Under the tax with a pretty decent team that could very well beat Milwaukee, Indiana, or Philly in the 1st round...

For starters, there's no reason for Denver to do this -- costs them $$ & provides no benefit at all.

Actually, the opposite; Lyles is marginally better than Kieff.

But if they don't want him next year, they can simply decline his option.

Lyles and Kieff are more or less about the same caliber of player, though Kieff has been an "average" player a number of times. Lyles was okay last year, but has been unplayable every year but last.
They are about the same caliber of defender & rebounder, but Kieff has shown he can shoot. Lyles is dreadful.

Again, you could certainly argue that its not the best use of funds to make the trade, but saying "No reason" is simply bias against Kieff. He's got 2 weeks to show he is healthy. If so, he's better than Lyles.

Im not sure they could do any better without giving up an asset.

[dangermouse]

How realistic is trading Morris? Maybe if he hadn't been out for so many weeks. I could see a team like Rox wanting a stretch big... cant see a trade working out though.

Ariza on the other hand has been playing pretty damn good. I think there will be a tonne of suitors for his services. 3&D wings fit on any team.

[Dark Faze]

If they trade Otto, I’m picking a new favorite team. Keep Otto, Beal, Sato, Bryant, Brown Jr, Robinson maybe even Dekker. Move EVERYTHING else for whatever you can get. That should be the blueprint. Wall and Morris were cancer for this team. It’s not just about the talent level of the roster, it’s about changing the culture again. The effort level was terrible because of those two.yes, Ariza and Green are rentals, they won’t do much even if they make the playoffs, but making the playoffs and turning the dumpster fire season around can have a positive effect on the culture in DC.

Trading wall in the offseason should be the big move for this team.

Only reason I'd consider trading Porter at this point is that it is looking more and more like it could line up to him opting out for financial reasons. If he could opt out today a desperate team like the Jazz would likely max him. Extending him out to 2024 at 30% of the cap, along with all the little annoyances that people might place into the contract to "win the bid", yikes.

That's not a reason to trade him today though. There's still two years worth of development you want to see at this point.


Edit: Wonder if the Rockets would trade us their first and Brandon Knight for Ariza. It'd be a rental for them sure, but with how close they got last year, that's the kind of rental you like.

[pcbothwel]

If they trade Otto, I’m picking a new favorite team. Keep Otto, Beal, Sato, Bryant, Brown Jr, Robinson maybe even Dekker. Move EVERYTHING else for whatever you can get. That should be the blueprint. Wall and Morris were cancer for this team. It’s not just about the talent level of the roster, it’s about changing the culture again. The effort level was terrible because of those two.yes, Ariza and Green are rentals, they won’t do much even if they make the playoffs, but making the playoffs and turning the dumpster fire season around can have a positive effect on the culture in DC.

Trading wall in the offseason should be the big move for this team.

Only reason I'd consider trading Porter at this point is that it is looking more and more like it could line up to him opting out for financial reasons. If he could opt out today a desperate team like the Jazz would likely max him. Extending him out to 2024 at 30% of the cap, along with all the little annoyances that people might place into the contract to "win the bid", yikes.

That's not a reason to trade him today though. There's still two years worth of development you want to see at this point.


Edit: Wonder if the Rockets would trade us their first and Brandon Knight for Ariza. It'd be a rental for them sure, but with how close they got last year, that's the kind of rental you like.

Wouldnt make that trade. A late 1st for lighting 15M of salary on fire next year is already step enough... but getting the upgrade in Ariza is too much.

[Dark Faze]

Wouldnt make that trade. A late 1st for lighting 15M of salary on fire next year is already step enough... but getting the upgrade in Ariza is too much.

Yikes! Forget I said anything. Didn't realize the contract wasn't expiring this year.

[nate33]

This discussion is going nowhere.... Trade Morris (8.6M) to Denver, with Denver sending out Lyles (3.6M) to a 3rd team, and the third team sending a TPE or Vet min player to DC.
Done and Done. Under the tax with a pretty decent team that could very well beat Milwaukee, Indiana, or Philly in the 1st round...

For starters, there's no reason for Denver to do this -- costs them $$ & provides no benefit at all.

Actually, the opposite; Lyles is marginally better than Kieff.

But if they don't want him next year, they can simply decline his option.

I think Morris' experience and three point shooting will be perceived upgrade over what Lyles is likely to bring in the playoffs. And the Wizards could include enough cash to offset the pro-rated salary differential between the players. Effectively, Utah trades nothing at, except for the opportunity cost of that cap space (that potentially could be used to absorb another player in some other deal in exchange for a pick).

So I think it really boils down to whether or not Utah has better options on the table from other teams. Can they trade their TPE for an expiring contract plus cash to pay for it, and also get an actual pick or a better player than Morris in the process?

[NatP4]

Wouldnt make that trade. A late 1st for lighting 15M of salary on fire next year is already step enough... but getting the upgrade in Ariza is too much.

Yikes! Forget I said anything. Didn't realize the contract wasn't expiring this year.

I think that would be the cost to acquire a 1st though. Ariza is bad now. I’d probably make that trade if we didn’t have to re sign some key pieces this offseason

[pcbothwel]

Wouldnt make that trade. A late 1st for lighting 15M of salary on fire next year is already step enough... but getting the upgrade in Ariza is too much.

Yikes! Forget I said anything. Didn't realize the contract wasn't expiring this year.

I think that would be the cost to acquire a 1st though. Ariza is bad now. I’d probably make that trade if we didn’t have to re sign some key pieces this offseason

Not a chance. Austin Rivers would jump out a window if he woke up with Brandon Knights "Talent" and Knees. The guy is legit one of the worst player in the NBA over the last 3 years...

And Ariza isnt bad. You can not like the direction of the team in moving Oubre (WHO HAS BEEN AWFUL) & Rivers for him, but Ariza has shown to be a positive in every aspect on & off the court EXCEPT shooting. Rebounds, defense, ball movement, hustle, etc... all have been a great addition for this team.

Oh yeah, and his shooting is coming around now too.
In the last 5 games Ariza is averaging 20/7/5 with a TS of 64%, AST% of 19%, and TOV% of 9%

Obviously its not sustainable, but he is clearly returning to his career norms after a slow start.

I fully expect the Suns to let Oubre walk this summer, in which case the Suns CLEARLY botched the trade by not moving Ariza for a 1st.

[Dark Faze]

Oubre has shot the ball well for them. Wouldn't be surprised if they extended him for like 24 over 3.

[nate33]

And Ariza isnt bad. You can not like the direction of the team in moving Oubre (WHO HAS BEEN AWFUL) & Rivers for him, but Ariza has shown to be a positive in every aspect on & off the court EXCEPT shooting. Rebounds, defense, ball movement, hustle, etc... all have been a great addition for this team.

Oh yeah, and his shooting is coming around now too.
In the last 5 games Ariza is averaging 20/7/5 with a TS of 64%, AST% of 19%, and TOV% of 9%

Obviously its not sustainable, but he is clearly returning to his career norms after a slow start.

I hope and pray that the playoffs are out of reach by the Trade Deadline so that EG can move Ariza for value. Somebody is going to pay a pretty handsome price for that kind of production if he can keep it up for another 6 games.

[nate33]

Oubre has shot the ball well for them. Wouldn't be surprised if they extended him for like 24 over 3.

The slight uptick in his shooting since joining Phoenix is offset by a significant increase in turnovers. Overall, his ORtg and WS/48 are actually a bit lower than they were in DC. He's the same player.

Notably, his assist rate is up quite a bit. He was a black hole here, averaging just 1.3 assists per 100 possessions. It's up to 2.6 per 100 possessions in Phoenix, which still isn't great, but not terrible for 3&D player whose primary job is to just catch and shoot.

[gambitx777]

I wonder if the Lakers still have any interest in trading for wall. If that was ever the case lonzo and kcp and wagnor ? No picks not super prime assets ? Hell I'd do it for rondo at this point.rondo kcp and wagnor