The Official 2023 Draft Thread

[Dat2U]

Drafting a guy like Coulibaly scares me. 45% from 3 is good but 59% from the ft line is very concerning. Especially given the fact that all of these athletic all-around wings are going to be 3-D in the NBA. If we want a player of that mold we can easily find one from a team that doesn't want to extend them. The chances are great that if we drafted him, 3 seasons from now we'd be in the same place we were with Deni and Troy Brown Jr. These kind of players are so raw, that it will take more than 3 or 4 years to really get returns positive returns.

Yeah i can't go higher than 12-13 for Coulibaly. I don't quite buy the shot creation just yet or the slow release. Teams will be able to chase him off the line unless he's wide open and his handle shows flashes but I don't know that its ready for NBA comp. He is truly a project. I do like the high end defensive potential though. Has the tools to be a lock down defender. I'd draft him over a Black or Walker but would have him a notch below against far more polished scorers in the draft like Dick, Sensabaugh & George.

[joshuacf]

That would be absolutely horrible.

I'm not as down on Walker as you, but I agree this would be horrible. Walker just isn't enough of a can't miss talent or fit to sacrifice capital in a trade up.

I think Walker's best upside might be Bam Adebayo, but given his far more inefficient scoring than Bam as a prospect, I think it is unlikely that Walker will get there. He's probably more of an Okongwu. I'd live with that type of pick at #8, but I wouldn't be all that excited about it. I certainly wouldn't move up to #6 for the next Okongwu

Walker is 6-6 1/2 in socks and your comparing him to Cs. He's interesting from an effort & IQ perspective but he screams low usage roll player. Folks have praised his ability to read & react as the short roller but realistically teams take away passing lanes if they know your not a legit offensive threat. He doesn't use his size or frame offensively, avoids contact and isn't a reliable shooter. I love the IQ & effort and that generally means a prospect with a safe floor and long career but the ceiling does not appear particularly high to me.

Walker's height isn't great but he makes up for it in other areas. He had the 4th highest standing vertical and the 10th-highest max vertical at the combine. He also has a great wingspan at 7-2 1/2. He can shoot, has great strength, and gives good effort as you mentioned.

He makes more sense for Detroit, Orlando, or Dallas to me. Teams that already have their stars but need productive pieces around those stars.

[payitforward]

Another thought on the pick swap idea... after reading Kevin Broom's wrap-up on Deni's season, I'm starting to feel really pessimistic about his future with us. Maybe we can entice a team to help us reset the clock on him by trading him for a player on a rookie contract with more time remaining? And as incentive we offer a pick swap from 8.

Two players I would love to get out of this:
Jaylen Williams or Dyson Daniels.

So would OKC trade Williams for Deni and the 8/12 swap?
Would NO trade Dyson for Deni and the 8/14 swap?

These are real interesting ideas. I'd like them a lot if we ended up with Gradey Dick or Bilal Coulibaly at #12.

Can we trade players for players right now? I.e. before the draft?

In any case, I have trouble seeing a reason for either OKC or NO to do the deals described above -- I know I wouldn't.

[FAH1223]

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[NatP4]

Wemby
Ausar
Coulibaly
Amen
Miller

I’d probably take him as high as 3. Kid is a superstar. Mix of Kawhi/Giannis.

[Dat2U]

I find the Giannis comparisons to Bilal just absolutely ridiculous. Outside both being foreign, brown skinned and excellent athletes, they have nothing in common! Bilal 'might' develop secondary creation skills, Giannis was a ball dominant 6-9 PG coming out. How are they comparable?

[TGW]

Does anyone have measurement for coulibaly? I thought YODA used anthro numbers to generate a score.

[nate33]

Does anyone have measurement for coulibaly? I thought YODA used anthro numbers to generate a score.

The Ringer has him at 6-7 with a 7-3 wingspan.

[daSwami]

Welp. My two second-round faves (Edey and Beekman) are headed back to school, guess I'll have to pin my hopes on Terq, GG, or Isiah Wong being available at 42 and 59.

[nate33]

That would be absolutely horrible.

I'm not as down on Walker as you, but I agree this would be horrible. Walker just isn't enough of a can't miss talent or fit to sacrifice capital in a trade up.

I think Walker's best upside might be Bam Adebayo, but given his far more inefficient scoring than Bam as a prospect, I think it is unlikely that Walker will get there. He's probably more of an Okongwu. I'd live with that type of pick at #8, but I wouldn't be all that excited about it. I certainly wouldn't move up to #6 for the next Okongwu

Walker is 6-6 1/2 in socks and your comparing him to Cs. He's interesting from an effort & IQ perspective but he screams low usage roll player. Folks have praised his ability to read & react as the short roller but realistically teams take away passing lanes if they know your not a legit offensive threat. He doesn't use his size or frame offensively, avoids contact and isn't a reliable shooter. I love the IQ & effort and that generally means a prospect with a safe floor and long career but the ceiling does not appear particularly high to me.

Good point about his height. He has crazy long arms though.

Anyhow, I'm basically in agreement with your lukewarm assessment of Walker. Ultimately, he's a little too small to play center, and I think he is a little too slow-footed to play forward. The hope is that he is the next Draymond, but every "next Draymond" since Draymond has not panned out. Draymond Green is an absolute savant on defense. Few guys in the history of the league grasp the mental aspects of defense as well as Draymond.

[NatP4]

I find the Giannis comparisons to Bilal just absolutely ridiculous. Outside both being foreign, brown skinned and excellent athletes, they have nothing in common! Bilal 'might' develop secondary creation skills, Giannis was a ball dominant 6-9 PG coming out. How are they comparable?

Dude, you compared Coulibaly to Thabo Sefolosha a couple weeks ago and thought we was a late 1st level talent. Now people are talking about him as a top 5 candidate.

Not sure what you are talking about with Giannis. In his draft year, he had a grand total of 36 assists in 26 games with 42 turnovers. He was just an athlete with a ton of upside.

[doclinkin]

I'm not as down on Walker as you, but I agree this would be horrible. Walker just isn't enough of a can't miss talent or fit to sacrifice capital in a trade up.

I think Walker's best upside might be Bam Adebayo, but given his far more inefficient scoring than Bam as a prospect, I think it is unlikely that Walker will get there. He's probably more of an Okongwu. I'd live with that type of pick at #8, but I wouldn't be all that excited about it. I certainly wouldn't move up to #6 for the next Okongwu

Walker is 6-6 1/2 in socks and your comparing him to Cs. He's interesting from an effort & IQ perspective but he screams low usage roll player. Folks have praised his ability to read & react as the short roller but realistically teams take away passing lanes if they know your not a legit offensive threat. He doesn't use his size or frame offensively, avoids contact and isn't a reliable shooter. I love the IQ & effort and that generally means a prospect with a safe floor and long career but the ceiling does not appear particularly high to me.

Good point about his height. He has crazy long arms though.

Anyhow, I'm basically in agreement with your lukewarm assessment of Walker. Ultimately, he's a little too small to play center, and I think he is a little too slow-footed to play forward. The hope is that he is the next Draymond, but every "next Draymond" since Draymond has not panned out. Draymond Green is an absolute savant on defense. Few guys in the history of the league grasp the mental aspects of defense as well as Draymond.

Slow footed? He was faster in both lane agility and 3/4 sprint than most of the guards at the combine. Despite at 250lbs being the combine's 2nd heaviest forward (6th heaviest weight, behind 4 centers).

Long armed quick players with a low center of gravity are commonly strong defenders. Front court players who post steals and assists also tend to have defense that translates at the next level.

Mostly I'm curious about his development. His role in college was dialed back from the game he showed in highschool. At IMG academy as a freshman he was noted for his complete game, inside finishing, heads-up passing, a nice handle for his size bringing the ball up the court or initiating off a rebound with a pass ahead. By his senior year he had added a mid-range game, which to be fair was more of an assortment of leaning fadeaway jumpers than an aggressive attack towards the lane. But still, it shows him in the workshop.

Then in Houston he added to his range and showed a developing outside shot as well.

A high energy player who loves the game and is a gym rat tends to see significant development over their career. The guy you see now is not the final product. Watch his IMG footage and you see him growing. I'd be concerned about Zion syndrome: a big boy jumping that high and making sharp cuts puts a ton of torque and shear force on his lower joints. But get him the right training regimen and his upside looks to me higher than he's getting credit for. Okay you can say Draymond is an outlier due to his intelligence. But I put Walker as a more muscular Scottie Barnes. Able to defend outside and in, with heads up full court awareness of the moment. Call that a role-player, fine, on offense, but on defense he will be involved in every play. At his apex I see him as a lynchpin defender on a championship team. Switchable small to big, whatever is needed.

Check out the precocious reads he was making as a Freshman at IMG:

Watch on YouTube

Then check his game as a senior:

Watch on YouTube

[nate33]

Walker is 6-6 1/2 in socks and your comparing him to Cs. He's interesting from an effort & IQ perspective but he screams low usage roll player. Folks have praised his ability to read & react as the short roller but realistically teams take away passing lanes if they know your not a legit offensive threat. He doesn't use his size or frame offensively, avoids contact and isn't a reliable shooter. I love the IQ & effort and that generally means a prospect with a safe floor and long career but the ceiling does not appear particularly high to me.

Good point about his height. He has crazy long arms though.

Anyhow, I'm basically in agreement with your lukewarm assessment of Walker. Ultimately, he's a little too small to play center, and I think he is a little too slow-footed to play forward. The hope is that he is the next Draymond, but every "next Draymond" since Draymond has not panned out. Draymond Green is an absolute savant on defense. Few guys in the history of the league grasp the mental aspects of defense as well as Draymond.

Slow footed? He was faster in both lane agility and 3/4 sprint than most of the guards at the combine. Despite being the combine's 2nd heaviest forward (6th heaviest weight, behind 4 centers).

Long armed quick players with a low center of gravity are commonly strong defenders. Front court players who post steals and assists also tend to have defense that translates at the next level.

Mostly I'm curious about his development. His role in college was dialed back from the game he showed in highschool. At IMG academy as a freshman he was noted for his complete game, inside finishing, heads-up passing, a nice handle for his size bringing the ball up the court or initiating off a rebound with a pass ahead. By his senior year he had added a mid-range game, which to be fair was more of a leaning fadeaway jumper than an aggressive attack towards the lane.

Still, at Houston he showed a developing outside shot as well. That was new from what I understand compared to his high school game.

A high energy player who loves the game and is a gym rat tends to see significant development over their career. The guy you see now is not the final product. Watch his IMG footage and you see him growing. I'd be concerned about Zion syndrome: a big boy jumping that high and making sharp cuts puts a ton of torque and shear force on his lower joints. But get him the right training regimen and his upside looks to me higher than he's getting credit for. Okay you can say Draymond is an outlier due to his intelligence. But I put Walker as a more muscular Scottie Barnes. Able to defend outside and in, with heads up full court awareness of the moment. Call that a role-player. Okay, but at his apex I see him as a lynchpin defender on a championship team. Switchable small to big, whatever is needed.

Good points, Doc. I thought he looked a little heavy-footed in the video clips I watched from him, but maybe I'm being deceived by his size. You are right that his combine tests are pretty impressive. Anytime a big has a sub 11 lane agility, I'm intrigued. His was 10.89. And his 34.5 inch standing vertical is nuts for a guy who is a slightly doughy 250. Well, not "doughy", but he could probably lose a couple of pounds by trimming his body fat a bit more.

I may need to reconsider my first take on him.

[Dat2U]

I find the Giannis comparisons to Bilal just absolutely ridiculous. Outside both being foreign, brown skinned and excellent athletes, they have nothing in common! Bilal 'might' develop secondary creation skills, Giannis was a ball dominant 6-9 PG coming out. How are they comparable?

Dude, you compared Coulibaly to Thabo Sefolosha a couple weeks ago and thought we was a late 1st level talent. Now people are talking about him as a top 5 candidate.

Not sure what you are talking about with Giannis. In his draft year, he had a grand total of 36 assists in 26 games with 42 turnovers. He was just an athlete with a ton of upside.

WTF are you talking about? You never revisit prospects a 2nd/3rd time during the process? That's weird. A couple of weeks ago he looked like Thabo. Nearly everyone said just in the last weeks he's shown real growth. Apparently I can't see that and acknowledge it either? I don't think he's Kawhi/Giannis - i.e. a future top 5 player.

And if you watched Giannis tape from his predraft days you knew he did one thing and it insanely well. Get to the rim off the bounce at 6-9, Bilal is not similar in anyway to that.

[gambitx777]

I find the Giannis comparisons to Bilal just absolutely ridiculous. Outside both being foreign, brown skinned and excellent athletes, they have nothing in common! Bilal 'might' develop secondary creation skills, Giannis was a ball dominant 6-9 PG coming out. How are they comparable?

Dude, you compared Coulibaly to Thabo Sefolosha a couple weeks ago and thought we was a late 1st level talent. Now people are talking about him as a top 5 candidate.

Not sure what you are talking about with Giannis. In his draft year, he had a grand total of 36 assists in 26 games with 42 turnovers. He was just an athlete with a ton of upside.

The gianis stuff is silly personally I think he's more of a Chris Middleton Jimmy Butler type game wise and physically. But a lot of what makes those guys them is heart and inside junk and you won't know that until you know it.

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[doclinkin]

Good points, Doc. I thought he looked a little heavy-footed in the video clips I watched from him, but maybe I'm being deceived by his size. You are right that his combine tests are pretty impressive. Anytime a big has a sub 11 lane agility, I'm intrigued. His was 10.89. And his 34.5 inch standing vertical is nuts for a guy who is a slightly doughy 250. Well, not "doughy", but he could probably lose a couple of pounds by trimming his body fat a bit more.

I may need to reconsider my first take on him.

If we are still building around KP, I think Walker is a good defensive adjunct to what KP does well. Porzingis is noted as one of the better defenders in the paint. His off ball defense and exterior switchability are what is in question. Walker covers a ton of ground, his lateral movement defending against penetration and his weakside defense are a particular strength of his game. You can play KP in drop coverage and rely on Walker to fill in many of the gaps. He's clever on defense and vocal as well. You watch him bait quick footed players to think they have blown past him, while he trails behind them and absolutely erases their shot when they rise thinking he is out of the play. HIs long arms let him defend in a stealth role. You think he is nowhere near the play and his speed and stretch eat up all the space you thought you had. He also doesn't need to wind up to jump, so he is less vulnerable to pump fakes. His court vision helps him on his timing on blocks equally to his playmaking at the other end.

To my way of thinking, all the things we like about Deni, you can find in Walker. Except he is stronger, more athletic, a better finisher on the interior, more vocal, showing leadership on court, and has already shown NBA range on his outside shot. Yeah he would benefit with a shooting coach so that his jumper is repeatable, but he clearly loves the game. His IMG coaches all express how impressed they are at his relentless work ethic. Recovering from injury and fighting back to prime form. Developing his complete game.

He still has a ways to go. Areas that he should excel that he hasn't touched yet. He hasn't even really started to learn how to set a pick. Picture him in a screen heavy offense the way Beal likes best. Or springing Porzingis behind a pick. He was playing PG as a sophomore. The league is looking for tall passers and ballhandlers nowadays. The era of the undersized combo guard is closing. In the next part of the arms race you want skilled passers with size and interior finishers. Playably switchable bigs. Walker checks a lot of those boxes.

[gambitx777]

I think I hurt some feelings in the general board when I compared scoot for Raymond Felton lol and said he's gonna be Raymond Felton plus

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[FAH1223]

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[NatP4]

I find the Giannis comparisons to Bilal just absolutely ridiculous. Outside both being foreign, brown skinned and excellent athletes, they have nothing in common! Bilal 'might' develop secondary creation skills, Giannis was a ball dominant 6-9 PG coming out. How are they comparable?

Dude, you compared Coulibaly to Thabo Sefolosha a couple weeks ago and thought we was a late 1st level talent. Now people are talking about him as a top 5 candidate.

Not sure what you are talking about with Giannis. In his draft year, he had a grand total of 36 assists in 26 games with 42 turnovers. He was just an athlete with a ton of upside.

The gianis stuff is silly personally I think he's more of a Chris Middleton Jimmy Butler type game wise and physically. But a lot of what makes those guys them is heart and inside junk and you won't know that until you know it.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, it’s not really a great play style comparison. Coulibaly just reminds me of how Giannis was this super young high upside physical freak international prospect flying way under the radar during his draft year. He’s got the same superstar upside.

Coulibaly is probably more similar to a Kawhi. Gets tons of steals and blocks and switches 1-5. Elite defensive tools. Textbook wing size and athletic ability. High level efficiency, dominant in transition. Prodigy, excelling at 18 in a good pro league.

He might even be rising out of our range at 8. No reason for a team to take someone like Whitmore/Hendricks/Walker over this guy.

[daSwami]

I think I hurt some feelings in the general board when I compared scoot for Raymond Felton lol and said he's gonna be Raymond Felton plus

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Why are you bringing this up here?